S04.E17: Karaoke

[Lois Sandborne]

I love Ava the character, and I was a fan of Janelle James before she was cast on the show. But they haven't shown us anything about her coming through for O'Shon, or treating him at all in a way regular people would find attractive. I haven't seen reasons why he'd be trying to spend free time with her. Maybe that will happen as their story goes on, if that scene outside the restaurant is any indication.

[Crashcourse]

Ava might be estranged from her father, and maybe there were other family issues, but that doesn't excuse her acting like her shit don't stink.

[atomic]

Ava started acting bitchy as soon as O'Shon started asking her about her family and her childhood. You could see that panicked look on her face when he asked her that question about going out to eat with her family as a kid. I am not excusing her behavior, but being mean is clearly her way of keeping people at arm's length so she won't ever have to be real or vulnerable with them. I thought it was a nice moment when Ava obviously realized she really likes O'Shon and can't keep acting like that if she wants to keep him around. O'Shon likely recognized that sharing something personal like that wasn't easy for her, so that's why he was willing to give her another chance. I'm glad because I really like them together and hope we continue to see that less guarded version of Ava.

Edited March 16 by atomic

[kathyk2]

6 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I imagine what a lot of people see in someone they are initially attracted to, their looks, something about a vibe that calls to you.

The first date is the opportunity to get to know the person a bit and whether you want to spend more time with them.  And theirs went dismally at first and he was right to call a halt to it when he did and to say why.

But we've been given tons of context clues about Ava's personality over the last 4 seasons. She isn't just a horrible person. She is fantastic with the kids which says a lot about a person.  She is prickly and snarky, but that is  mostly with people who try to be nice to her or who try to show her they care.

Her relationship with Janine, imo, mirrors her relationship with O'Shon in some ways. We've seen her be mean to Janine, but she has come through for Janine and even spoke nicely about Janine when Janine wasn't around to hear it.  In the last Christmas episode she went to hang with Janine and Gregory for no reason that we could discern but it was heavily implied she wanted to be with people that she might consider family, but the minute they started to act that way toward her and kinda suss onto her motives, her walls came up and she got mean again.

I think Janelle James is a highly underrated actress. She does a lot of face acting that contradicts what comes out of her mouth.  You can see that in a lot of the scenes where Ava needs to shift into another gear.  And you can see it throughout the date.

Janine and Ava reacted differently to having tough childhoods. Janine became a people pleaser Ava is fiercely independent and people have to earn their way into her life. 

[Red Bridey]

I think the reason O'Shon asked Ava out is as simple as he thought she was a fine looking woman. That's what first dates are for: to see if there's a connection worth pursuing. O'Shon ignored the signs Janine and Gregory were sending him because he thought Ava would be a good woman. When she treated him dismissively, he changed his mind and calmly ended the date. It was only after Ava showed signs of actual humanity that things progressed. She gave him something he could work with. Good for both of them!

[Joimiaroxeu]

Better not throw it back, forward, or to the side. Barbara is not having such nonsense.

Barbara said O'Shon is fine for no reason. No lies detected. Ever.

Mr. Johnson sang, "🎶a whole lot of bitches jumping ship🎶." Guess ABC didn't want to bleep the more profane version of that lyric.

O'Shon speaks fluent Japanese. And French. 😉 How is he so perfect?

Mr. Johnson doing air guitar to Papa Roach. He is truly a Renaissance man.

Nothing against Subarus but I expected to see O'Shon in something a bit more sporty. Or a hybrid.

On 3/15/2025 at 11:37 AM, Crashcourse said:

She looks ok, but I wouldn't call her some raving beauty who would blow a guy's mind.

I think Ava has an impressive body for a woman her age who mostly sits all day. I can see men being attracted to her physique. Plus I think O'Shon is intrigued by her intelligence.

On 3/15/2025 at 3:21 AM, DanaK said:

I’m starting to watch the episode again and there’s so many little bits to appreciate

Yeah, this episode was almost overwhelming for me because there was a lot happening and being said, and it was non-stop. Give us a minute, Quinta!

[Empress1]

26 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Yeah, this episode was almost overwhelming for me because there was a lot happening and being said, and it was non-stop. Give us a minute, Quinta!

Simon hollering “Let’s go!” when “Last Resort” kicked in was hilarious. All the reactions to that song were.

23 hours ago, Red Bridey said:

I think the reason O'Shon asked Ava out is as simple as he thought she was a fine looking woman. That's what first dates are for: to see if there's a connection worth pursuing. O'Shon ignored the signs Janine and Gregory were sending him because he thought Ava would be a good woman. When she treated him dismissively, he changed his mind and calmly ended the date. It was only after Ava showed signs of actual humanity that things progressed. She gave him something he could work with. Good for both of them!

Yeah, I think he was attracted to her and wanted to see if there was more there. He’s gotten glimpses of her with the students, and she’s come a long way with them. He didn’t let her rudeness fly, and when she let her guard down he thought “okay, I can deal with this.” I could see that. Ava was rude enough (her lack of curiosity about him would be a deal-breaker - I hate dates with men who don’t try to get to know me) that I personally would have said “I’m glad you told me that but I still don’t think we should see each other again,” but I can see people who think differently than I taking the chance.

[Vanderboom]

On 3/14/2025 at 12:17 PM, Empress1 said:

I know every word. 😂 That song is catchy AF but if you listen to the lyrics, yeah, it’s depressing.

For me, it edges out Freda Payne's "Band of Gold" for Bouncy-Sounding Song with Heartbreaking Lyrics. It's so  . . . Barbara to be so concerned about the song's content while everyone else is nostalgic and jamming to it.

Edited March 20 by Vanderboom

[DearEvette]

On 3/14/2025 at 11:40 AM, tennisgurl said:

Wow, What Would You Do is taking me way back, I started singing along right with the rest of the gang when that came on. My friends and I were all singing that song constantly when we were in junior high, clearly not thinking much about the actual lyrics. I love that Barbara was just sad about the songs content while everyone else was jamming. 

I went back and watched this episode because I know I missed stuff on first watch, and yeah second watch of this scene took me out.

They are all singing the song, jamming out.. Barbara is singing but looks worried.  And then the shot goes to a talking head of Gregory saying something heartwarming.  And then it goes back to them singing but the scene has gotten way more chaotic.

O'Shon is jumping and  dancing on a couch behind the main group, Jacob is now wearing Ava's coat, Melissa is drinking beer straight out of a large pitcher, Gregory is doing superhero poses, Ericka is just standing there sobbing with Janine is hugging her while Simon is outside the room watching, and Barbara is just straight up talking about how sad the lyrics are.  It is pretty hysterical.