S04.E06: Pretenders

[immortalfrieza]

Nice to have Elias actually DO something in an episode for once besides be Team Machine's errand boy that otherwise just sits around looking menacing.

 

I knew the Brotherhood was involved the moment I saw those mooks questioning and then burning Banks. All of his guys are basically walking caricatures so it made it easy to figure that out.

[Netfoot]

By the way, I'd just like to mention how sick to death I am, of people in TV-land pouring gasoline, then throwing a Zippo lighter to get the blaze going.  Next scene, the cops are testing for accelerants.  WTF for?  There's always a toasted Zippo lighter, right there, front and center!  And the perpetrator is always so easy to spot.  He's the guy who buys Zippos by the boxful.  because if you throw around Zippos like matchsticks, you've got to buy them like matchsticks too, right?

[shura]

Maybe the guy has a cigar store as a Zippo-laundering operation. But I agree, what's wrong with using an actual matchstick? A box will last you a loooong while, and nobody will get suspicious if you buy a box once in a while.

 

Re: FBI Raid Jackets, doesn't it follow that, if one is into something nefarious and has reasons to think an FBI raid is a possibility, it would be a good idea to keep a letter jacket like that on hand since they are not supposed to shoot people wearing them? And the FBI is basically telegraphing this idea to the criminals by the very fact of having jackets like that?

 

I'd dearly love to see someone put 'evil minion 2006-2013' on an application.

 

"Can you explain what your experience as an evil minion will bring to performing your duties as a school nurse? Also, was there a reason you spent seven years as a minion without getting promoted?"

Edited October 30, 2014 by shura

[Zahdii]

Maybe the guy has a cigar store as a Zippo-laundering operation. But I agree, what's wrong with using an actual matchstick? A box will last you a loooong while, and nobody will get suspicious if you buy a box once in a while.

 

Re: FBI Raid Jackets, doesn't it follow that, if one is into something nefarious and has reasons to think an FBI raid is a possibility, it would be a good idea to keep a letter jacket like that on hand since they are not supposed to shoot people wearing them? And the FBI is basically telegraphing this idea to the criminals by the very fact of having jackets like that?

 

 

"Can you explain what your experience as an evil minion will bring to performing your duties as a school nurse? Also, was there a reason you spent seven years as a minion without getting promoted?"

 

Well, once you've made it to the level of Scarface, you either kill off your boss and take over, your boss lets you out of the organization (can't see that happening), or you run like hell.  However, I would love to see someone actually asking those questions in an interview.  Can't see a former evil minion actually applying for a school nurse's job, but I wonder what he/she would apply for.  Head of security, maybe?  Can you see him working in a high school and trying to decide whether to send the smarter criminal elements to his old boss or working to get them to walk a more lawful path?

Edited October 30, 2014 by Zahdii

[Julia]

Pretty much the same people who hire former congressional aides, I would think.

[fastiller]

 He's the guy who buys Zippos by the boxful.  because if you throw around Zippos like matchsticks, you've got to buy them like matchsticks too, right?

And Zippo lighters are not cheap.  Go with matches instead.

[Shadda2]

I've never been able to figure out how they stay lit if you throw them.  Wouldn't matches work better.

 

Shaw kept calling Reese by his real name while talking to him on the phone.  Didn't Finch tell her not to do that at the beginning of the episode?  Maybe I missed something along the way but I didn't think they were on the analog phones at the time.

 

Loved the episode.  Loved Walter "Mittey" as was mentioned above.   Also loved that Elias did give the guns to Reese and Fusco to be destroyed.  Keeping one for himself of course.

 

My other question was wouldn't Samaritan be all over the fact that those guns had landed in the US?  That doesn't seem irrelevant to me.

[jah1986]

Shaw kept calling Reese by his real name while talking to him on the phone.  Didn't Finch tell her not to do that at the beginning of the episode?  Maybe I missed something along the way but I didn't think they were on the analog phones at the time.

I thought that was just Finch's call to Shaw that the line wasn't secure. I admit I was tired and wasn't paying as much attention to detail.

 

I thought it was a good episode.  Quick question, because watching this show with jet lag is a bad thing. I've recently caught up on the episodes but when was it established that Dominic was behind the Brotherhood?

[beadgirl]

 

Now I'm wondering how one goes about recruiting an evil minion, or if I'd like to become one, how do I go about applying for the position?

I can't help you there, but should you ever decide to be an evil overlord, I've got advice for you: www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html

 

Come to think of it, Elias seems to be taking a page from that book (or an item from that list); he's more sensible than most evil overlords.

Edited October 30, 2014 by beadgirl

[ABay]

Quick question, because watching this show with jet lag is a bad thing. I've recently caught up on the episodes but when was it established that Dominic was behind the Brotherhood?

It was the worst episode of the season so far, the one with the kids. A pox on you for making me remember it.

 

The thing about being an evil overlord and/or the quest for world domination is that it's just too much work.

Edited October 30, 2014 by ABay

[Bort]

And Zippo lighters are not cheap. Go with matches instead.

They're reasonable if you get the cheap knockoffs. The thing with those is that they work well at first but wear out fast, while Zippo's better quality makes them last longer (lots longer, my dad still had his that he got in Vietnam). So the cheapies will work if one is only going to throw it away on arson.

I've never been able to figure out how they stay lit if you throw them. Wouldn't matches work better.

Zippos are fairly wind proof, that's one of their selling points. Above mentioned longevity being another.

[DeLurker]

 

The thing about being an evil overlord and/or the quest for world domination is that it's just too much work

Prince Humperdinck: Tyrone, you know how much I love watching you work, but I’ve got my country’s 500th anniversary to plan, my wedding to arrange, my wife to murder and Guilder to frame for it; I’m swamped.

 

A Princess Bride quote to fit the occasion.

[Princess Lucky]

I was thinking; assuming Finch did indeed talk to the Machine, isn't this the first time she has given him anything other than a number? She has given Root direct instructions before and, as I recall, Root once told Finch that the Machine communicates with him in the way that he has chosen, respecting his wishes. Last week Finch decided to actually talk to her. And the Machine responded. I imagine that, since Finch didn't just approach Jessica Hecht's character to suss her out (like one might do with a "victim or perpetrator?" number), since he clearly had set this whole thing up with the mugger etc, the Machine actually sent him on a specific mission. She told him exactly what to do. She may have even given him the code for whatever it was he planted in the woman's laptop. That's pretty huge.

 

This kind of puts Finch on a level similar to that of both Root but also Greer. In the end of this week's episode, he's seen ordering his agents to keep tabs on the woman/her tech company because Samaritan told him so, without knowing why. Granted, our Team seems to be given a little more leeway with their missions (or at least they did until Samaritan came online, what with Finch and Reese deciding not to kill that Congressman) but still. Greer, for that matter, seems content (if not a little impatient, or just plain curious) to follow Samaritan's orders.

 

Isn't that amazing? That all the human characters on this show, extremely intelligent in their own right, are literally at the mercy of the machines? More than ever before (because the Machine just used to have the solitary purpose Finch designed it to achieve, saving people, relevants plus the bonus irrelevant list), the Machines are in control. They're following every whim of the Machine and Samaritan and they don't even know why. That's chiling but also fascinating from a storytelling perspective. The A.I.s control the plot, if you will. That's a very interesting perspective, in my opinion.

[Netfoot]

Isn't that amazing? That all the human characters on this show, extremely intelligent in their own right, are literally at the mercy of the machines?

 

That's what this show is all about.  Everyone, no matter how smart or able is completely at the mercy of the machines.  Everybody.

 

The only threat to a machine is another machine.  We are lucky that one of them seems to have our best interests at heart.

[Raziela212]

It was really unfortunate that Harold's plot was so predictable. The second that woman said "Oh I am not a professor, I own a company", I knew she had to be a Samaritan pawn.

 

Elias talking about the river freezing over kind of reminded me of Reddington from the Blacklist. They are very similar characters, both crime kingpins that use the good guys to their advantage and pulling a bunch of semi-related stories out of their asses. It's just James Spader pulls it off so much better, and everytime I see Elias I just see Veronica Mars' father or the SWAT captain from Flashpoint, he just has too much of a good-guy face in my opinion.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Raziela212

[Syme]

And the FBI is basically telegraphing this idea to the criminals by the very fact of having jackets like that?

 

The really cool ones have a flap panel in back, with velcro.

 

In disguise mode, you just look like a buzz cut, whiteshirt wearing, Florsheim-wearing, gun-toting FeeBee.

 

Pull the flap down and presto:

you instantly become a buzz cut, whiteshirt wearing, Florsheim-wearing, gun-toting, raid jacket-wearing FeeBee.

 

Clever, right???

[Julia]

Oh, you'd be amazed. Back when I worked swing shift, there was one night the bus took forever to come, and while I waited I got to watch two handcuffed drug-buying suburban teenagers sit in the back of a patrol car while their erstwhile street dealer, in denim and a head bandana and a pair of shiny black Florsheims, waited for somebody to come for daddy's expensive car.

[atua]

It was really unfortunate that Harold's plot was so predictable. The second that woman said "Oh I am not a professor, I own a company", I knew she had to be a Samaritan pawn.

Yes, but an unwitting one. From her perspective, Decima's just another potential investor interested in her company. I felt a bit sorry for her by the end, caught in the middle of a cold war between two AI.

Elias talking about the river freezing over kind of reminded me of Reddington from the Blacklist. They are very similar characters, both crime kingpins that use the good guys to their advantage and pulling a bunch of semi-related stories out of their asses. It's just James Spader pulls it off so much better, and everytime I see Elias I just see Veronica Mars' father or the SWAT captain from Flashpoint, he just has too much of a good-guy face in my opinion.

I guess this is a matter of personal preference. Reddington is a caricature on The Blacklist, with his seemingly omniscient knowledge about every criminal enterprise under the sun. I don't think Red's tendency for the dramatic makes him a good fit for this universe, and I'm saying this as a fan of Spader. Whereas Elias' ordinariness is one of his greatest assets. He maintained a cover identity as a high school teacher for years, and did it well enough that neither Harold's background checks or John's instincts as a covert operative picked up on until the end. The only other number of the week that fooled Team Machine that effectively was Root. He makes it easy to forget what a manipulative, cold-blooded murderer he is and that's why he's so dangerous. The Invisible Man indeed...

[Boundary]

I was thinking; assuming Finch did indeed talk to the Machine, isn't this the first time she has given him anything other than a number? She has given Root direct instructions before and, as I recall, Root once told Finch that the Machine communicates with him in the way that he has chosen, respecting his wishes. Last week Finch decided to actually talk to her. And the Machine responded. I imagine that, since Finch didn't just approach Jessica Hecht's character to suss her out (like one might do with a "victim or perpetrator?" number), since he clearly had set this whole thing up with the mugger etc, the Machine actually sent him on a specific mission. She told him exactly what to do. She may have even given him the code for whatever it was he planted in the woman's laptop. That's pretty huge.

 

It is huge indeed. Which is why it would royally piss me off if that conversation remained in off-screenville. I get why sometimes shows want to hold back the good stuff until the sweeps but this show had already promised me The Conversation. For them to skip it because "well, this ain't the sweeps yet"... well I don't buy it. This show has been too good for that. The other explanation is even less likely, given the overall quality: that the writers didn't know how huge this was. I want to see Finch and his machine talking, with no protocol or no one interfering. Is that too much to ask, JJ and Nolan?

[Netfoot]

I felt a bit sorry for her by the end, caught in the middle of a cold war between two AI.

 

A war she is unaware is actually underway, and one which her conversation with Harold would indicate, she can't even conceptualize.

[Oscirus]

Ironically by only choosing numbers connected to the  brotherhood/decimal, the machine has turned team machine into the very thing that team machine was fighting against by basically having team machine save relevant numbers.

 

I liked this case even if it did turn a bit meta. I was genuinely shocked at the Harold reveal towards the end. I Can't help the feeling that somebody important is going to die really soon.  The team is getting way too comfortable for it to continue operating unabated.   I hope I'm wrong but all signs seem to be pointing to Finch.

 

That final scene between Elias and Dominic seemed to be a passing of the torch type scene.  I figure that the brotherhood will likely wind up taking out Elias and crew. The brotherhood may seem like a nickel and dime outfit, but they are dangerous. Deceptively smart, Nihilistic and ahead of  where most groups are in terms of their knowledge of team machine.

[atua]

It is huge indeed. Which is why it would royally piss me off if that conversation remained in off-screenville.

I don't think TPTB will skip this, it's way too juicy. We'll see the scene in a flashback when the time is right.

 

That final scene between Elias and Dominic seemed to be a passing of the torch type scene.  I figure that the brotherhood will likely wind up taking out Elias and crew. The brotherhood may seem like a nickel and dime outfit, but they are dangerous. Deceptively smart, Nihilistic and ahead of  where most groups are in terms of their knowledge of team machine.

I see Elias and The Brotherhood as a kind of proxy for Team Machine and Decima/Samaritan. Not to imply Elias is in any way good per se, but Elias for all his flaws, plays by a code; he values loyalty, respect and generally keeps his word. The Brotherhood is darwinian and nihilistic, the end justifies the means. And whilst keeping Dominic's role as the head of The Brotherhood a secret can be advantageous, that strength can also be a weakness as Sameen proved. Only a few people even know who the head of The Brotherhood is. If someone takes out those people & Dominic, would the rest of the organisation even know if someone impersonates him afterwards? If the imposter keeps the rest in line with fear and runs their operation smoothly, would they even care? They never knew and had no personal loyalty to him in the first place. Edited November 2, 2014 by atua