Jump to content
Forums forums
PRIMETIMER
Solid Muldoon

Weapon of Choice

Recommended Posts

But I gotta disagree with you on a halberd as a anti-walker weapon. The halberd and all polearms were designed to defeat the heavily armored knights. As you say, the long length of the weapon gives incredible leverage which allows a peasant force to penetrate the armor of the times. That sort of weapon isn't needed against walkers. And the long length of the weapon can be unwieldy against walkers. Sure you'd get that first swing in and do big damage, but to recover from the swing and get the next swing going will leave you vulnerable to other walkers. Something a little more limber might be a better choice.

From the 14th century on, Europe produced a shitload of huge, detailed, fully illustrated martial arts manuals. Sometimes just as a gift for the manly marquis who had everything, but more often as training aids for military instructors who, do to the importance of reading messages and not having squires to do it for them, were usually more literate than their noble counterparts. From these books we know how halberds were used, and it wasn't just by facing off against an enemy and swinging hard. When those attacks were used, it was when half a dozen halberdiers were all ganging up on one knight. Which happened, plenty, but when the battlefield is packed with unarmored enemy peasants attacking you with their own polearms, you've got to be nimble. Most of the time, halberds were used more like a quarterstaff than like a woodcutting axe. Both ends can kill with a jab. In fact, one end is specialized to kil with a jab to the skull. The six foot handle length doesn't usually mean that you're swinging at someone who's eight feet away. It means that if you've been using you're handle to shove zombies off a cliff, and one manages to get past, you can spread your hands wide and use leverage horizontally or diagonally to make sure you kill that threat two feet away. I'm not saying the ASZ gurards would know this, I'm just saying that weapons which fit a useful niche tend to be found by weapons makers.

If you want to talk voulges or bardiches, we're getting into heavier halberdish weapons. But I really don't expect ASZ to be packed with medieval historians. And frankly, if it were, what I'd be most disappointed by would be their "defensive" architecture. Would it kill 'em to give us a moat filled with zombies?

Now I do agree with you that partizans and boarspears and miltary forks are good options as well. In fact, the tighter the group of people using them gets, the more I like your choice better than mine. But, traditionally, one spearman in the middle of a field by himself has been an even worse option than the same situation with a user of a more multi-directional weapon. Also, a military-style halberd, not a beefed-up ceremonial variation, wasn't that much heavier than a winged spear of similar length. And most of that weight difference was only because halberds had less breakable handles. The spear blade was usually close to a foot long, and the axe and back-hook gave you the same "if the stab doesn't take them down the push will" option as a spearguard.

People in Alexandria should be making some kind of extended melee weapon. I accept that Rick's group rarely had time to think about it, but even they, as mentioned earlier, should have still been carrying pitchforks and signposts. I wouldn't give a rat's ass if the Alexandrax3000 was not a historically accurate halberd, boarspear, yadda yadda yadda. Frankly, I'd think it were stranger if it were. But there are certain weapon features that it shouldn't be that big a stretch to reinvent.

Spears, multi-attack polearms, shields, armor... a child could figure out most of this crap. And not even a particularly smart child.

Rick Schmick. I'll bet ASZ would be better defended if fucking Sam was their Secretary of Defense.

(Bad Guys:"We have knives, machetes, guns, and about five bullets." (beat.) Sam:"We have a Carol.")

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

After watching Vikings, I think my prefered weapon would be one of their axes. A longish handle that can be used one or two handed, and enough of a head to be deadly. And just as importantly, a shield. And watching the coordinated work of the 'shield wall' that tactic would be perfect against walkers. A team could keep even a group of walkers at bay and pick them off from safety with little risk. The only modification I would make from the vikings would be instead of their round shield, I use a tower shield, similar to the riot shield T-Dog used in S3 at the prison. I think a one handed weapon and shield would be much better than any two handed weapon.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

You know I've been thinking about this and I think I'd get some squirt guns and fill them with homemade lye.  My Grandma used to make that stuff and before she did whatever she did to make it stable it'd melt a chicken bone.  The walkers would just melt as I squirted them.  Now I'd just need to learn how to make it.  I know it was ashes and rainwater, but not sure if there was anything else.  I should have paid attention.  Dammit!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

You know I've been thinking about this and I think I'd get some squirt guns and fill them with homemade lye.  My Grandma used to make that stuff and before she did whatever she did to make it stable it'd melt a chicken bone.  The walkers would just melt as I squirted them.  Now I'd just need to learn how to make it.  I know it was ashes and rainwater, but not sure if there was anything else.  I should have paid attention.  Dammit!

You could use well water or any water. The problem is...IT'S LYE!

What is the squirt gun going to be made of? :-D

 

BTW, in our family history there was a little boy child of one ancestor who died when he was standing on a stool stirring the lye and he fell in. (*screams*)

  • Like 2
  • Laugh 1

Share this post


Link to post

You could use well water or any water. The problem is...IT'S LYE!

What is the squirt gun going to be made of? :-D

 

BTW, in our family history there was a little boy child of one ancestor who died when he was standing on a stool stirring the lye and he fell in. (*screams*)

Well her pot was copper I think...there's gotta be a way to reduce it...maybe make pellets or something.  Damn I should have paid attention in Chemistry too.  Do you think there are any management positions in the ZA, because I think I'll have to be the one that has the ideas while everyone else makes it work...lol

 

And oh no no no to well water....HAS to be rainwater.  Why, I don't know but she insisted on it so that it was pure or whatever.  

 

Oh, and OMFG @ your ancestor, but I thank him for proving my theory would work if we could find a delivery type vessel. 

Edited by kj4ever
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Well her pot was copper I think...there's gotta be a way to reduce it...maybe make pellets or something.  Damn I should have paid attention in Chemistry too.  Do you think there are any management positions in the ZA, because I think I'll have to be the one that has the ideas while everyone else makes it work...lol

 

And oh no no no to well water....HAS to be rainwater.  Why, I don't know but she insisted on it so that it was pure or whatever.  

 

Oh, and OMFG @ your ancestor, but I thank him for proving my theory would work if we could find a delivery type vessel. 

I would think that any containers you could find in a ZA that previously held a caustic substance could work. I would look for homes with pools and see if they have any old red jugs for muriatic acid. (If the jugs aren't empty, that saves you from making lye!)

 

Another fun idea would be to drain inground pools. When it's empty just tape together some of the multitude of available flattened cardboard boxes that will evidently be lying on every road and cover the pool. Once you've baited them in, slowly and carefully pour the lye/acid in. (Suggest you wear safety glasses and put a leather jacket on backwards. And gloves. Leather.

(yes, thanks kid in the old days for dying horribly so we can mull over delivery systems for destroying reanimated flesh-eating zombies. You're a real sport! :-P)

Edited by kikismom
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

I would think that any containers you could find in a ZA that previously held a caustic substance could work. I would look for homes with pools and see if they have any old red jugs for muriatic acid. (If the jugs aren't empty, that saves you from making lye!)

 

Another fun idea would be to drain inground pools. When it's empty just tape together some of the multitude of available flattened cardboard boxes that will evidently be lying on every road and cover the pool. Once you've baited them in, slowly and carefully pour the lye/acid in. (Suggest you wear safety glasses and put a leather jacket on backwards. And gloves. Leather.

(yes, thanks kid in the old days for dying horribly so we can mull over delivery systems for destroying reanimated flesh-eating zombies. You're a real sport! :-P)

I wonder if those thingies that they use to spray chemicals on yards would work? 

 

Oh hell yeah I'd have a helmet and a body condom made of leather on!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Oh hell yeah I'd have a helmet and a body condom made of leather on!

Er - got any pictures of that rig?

I ask purely for reasons of scientific curiosity, of course....

  • Like 3
  • Laugh 1

Share this post


Link to post

Oh hell yeah I'd have a helmet and a body condom made of leather on!

Although if you had that, you might not need to kill walkers!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Er - got any pictures of that rig?

I ask purely for reasons of scientific curiosity, of course....

20 years ago, yes...lol

 

Damn they need to make us a fan fic portion on this board...this could be good.  Keep us entertained for six months and some odd weeks...

  • Like 1
  • Laugh 1

Share this post


Link to post

Annnd.... that image is dead.

Thanks.

A lot.

I mean that sincerely.

No, really.

Oh, Nashville, I'm so sorry---I forgot the helmet!

 

hqdefault.jpg

  • Like 1
  • Laugh 1

Share this post


Link to post

"I CAN'T BREATHE IN THIS THING!!!"

"Somebody give him the Kiss of Life! Oh, thank goodness here's Lori, she'll know what to do!"

Share this post


Link to post

"Somebody give him the Kiss of Life! Oh, thank goodness here's Lori, she'll know what to do!"

 

Beep... beep... beep... beep... beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep....

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

working at Lowes I always suspected that if anyone threatened me I'd grab the 4 ft scraper near the desk. It's a sturdy 4 ft pole with a grip at one end and a 4 inch razor blade across the other. The blade can be turned or replaced easily so my fist move would be a couple of those and all the blades. Machete would be good too. Even a short pole scraper that can be screwed onto a broom stick would work.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

This is not what I would actually choose for the ZA, but I do love that they are shamelessly using "Walking Dead" to promote it.

As they damned well should be!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

This is not what I would actually choose for the ZA, but I do love that they are shamelessly using "Walking Dead" to promote it.

As they damned well should be!

 

Before you buy, though, better check your local laws. 

Trench knives with the "brass knuckle"-style grips are illegal in many states.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Now I've been contemplating a protective suit for some time; and the duct tape would work (as Milton proved) but you would die of overheating, especially in GA. Railroad spikes are long-lasting but a lot of weight.

But Tippi Blevins suggestion of a suit, and Nashville's mention of artificial Christmas trees got me thinking.

 

Make a suit out of the artificial Christmas tree branches. The old ones---like mine---have bendy wire branches. You could make a sort of cage around yourself, the walkers couldn't bite through it, yet it would be nice and breathable and lightweight and move with your body.

Bonus: It would also be nice camouflage if you stay in the woods, then you also have the center pole as a weapon as Nashville said.

 

This came closest to the strategy I was thinking of. I'm going with ideal "weapon" here, since I don't even know if this exists, but I'd want a human hamster ball. I'd make sure to tie the top on or lock it pretty well. There would be a lot of small holes for air, and ideally some kind of metal somethings (small spikes or studs or something) in a few lines to potentially run walkers (or people if needed) over with or smack into them with. I'd maybe have a couple of holes just large enough to fit a weapon through - probably a spike of some sort, since I suck at shooting. I'd make sure to carry the spike with a leather sheath and tied securely to myself or in a backpack when not in use, so if I ever got into a tumbling situation, I wouldn't get skewered. I'd also practice getting out quickly in case I somehow ended up in deep water accidentally.

 

And that's how I would hopefully get around.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

(Thought it would be best to transplant this discussion from its original episode thread to a more durable home...)

On 2/19/2019 at 4:01 PM, Nashville said:

As has already been previously demonstrated, the bullets themselves are relatively easy to manufacture so long as a supply of lead is available; gunpowder even more so, if (as Eugene does) you know the proper ingredients and the proper proportions.  Two other things are liable to get in your way, though:

  1. Bullet casings and primers - two things about these.  A. Every time you fire a weapon (especially an automatic or semi-automatic weapon) in the outdoors you’re likely to lose at least a few casings, unless you have a catch bag rigged up on the weapon to capture ejected brass.  B. Even if by some kind of miracle you do manage to retain 100% of your casings, eventually they wear out - explosion deformity, metal fatigue, thinning, etc. all conspire over time to render the casings incapable of sustaining a reload.  Ditto on the primers.  (Note: we had a discussion on this a while back, but helifino where it is).
  2. Sufficient functional weapons.  Keep in mind (a) every group subservient to the Saviors contributed all (or almost all) of their weapons stores to the Saviors multiple times, and (b) many (most?) of those weapons were destroyed in a manner of seconds by Eugene’s bit o’ creative sabotage. Not to mention that over time, things (including firearms) simply break - and without the ability to manufacture replacement components of sufficient quality, they’re going to stay broken.  

Part of Negan’s little post-escape stroll through town (before he got back to the Sanctuary) appeared to be through the foundry which had housed the bullet-manufacturing operation, and it appeared to have been shut down for a LONG time - from which I deduced the operation had experienced either a lack of raw materials for functional cartridges, or a lack of guns for which to manufacture them.

20 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I forgot about the primers.  They would be scarce as well and might be more difficult to produce than powder.

I would think shell casings would be relative easy to manufacture, though I'm not sure how much manufacturing ability they have.  Rifle cartridges were produced in the 19th century, so they are not super advanced technology.   

Given CDB already has access to an operational foundry, they certainly have the technical capacity to melt down and recast brass casings - but considering the already-mentioned issue with primers, would the end product actually be worth the necessary expenditure in resources and man-hours?   

Quote

That brings up a general question, about how long it would take to start restoring manufacturing and technology.   Have we become so dependent upon computers and advanced machines that nobody knows how to build or repair, that we couldn't get them up and running again in a post societal collapse world.

Somewhere around here was an empire-building thread where this was discussed in detail a while back; IIRC the general guess was it would take somewhere in the 10-20 year range to reestablish any significant and sustainable degree of pre-ZA functional infrastructure.

Quote

I would think there would be plenty of functioning guns remaining.  There are more privately owned guns in America than people, and that ratio of guns to people in places like Virginia and Georgia where most of the show takes place would be even higher. 

Yeah - but where would they end up?  

  • When TSHTF the vast majority of those firearms probably went on the move with their owners.  Said owners are either alive or dead.  If alive they probably still have any functional weapons; if dead the weapons were either stolen by their murderers, scavenged from their corpses, or laying where they were dropped/left.
  • The only ones likely to be found in homes are those whose owners got killed before they could return to collect their weapons stash, and eight-ish years of ZA-inspired looting and scavenging have probably already cleared out all the readily accessible options - so unless you have some skill in cracking gun safes, there’s not much point in searching houses.
Quote

 That doesn't even take into account the guns that could be found at military bases, police stations, sporting goods stores, and warehouses, etc. 

Yes - but like the houses, after 8+ years of scavenging the weapons are unlikely to still be in those locations; in fact, I’d expect the publicly accessible locations (police stations and sporting goods stores) would be the very first places cleaned out by looters - they probably didn’t survive ZA Week 1.

Quote

   I think it would take a long time for the small percentage of people who survived to wear out all those guns.  Of course, rust and decay might be a problem for guns that hadn't been stored properly and got exposed to the elements in buildings that began to fall apart over the years.  

Reflecting my comments above, I’d offer a different point for consideration: the primary problem wouldn’t be in wearing out a large number of found guns - it would be in finding them in the first place.

Quote

Simpler guns like bolt action rifles and break action shotguns would be a lot easier to maintain and repair, and would wear out more slowly, so they might be more common used by this stage of the ZA.  

I’d agree, and might even take it a step further - blackpowder shooting might see a popularity resurgence in the ZA. 😉

Edited by Nashville · Reason: Typos
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I really do want to see Eugene making boomerangs.  They wouldn't be much use in wooded areas.  I would hate to be the poor son of a bitch that has to climb trees in order to get them back.  Of course it would give those useless kids back at the Hilltop something to do, instead of watching them drink,  pee on walkers, and eating worms.  Plus it would give that lonely teen girl something to occupy her mind.   You know, the one the looks like Velma from Scooby Doo.

Boomerangs would be effective in an open field.

  • Laugh 1

Share this post


Link to post

Depending upon the thickness of walker skulls  (which seems to vary from episode to episode) perhaps they could find some pump action BB and pellet guns.  Those guns should last a very long time and it wouldn't take much room to carry around huge amounts of ammo.   Perhaps a well aimed shot through the eye socket would be enough to kill a walker.   Plus, those guns aren't very loud.

Edited by icemiser69

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I really do want to see Eugene making boomerangs.  They wouldn't be much use in wooded areas.  I would hate to be the poor son of a bitch that has to climb trees in order to get them back.  Of course it would give those useless kids back at the Hilltop something to do, instead of watching them drink,  pee on walkers, and eating worms.  Plus it would give that lonely teen girl something to occupy her mind.   You know, the one the looks like Velma from Scooby Doo.

I dunno... give Addy (that’s her name) a properly-sanded boomerang and access to a big jar of Vaseline, and she may be be inspired to occupy something else - and Enid might end up with a new patient on her hands.  And THAT patient history would be the kind of story that gets around....

  • Surprise 2

Share this post


Link to post

23 hours ago, Nashville said:

I dunno... give Addy (that’s her name) a properly-sanded boomerang and access to a big jar of Vaseline, and she may be be inspired to occupy something else - and Enid might end up with a new patient on her hands.  And THAT patient history would be the kind of story that gets around....

It has been 23 hours and I still haven't picked up my jaw off of the floor.  😨

Edited by icemiser69
  • Like 1
  • Laugh 2

Share this post


Link to post

I don't know where to  put this, so I will put it here.

The most realistic flashlight used so far that would actually last in the ZA, was the hand crank (dynamo) flashlight that Negan used a couple of episodes ago when he was on his road trip back home.

Also, solar flashlights are available as well, just let them charge with the built in solar panel.

I am surprised that they don't change the lenses to a less harsh tone, perhaps red or yellow to cut down on the amount of light they give off when the "Merry Band of Morons" go to look for their strays.   No need to let the enemies know when you are coming.

That said, hand crank flashlights can be kind of noisy during the cranking process.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

One of my guilty pleasures is collecting sharp, functional sword replicas. My favorite is an 1873 model Dutch cutlass, and I'd be pretty comfortable putting it against a machete or spiked baseball bat, but it wouldn't be my choice as an anti-zombie sword. For that, I'd want something short, straight, double-edged, and rugged. You don't fence a zombie. You do not employ feints, because they do not react to them. You do not parry their blade, because they do not use one, and therefore you do not need to employ disengages, ripostes, or, in fact, anything except direct attacks. Chop the hand off, stab the head, chop the next one's head, maybe chop off another one's hand before you can chop or stab the head, lather, rinse, repeat. I'd want something short enough to wear easily, draw quickly, and maneuver when surrounded, but still with more range of effect than the average machete.

Something I've been thinking about a lot lately is nineteenth century artillery swords. They were well known not to be a match for sabres or fixed bayonets, so they mostly saw use as a swordy-looking machete type tool, use for clearing brush, chopping firewood, and so on. And sharpened functional replicas are available for less than a hundred bucks, because there just isn't that much nuance to them. They don't have graceful, distally-tapered blades that can change direction in a split second. They're just a sharp hunk of indestructable-ish metal, built to endure abuse that a "better" sword couldn't. Both the Union and the Confederacy had similar weapons to the original Napoleanic model, but the French one was the first one that I could find a video for.

I've always liked the aesthetic of these things, but never actually bought one because I do not use my swords to chop firewood or hack through doors. However, in a spur of the moment ZA survival situation, who knows? Oh, I haven't gone "It's gonna happen for realzies!" crazy here, but I do think every collector is entitled to one just-for-shits-and-giggles anti-zombie weapon, and I think I may use that as my excuse to finally buy one of these.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 4/2/2015 at 7:05 PM, kikismom said:

What the hell?  Is that for an elephant to use?

I would hate to be the poor SOB that has to slide that onto an elephant's penis.

Even worse, if you some how got caught in between that excited elephant and its mate's hooha.  They would need a plunger to get you out.

Edited by icemiser69

Share this post


Link to post
On 3/4/2019 at 8:24 AM, icemiser69 said:

What the hell?  Is that for an elephant to use?

Forget elephant; think blue whale.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

This is currently on holiday clearance markdown at Kult of Athena, so I'm about fifty fifty on whether or not I'm going to buy one.

On the one hand, it looks to be a decent semi-historical killy-toy. And I don't actually have any old-style polearms that I'm truly happy with.

On the other hand, I have been spending way too much money and space on such things. This year alone I have purchased one shield, two daggers, and nine swords. Usually I keep the total under half a dozen, and that's still kind of ridiculous.

But on the third hand, if I do buy this thing, I'm pretty sure it will be my true "In Case of Zombie Emergency, Grab This" weapon. It's long enough to have reach when you want it to, but short enough to use indoors or outdoors. It's a size that can double as a walking stick or even an aid for climbing over obstacles. It can easily induce brain trauma on a zombie, and can also fight, wound, and kill humans pretty well, including humans wearing helmets. It would be good for breaking windows, breaking through doors, and even opening cans of soup if you're confident that you have as immune to zombie residue in your food as Rick and Daryl are. There's no edge to maintain or worry about damaging because it meant to be an indestructible hunk of metal for bashing and crumpling other hunks of metal. And whoever happens to be inside...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Customize font-size