Best Coach? It Ain't That Easy...

[Kromm]

We have discussions like this in a bunch of different threads (often the individual coach threads and episode threads), so here's one place to try and consolidate.

 

Let's try and hit this up from all angles.  Not only "who is best to help win the show", but also "who is best for the singer's long term career", "who is best for their genre" and any other possible interpretations.  

 

We can also talk theory vs. reality (what a coach COULD do vs. what they actually do or probably will, for example). And with some coaches we can talk about what they HAVE (or have not) done for past contestants and with others we can only speculate about what they might do for current and future ones.  Clearly because of that there's some room for interpretation here.

 

Also, lets be inclusive of former coaches too.  With them we can talk about what they MIGHT have done for contestants (even if they didn't actually).  Also, none of this needs to be exclusive to winners.  Blake Shelton, for example, did a post-show duet with Dia Frampton on her album, even though she only placed second (not that any of it helped her long-term career beyond that first year or so after the show--she got her solo album with Universal, then they tossed her off the label almost immediately after it came out).

[Padma]

Great idea! First, I actually like all the coaches as personalities (depending on the night with Adam), but have problems with some of the coaching decisions.

 

The two worst coaching moves, to me, were from Adam: (1) egging on the Tony Lucca v. Christina antagonism, and (2) the awful comment when Amber was saved by a viewer vote, "I hate this country."

 

Other than that, it's kind of "Should coaches be helping to brand them for their later career" or be 'trying to showcase their talent (and the coach's "Svengali-effect') for the show without much concern for the singer's long-term career?"

 

Personally, I favor the first one, even if a singer doesn't last as long on the show. At least having the coach give the -choice- to perform in your genre would be important to me, if I were on The Voice. I think Blake's the best at this (aided by matching him up with country singers), but I have high hopes for Pharrell.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Padma

[Kromm]

There are so many directions we can go in looking at this.

 

In actual practice, Blake has done the most for his contestants--both in terms of show wins AND hooking them up in the industry.  The question is.., with the very notable exception of country contestants, would that necessarily HAVE to be the case?  The best Blake could do for Dia, for example, was a crappy duet for her album, that did nothing for her career, and a few cameo appearances at his concerts that totally bored his core audience at those. So if you AREN'T country and aren't pinning hopes on winning the entire show, then Blake wouldn't seem to be that great a choice.  Adam would seem to be the man in most cases--unless you are an R&B/Urban artist, and then Pharell (or before him Usher, or before him Cee-Lo before he totally immolated his own career earlier this year) would have SEEMED to be the best choice.

 

In actuality Adam doesn't seem to be that great a choice though.  While he may give a decent chance of winning the show, a little research doesn't seem to indicate him doing any great favors for his contestants.  Tessanne Chin did get as far as playing the White House (one of those "In Performance at the White House" things--which is a huge gig), but I really don't think Adam had much to do with her getting that.  One problem I see is that Adam is on the show SO much that he's hardly got time for doing the outside gigs that might be usable to boost his contestants.  Blake has the same problem in theory, but seems to make the time for gigs anyway (plus Blake has easy ins to the business for his Country contestants, like dragging them to the Grand Old Opry or to Country Radio Stations or onto some appearance on CMT--whereas Adam's off-show media appearances are with general media outlets that probably aren't as receptive to having Voice contestants dropped on them). One thing which in theory favors picking Adam is that he has his own record label (222 Records).  We've heard him throw that fact out to at least one contestant I think, but he rarely mentions it.  And it's probably a good thing--he's had the label for 2 and a half years now and done nothing with it, other than the soundtrack for one movie (Begin Again--which he co-starred in).  The one artist he HAS signed, Rozzi Crane (note: never appeared on The Voice), has been sitting around under his label for that entire 2 1/2 years seemingly waiting for Adam to get around to her career and actually get her album out.  So would Adam really help someone's post-show career?  Who the hell knows.  It doesn't look like it.

 

With Pharell it will be interesting to see if he gets the chance to do what (as far as I know) Usher didn't (or didn't get the chance to)--drag his contestants to all of the Urban music radio stations, tour events, and introduce them to the industry power people the same way Blake can do with the Country contestants.  But remember, it's not enough just to have the potential access (Usher and Cee-Lo did too), you have to actually be willing to use it.  

 

Gwen?  Poor Gwen.  I'm sure she could drag contestants to any standard pop radio station to do a co-interview and they'd air it.  Not sure how much more she could do past that though.  This is versus Christina and Shakira, who had potential HUGE inroads for any Latino or Latina contestant in a million Spanish language outlets. Which I DO have to admit, if they used to promote their contestants I might not even know they'd done it--this could well have happened and I doubt those of us who don't purvey that stuff would even know it had.  That said, with Christina at least, I always got the sense that the access stopped the moment the cameras went off (then again, I suspect the same could be true to a degree of Adam and Usher at the very least, and hope it's not true of Pharell and his huge Arby's hat).

[Kromm]

As far as the "which Coach actually plays the game" aspect of this question, I have to think more about that.  Blake and his stupid creeping finger annoy me, so it's hard to be fair sometimes looking at him.  I'd say outside of the obvious automatic "in" with Country folk, Adam has the obvious momentum now.  But again, getting on their teams may not always be the best thing for a contestant.  Blake stacking his team with tons of Country folk, for example, inevitably means most of them will go fairly quickly when he's forced to stack them up against each other.  So even here the assumptions about "which Coach is best" may be skewed. We can probably name all the Country Folk Blake got to the later rounds and eventually dragged onto Tour appearances and radio interviews with a bit of research, but numerically there may be a far greater number he ditched because they were too similar and who were never heard from again.  

[Padma]

I'm going to give a point to Blake as a better coach than Adam regardless of genre because he keys in on a simple word or phrase about the artist (whether in his wheelhouse of country music or not) and then repeats it every week. I always have a much better sense of Team Blake as real people than Team Adam, where it always seems more about Adam, including in his critiques.

 

Blake's warmth would also win me over (artists need lots of emotional support! at least I would). It's why CeeLo became such a huge disappointment when he completely and totally checked out. I think you really could call Blake for advice, even if you were negotiating a contract in another genre. (Jake Worthington's comments after a few weeks convinced me that Blake in real life is intentionally even -less- intimidating than he seems on the show). I have the feeling Adam drops his contestants as soon as the cameras turn off (yes, I know the Tony L. bromance was an exception). Unlike Pharrell, Adam's label would be a big negative for me in choosing him as coach. It would be so awkward to win (I'd win, right? He told me I would) and then not sign with him (what winner would want to? His label would go nowhere for you).

Edited October 10, 2014 by Padma

[DownTheShore]

I've always gotten the impression that Blake sees the contestants as people first, and a means to an end second, no matter what he actually says while in the chair.  He seems to understand better how much the contestant making it on his team means to the contestant's whole family, not just to the contestant alone.  I think he's just a more sociable person off-stage.  And I think he does use The Voice as a means to pay-it-forward, more so than the other judges.  Gwen doesn't seem the type to become that invested in the contestants that she'll be following up with them once the show is over; Pharrell I think might be,

[pivot]

I think Blake is the best coach all-around. He has the biggest fanbase on the show and get someone into the finales with just those fans (see Swon Bros, Jake Worthington) and he uses his connections to help contestants out post-show. Look what he did for Gwen Sebastian and I don't think she even made the live shows. His only downside is that his contestants never seem to improve at all throughout the show. I don't know if he just doesn't have the skills to help them or what. But, they exit the show at the same level they started with.

After that I'd say Cee-Lo was good in his earlier seasons. He did that duet with Vikki Martinez that got a lot of airplay and I believe he helped Juliet Simms. Plus, his contestants always got significantly better as the season went on.

I think Usher worked wonders with Michelle Chamuel and Josh to improve them throughout the show. It will be interesting to see how involved he is in their careers post-show. But, his downside is that he gives contestants songs that they just aren't capable of performing leading to them getting kicked off too soon. Bria and that cute guy from season 4 were both given songs that were way out of their range and I think had they been given better songs they would have lasted longer.

Adam has helped some contestants post-show so I'll give him credit for that, but I swear he makes his contestants worse during the show. Judith Hill, Sarah Simmons, Melanie, etc. all got worse throughout the season on this team. I don't know how he does it. And he deserves some serious flack for letting Melanie go on stage with those dancers pretending to row boats. It was 2 years ago and I still remember every second of that performance because it was so bad.

I'd put Shakira and Christina together. Neither one of them helped contestants post-show but I am not sure either one of them have the connections to do much. Christina's career has been in the toilet for years. She can't get a hit song on her own to save her life and Shakira really has no connections on the American English side. She also struggled to get her songs airplay with this last album. If the contestant was singing in Spanish, I think she'd be helpful. Also, both women are pregnant/having kids and have put their careers on the backburner. I just don't think they are all that interested in the industry any longer. However, both of them helped their contestants significantly improve during the course of the season. That's where they both excel. But, they both suck at song choices for their contestants.

[Kromm]

I think Blake is the best coach all-around. He has the biggest fanbase on the show and get someone into the finales with just those fans (see Swon Bros, Jake Worthington) and he uses his connections to help contestants out post-show. Look what he did for Gwen Sebastian and I don't think she even made the live shows. His only downside is that his contestants never seem to improve at all throughout the show. I don't know if he just doesn't have the skills to help them or what. But, they exit the show at the same level they started with.

That last is a good point, and a different meter of Coach quality we haven't talked about yet.  In the strictest sense of being a COACH--in other words someone who's supposed to help someone improve a skillset--Blake kind of sucks.  He's good at the parts that aren't about actual skills--good at the "game" of the show and good at helping their careers (which is based less on anything inherent in him, but in the fact that he HAS connections and unlike the others is perfectly willing to use them).  

He succeeds because he builds on his previous success and gets people who require less actual coaching out of the gate (and again, automatically gets all the country people). And he also has a nose for personalities that will appeal to viewers (which despite this being called "The Voice" matters just as much once people start actually voting).  I mean Mumbly McMubleton is a perfect example of that last.  He's a person built for popular appeal, no matter WHAT he actually sounded like.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Kromm

[pivot]

As far as helping contestants improve I'd say Blake and Adam are the worst and I'd put Shakira and Christina at the top. Usher is 50/50 on helping contestants and Cee-Lo only helped when he was invested in the show. Which didn't happen the last 2 times he was on the show.

[mercfan3]

Hmm..

 

I think best coach, in most cases, really depend on what you want in a coach.

 

Blake gives you the best chance at winning. You will not improve on his team. He will pick safe songs that you are comfortable with and that people will vote for. You will not have incredible performances or "moments"..but you won't go home either. And his safe song picks and built in fanbase means you have a solid support. Also, if you are country..you are going to have a heck of a contact in the music business. (And he seems to help his contestants. ) His faults..if you went on the show to improve, you won't on his team. He also gives terrible pitches. He got the worst overall crop of talent this season, by a longshot, IMO. 

 

Usher..Usher is who you go to if you want to improve. Bria Kelly even improved significantly in the time period she was with him vocally, even if people didn't see it. (Heck, she added a head voice to her arsenol..although Bria is an entirely different can of worms). Everyone has improved in stage presence that has been with him. The biggest difference between him and Blake was that one comment that they made to a young girl. Usher told her he could teach her how to hit a high note. Blake told her she wouldn't have to do anything she was uncomfortable with. So, I do think there's some risk there with going with Usher. He will push people vocally.  I respect Usher a lot because from all accounts, (producers, Carson, his contestants, other peoples contestants..) he goes above and beyond for his contestants. Which, I think, if I were a contestant, I would appreciate a lot. I thought his song picks were significantly better his first season (where they were absolutely fantastic.) Sixth season, he clearly struggled with Bria (for a lot of reasons)..but Josh's were good. His first season though, it was like he was picking great songs to give his performers the best chance they had to have a great performance. The second season it seemed his choices were far more strategic. He learned a bit too much from Blake. As for post Voice, I know he keeps in contact with his top 3 from season 4, and has worked with Michelle some. I don't really know much more past that. I'm not sure any of them, with the exception of maybe Bria, are really people that he could significantly help in the music world. (For various reasons) Like Blake, I also think his pitches are terrible. Really, the only time he's effective is when he flirts. Last season he tried to play the Michelle card (about a 100 times), and didn't even do well with that. 

 

Cee Lo..he phones it in a lot. I think he can be fun when he's excited about a contestant, but what appeals to Cee Lo and what appeals to the audience is not the same thing. I do think he has an ear for talent, with his one chair picks. But his pitches are terrible, to the point where Adam and Christina feel like they have to advocate for him. I'll give him credit in that apparently he has kept in contact with every single one of his former contestants..(according to him.) If that's true. That is pretty cool of him. 

 

Christina..Christina's song picks are interesting to me. She makes fantastic choices early on. But especially in season 5, it seemed like as she gets nervous she goes back to her old standby's..turning both Jacquie and Matt into old school R&B singers/divas. Unfortunately, I also think she has the opposite effect of Blake..in that if you are on her team, you are at a disadvantage. She becomes more unlikable as the season progresses. (Things become all about her..she comes off fake.). As a Jacquie fan, I remember thinking she was costing Jacquie votes by not shutting up. But she does coach. She clearly works with staging, thinks strategically about songs (even if it's bad strategy) and is probably the best vocal coach there, even if we don't see it during the show. (Take a look at Jacquie's massive improvement post show. And her comments have been that Christina showed her what she was capable of, she just needed to be more consistent.) I agree with the above, in that I'm not sure she's in the best position to help post show. Her pitches are fine too, not extraordinary..but not as bad as Usher, Blake, or Cee Lo. 

 

Shakira is my favorite personality on the show. And it's not close. She's adorable and funny and she puts the guys in her place. I actually always thought her pitches were pretty good too. Her biggest problem is..unless you are a latin artist, why would you go on her team? She doesn't even live in America, how's she going to help? At least Christina has taken Jacquie out..She doesn't have a voters advantage (in fact, it's a disadvantage) so not only can she not help you post show, she can't help you win when she's on the show. I haven't quite seen much vocal improvement from her contestants, but I have seen a lot of improvement in stage presence. It's too bad Tess from last season couldn't have lasted longer, because I think she would have shown a lot of improvement there. So overall, Shakira's just not a coach you pick because of circumstances..not what she actually does. 

 

Adam..the most controversial of the coaches we've seen. His contestants are always the most entertaining. I think you grow if you are on Adam's team because he pushes you. You sing outside your box. Amber would not have had those performances had she been on Team Blake...but then again, maybe Christina Grimmie wins or comes in second if his song picks were just a little more in the box. He's obviously the best of the bunch at selling himself to the talent. But I don't think anyone really improves vocally or stage presence wise by what he teaches..(It's simply that if you push yourself you get better..and he forces that..he's not like Usher or Christina who actually teach their contestant different things..) I think he's like Christina too, in that he'll keep in touch with his favorites, post show. I think even though Tony isn't on his label any longer, they keep in touch. Him and Melanie keep in touch, him and Amber keep in touch, and him and Grimmie keep in touch. I'd be willing to bet he still keeps in touch with James, too. 

 

Pharrell and Gwen?

 

Pharrell, I think has the potential to be the best coach, period. You know he can spot talent. You know he understands what sells and what is current (so we will get song choices similar to that of Usher's in season 4)..and you know, he's Pharrell and can take a contestant into the world of popular music and sell them. He could potentially help them significantly. His pitches aren't great, but there is something so loveable and genuine about Pharrell that I can see how he can win people over. (Plus, he's Pharrell..so there's that.) Vocally? I'm not sure if he'll know how to help, given he's not a great vocalist himself. On the other side, he understands music..so that'll be interesting to see. 

 

Gwen, I'm not sure she can help vocally either. Although sometimes people who aren't the great of vocalists understand it better. (Granted, Christina and Usher are the best vocal teachers on this show, IMO..and they are the best singers..). But I think, like Shakira, she can really help someone with their stage presence. Anita, will be very interesting to watch because she's extremely talented, but that's what she needs the most (confidence and stage presence.) I also think, as much as people hate it..she's right about the looks..you don't have to be stereotypical, but your look is quite often your brand..and if Gwen is willing to put effort into that, it's something some other coaches might want to look into a bit more..because it will count. (Granted, if she dresses them anything like she dressed the Idol girls, her contestants are in trouble.) I think her pitches are fine..similar to Christina. She talks about herself (like Christina) and the experience she's had. She throws some zingers out there. Plays the girl card. In fact, it's almost like Christina told her what to do. 

[Kromm]

That's a good analysis, mercfan3. I only have one major disagreement--that Gwen has the ability to teach stage presence.  I MIGHT have concluded that myself pre-season, but if her "I'm Just A Girl" demonstration was any indication... she's lost quite a bit of her stage presence from her glory days.  I mean it was just dreadful and forced and kind of clueless in terms of how an actual audience would react (in this case to a song that nobody under 40 probably even remembers).  And her pitches are a kind of mini-demo of her current stage presence (in)ability too.  Her pitches are godawful--and it's not just the lack of original ideas in them, but a seeming inability to connect sincerely to people.  The only times I've believed her at all this season is during the more candid moments, when the Coaches are just chatting--and THEN I feel I like her again because she seems genuinely enthusiastic and appreciative in them.  But not when she's actually on the spot doing her main job on the show.

[mercfan3]

Her stage presence was fantastic when she performed last season. I mean, gonna have to agree to disagree about her pitches. Also..the whole under 40 thing, sorry..No Doubt is not that old. Anyone between the age of 20-30 probably knows a majority of their songs. She's got the same age group as Usher, Shakira, and Christina. 

 

also, one more note about "The look," even though Gwen is the only one that comes right out and says it, both Blake and Usher have been cited as taking part in that too. (Blake makes sure the girl's aren't too sexy, Usher uses looks for branding.) 

Edited October 11, 2014 by mercfan3

[ToxicUnicorn]

As far as helping contestants improve I'd say Blake and Adam are the worst and I'd put Shakira and Christina at the top.

 

I disagree about Blake.  I think he helped Cole, the Swon Brothers, and Danielle improve noticeably.  Especially Cole.  I also remember him saying to someone to tone the runs down and keep it simple, and god bless him, he enforces it.  He lives by it, too, and he consistently impresses me with how powerful he is when he does.  I think Blake is the best at coaching his people to convey the lyrics and mood of the song.  He may not have many fancy vocal tricks up his sleeve but many of his contestants (although not his winners, in my opinion) learned how to deliver a song with punch.  I even had to admire how Ray went all out in his later performances, and swamp blues (or whatever that was) is definitely not my thing.   

 

I would never pick Adam as a coach because I think his song choices are all about him and his tastes and the image he wants to deliver.  He wants to be known as the coach who "challenges" his contestants.  I think he sinks them.  Amber did well despite his choices, as did Will.  One of the reasons Tessanne won, I think, was because Adam respected her enough to give her some say in her songs.  But by far, the worst part of Adam's coaching is that he encourages runs and vocal flourishes.  I think that is the worst advice possible and it absolutely ruined Javier for me.  One of the reasons I loved James Wolpert's Case of You song is that all of those tricks were notably absent; I still hardly believe Adam had anything to do with that song.

 

I don't have much impression of Usher or CeeLo or Shakira's skills.  Usher had wonderful chemistry with Michelle, but I can't say that I could see much improvement in her.  She was pretty good already.  I also thought Josh was great at the beginning, although I'm glad he lost the hat.  CeeLo was a perfect fit with that loud squatter in the first season (Vicki?), but I can't remember him doing well by anyone else.  I'm not a fan of Shakira's style of singing and I am still unhappy with her song choices for Garrett, so she is not a favorite.  Gwen looks as though she will be somewhere in this pack.

 

Christina coaxed a few great performances out of Matthew and Kristin, but then something happened with Matthew.  Seems to me that she could have had that season in the bag with Matthew.  I thought she also encouraged all the worst parts of Jacquie's performances and didn't nurture the one part of Jacquie's voice (the part that CeeLo said made her sound like she had swallowed an old woman).

 

Pharrell?  Expectations are high.  We'll see if he meets them.

[tmelange]

I think Blake is underrated. There's a lot to be said for a coach who can put a contestant at ease and teach him or her how to relax, keep it simple, and give a great performance. I think Adam's contestants are on a high wire with his "me me me" song choices, and I think Usher's contestants can be equally frazzled because his expectations for what they can do are his expectations for himself. I like all of the coaches except CeeLo, who I never got to see in his better seasons. Even Adam I love to hate. 

[Noreaster]

I was going to ignore this topic but thought I'd share the following for those who may not be familiar with how the show works.  

 

Through the early rounds, the coaches really don't spend that much time with the contestants.  It's something like 30-60 minutes a week which really isn't that much considering some of it is trying to film some good stuff for the cameras.  

 

There are a lot of people working behind the scenes.  Vocal coaches, stylists, choreographers, etc. These are the people the contestants work with the most.

 

It's questionable how involved the coaches really are in song selection and if that's changed over time.  Producers were always somewhat involved of course.  But I feel that song choices have gotten more boring over the past couple of seasons and am starting to think that the coaches are getting less say.  In my opinion, Usher's season 6 and Adam's season 5 song choices in the lives were really lackluster compared to their song choices in prior seasons.  

 

I personally think the whole idea that contestants "grow" on this show is a joke.  Reality TV is an artificial environment where they are churning stuff week in week out.  "Growth" is largely the contestants adapting better to the game.  Sure, there is probably some actual improvement in the younger contestants who lack much experience and can't help but get better.  But many of the others are seasoned musicians. Attributing growth to coaching skills is a facade that the show itself obviously tries to push.

 

There are a bunch of little data points here and there on what coaches do to help contestants after the show is over.  I've read enough over the seasons to conclude that it varies a lot, even within teams. Personally, I think a contestant should just think about getting as much exposure on the show as possible.  All that other stuff, which most likely won't happen, is gravy.  

 

Finally, when it comes to music, there is just so much stuff based on personal tastes.  Some might like hearing familiar material done extremely well.  Others might like hearing contestants put their own spins even when not done perfectly.  Some care mainly about vocal ability.  Some stage presence.  Certain genres are more appealing.  There are even all those non-music factors that come into play on these reality shows like personalities, back stories, and coach/contestant relationships.  So much stuff that have nothing to do with coaching and more about personal preference, that I find it hard to play the "best coach" game myself.  

[Kromm]

There are a bunch of little data points here and there on what coaches do to help contestants after the show is over.  I've read enough over the seasons to conclude that it varies a lot, even within teams. Personally, I think a contestant should just think about getting as much exposure on the show as possible.  All that other stuff, which most likely won't happen, is gravy.  

"Likely won't happen" doesn't seem to gel with the reality, at least when it comes to being in the top 3 or 4 and being on Blake's team.  Now the ability and willingness of Blake to put you on the stage of the Grand Ole Opry, for example, of course depends on you being a Country Artist (and he won't bother for anyone other than a top contender), but it does seem to be a fairly reliable progression IF you go into being on his team knowing you fit the criteria (Country) and then being lucky or good enough to stick around till the later rounds.  

 

Stuff like popping up on people's radio shows with the Coach is a big one too.  I really do wonder (because it's probably pretty hard to collect this data) how often it's happened.  I'm SURE it's happened with Blake.  It's the other Coaches I have no idea about.  

 

Mind you, in many ways I'm not a fan of Mr. Creeping Finger, but in this one way--again if you happen to fit his criteria--it seems pretty easy to say he's going to help you.

[Padma]

Great point upthread about Blake being underrated because I agree completely that his attitude about singing the notes cleanly and minimizing (or, depending on the song, completely eliminating the runs) has led to much improvement in many singers. He is the only coach who pushes that and, like the person who mentioned it above, I thank him every season for it. I can't wait to see if he can get the message through to a couple who are already on his team (I think the...Venezuelan? woman was one who will improve right away if she listens).

 

So ITA that people can and do grow on his team. I listened to "Timber" the other day and greatly prefer his version with Danielle to the pros, with him just singing harmony for her--the opposite of Adam's duets). He's not flashy and downplays his musicality, but he has good advice and I do think many of his contestants have grown by following it.

 

I think Usher was a very good coach and also psyched out the show, coming up with a unique persona for himself as a coach (more psychological approach than the others, also more "physicality"--both, like actual sports coaches sometimes do.) I was interested that Pharrell often texted song suggestions to him; and that makes me hopeful that Pharrell will prove CeeLo-like in that regard. Maybe also bring some creativity to the staging which has been sorely lacking.  (CeeLo did help one of my favorites, Nakia, become a better performer. Other than that, I think he could have done more but just didn't care enough to try. Maybe his ego took too big a hit by being most everyone's last choice.)

 

Plus, at least right now, Pharrell doesn't seem as intimidatingly demanding as Usher (whom I was impressed by but would never have chosen as a coach unless I had supreme confidence in my talent. He is a hard-driving perfectionist! Much too much pressure every week--then showing it all on television! Michelle and Josh rose to the challenge, but a lot of people might crack under pressure on Team Usher.)

 

Expectations are high for Pharrell. He promises to be NotAdam and check his ego at the door, making it all about the contestant instead. He -may- have a far more extensive knowledge of music than the others (i.e. NotBlake). He's not the greatest singer, but he has co-coach Alicia Keys, and also may embody the old saying, "Those that can't do, teach." He may understand more about it, as a producer.  And he may even give Gwen a run for it in the area of staging and stage presence.  Plus, he actually -does- have a label that produces hits for others (again, NotAdam) and has promised to stay involved with contestants.  He's the coach I'm really most interested in, even in the battlerounds.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Padma

[Noreaster]

"Likely won't happen" seems like the right way to think about it to me.  Teams start at 12 apiece.  There are a lot more people that Blake hasn't helped than has.  Even if you want to narrow it down to just the country folks. 

[kj4ever]

Her stage presence was fantastic when she performed last season. I mean, gonna have to agree to disagree about her pitches. Also..the whole under 40 thing, sorry..No Doubt is not that old. Anyone between the age of 20-30 probably knows a majority of their songs. She's got the same age group as Usher, Shakira, and Christina. 

 

also, one more note about "The look," even though Gwen is the only one that comes right out and says it, both Blake and Usher have been cited as taking part in that too. (Blake makes sure the girl's aren't too sexy, Usher uses looks for branding.) 

My nephew is 29 and his first concert was No Doubt.  I took him and 4 of his friends.  They were big when he was in junior high/high school so yeah, the under 40 set definitely know them.  In fact he has never watched The Voice before but has watched it this season for Gwen. All those boys had a bit of a crush on her you could say in their formative years.

 

I think all the coaches have their good and bad points.  I agree with what others have said here that Blake downplays his musical knowledge.  As someone who has been working towards an entertainment career since he was a kid you know he's had voice coaching and all that jazz.  I actually love his voice, I just hate his songs/type of music.  I love his duet with Christina, and his duet with Usher from the benefit is one of my most played songs on my iPod.  If he ever got away from the chew tobacco chew tobacco spit crap I'd probably really love him as an artist.

 

Really I think it depends what skills the people need to work on to determine which coach.  I totally agree with Blake making them better by cutting down on the unnecessary runs and bullshit people put into music, but then again that is personal choice.  If you are younger or have nerves I think Blake is good at making you feel safe which would be priceless for people that have problems in that area.

 

Usher is good at pushing people out of their comfort zone vocally, but he tends to have more faith in some then he should (see Josiah).  If you are really gifted with a huge range but don't use it Usher would be awesome for you.  I think he is good at stage presence too.  He also seems really invested in his people.

 

i'd lump Adam and Christina in the same group.  They are so polarizing that while I think they both have strength in helping people vocally, you may get backlash from people who just straight out can't stand them.  They also seem more it's all about me rather than the contestants.  I remember this interview with Adam, Blake, and Christina and the reporter asked who was going to win and Christina was all "ME!" and Adam was like "No, I'm going to win!" and Blake was kind of kicked back while they bantered back and forth, leaned forward and said "My contestant is going to win.  That's the difference between me and them."  Adam and Christina fell silent real quick.  It was classic.

 

If you are one of their favorites though, you got it in the bag.

 

Shakira was sweet and a joy for the TV show, but I think she really kind of sucked as a coach...lol

 

We will have to see what comes from Gwen and Pharrell.  I have huge hopes for Pharrell, and I remember him being really excited as an adviser for Usher.  At one point he said "These people on this show have real talent!" to Usher.

[Kromm]

he may even give Gwen a run for it in the area of staging and stage presence.  

Again, I'm waiting for evidence that Gwen actually still has these skills, and more importantly if so that she's able to teach them.  So far the only evidence we have is years old concert footage of her (I think her last real tour was back in 2007--although No Doubt toured for a short while in 2009) and her saying she can do this in her pitch.

[Padma]

Gwen also has what promises to be the weakest co-coach. I think having her husband helping is very unfortunate in terms of the strengths she needs, but hope I'll be proven wrong.

[mercfan3]

Gwen performed on the show last season, and seemed like her old self. She still has those skills. Second, I don't think it's fair to point to an edited clip of Gwen trying to liven up the crowd to determine that she can't teach stage presence. 

 

I never saw Usher as demanding, meaning he puts a lot of pressure on his contestants. In fact, he was an absolute marshmellow with Bria and Michelle. But I definitely agree that he can sometimes think his contestants can do more than they are actually capable of doing. Josiah is probably the biggest example of that. But this also goes back to the "I can teach you how to do something.." and he probably does teach them. But then when it's live, and there's pressure, the contestant probably returns to their old tricks. I think he's also actually a physical learner. And probably when contestants aren't like that, he might not be as useful. 

 

With Blake, I do agree that he can help when it comes to taste. But I really don't know that he helps contestants improve in a technical way, vocally. Or at least I haven't heard it. Or maybe the better word is challenged..I'm not sure I've ever heard his contestants challenged. And I think it's important for improvement to be challenged. On the other side, people go onto this competition to win..and Blake knows how to do that better than anyone. He knows how to pick songs people will buy. He knows how to pick songs that his contestants can sing well. He knows how to get people to like his contestants.  I think Usher learned from Blake, and would probably be stiff competition for him that way, if he returns. (We'll see how Pharrell and Gwen do, but my guess is Pharrell has talked to Usher about it.) "I Can't Make You Love Me" was straight out of Blake's playbook. I remember people complaining about it before Josh sung it, but I knew it was going to likely be a top 10, if Josh could sing it well. (And he obviously was going too.) It would just be nice if Blake would challenge his artists a little and every once in a while pick a "Stay with Me."

[kj4ever]

Blake is good at playing the game from his chair too. He pointed out over and over that Judith was a professional.  He said it every time she sang on the show, albeit in a nice way, but he knew what he was doing.  He knew people were bothered by her experience and he pointed it out every chance he got.  I don't think it's fair since the show doesn't have rules against people like Judith being on the show, but we as humans do like to see that little person like ourselves rise to the top and win.

[mercfan3]

LOL, I'm pretty sure he called Judith a "diva" and Danielle an "all american girl" in the same episode. It was confirmation Blake knew exactly what he was doing. 

[Padma]

Yes, that wasn't his best moment, imo, but I still think his comment, affectionately delivered and repeated, "You're such a diva" was meant more as a compliment, like, "You really own this competition, you're that good". Maybe I'm being naïve, but I don't remember him negatively branding anyone else, and I really think he doesn't always know the full connotations of some popularly used words.

[Cramps]

Blake is dumb as a fox. And Adam was so self absorbed he didn't even think to counter it, which he could have.

I loved when Blake made his own Diva contestant last season (blanking on her name) stop doing runs and start doing rock songs you wouldn't expect her to cover. I actually began voting for her since I loved her voice doing that style of music.

[ErinD]

I do commend the coaches who help their artists even after the show but imho, why should that even be a basis for a good coach? I mean, I don't expect my teachers to find a job for me. Nor do I expect a basketball coach find a professional basketball team for his player. That's what scouts are for. If a coach did his best in preparing his members then those scouts are the ones who'd scramble to recruit said members. Blake has the advantage on this basis since he's in country music solely and a household name at that. I think he doesn't even have to help his artists after the show, they'd succeed regardless. 

As for the actual coaching, I think Pharrell and Adam do well. Pharrell simply guides his artists while letting them think for themselves. Also, he's a great producer. I loved the arrangements he did in the show. Adam pushes his members and I think that's good too because one would not grow without being pushed to their limits. I actually learned the most from Adam by just watching the show. Like even when you're just doing a cover, you can make it your own by simply changing the way you sing it. Changing the way you sing it changes where the emphasis is and changes how you connect with people. And he knows how to capture the audience and he teaches that to his members. He is also very informative with regards to music, he knows a wide variety of genre and he plays multiple instruments and he knows when to change the arrangement of a song and when not to. 

As for the other coaches, I agree with what's already been said here. So with all that said, the best coach for me would be Adam. 

[hincandenza]

I dunno... if we take the "extracurricular" part out for any post-show help, that seems unfairly limiting.  I mean, if we considered coaching solely by what happens on the show, then the best coach would be measured by wins- ergo, Blake.  You could make a somewhat similar case for Adam, in pushing his people to go further than the other coaches do.  I haven't done the math though, but it seems ever since they adopted the team-agnostic elimination such that some coaches don't get to the finale, Adam has had people last longer on average.

 

I think that's what it has to boil down to: a coach who tends to (through song choice and/or coaching) help their artists to last longer.  Since only one person can win each year (and that usually means... nothing to the winner) then the best you can hope as a contestant is a coach that helps you get as much exposure as possible during your time, to hopefully springboard your music career to whatever the next level is. 

 

However, whatever Adam's record on the show, Blake can't be far off, and also seems to have the best track record on post-show assistance: getting mini-tour gigs as openers, radio appearances, etc.  And if I were auditioning, that would weigh heavily, regardless of the show.

 

Then again, you could plan and strategize and practice for months, get more than one chair turn, pick your dream coach, make it all the way to the final Knockout round... and still end up like poor Rebekah Samarin.

[TheGreenKnight]

As far as winning the show, I'd say Blake is the best coach. Not just because he commands the largely older audience that watches TV shows like this, but because he tends to help the contestants make good song choices to make it to the end (even if I don't always like them).

 

As far as actually getting something after the show, I'd say Blake and Christina. Blake has done what he can to help so many of his contestants (Danielle, Cassadee, Xenia, etc.) including promotion and taking them on tour, and Chris Mann managed to get an album/special unlike the winners. Jacquie also got some music deal that people were talking about was great for her, although I can't remember the details. I'm not sure if those two owe those opportunities to Christina's help or not, but it seems likely. I really wish Javier had been on her team all those years ago (and won). Adam seems as if he's only there to win and who cares after the show's over. Not sure about Gwen, Usher, and Pharrell as yet. I know Cee Lo also helped some of his contestants after the show, though not to much success, sadly.

[Noreaster]

There's no question that Blake has helped his contestants the most after the show is over.  However, it's worth noting that his efforts are mainly with the country contestants. Take away the country people, and Blake's track record is not much different (or could be worse, I'm not sure) than the other coaches. Other coaches have in fact toured or collaborated with some contestants. Including Adam (I believe he has toured with Javier Colon and Tony Lucca, signed or offered to sign some of his contestants to his record label, etc). 

 

So I say, everyone should just pick the coach with whom he/she fits best.  Including the country contestants where Blake makes the most sense anyway for on-show reasons. The goal should be maximizing exposure. The longer one stays in the competition, the more likely it is anyway that he/she will build some sort of relationship with the coach and receive post-show help. But don't count on that last bit.  

Edited December 23, 2014 by Noreaster

[Noreaster]

By the way, here are the stats (based on wikipedia) on the coaches' track records on the show. Obviously Blake has won more times.  But in terms of maximizing exposure, depending on where you want to draw the line (finalist, semifinalist, certain # of live rounds, etc), Adam is the same or better.  Actually Adam has been really strong in recent seasons.  

 

Winner

Season 1: Adam (Javier Colon)

Season 2: Blake (Jermaine Paul)

Season 3: Blake (Cassadee Pope)

Season 4: Blake (Danielle Bradbery)

Season 5: Adam (Tessanne Chin)

Season 6: Usher (Josh Kaufman)

Season 7: Blake (Craig Wayne Boyd)

Cumulative: Blake 4, Adam 2, Usher 1

 

Finalists (Top 3 or 4): the contestants who got maximum exposure

Season 3: Blake 2, Adam 0, Christina 0, Cee Lo 1
Season 4: Blake 2, Adam 0, Shakira 0, Usher 1

Season 5: Blake 0, Adam 2, Christina 1, Cee Lo 0

Season 6: Blake 1, Adam 1, Shakira 0, Usher 1

Season 7: Blake 1, Adam 3, Gwen 0, Pharrell 0

Cumulative: Blake 6, Adam 6, Others 4

 

Contestants to have made it one round past Top 8 (either Top 6 or Top 5)

Season 3: Blake 2, Adam 2, Christina 0, Cee Lo 2
Season 4: Blake 3, Adam 1, Shakira 1, Usher 1
Season 5: Blake 1, Adam 3, Christina 2, Cee Lo 0
Season 6: Blake 1, Adam 2, Shakira 1, Usher 1
Season 7: Blake 1, Adam 3. Gwen 1, Pharrell 0
Cumulative: Blake 8, Adam 11, Others 9

 

Contestants making it to Top 8

Season 3: Blake 2, Adam 2, Christina 1, Cee Lo 3
Season 4: Blake 3, Adam 3, Shakira 1, Usher 1
Season 5: Blake 2, Adam 3, Christina 2, Cee Lo 1
Season 6: Blake 3, Adam 3, Shakira 1, Usher 1
Season 7: Blake 1, Adam 3. Gwen 2, Pharrell 2
Cumulative: Blake 11, Adam 14, Others 15

Edited December 23, 2014 by Noreaster

[Kromm]

 Including Adam (I believe he has toured with Javier Colon and Tony Lucca, signed or offered to sign some of his contestants to his record label, etc). 

A record label he's ignored so much (between touring and endlessly being on The Voice) that even his one pre-existing artist's album still hasn't come out, after 3 years or so.

[Noreaster]

The point is that Adam has tried to help some contestants. 

[ErinD]

Yes, Blake and Adam do help their artists after the show. Perhaps the other coaches do too, who knows. The point is, why should we expect them to? They have their own careers and lives to live. We shouldn't be so selfish as to put the burden on them when the music industry isn't so easy to be in. And Blake is the only one who has it easy after the show because as been mentioned, he's solely in the country music and he has a huge impact there. Besides, country fans are loyal so not much help from Blake is actually needed. Also, even though the contestants are not superstars now, who knows what'll happen some time in the future? Not every superstar has a fairy tale story.

I agree with hincandenza on the fact that there will only be one winner so the best the other contestants could do is to get to the furthest they could in the show. The longer they stay, the more training, exposure, and connections they'd acquire. Experience is the best teacher after all.

[Sammich63]

I agree that Blake does help his country artists.  He also took both Dia and Xenia on tour with him after season 1, so he doesn't always help just his country artists.  However, I see no support from Blake for either Jermaine (who shouldn't have beat out Juliet in the first place), Cole or Jake.   It is interesting to see the track record for Adam over the seasons.  I still don't care for his personality at all and I wish he would take a break, but I will go on record as saying that Chris Jamison was the most improved contestant this past season. He wasn't a blip on my radar until the past two weeks.  I don't know if the screaming girls in the audience played a part in Chris's rise to the top, but he sure came on strong at the end. 

Edited December 23, 2014 by Sammich63

[TheGreenKnight]

A record label he's ignored so much (between touring and endlessly being on The Voice) that even his one pre-existing artist's album still hasn't come out, after 3 years or so.

Which is the main reason I don't consider it "helping." I still say Adam is the worst coach to choose, on and off the show. He might get you exposure through to the finale, but he might have given you an image/sound that you don't feel represents you to make it there. Not to mention the likelihood he'll discard you if he thinks you won't help him get to the end. Compare this to Blake with someone like Sisaunda, a type of singer he had little experience with, but still tried his best to help without changing her.

[facingfacts]

even if rozzi has not yet released her album she has been working non stop for the past two years, constantly opening for maroon 5 and she'll also open for them in 2015 as well as for gavin rossdale. She has also performed at other high profile events

it's the same as melanie and raelynn who are starting to see success 2 years later after the show. I believe any of the voice contestants would jump at the chance to open for a band like rozzi seeing as m5 have taken her under their wing & are helping her

[hammaboo]

I've often wondered how the contestants would fare, say if the coaches got their initial teams, but in the knockout and battle "weeks" there was a coaching swap.  Say Blake's team spent some time with Christina and her team spent time with him. Because those two as a coaching team could be a powerhouse - him with being able to relax and bring out the ability in some contestants and her with the vocal teaching that some of his contestants could benefit from. 

 

If you were going to do that though, I'd think they would have to go to a 2/2 male/female coaching staff to make it seem well balanced.

[FrancesL]

 I think that Blake is the best coach for young country artists, but a terrible coach outside that genre. And this rule applies both before and after the voice.

 

I think that Adam is the best coach for most other genres and even if they don't win, his contestants often go far in the competition. He also pushes contestants outside their zone of comfort, and as a result, has managed to transform contestants that I would have dismissed into a formidable stage presence. I think the best examples were Amber Carrington, Chris Jamison and even Will Champlain to a certain extent (he may not have gelled as well with Adam,  but I think he learned a lot from Adam about stage presence),  But I also think he was the perfect match for  contestants like Amanda Brown, Javier  Colon and Melanie Martinez. I like that he makes contestants take risks, but the downside is that it sometimes backfires..  Ultimately, the vast majority of memorable performances have come from Adam's team. I don't think he's been as successful as Blake with helping contestants after the show, but I also think that Blake is in an easier position to do so within his genre.  Anyway,  if I were a contestant in any non-country genre, I would go with Adam. The cons of being on his team is that he sometimes has problems with song selection and he's also a bit of a control freak in that regard, which is probably frustrating for some contestants.

 

Usher is also a very good coach and with time, I might even say he's the best coach. He's shown that he does a very good job with R&B  and pop artists (e.g.Michelle and Josh). Outside of this genre, I don't know yet. I also think that like Adam, he pushes his contestants and gives them very good pointers. He ranks behind Adam, only because I still think that the most memorable performances have come from Adam's team.

 

Shakira: Of all the female coaches, she was my  favorite in terms of personality and I love the way she interacted with the other coaches. She's feisty, but not petty, which I like. Unfortunately, as a coach she was very disappointing and had some of the worst song choices in the history of the voice. 

 

Christina: I think for female power singers into pop music, Christina is a good coach. However, outside that genre, I don't think she does a good job and I think she tends to throw a lot of contestants under the bus. She's been the recipient of some of the best R&B contestants on the show (much better than Damien), but they rarely make the top 12 and her team and frequently, there will be situations where contestants like Dez Duron advance beyond a much better R&B vocalist. . In terms of contestant selection, I can usually predict who she'll chose, because she tends to be attracted to a certain look and personality, and most of the times, I disagree with her choices.  I think if you're an alternative, indie, R&B singer or country singer,  I would avoid Christina's team, ( which doesn't leave much). If you're a contestant who doesn't fit the typical mold for your genre (like Matthew Shuler), I would avoid Christina, because she won't know what to do with you. Contestants like Aquile or Matthew Shuler, would  have fared much better on Usher or Adam's team. 

 

Pharell and Gwen: I lump both of them together, because they both had problems associated with being new to the scene, so it's hard to rank them. Gwen had an excellent eye for contestants with potential, whereas Pharell made some of the most bizarre contestant choices.  They also both had issues with song choices, although, Luke Wade on Pharell's team actually had some of the best performances before he choke.  I also give Gwen a lot of credit for helping Craig with his onstage image and I liked a number of her earlier song choices. I think that Anita would have gone further, with better advice, which  was my main disappointment with Gwen. Ultimately, even though neither coach did very well, they get a pass because it was their first year. I think I'd be happy to see both of them return. Also, Pharell has a history of helping a lot of new artists, so with the right contestant, he might be in the best position to help these artists after the Voice. 

 

Cee lo: I think that Cee Lo was the most underrated as a coach. Of all of the coaches, he had the best eye for talent and had some of the most interesting contestants. He was also the most creative. Some of the best contestants have been on his team, like Vicci Martinez, Juliette Sims and Nicholas David and I loved what he did with Kat. The problem is that his taste doesn't match with that of most viewers. Also, since he didn't spend as much time coaching, the less experienced contestants tended to struggle. Also, despite his sleazy tendencies during the blind auditions, it was clear that looks never played a role in his selection of contestants. In fact, he was far less likely to choose a contestant based on looks than most of the other coaches, which I liked.  But as a contestant, he was a risky choice, unless you gelled with him well. 

 

In summary, I think that Adam is the best coach, followed closely by Usher,. Unless you're a country artist, and then Blake would be the best coach. It pains me to say this, but I think Shakira is the worst coach. The remaining coaches, CeeLo, Christina, Gwen and Pharell are harder to evaluate, but fall somewhere between Usher and Shakira. 

Edited January 31, 2015 by FrancesL

[ToxicUnicorn]

The contenders for best coach, for me, are Gwen, Blake, and Adam.  Gwen improved her contestants all around: song choice, delivery, look, staging, and she had good strategic moves.  She didn't alienate me, in fact, she won me over when I was not predisposed to like her.  The only issue I have with Gwen is her pitch at the blind auditions.  That was pretty weak, but Christina was awful at this at the beginning, as well.

 

I love Blake's insistence on delivering a song with the essentials pinned down, no extraneous garbage, and the idea that it is important to connect with the audience.  I still don't believe that Danielle connected with anyone or with any of her songs, so she is his biggest failure to date, but I would guess he tried to help her improve even after the show.  There's no question her vocals were pure and she felt supported by Blake, though.  I agree with others that Blake's song choices can be boring and out-dated, but I have never felt that they were very controversial or outside of someone's range or plain out of left field.  It's a safe strategy, but I really can't complain about that too much.

 

As much as I've had issues with Adam in previous seasons, I think his song choices are by far the most interesting.  In that sense, he makes the show exciting and gives his contestants a chance at making an impression.  Having said that, he has chosen some real clunkers.  I grew to like James Wolpert, but Adam kept stretching him too far and I got very annoyed that Adam wouldn't change that strategy.  That was stupid.  I was really mad at Adam for not choosing Will that season, as well.  He does seem to put friendship above talent more than anyone else and, as a viewer, it's irritating because the show is too short for that to pay off.  His judgment is questionable - when he fell over himself for that duo, I thought he was nuts.  He also mishandled Javier, Judith Hill and the ex-mouseketeer.  That's a lot of talent to waste.

 

On the plus side, Adam did choose Katrina and Amber to advance, and they were some of my favorites.  So, while I disagree with him a lot, I have to give him props every now and then.

 

I think Usher was highly overrated as a coach when he had Michelle.  I think Michelle herself had a tremendous amount to do with her own success.  I also think his song choices, more or less, are worse than even Blake's.  Blech.  He is a charming, charismatic and unusual coach, though, and I love what he did with Josh.  Josh's run is the most perfect path to a win that I can see.  Hard to tell if that was because of Usher or not, but I'm willing to put him fourth.

 

I would rank the rest Christina, Shakira, Pharell, and CeeLo.  If I could think rationally about this, I might put CeeLo farther up, but I can't stand that he let Caroline Pennell down.  She was one of my favorites.

[nextian]

So I'm not sure where to put this but I just wanted to comment on how many Team Blake members were at the Academy of country music awards Sunday night. Gwen Sebastian(S2) sings back up for both Blake and Miranda, so she was on stage twice. Nicole Galyon (S3, I think) wasn't there (home with a new baby) but won song of the year for Automatic which she wrote with Miranda and Natalie Hemby. The Swon Brothers were presenting. And Cassadee Pope, Danielle Bradberry, RaeLyn and Craig Wayne Boyd were all in attendance too. So none of them may be superstars yet, but Blake has definitely paved the way into country music for many former contestants.

[unknown]

So I'm not sure where to put this but I just wanted to comment on how many Team Blake members were at the Academy of country music awards Sunday night. Gwen Sebastian(S2) sings back up for both Blake and Miranda, so she was on stage twice. Nicole Galyon (S3, I think) wasn't there (home with a new baby) but won song of the year for Automatic which she wrote with Miranda and Natalie Hemby.

 

Nicole  was on Team Adam season 2.

[nextian]

Was she? Cool, thanks I wasn't sure. I knew she was on there somewhere!

[Padma]

So I'm not sure where to put this but I just wanted to comment on how many Team Blake members were at the Academy of country music awards Sunday night. Gwen Sebastian(S2) sings back up for both Blake and Miranda, so she was on stage twice. Nicole Galyon (S3, I think) wasn't there (home with a new baby) but won song of the year for Automatic which she wrote with Miranda and Natalie Hemby. The Swon Brothers were presenting. And Cassadee Pope, Danielle Bradberry, RaeLyn and Craig Wayne Boyd were all in attendance too. So none of them may be superstars yet, but Blake has definitely paved the way into country music for many former contestants.

I noticed that, too. Plus weren't the Swon Brothers nominated as the year's best vocal group (or something)? I thought it was cute in an interview how Blake said he'd have to give up the Voice soon because he was keeping friends with/mentoring half of the people from past Team Blake and it was just getting to be a big big group. He said something like, "I don't know how you can have fun with these people, coach them and enjoy hanging out and then just not have any more contact with them because the show's over."

 

With comments like that--and his well deserved reputation as the coach that does the most for people after the show--I think lots of singers are going to keep choosing him over other coaches that are musically a better fit. Even though his musical knowledge outside of country is pretty sparse, I know I would. 

[waving feather]

I would choose Blake too because he seems like someone who I could hang around comfortably during rehearsals. I believe 90% of the work is done outside of the coaching sessions anyway. So, why not have a nice time during the 10% for the television segments. And he seems like the type of guy that would let me choose my own songs if I insist on it. So win win for me. As for mentoring, he may not have vast musical knowledge but he's usually good at spotting if something feels or sounds wrong. And he's good at up talking or selling his contestants in a genuine way during lives.

Besides Blake, I may also pick Gwen or Usher. Adam or Christina would be my last picks. Heh.

Edited April 21, 2015 by waving feather

[ToxicUnicorn]

From the S08.E20 thread, Noreaster made this really good, thought provoking comment (and fair warning, it provoked me to write the following dreadfully long reply):

 

    I think it's unrealistic to expect coaches to be impartial.  Putting aside the fact that this is still a competition and the coach's main job is to support his/her team, everything is subjective. Tastes vary. It may seem that the coaches are selectively critiquing, but maybe they just find problems with one or two contestants.  Or maybe they reserve their critiques to times when they can actually be constructive rather than just saying something sucks.

 

Yes, tastes are subjective.  But - for crying out loud, the coaches are professionals.  Surely they understand the difference between their own subjective tastes and the criticisms they can make that are OBJECTIVELY technical, and crucial to improve in order to become a more successful vocalist and performer.  I don't see any reason why they couldn't distinguish between both kinds of thoughts.

 

Maybe they could and should self-censor their negative subjective reactions, because that gives the show a more friendly atmosphere.  But, let's face it, ALL of the contestants can improve objectively, or they wouldn't be there.  And I think every coach is able (or should be able) to come up with some constructive, not so subjective comments, ... and they should be able to do it every single time, whether Carson calls on them or not.  That's where I think waving feather really got it right:

the reason people get mad at them for sometimes critiquing a performance is not because of the critique itself but because they don't do it impartially. They will just choose ONE contestant to pick on (like poor Brooke) while blowing rainbows at the rest. So that upsets people and in turn they are afraid to say anything negative at all.

If the coaches are good at what they do, and they're paying attention, then not only should they be capable of separating their opinions/emotions from their knowledge, they should be able to be more even handed about constructive feedback.  For example, I would like to hear them make comments that show their expertise, or breadth of knowledge, or particularly refined taste or experience in choosing and performing songs, and I think the show should push them to do that more.  Too much of the time, the show allows the coaches to get away with meaningless and completely insincere comments.

 

In fact, I've finally figured out the essential issue that bothers me when the coaches give vapid or purely emotional comments.  Here it is.

 

It's that I know they know I know they are being paid very large sums of money and/or are receiving a lot of publicity for being there.  Therefore, they should know that I could reasonably expect that they do and say things of value when they are on the air.  I mean, it's their job.  They should be working.  Even if they're working like dogs behind the scenes, they should also make an effort to let me see them working when I see them.  (That is why many of my favorite moments are when I see the taped bits of their coaching sessions, or watch the surprisingly productive exchanges with the guest mentors.)

 

If they're supposed to be coaching, and I see that they know how to do it when they are not sitting in those red chairs, then it stands to reason they should be able to coach when they are sitting in those red chairs.  And if they can't do it when they are in the red chairs, then really, they're not suitable for the format and they should be replaced --- or they should at least be making a hell of an effort to make it seem as if they know what they are doing.  I mean, that's just the way the work world works, to me.

 

For them to simply sit there (or stand there clapping) and deliver nothing more than non-specific comments that could come from any mouthpiece week after week is irritating at a fundamental level, when I have spent all day working hard for my paycheck and all my adult life trying to figure out how I might be of some unique value on this planet.  I mean, why should they get something for nothing when no one else does?  It's kind of insulting.

 

*rant over*

 

As for being more constructive myself, if I could run the show, I'd want the coaches to be able to act as if they were co-mentoring every single contestant in every single show at the beginning.  Maybe toward the end, when the best have been culled from the herd, it's time to hear more about how this one is fun and that one is a hard worker and how the coaches relate to the contestants as regular humans.  That's fine - someone is going to win and people probably have a pretty good idea of who their favorites are already, so the coaches might as well relax on air because their job is more behind the scenes at that point.  But until they reach that point, I would like the coaches to sound like they're good at what they're supposedly being paid to do when they're asked for their comments.

 

PS My feelings get multiplied about 10x toward people who are supposed to be judges on some other shows which shall remain nameless. 

Edited April 24, 2015 by ToxicUnicorn

[mercfan3]

I think though, that coaches/judges comments are more to direct the audience than to help the contestant. Really, what contestant doesn't know when they mess up, or when they are great? And how much can one or two lines help them? Especially in a show like The Voice, where the whole premise is to get the opportunity to be guided by industry superstars. The couple of hours that Kimberly spends with Xtina is going to help her far more than a comment Adam might make. 

 

So I'm okay with them just being nice overall..because if it's for The Audience's sake, then sometimes judges/coaches can really steer the audience wrong. (Big problem with Idol.) I'll never forget American Idol making like Phillip Phillips was an equal vocalist to Joshua Ledet and Jessica Sanchez. If the judges were equal in praise, instead of downplaying Jessica and overstating how great Phillip was..maybe the audience would make better decisions. (As they do in The Voice, more often than not.) 

[Noreaster]

Maybe they could and should self-censor their negative subjective reactions, because that gives the show a more friendly atmosphere. But, let's face it, ALL of the contestants can improve objectively, or they wouldn't be there. And I think every coach is able (or should be able) to come up with some constructive, not so subjective comments, ... and they should be able to do it every single time, whether Carson calls on them or not.

Here's the thing. Contestants are there to gain exposure. There really isn't an objective way to improve. Sure, most contestants could improve on some technical aspects, but is that actually necessary to deliver a more entertaining performance?

I agree that all the coaches should be able to provide feedback on how the performances could be better. It's all going to be subjective though. We all care about different things...technical aspects, song choice, genre fit, stage presence, range, power, dynamics, stylistic choices (use of runs and ad-libs, how to make a performance "your own"), etc. And sometimes there are those performances that are clearly imperfect, but if they entertain you, then who cares.

The amount of constructive criticism is probably driven somewhat by the producers. The show wants to maintain a positive vibe. Dwelling on problems in the performances might turn off viewers. Why should I waste my time watching talent that the coaches are telling me is not that good? Meanwhile the coaches can't be criticizing other coaches' strategies too much. They have to maintain the premise that these celebrity coaches are all doing a good job helping the contestants grow and improve.

ETA: I think the coaches also don't comment at times when the genres or styles are drastically different from their own preferences. There really isn't much they can offer. Country contestants probably won't get meaningful feedback from most coaches. Blake doesn't say much about non-country performances. I remember earlier in this season, after one of India's performances, Adam mentioned her stylistic choices (which he seemed to not care for but didn't say that outright) and then proceeded to compliment her on her technical skills.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Noreaster

[photo fox]

Hey, all, just a friendly reminder that we have an "American Idol vs. The Voice" topic for comparing the two shows...

Let's try to keep this particular topic more Voice-specific. Thanks!

[kj4ever]

Has there been any mention anywhere for who will coach season 9?