Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[Trini]

Spoiler-y teases from the premiere in this article: http://www.screenspy.com/articles/exclusive-scoop-on-the-flash-season-4-premiere/

Quote

We’ve seen the premiere episode a little early, thanks to our friends at the CW, and have a number of teasers to share with you. As always, we avoid outright spoilers and plot point reveals that would ruin your enjoyment of the live event. That said, we urge you to proceed with caution anyway. You know the way these things are. ...

[RedVitC]

Preview/review of the first 2 eps (there's a little bit more at the source):

Quote

 

Gustin, as always, is a blast in the role, especially now that he gets to have so much more fun onscreen. Viewers who’ve harped on the prevalence of brow-furrowed, worrisome Barry can rest easy at last. In addition, Candice Patton continues to prove why Iris is such a strong leading lady, reaffirming Barry and Iris’s status as one of the best superhero TV couples ever. Much of the series has focused on their love story, and the first two episodes of season 4 really hinge on it as the couple readjusts to this reborn Barry and the new dynamics within S.T.A.R. Labs.

The show’s zippy sense of humor returns intact for season 4, embodied most of all by Cisco (Carlos Valdes), who remains a standout character. Not only does Cisco play an instrumental role in Barry’s return, but he gets more to do than ever before, earning a subplot or two that have nothing to do with his scientific mind or his Vibe alter-ego.

Likewise, Caitlin (Danielle Panabaker) is back after her Killer Frost plotline turned a corner last season. At this point, it’s unclear exactly where the show hopes to take that story in season 4, though it is apparent that we haven’t seen the last of it. Elsewhere in the cast, Jesse L. Martin and Keiynan Lonsdale are doing what they do best, doling out fatherly advice and playing the jokester hero, respectively. Unfortunately, neither of them has much to do in these first two episodes. Alas, no sign of Tom Cavanagh as Harry or any other version of Harrison Wells just yet.

However, we do meet season 4’s new Big Bad, albeit in the briefest of ways. Last year, the show dropped a casual mention of Clifford DeVoe aka The Thinker, and Neil Sandilands makes an appearance as the character in what is sure to be a season-long arc. Exactly what his agenda is will likely unfold gradually over the next several episodes, but the fact that he isn’t a speedster both gives the storyline a freshness lacking in the past and also a challenge it must rise to overcome. DeVoe’s vague scenes so far feel a bit jarring since we have little clue as to what’s going on, though there’s reason to trust that the classic supervillain will pose as intriguingly cerebral threat to Central City and its resident hero.

On the whole, The Flash season 4 is off to a terrific start. Setting aside its past self-seriousness (and even taking light jabs at it along the way), the show appears to have recalibrated into something brighter, more fun and far more in line with the source material. Gustin and company are certainly game for a change of pace, and The Flash has deftly dodged just about any indication that the series would become stale in season 4.

Team Flash is as charming as ever, leaving fans with 20-odd hours of adventures to look forward to this year. In many ways, The Flash has always been the crown jewel of the Arrowverse, blending the optimism of Supergirl with the mystery of Arrow. After so much of the latter, season 4’s decision to lean more on the former will come as a relief to longtime fans who may have wondered where their Barry went. We’re happy to report that he’s back and apparently here to stay.

Also this:

Quote

Just like its title hero, The Flash season 4 leaves the show feeling refreshed and ready to return to what made fans fall for it in the first place.

[RedVitC]

Quite some stuff in the Screenspy article. This caught my attention in particular:

Quote

'Listen closely to what Barry is saying. Is it gibberish, or are those all lines we’ve heard him an others speak in previous episoes, along with a couple we haven’t heard yet? Could Barry be experiencing the past, present and future all at the same time? And if so, is his observation “We’re going to need more diapers” a hint at a WestAllen baby?'

Don Allen and Dawn Allen hint?

[RedVitC]

EW interviews (there's some more at the source)

Quote

The team is, of course, able to get him back. But when Barry does return, he’s scrambled, forcing everyone to rally around him. “Barry comes back from the Speed Force, and he’s a madman,” Valdes says. “He’s spouting all these crazy, nonsense words and dialogue that just doesn’t make any sense, and it’s all chopped up from different semblances of conversations. As far as the team’s skill set is concerned, there’s nothing that they can do about this, so episode 1 is basically just about figuring out how to get the Barry that they know and love back. They get him in the physical form, but he’s not the same.”

 

 

Quote

 

Once Barry is back in action, Gustin stresses that despite small hurdles ahead — like Barry and Iris landing in couples therapy — the duo are really a solid couple this season, which is not surprising considering the upcoming four-way crossover will feature their nuptials. “We do fall right back into wedding planning,” Gustin says. “It’s all good in Barry and Iris land right now. He feels confident in moving forward with the wedding. It’s been fun for me just because it’s back to the optimistic guy that we all got to know Barry as, that he lost a little bit the last couple years.”

That’s all part and parcel of the show leaning back toward its season 1 roots in tone. “The producers and writers are pretty hands-on this season about changing the tone of the show and getting back to a lot of the humor that we had in season 1,” Patton says. “I’ll even venture to say that there’s way more than even season 1, just in terms of the lightheartedness and jokes and funny scenarios that happen on the show. It’s really fun. I know me and Grant have had a couple of those scenes where it’s just been him and I, and we’ve both gotten to really put our comedy chops on the line. I’ve spent three seasons crying so much, and I haven’t really gotten to do a lot of that lighthearted stuff, so it’s really fun. We’re trying to go back to this more lighthearted comic-book-y version of The Flash.”

 

 

 

Quote

While it’s quickly back to business as usual, Barry’s return does raise a number of questions, namely what this means for Wally (Keiynan Lonsdale), who has taken up the mantle of the Flash in his absence. Cisco also stepped up while Barry was gone, which means seeing more of Vibe in the field this season. “Along with that field experience comes a natural growth of power,” Valdes teases. “Much in the same way that Barry got more comfortable with his powers at the beginning of the show and during season 1, there’s definitely some growth in that respect — but honestly, most of Cisco’s growth is more personal than it is with regards to his powers.”

 

Quote

 

Along those lines, the premiere is not just about getting Barry back from the Speed Force. There’s also another wayward member of the team who has been MIA this summer: Caitlin Snow (Danielle Panabaker). “Cisco feels the loss of his best friend, and that’s not just accounting for Barry, it’s accounting for Caitlin as well,” Valdes says. “As far as the audience knows, Caitlin is nowhere to be found. However, there might be some surprises with regards to what Caitlin’s doing with her life when we pick up in season 4.”

Though details on Caitlin’s journey in season 4 have been scarce, Panabaker teases that we’ll see a much more withdrawn version of the character. “At the top of season 4, Caitlin has been apart from Team Flash for a good six months, she’s taken a different job, and she’s really focusing on other things when Cisco comes to try and recruit her to bring her back to Team Flash,” Panabaker says. “Caitlin is a little bit more reserved, at least at the top of the season. It’s not the Caitlin we’ve seen in past seasons. At this point, obviously she’s been through some traumatic things, particularly the loss of her husband, but this one’s different; this one has affected her in a very specific way, and in a much more internal way.”

 

[RedVitC]

Another screener reaction:

[Trini]

I love the 'Tornado Twins' teases, even though I doubt they'd ever have babies on the show.

[SodaforceMaster]

God, I hope Barry doesn’t get so distraught he just pusses out and quits again this season. Personally, in real life I’ve been through horrific crap and just don’t up and give up that hard.

[Trini]

Bringing over some new-ish info from the TVGuide interview with Helbing:

Quote

How will the team react to Barry's return after saving Central City without him for 6 months?

Helbing: When he comes out, he just wants to be The Flash again, so he's happy to go take down the villains or go save the day by himself. He's very eager to do that. But Wally (Keiynan Lonsdale) is still part of the team, and Iris is in charge, and Vibe (Carlos Valdes) has been going out. They've been working as this unit without him for six months. So when somebody's gone and they come and they step into the leadership role, there's some bumps along the way and that's what happens. It's not a smooth transition, really, for anybody. So Barry starts to realize his decisions and how they're starting to affect the team. A lot of that plays out with his relationship with Iris.

Quote

How does Killer Frost (Danielle Panabaker), who's also still Caitlin, factor into this season?

Helbing: Caitlin had to try to figure out who she was exactly. Was she Killer Frost? Was she Caitlin Snow? She kind of went on her own journey -- kind of like Barry went on his when he went into the Speed Force -- figuring out how to deal with this power that she has and that she doesn't really want to have. So when she comes back, she's definitely not the goody-two-shoes Caitlin that you've known and loved for three years. She's got a little bit more edge to her, I would say. And slowly you start to realize why exactly she's changed a little bit.

Quote

We're also going to see Gypsy (Jessica Camacho) again, so what brings her back around? What's her relationship with Cisco looking like?

Helbing: Those two have steadily been dating for that six months and their relationship is blossoming, you could say. Like any relationship, it has its ups and downs and Cisco, in an early episode, kind of does something that rubs Gypsy the wrong way, which is kind of fun. And in an episode in the near future, you get to meet Gypsy's father, Breacher. That whole storyline is one of my favorites so far this season. It's hilarious.

Quote

Poor H.R. (Tom Cavanaugh) is no more, so does this mean we get Harry back full time?

Helbing: Harry comes back, and there's a reason why he shows up. [There's a reason] why he's come back and why he'll be sticking around. He's a little gruff, so there's a lot of growth for him personality-wise, but it's Tom Cavanaugh, and seeing him play as many different versions of Wells is what we love. So there's a nice array of different Wellses you get to meet this year.

Quote

And what can you tease about the Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) crossover in Episode 5?

Helbing: She comes for a bachelorette party, and Iris and Felicity and Caitlin and Cecile have a night out on the town that does not go as most bachelorette parties go. They sort of get themselves in some interesting situations that they need to fight their way out of.

[Trini]

On 10/7/2017 at 10:21 PM, ruby24 said:

Given how long KL has been gone since this episode, I'm guessing they're going to have Wally move to that earth to be with Jesse? 

Going back to this for a second; I kinda hope they don't do this, because that means Wally would be dropping out of school -- even though the writers have forgotten that detail.

[RedVitC]

And some more:

 

 

 

 

 

Wally makes an appearance in the new Legends of Tomorrow trailer. So I'm guessing that clip of him and Nate talking in that other trailer from a while back is from one of their episodes.

[Trini]

Some new tidbits from the latest Helbing interviews:

Quote

What about his powers? Have they been altered by the Speed Force?

All I will say is you’ll see a new power at some point this season. It’s pretty cool.

Quote

Wally has an interesting journey. When Barry was gone, he stepped up. He became the resident Flash in Central City. When Barry returns, it’s like, “Wait a second, man. I was driving the ship for six months. I was doing a great job,” and now the Flash is back. There’s a lot of figuring out that new dynamic between the two.

Quote

I’ll say we don’t do the Red Wedding — but I don’t think the wedding necessarily plays out the way Iris West, nor Barry Allen, dreamt it would go.

Quote

Are there any new villains from The Flash’s comic book canon viewers can expect to see?

You get to see Kilg%re show up, which is a lot of fun, as well as Amunet Black, played by Katee Sackhoff. You get to see Hazard, which is one of the lightest episodes, in some regards, that we’ve done – and the most fun power that a villain has had.

Quote

What is the show’s take on the Elongated Man, Ralph Dibny?

Like in the comic books, he’s a private investigator. Ralph has detective skills that rival Batman’s. We tackle his abilities, which are going to be fun to do in live-action. We’re altering his backstory a little bit. He and Barry have this shared, checkered past. The two of them don’t get along from the onset.

Dibney has 'a shared past' with Barry? Interesting...

I think Kilgore/Kilg%re is the unnamed meta in the description for 4.02.
 

Quote

We know that the four-way crossover between Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl and Legends of Tomorrow will include the long-awaited WestAllen wedding. What can you say to tease Team Flash’s role and the wedding in that crossover, and whether there are any particularly fun moments involving The Flash cast that most stand out for you?

HELBING: I don’t know if there is any one moment. We’re telling a four-hour movie. In the past, an Arrow episode felt like an Arrow episode, a Flash episode felt like a Flash episode, and Legends felt like Legends. With this cross-over, we’re telling it like a collective story. It’s so fun to see them all together, working together and being together for four hours. While we’re progressing the narrative on all four shows, it’s really this amazing throughline for everybody. I don’t think I have a favorite moment. I haven’t watched all of the dailies. We’re still shooting it. The stuff I’ve seen is amazing. Every year, we have to outdo ourselves and it’s a huge challenge, but I think that we did, this year.

Quote

HELBING: Barry doesn’t have to just do work with Iris. He has to do work with everybody, and Wally is no exception. When you are the speedster in town and you’re still Kid Flash, but you want to be The Flash, and then The Flash returns, it’s an interesting dynamic. This guy taught him. He was his mentor, in a lot of ways. So, to have your mentor return and want to lead the ship again, Wally is gonna bristle a little bit.

Quote

What can you say to tease the Cisco-Gypsy-Breacher dynamic, and what does Danny Trejo bring to that, just simply by being Danny Trejo?

HELBING: I’ve gotta be honest, it was crazy being on set with him. I’ve been such a fan, for so long. There’s one classic shot with him, that I can’t get into, but that you’ll know when you see it because it’s classic Danny Trejo. His comic chops are so great. He’s Gypsy’s father, and Cisco and Gypsy’s relationship has blossomed. They’ve been dating for eight months now, but I don’t think he enjoys anybody dating his daughter, much less Cisco. That creates a little bit of tension between the two. Their storyline in Episode 4 may be one of my favorite things that we’ve ever done on the show.

Quote

What makes The Thinker a different kind of villain than we’ve seen on The Flash, and what does he want?

HELBING: I can’t really get into what he wants yet, but this guy is the smartest man in the world. He’s not a speedster. He can’t compete with Barry, physically. It’s the fastest man alive vs. the fastest mind alive, so he can out-think anybody. He knows where people are gonna be, he knows how they’re gonna react, and he knows what scenarios he can put them in to create other scenarios that he needs. It’s not like he can see the future, but he has thought through every outcome. He is not only the man who built the chess board, but he built the chess pieces, and then he puts them on the board where he wants them, so he can play the moves when he needs to. It’s a lot of fun, psychologically, in how that washes over the team.

Quote

Iris has taken on a leadership role in Team Flash. Is this her just helping to pick up the slack with Barry gone, or has she found her calling leading and coordinating the team?

I think both. On top of Barry being gone, Caitlin is gone. With Kid Flash and Vibe as the resident super heroes, they need someone back in the cortex, and it was the perfect opportunity for Iris to come in and become team leader and drive the ship. It also allowed her to sort of deal with Barry not being there.

[XC-TF]

New poster here!

I've really enjoyed all 3 seasons of the Flash.  Really really great work.  I was looking forward to season 4 a ton then 4.01 happened.

Hated 4.01.  It felt like such a retread, basically showing us that nothing really matters, there are no stakes. Hell, Iris gets herself captured because she knows nothing bad will happen to her.  

Besides the cringe-worthy writing, I just can't get into the lack of commitment from the writers.  COMMIT to Caitlin being Killer Frost.  COMMIT to Berry being stuck in the Speed Force for more than 1 episode.  It's really frustrating.

[johntfs]

30 minutes ago, XC-TF said:

Hated 4.01.  It felt like such a retread, basically showing us that nothing really matters, there are no stakes. Hell, Iris gets herself captured because she knows nothing bad will happen to her.  

Besides the cringe-worthy writing, I just can't get into the lack of commitment from the writers.  COMMIT to Caitlin being Killer Frost.  COMMIT to Berry being stuck in the Speed Force for more than 1 episode.  It's really frustrating.

Iris got herself captured because she recognized that was the only fast way to bitch-slap Barry back to sanity.  Or at least functionality.

Nobody was ever going to COMMIT to having The Flash be absent for an extended period of onscreen time on a show called The Flash.  If you check out the IMDB page for The Flash, you'll notice that the three stars listed towards the top are Grant Gustin, Candice Patton and Danielle Panabaker in that order.  So no, the writers were never going to COMMIT to having two of their main three stars absent from the show for, what, how long would have satisfied you?  Two?  Three?  Eight episodes?

In a more ensemble-based show like Legends of Tomorrow, it's more likely for them to have certain characters absent for some shows.  Last season Arthur Darville appeared in the season premiere and was then absent from the show for the next six episodes, reappearing again only at the very end of "The Chicago Way." 

Edited October 11, 2017 by johntfs

[RedVitC]

45 minutes ago, XC-TF said:

New poster here!

I've really enjoyed all 3 seasons of the Flash.  Really really great work.  I was looking forward to season 4 a ton then 4.01 happened.

Hated 4.01.  It felt like such a retread, basically showing us that nothing really matters, there are no stakes. Hell, Iris gets herself captured because she knows nothing bad will happen to her.  

Besides the cringe-worthy writing, I just can't get into the lack of commitment from the writers.  COMMIT to Caitlin being Killer Frost.  COMMIT to Berry being stuck in the Speed Force for more than 1 episode.  It's really frustrating.

Hi! Welcome to the board :)

I don't really agree on the main point, I still feel the stakes and Iris getting captured was a leap of faith for her. So the point was she had to believe that Barry would come for her. But I can understand some of your frustration in that the writers seem to want to return to the status quo of Team Flash as fast as possible as we've seen in the season premieres of both season 2, 3 and 4 (but honestly that's an Arrowverse thing). There are a number of ways I could have seen them keep Barry in the Speed Force and still include Barry by showing what he was going through in the Speed Force. Show him come face to face with past, present and future in the actual Speed Force etc. But since I really enjoyed the episode I can live with it.

The way they handled the season one cliffhanger was a bigger issue for me to be honest. In a quick flashback.

[johntfs]

3 minutes ago, RedVitC said:

The way they handled the season one cliffhanger was a bigger issue for me to be honest. In a quick flashback.

Honestly, I kind of liked that.  The resolution wasn't the important part (either the thing gets resolved or Central City/the world disappears into a black hole).  The aftereffects with Ronnie's death happening right after Eddie's and the damage done from that were the bigger things.

[Trini]

From Matt's Inside Line:

Quote

The next episode doesn’t shed any light on what exactly Caitlin’s obligation is to Norvok and their mutual “boss” Amunet, though we do see her struggle not to “Frost out” at an extremely inopportune moment. (As for the chill witnessed between Caitlin and Iris in the premiere, Danielle Panabaker recently told us the ladies understandably have “a lot of feelings” about what happened during Savitar’s reign of terror, “but hopefully there’s some healing that can be had as well.”

Quote

Bonus scoop: I just need to say that the next Flash episode is so flippin’ funny, very much in keeping with the promise of a lighter Season 4 and serving up one of its most hysterical sight gags ever. (Let’s just say that Barry’s worst foe in the aforementioned moment may be the ever-industrious Cisco.)

[Trini]

Episode 4.04 description:

Quote

"Elongated Journey Into Night" - (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, L) (HDTV)

TOM CAVANAGH DIRECTS; DANNY TREJO GUEST STARS AS BREACHER -

Cisco (Carlos Valdes) is shocked when Gypsy's (guest star Jessica Camacho) father, Breacher (guest star Danny Trejo), shows up on Earth-1. Breacher takes an immediate disliking to Cisco and decides to hunt him. Meanwhile, Barry (Grant Gustin) runs into his old nemesis, Ralph Dibny (guest star Hartley Sawyer).

Tom Cavanagh directed the episode written by Sterling Gates & Thomas Pound (#404). Original airdate 10/31/2017.

--------------

More new writers; Article about Sterling who has also written other things for DC.

[Trini]

Quote

Meanwhile, Barry runs into his old nemesis, Ralph Dibny.

Okay - I'd be more excited about a nemesis for Barry (not Flash) if a) they hadn't already done this just last season, and b) we saw how that turned out; only lasting half the season and then Julian joined the team. Will this be at all different? Plus, while I'm not familiar with this new guy, I doubt he's as good as Felton.

Edited October 16, 2017 by Trini
clarity

[Trini]

Not sure if this is a new quote from Helbing; but it indicates that couples counseling may come up again in the season:

Quote

As for those teases of Barry and Iris (Candice Patton) in couples therapy, that's not just a one-and-done joke. The engaged couple will start seeing a therapist in next week's episode to discuss all their serious relationship issues, and according to executive producer Todd Helbing, that is a story that "we certainly go back to more than once." But why do Barry and Iris even need therapy? "Barry left and six months passes by," Helbing tells THR. "You sent out the save-the-date cards and you're about to get married and then your fiance is gone, so she had a lot of explaining to do to people about why this wasn't happening anymore. So when he comes back, how do you just jump back into a relationship with somebody like that when they were gone? There's a learning curve and there's a lot of work that has to be done for them to get back on track and get back to the place they were at before he left. Couples therapy felt like the perfect place for them to work on that stuff." Expect those scenes to become a series highlight.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/dc-tv-watch-flash-couples-therapy-1047894

[ruby24]

I wonder if he means therapy comes up again, or just general relationship issues? 

[RedVitC]

The Flash: 4 Reasons Not to Miss This Week's Funny/Serious/Curious Episode

Quote

The Flash this Tuesday (The CW, 8/7c) turns in one of its funniest episodes, certainly in a long while. But it has even more going for it than that. Here’s a non-spoilery overview:

Quote

 

IT’S NIFTY
Yes, Barry got a new suit in the Season 4 premiere. But Cisco apparently has been itching to upgrade it even further, and some of the modifications unveiled in “Mixed Signals” are pretty damn cool (if occasionally problematic). The Meta of the Week meanwhile wields a quite formidable power, enough so that it makes any fellow parents out there forget he’s played by the goofy principal from A.N.T. Farm (aka Dominic Burgess of FEUD). They also give this “Kilgore” an interestingly detailed backstory — and it’s one that raises larger Season 4 questions moving forward.

IT GETS SERIOUS
As has been well previewed, Barry and Iris “do the work” when the former’s (conspicuous?) gung-ho, go-getter attitude since returning from the Speed Force prompts Iris to book them some time with a couples counselor (played by Angie‘s Donna Pescow). There, in another moving performance by Candice Patton, Iris eventually bursts forth with what specifically devastated her about her fiance’s disappearing act a half-year ago. And you’ll likely nod along in agreement.

IT GETS EMOTIONAL
I admittedly groaned at first when Gypsy’s arrival for a scheduled date with Cisco kept getting waylaid by his work. But stick with this B-story, because her reason for the rendezvous is surprising, leading to some really nice, subtle work by Carlos Valdes and guest star Jessica Camacho.

DID I MENTION IT’S FUNNY…?
As teased in my Inside Line column, there’s a sight gag that is among the series’ very best. (A bit of it is spoiled in a promo that’s out there, but there is so much more to that larger, hilarious sequence.) And as overly-effervescent as Barry’s new demeanor is, it does set the stage for some of his and Cisco’s best, rat-a-tat-tat banter sessions. (If you’re by chance a Silicon Valley fan, you’ll learn that they very much are, too.) Lastly, there’s a fleeting Arrow crossover. Of sorts.

 

 I wonder what the Arrow crossover is about. 

[Trini]

4 hours ago, RedVitC said:

The Flash: 4 Reasons Not to Miss This Week's Funny/Serious/Curious Episode

 

Sounds great; can't wait!

[ruby24]

So, regarding the lines Barry kept spouting in his gibberish, it appears that there's some real clues in there that must be foreshadowing.

Obviously the Trial of the Flash is one, so I wonder if they're still teasing it seasons ahead of time, or if this will be The Thinker's big plan, to frame Barry for murder. The other is the line about Nora, and I agree with those that don't think he's referring to his mom, so I'm thinking that he and Iris are probably going to name their daughter Nora?

The diapers line- a big glaring red alert that the twins are coming. And they did not want us to miss that one, they even went out of their way to have Cisco repeat it. Not only is that a confirmation to me that it's happening, but now I wonder how soon it's happening. I always thought Season 6 would be a good time to bring them in, but now I'm thinking the show wants to get there faster, so maybe Iris is pregnant in Season 5, giving birth near the end of the season?

They can go two ways with a pregnancy storyline- Iris can either announce she's pregnant in a season finale or a season premiere. A finale would mean the mandatory 6-month time jump, so when the show picks up again she'd be only a month or two away from delivery. I think it's better timing if it were to be a surprise for a season premiere, because it puts the birth right near the finale, which is the perfect climax. And you get to do all the pregnancy beats during the season, etc.

I guess the twins won't be Don and Dawn Allen though, like in the comics. The writers probably thought those names are too dumb and work in a cutesy way better in print than live-action. So the girl will be Nora, and the boy will be...Bart? Maybe their middle names can be Don and Dawn.

I wonder if this is how they're going to change up the Bart Allen stuff. The hidden message "This house is bitchin" IS apparently a comics line from Bart Allen, from what I understand. So there we have it. Bart is coming. We don't know when, but he will arrive from the future at some point. This season? Next season? Also, will it be Barry/Iris's grandson, or will he be their son? I bet he's going to be their son.

I'm actually hoping that Bart is their third child, so that he can be Impulse and the Tornado Twins are separate. 

[Lady Calypso]

11 hours ago, ruby24 said:

Obviously the Trial of the Flash is one, so I wonder if they're still teasing it seasons ahead of time, or if this will be The Thinker's big plan, to frame Barry for murder. The other is the line about Nora, and I agree with those that don't think he's referring to his mom, so I'm thinking that he and Iris are probably going to name their daughter Nora?

They've been teasing this Trial for most of the series at this point. They introduced the idea in a quick shot when Barry's time travelling in the season 1 finale, if I remember correctly. It's that shot of him in prison. So I think that bringing that storyline to the end of this season would probably be the best time. It wouldn't feel too soon for me because I've been waiting for it since the end of season 1. 

[Trini]

22 hours ago, ruby24 said:

The diapers line- a big glaring red alert that the twins are coming. And they did not want us to miss that one, they even went out of their way to have Cisco repeat it. Not only is that a confirmation to me that it's happening, but now I wonder how soon it's happening. I always thought Season 6 would be a good time to bring them in, but now I'm thinking the show wants to get there faster, so maybe Iris is pregnant in Season 5, giving birth near the end of the season?

I think their children will show up at some point, but this doesn't seem like the type of show that would do a pregnancy or baby storyline. If it happens, I don't see it happening soon. (Not this season, or the next.) Kids/grandkids from the future I think is more likely.

As for 'Trial of the Flash', I can see them attempting it this season -- if they can find a way to tie it in with their plans for The Thinker.

As for the Nora line, that one's got me stumped; although it does seem like Barry's not referring to his mother Nora.

Edited October 17, 2017 by Trini

[RedVitC]

‘The Flash’: Jessica Camacho on Gypsy & Cisco’s Relationship, and Danny Trejo’s Breacher

Interview with Jessica Camacho. Lots more questions at the source.

 

Quote

 

Since we haven’t seen them these last six months, what have Cisco and Gypsy been up to? What does their relationship look like, up until now?

CAMACHO:  They’ve been dating. They’ve just been doing the things that new couples do when you’re smitten. I think that they’ve been busy trying to save the world and protect one another and protect humanity, but when the job is done, I think they race back to each other and make time for each other. They probably do things that most couples do, like cook and watch Netflix and chill. I think they’ve been busy falling into some serious like/love. We see them with this new sweetness that’s been unearthed between them. In the previous season, it was just underlying hints of flirtation, but now it’s this concrete, solidified, “You are my boo” thing that we see between them. That’s what they’ve got going on.

 

In this episode, we see how saving the world can delay a date. If the roles were reversed, do you think Gypsy would expect Cisco to understand, in a way that she doesn’t and gets upset at him about?

CAMACHO:  Yeah! That shows the irrationality of being in love. It’s not always logical and rational. You’re dealing with feelings and emotions and insecurities. Absolutely, if she were busy, she’d be like, “Babe, you know I’m busy. I’ve got a job to do. I love you, but I’ll see you when I see you.” But when it comes to her being on the other end, where she’s waiting and feeling vulnerable, I don’t think she’s used to feeling that way. I think she’s irritated at herself for feeling that way, for making herself vulnerable, and for allowing someone to get so deep into her heart that she’s feeling this way. I think she’s in a conflict with herself about it, but he’s worth it. What she’s finding is that she’s feeling like, “Even though these feelings suck and I hate them, you’re really cute and I just want to kiss you, so let’s try to work it out.” She’s just so smitten, so they make it work.

 

What can you say to tease the Cisco-Gypsy-Breacher dynamic that we’ll see, and what does Danny Trejo bring to the show, just simply by being Danny Trejo?

CAMACHO:  I was so ridiculously stoked when I found out that he was gonna be playing my dad, just because of who he is and what he brings, all the time. He will not let the audience down. He is so great in this role. He comes in when Cisco and I are just totally vibing and are wrapped up in our feelings for one another. Everything is great and we’re in this great place, and here comes my daddy, who’s not having Cisco hanging out with his daughter. No man is good enough for her, in his eyes. Now that Cisco is saying that he is trying to be a part of her life, [Breacher] is like, “Okay, we’ll see what you’ve got!,” and decides to put him to a very, very intense test. That episode is gonna be so fun because it is definitely Breacher on the hunt for Cisco. He’s gotta show him what he’s made of, and it’s gonna be such a great episode.

 

Apparently we'll see Cynthia in a different outfit this episode.

[Trini]

Grant and Candice BTS pic from one of the crossover directors:

 

Not really spoilery, but Green Arrow - nice shot of the new suit:

[RedVitC]

One more screener reaction:

[ruby24]

So once again, they have no idea what to do with Wally, and the next episode he's going to get sent off for a while, conveniently right when Tom C comes back as Wells.

To be honest, I haven't missed Tom Cavanagh at all so far. It goes to show that the show does have more characters than they really know what to do with- even with Wells not there yet, Wally still gets shafted. They have no clue how to handle two speedsters, because they really just have no use for more than one. I think Wally probably SHOULD be recurring. 

[ruby24]

This obviously corrupt warden clearly figures in to the Thinker's plans somehow. I think this is leading to Trial of the Flash.

[ruby24]

I saw the stills for the next episode.

I think Iris will tell Barry in this episode that she wants to get married in a church. Because he said in this one he picked out a venue, so obviously things change. 

[Trini]

From the 4.03 stills, it looks like we'll get to see Iris in two wedding dresses this season! Wonder why Barry is meeting up with Hazard?

---

The 4.05 episode description is out:

Quote

"Girls Night Out" - (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, DLV) (HDTV)

KATEE SACKHOFF ("BATTLESTAR GALACTICA") AND EMILY BETT RICKARDS ("ARROW") GUEST STAR
- Having received an ominous threat from her old boss, Amunet (guest star Katee Sackhoff), Caitlin (Danielle Panabaker) fears that her past time as Killer Frost may be back to haunt her. Felicity (guest star Emily Bett Rickards) comes to Central City to help the girls celebrate Iris's (Candice Patton) bachelorette party, while Cisco (Carlos Valdes), Joe (Jesse L. Martin) and the guys take Barry out for a night on the town.

Laura Belsey directed the episode written by Lauren Certo & Kristen Kim
(#405). Original airdate 11/7/2017.

a) female writing and directing credits, (not sure if this is a first for the show)

b) this one is rated TV-14. (it's possible for that to change, though)

Edited October 19, 2017 by Trini

[ruby24]

Some people think that Hazard is Becky Cooper, aka Barry's high school girlfriend that was mentioned once back in Season 1. That's possible. Although the actress is 36, so I'm not sure if that matches up. Becky Cooper would have to be Barry's age. I suppose it doesn't matter, but I would think if they intended her to be Becky Cooper they would have cast someone a little younger.

Guessing the TV-14 is for scenes in a strip club (apparently they filmed in one for that ep).

Edited October 19, 2017 by ruby24

[Trini]

7 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

Some people think that Hazard is Becky Cooper, aka Barry's high school girlfriend that was mentioned once back in Season 1. That's possible.

I can see that; it's a weird callback, though.
They should have people from Iris' past show up occasionally. :(

[Trini]

Quote

Laura Belsey directed the episode written by Lauren Certo & Kristen Kim

BTW, Certo has written episodes before, Kim is new.

-----

From the SFX article in the Media thread:

Quote

The Flash's Dibney will differ from the superhero beloved by many decades of comics fans. "The Ralph of the comics is probably more squeaky clean than the guy that we're meeting," adds Kreisberg, "who has a long way to go before he becomes the Elongated Man. Hartley is so funny. Injecting somebody who's that hilarious, it's made everybody else funnier too."

Well, we'll see if he's funny. What I'm worried about is seeing the same stuff we saw with Julian.

[johntfs]

12 hours ago, Trini said:

Well, we'll see if he's funny. What I'm worried about is seeing the same stuff we saw with Julian.

We might end up seeing Barry in the Julian role trying to deal with Ralph as the loose cannon.  "Wait!  You can't just leave the scene and do what you want, Ralph!  That's my privilege and mine alone!"

[Trini]

From EW:

Quote

What’s next for Wally this season on The Flash, especially now that Barry is back? — Emerson

That’s the big question! “Wally is going on his own journey, where he’s kind of wondering what exactly his purpose is,” Grant Gustin teases. “He had always wanted to be a little bit more than he was. I don’t think he loved the idea of being Kid Flash, and I think he thought it was his time, and now Barry’s back and he doesn’t really know how he fits.”

More like the writers don't know how he fits....

Ask Ausiello:

Quote

Question: Any hints about how Harry Wells will rejoin Team Flash? —Miss Ellys

Ausiello: Harry shows up on our Earth this coming Tuesday bearing some bad news. And despite getting a very chilly welcome as a result, he thrusts himself into Team Flash’s latest case, eventually helping uncover a (literally) big clue in the brand-new metahumans mystery.

Sounding more and more like a break-up for Wally/Jesse. But they didn't want to bring the actress back, so it's expected.

I just hope they don't ruin Cisco/Gypsy; that actress has another show in another city.

[ruby24]

Yeah, well we haven't heard about Gypsy being back since episode 4, right? I guess they're only on episode 9 though, so technically they could still be together offscreen.

I'm not sure if they're going to break up Wally/Jesse or if they're just going to send Wally off to be with Jesse. I mean, I guess Harry's message could be that Jesse is breaking up with him, but that's kind of mean to send your dad to do the dumping for you. And we know Wally leaves after this episode, so where does he go if he doesn't go off to be with Jesse?

[Trini]

25 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I'm not sure if they're going to break up Wally/Jesse or if they're just going to send Wally off to be with Jesse. I mean, I guess Harry's message could be that Jesse is breaking up with him, but that's kind of mean to send your dad to do the dumping for you. And we know Wally leaves after this episode, so where does he go if he doesn't go off to be with Jesse?

Oh, it's definitely mean, and I'm going to hate it if and when it happens, but Violette Beane hasn't filmed anything as far as I can tell. If she was going to appear just once, they'd have to write a whole subplot about them breaking up, and I don't think they wanted to do that.

I thought Wally and Jesse would be so cute together, but he writing for them has been so bad.

[RedVitC]

Early reaction for episode 3. They probably released another screener?

[RedVitC]

Teasers for the episode from Screenspy (I find them pretty big teasers, quite spoilery)

[ruby24]

So...looks like Cecile is pregnant?

Hmm. I wonder what that means for a possible WestAllen baby in the future. Delayed until season 6? I was thinking it'd happen next year.

[RedVitC]

Yeah, not sure who else it could be at this point. Unless it's Cynthia maybe? That would be a shock. Just in time for the arrival of her dad next episode.

[ruby24]

I'd be shocked if it was Gypsy, but I guess it's possible? I think it'd be weird if they made Cisco a dad before Barry.

If it's Joe, it can just be a recurring subplot for him. Maybe it'd also be a test run for seeing how they could handle a baby on the show, and still have it mostly be offscreen. I know they will want those Tornado Twins eventually (or Bart Allen, depending on if they decide to make him their son), but Barry and Iris having kids will be a much bigger deal, at least at first.

[RedVitC]

Ok, I just had a thought....what if Jesse's news is that she's pregnant....? They did say that that relationship would evolve...(and because she's pregnant she doesn't want to run into the Speedforce or something which is why she has her dad bring the news)

Edited to add: Now that I think about it the teaser says the dad finds out in the last moments of the episode, so that rules out Wally if he is indeed the one leaving for a bit.

Edited October 24, 2017 by RedVitC

[RedVitC]

44 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

If it's Joe, it can just be a recurring subplot for him. Maybe it'd also be a test run for seeing how they could handle a baby on the show, and still have it mostly be offscreen. I know they will want those Tornado Twins eventually (or Bart Allen, depending on if they decide to make him their son), but Barry and Iris having kids will be a much bigger deal, at least at first.

I guess, but wouldn't see it as a test run, personally. I think if Joe and Cecile have a baby this season we might not see the twins in baby form (as in Iris getting pregnant in real time) at all unless the show goes longer than 7 seasons. We're at the beginning of the season and if Cecile just finds out she's pregnant that means we'll see the entire pregnancy play out during the season. I don't think they'd do an arc like that twice. But the great thing about speedster kids is they can show up in teenage or even adult form.

[ruby24]

I don't know, I think they could. Cecile's not in that many episodes, Iris's pregnancy would still be a far bigger focus.

[Trini]

Promo photos for 4.04 are out:

[ruby24]

I'm actually looking forward to Ralph Dibney/Elongated Man. That character is actually one of the oldest in the Flash comics, aside from Iris. He was a good friend and ally of Barry, going back to the early 60's.

Looks like they're doing him a bit differently here, but I hope he's done well.

[Trini]

EW Spoiler Room:

Quote

The connection between Killer Frost and Amunet will be explored in-depth during the upcoming fifth episode — Killer Frost returns during the bachelorette party, which leads to an interesting, if not enlightening, night for the ladies. “When Killer Frost shows up, Iris has a lot of compassion for Killer Frost and a lot of compassion for Caitlin and is pivotal in helping Caitlin reconcile herself with her past and some of the mistakes that Killer Frost made,” Danielle Panabaker teases.

 

Uuuuuugggghhhh.....