S06.E08: All Dogs Go to Heaven

[Guest]

Dean and Sam investigate what seems to be a werewolf killing but turns out to be a skinwalker posing as a family dog who is taking revenge on his owner’s enemies.

 

 

[DittyDotDot]

No, just no. Can't even give it a meh.

 

Although, I have to admit, once Soulless Sam was outted and he gave up the pretense of pretending to be original-recipe Sam, I rather enjoyed him. Scenes like Dean trying to connect with Lucky in order to get him to help them and Sam's "not helping" and Dean setting up the sniper rifle and Sam testing the waters by laying it all out there are actually enjoyable to me. I know, I know, I'm weird and twisted, but I'm okay with it.  Soulless Sam couldn't stay around for long before I got tired of the gag, but I liked how this new dynamic kinda shook things up a bit for the time being. 

 

ETA: forgot to mention that I do kinda like the beginning with Sam and Dean at that BBQ place, it's nice that the show feels more on-the-road at the beginning of S6 than it felt in S5. Plus, there's Crowely and I do enjoy Mark Sheppard's line delivery, so there's also that.

Edited November 18, 2014 by DittyDotDot

[Demented Daisy]

Hate with the fire of 1000 suns.  Probably because I'm a dog owner and the concept squicks me out.  *shudder*

[GirlyGeek]

Ha ha, not an episode I'd choose to watch again, but no hatred for it.

I'm a cat person anyway. ;)

[Demented Daisy]

I tried watching today and I couldn't.  So much emotional manipulation in this one.  When he's human, he's skeevy; when he's a dog, you feel bad for him.  Ugh.  Haaaaaaate.

[Hanahope]

Yeah, didn't care for the premise, and then they didn't get closer to getting Sam's soul back.  Boy soulless  Sam is really annoying, do I have to put up with it all season?  

[AwesomO4000]

1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

 Boy soulless  Sam is really annoying, do I have to put up with it all season?  

Spoiler

No, not much longer.

[Hanahope]

Good.  It's this type of character that can turn me off a show.  A few episodes isn't too bad, especially since I know it's not normal.

[AwesomO4000]

1 minute ago, Hanahope said:

A few episodes isn't too bad, especially since I know it's not normal.

And next episode is actually one of my "fun" favorites. It's a divisive episode though as not everyone agrees that it's fun.

[bettername2come]

Man, I thought this was the one where Dean

Spoiler

talks to dogs. Apparently, that one was one of the few things I liked about season 9. The three dog episodes run together for me.

I got all excited and now I'm sad. 

"You'd sell your brother for a dollar right now if you really needed a soda." What a great summary of Soulless Sam's character. Sam jumping the fence to chase dog guy is just beautiful. I love watching the Winchesters run. "Soul or not, that's funny." I do kind of enjoy Soulless Sam being a dick to the skinwalker. "It's your gigantor body and maybe your brain, but it's not you." I do love that line. I enjoy it when Dean acknowledges Sam's height. "I'd double cross us." "Thanks, Dexter, that's reassuring." Hey, it's that guy from several episodes including the wrestling one! I like him. "I don't even really care about you." Dammit, that one hurts. And Sam admitting to killing innocent people in the line of duty so casually is just chilling. Dean saying "get ma brother back" has way too much of an effect on me. Seriously, how does that line still work on me after all these years. 

I just realized I said nothing about the actual case of the week in my post. Probably why I mix it up with other eps. 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

I'm always sad when I see Madison in the previouslies.  

I want to know who Biology class Suzie Heizer was.  I'd like to see her pop up in a future ep.  

Wow, when Sam decides to stop pretending, he just goes all out.  But how does Sam know that Cal is sweating vodka?  He got super smelling to go with his no-sleep soullessness?

Okay, the dog Lucky as a person was just creepy.  Even the dog was creepy after I found out it was really a person masquerading, and I like dogs.  Skinwalker, huh?  I guess I forgot what those were.  Maybe it was just so weird that I blocked it out.  I was getting them confused with shapeshifters.  

From whom, Sam.  Not from who.  Grammar matters.  

I did feel sorry for the guy at the end.  I wonder why Sam didn't consider this skinwalker thing at the beginning of S8?  I also wonder what it was about 'that other Sam' that SoullessSam missed that would have made him want to go back to being him, considering a lot of it was harder?

[Iju]

my favourite part of the ep is when sam runs after lucky. that was so cool.

and my mother said after watching this she feels the bros need a dog ;)

[The Companion]

Man, this was a bit creepy. I am with the woman at the end. Never talk to me again creeper that has apparently been watching me. I briefly considered it and one of my dogs is suspect. The other is way too dumb. 😆

I find the show substantially improved with the no soul reveal. I really enjoyed the exploration of the concept here. I miss Sam Original Flavor, but I can get behind this twist now that there is communication. 

I hate to agree with no soul Sam and I don't know what they could have done, but taking out the leader of the cell doesn't stop a pretty horrifying army arising later. I think you save who you can now, but they don't get any leads on other cells, which is disturbing.

I noticed the dogs all reverted to human, and was relieved because dead dogs is apparently where I draw the line

[MagnusHex]

Now that I understand they're doing Alpha versions of classic monsters, it's almost a disappointment in hindsight that the Alpha Vamp wasn't Dracula, Nosferatu or at least someone as cool as them. That's one of the problems I always had with low-budget shows like this, they pull their punches and make their monsters look too much like humans instead of something actually monstrous and inhuman. It's boring. Remember Coppola's Dracula from '92 starring Gary Oldman?

Now THAT looks like stuff out of nightmares. I get that it's an unfair comparison since it's a big budget movie by a big name director (though Coppola's days from being The Godfather guy was kinda left behind by then since he had a string of mediocre works), but I'm just saying. You're gonna present the "Alpha", or the first of all monsters, which should be a pretty badass concept on paper, I was just expecting something with a little more kick and less mundane.

That does beg the question, however: who would win in a fight? The Winchesters or Dracula? Buffy already kicked Drac's ass once, though to be fair, I guess she has superhuman strength (and maybe agility?). Moving on to the episode at hand.

This time, we've got a werewolf knockoff skinwalker who's this cute little German Shepherd. For what it's worth, Shepherds scare me a lot, as do many big dogs that bark, so good job I guess. All things aside, I don't really mind skinwalkers over werewolves in hindsight because 1) it's based on actual Navajo folklore where evil witches could turn themselves into animals, 2) it feels more realistic turning into a regular animal than some fantasy monster, 3) Supernatural's werewolves were never really that terrifying-looking or monstrous-looking anyway IIRC (except maybe the anime version). I accidentally spoiled myself learning about "pureblood" werewolves, but I'm not holding my breath. Plus, Dean was right: you never really know how many of those dogs prowling in the day are skinwalkers just waiting for the signal, making it far more disturbing than your typical werewolves prowling in the night. And that's why I'm a cat person.

I kinda like this episode's Subplot of the Week tbh, which isn't usually common for me when it comes to MotW episodes. Obviously, Lucky's a murderous psycho (as Mandy put it, maybe not in those exact words) who killed Mandy's husband and their landlord, but the whole concept of man's best friend being a lethal protector, whether their actions are justified or not, is often an intriguing exploration of the relationship between dogs and humans (for another example, also see the 1993 movie, Man's Best Friend, starring Lance Henriksen, which also featured a dog who would kill anyone to defend the protagonist). Then again, Lucky isn't really a dog, but some hobo who got way too aggressive in protecting his supposed family (not to mention what Daisy said, Lucky did feel skeevy in human form, but possibly also in dog form as well since he followed her into shower). Good concept; execution leaves one yearning.

Also, I second Ditty's notion about Soulless Sam being more entertaining. I think it's the same way with many protagonists when their "dark side" is unleashed and you get to see them cut loose without any moral restraints (see Angelus in Angel and how he's often more popular). Sam has indeed become a better hunter, of course, but with a very steep price of lacking that humanity to not sacrifice innocents for the greater good. Without Dean around, he would have killed Mandy if it meant stopping the pack. And truth be told, much as it is interesting to see where Soulless Sam would go in terms of pushing moral boundaries, I never really minded Mopey Sam as much as other people, probably because I don't mind mopey characters that much (probably because I've always been somewhat of a mopey whiner myself full of angst and was able to relate to Sam's daddy issues during season 1). I mean, I have my limits in tolerance for mopeyness in a character (I legitimately wanted to murder Ben in Telltale's Walking Dead game, even as I saw my pathetic self in him), but Sam hadn't really crossed that line for me yet.

Reading these comments, I feel bad we've come to this point where Sam is just an annoyance every episode. Sure, that might have started as early as bloodlust Sam in season 4, but there's always a chemistry between Jensen and Jared that made the brotherly bond work. I don't like to hate-watch a show, so I try to give these negative elements of a show an open mind for as long as I could tolerate it, and I just enjoy seeing the brothers working together so much that I wouldn't really want to see seasons-long drama where they just fight with each other all the time. Just stick with the fun campy stuff of saving people, hunting things, family business and I'm a happy pup.

2/5 for this episode. Was going to rate it a 3, but then I thought about how contemptible Lucky really is in a self-righteous and possessive kind of way, and Soulless Sam's bickering with Dean didn't do this episode (or this season if I could be honest) any favors. The tune's getting old. And the other .5 decrease is because the brothers didn't bother to kill Lucky even though they were so willing to kill Madison to prevent her from hurting anyone else. Like, what the fuck? Lucky killed at least three people this episode, not to mention being an actual creep compared to Madison. Big F moment.

P.S.: Dexter reference!

Side note: Just found out season 6 was supposed to be a five season arc. Yeah, okay, now that makes sense.

Edited April 13, 2023 by MagnusHex

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, MagnusHex said:

Now that I understand they're doing Alpha versions of classic monsters, it's almost a disappointment in hindsight that the Alpha Vamp wasn't Dracula, Nosferatu or at least someone as cool as them. That's one of the problems I always had with low-budget shows like this, they pull their punches and make their monsters look too much like humans instead of something actually monstrous and inhuman. It's boring. Remember Coppola's Dracula from '92 starring Gary Oldman?

It could be more about the show itself being unable to get the rights to really use those specific characters as much as anything. They could name drop Dracula in s4 because the shifter wasn't actually supposed to be Dracula in the show.  The show may have wanted to continue crafting their own original vampire lore of which they would hold the rights IMHO

 

[MagnusHex]

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

It could be more about the show itself being unable to get the rights to really use those specific characters as much as anything. They could name drop Dracula in s4 because the shifter wasn't actually supposed to be Dracula in the show.  The show may have wanted to continue crafting their own original vampire lore of which they would hold the rights IMHO

 

True, but my point wasn't that they didn't use Dracula specifically, but that it wasn't a creature as demonic-looking or as epic in scale as him. The Alpha Vamp's just some guy with bad teeth.

Edited April 14, 2023 by MagnusHex

[FlickChick]

22 hours ago, MagnusHex said:

I just enjoy seeing the brothers working together so much that I wouldn't really want to see seasons-long drama where they just fight with each other all the time.

Sorry Magnus, all I can say is buckle up! 🙁

[MagnusHex]

18 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

Sorry Magnus, all I can say is buckle up! 🙁

I'm pretty sure I've already learned about that before, but I guess I was in denial and having wishful thinking. Ah well... it's nice to dream, isn't it? 😂

[CluelessDrifter]

20 hours ago, MagnusHex said:

True, but my point wasn't that they didn't use Dracula specifically, but that it wasn't a creature as demonic-looking or as epic in scale as him. The Alpha Vamp's just some guy with bad teeth.

I love Rick Worthy's performance as the Alpha Vamp.  I also really like his backstory on how he was really struggling with getting roles at the time that this came up, and he credits it with reinvigorating his career.  I wouldn't change him being there.  I think we got sort of what you're describing with the wendigo in season 1.  

[MagnusHex]

10 minutes ago, CluelessDrifter said:

I love Rick Worthy's performance as the Alpha Vamp.  I also really like his backstory on how he was really struggling with getting roles at the time that this came up, and he credits it with reinvigorating his career.  I wouldn't change him being there.  I think we got sort of what you're describing with the wendigo in season 1.  

I suppose that's a fair take.

Can't remember much about the Wendigo. Season 1 felt like ages ago, even for me. Still, that's a wendigo though, not a vamp. I've never been big on wendigoes as monsters go since I'm not really familiar with them. And if a third-tier monster like a wendigo is cooler-looking than the more popular vampire, let alone the Alpha of all vamps... yeah, doesn't sound right. lol

Edited April 14, 2023 by MagnusHex

[CluelessDrifter]

20 hours ago, MagnusHex said:

And if a third-tier monster like a wendigo is cooler-looking than the more popular vampire, let alone the Alpha of all vamps... yeah, doesn't sound right. lol

As a refresher the below, and I wouldn't call a Wendigo a third-tier monster.  It just isn't European in its origin so it's less well known, but in actuality, they're pretty top tier as far as monsters go.

[MagnusHex]

3 minutes ago, CluelessDrifter said:

As a refresher the below, and I wouldn't call a Wendigo a third-tier monster.  It just isn't European in its origin so it's less well known, but in actuality, they're pretty top tier as far as monsters go.

I suppose. I was speaking in terms of popularity, not in terms of how powerful the Wendigo is. I've definitely heard of Dracula, but I've never heard of the Wendigo until I got much older (unless you count the Abominable Snowman). But honestly, it doesn't matter either way, because I wouldn't have minded seeing an Alpha Wendigo in place of the Alpha Vamp if it means we get a cooler-looking monster.

Edited April 15, 2023 by MagnusHex

[CluelessDrifter]

45 minutes ago, MagnusHex said:

I've never heard of the Wendigo until I got much older (unless you count the Abominable Snowman). But honestly, it doesn't matter either way, because I wouldn't have minded seeing an Alpha Wendigo in place of the Alpha Vamp if it means we get a cooler-looking monster.

A Big Foot is the closest to a Yeti (Abominable Snowman).  Wendigos are essentially insatiable cannibals with supernatural abilities, and the one on the show came across much more like Predator with the way it could blend in to its surroundings, but if we're going for real world reasons, it's because of the show's budget that they didn't keep doing it, and based on the effects that they had in later season even with a a bigger budget, that's probably a good thing.  In the earlier seasons, they didn't need the crutch of VFX, because the storytelling was there, the show was darker, had less of a budget, and was still much better at eliciting the horror of the things they came across without really needing to show monsters in all their monster-y goodness.  As their budget grew, I think it actually hindered the overall storytelling.

Edited April 15, 2023 by CluelessDrifter

[FlickChick]

22 hours ago, MagnusHex said:

I'm pretty sure I've already learned about that before, but I guess I was in denial and having wishful thinking. Ah well... it's nice to dream, isn't it? 😂

Yes, dreams are wonderful! However, despite its shortcomings, and it has many, Supernatural is still one of my favorite series with Dean Winchester as my favorite fictional character of all time. I tried not to expect too much perfection and that helped me hand-wave some of the really poor story choices or "horror" characters. And as I said above, I always had Dean Fucking Winchester to look forward to. 👍

[DeeDee79]

40 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

Yes, dreams are wonderful! However, despite its shortcomings, and it has many, Supernatural is still one of my favorite series with Dean Winchester as my favorite fictional character of all time. I tried not to expect too much perfection and that helped me hand-wave some of the really poor story choices or "horror" characters. And as I said above, I always had Dean Fucking Winchester to look forward to. 👍

Totally agree with all of this! 😊

[MagnusHex]

1 hour ago, CluelessDrifter said:

A Big Foot is the closest to a Yeti (Abominable Snowman).  Wendigos are essentially insatiable cannibals with supernatural abilities, and the one on the show came across much more like Predator with the way it could blend in to its surroundings, but if we're going for real world reasons, it's because of the show's budget that they didn't keep doing it, and based on the effects that they had in later season even with a a bigger budget, that's probably a good thing.  In the earlier seasons, they didn't need the crutch of VFX, because the storytelling was there, the show was darker, had less of a budget, and was still much better at eliciting the horror of the things they came across without really needing to show monsters in all their monster-y goodness.  As their budget grew, I think it actually hindered the overall storytelling.

Yeah, honestly, I would've probably not nitpicked so much about how lame the Alpha creatures look if the main plot's more interesting, or if the Soulless Sam plot had more meat to it than "Sam lacking empathy scares Dean." Much as I like it when there's a cool-looking monster around, that's not really why I watch this show for because I understood its limited budget on TV. Same with other smaller-budget cult TV in their early seasons like Buffy and X-Files before they became bigger in later seasons: I enjoyed them for the character writing.

Unfortunately, Supernatural has Sam as a character.

It's not even quite Mulder and Scully where their chemistry made the show great; Sam and Dean's chemistry did make early seasons entertaining, but that's like 3 seasons maybe out of 15 before they chewed each other out and begun the moping every season up till 6; Mulder and Scully's chemistry was great throughout almost the entire show, even in the reboot. "Sam and Dean" doesn't quite have that kind of appeal.

Edited April 15, 2023 by MagnusHex

[FlickChick]

23 hours ago, MagnusHex said:

Mulder and Scully's chemistry was great throughout almost the entire show, even in the reboot. "Sam and Dean" doesn't quite have that kind of appeal.

You're absolutely right about Mulder and Scully's chemistry and that's the main reason that the show became so popular. (I personally also liked the alien conspiracy story, but I know others didn't)

I also agree that "Sam and Dean" doesn't match it. However, better writing without constantly trying to create drama between them would have helped continue a positive relationship. If you noticed, that type of drama was not something that was prevalent between Mulder and Scully.  And, as you said above, Unfortunately they had Sam as a character.🙁

[DeeDee79]

1 hour ago, FlickChick said:

You're absolutely right about Mulder and Scully's chemistry and that's the main reason that the show became so popular. (I personally also liked the alien conspiracy story, but I know others didn't)

 

I also loved the alien conspiracy storyline. It gave us some of the more interesting characters like The Lone Gunmen, The Smoking Man, Alex Krycek, Mr. X and all of The Smoking Man's cronies. 

1 hour ago, FlickChick said:

I also agree that "Sam and Dean" doesn't match it. However, better writing without constantly trying to create drama between them would have helped continue a positive relationship.

I agree with this also. Continuous drama doesn't keep things interesting, it just annoys the viewer.