S18.E.14: High Tea & High Tension

[tranquilidade]

She may have already transferred the money to the surgeon —-who knows— but I think she  had no intention of ever paying it back.  Why would he give the money before getting her signature ? If it only meant 3 days he should have waited to make things clear. He did this to himself. He should have made a settlement. 

[bravofan27]

Earlier in the season, Tamra expressed what looked like true sympathy to Shannon when she said she was being sued by John. ABut now, Tamra is saying that Shannon told her that it was a loan and would sue Shannon as well. She is talking out of both sides of her (dumb) face.

[Atwood]

Maybe I'm biased because I've got a couple of "Shannons" in my family, and I've been the John in this situation several times. You don't sign papers before hand because your intimate associate swears up and down that they will pay you back and it's an emergency and they need money right now but they will pay you back next week/month/year. And they already know that you have cash or cash-like savings so you can lend it to them, and they are in a situation where they've already paid a deposit that they will lose out on if you don't lend them this money that is just sitting around. Do you hate them so much that you won't help them out? Do you really think they are so untrustworthy and terrible of a person that you need legal protection from them? Wow! If the situation was reversed they promise they would help you out! (They would not, but they make you feel like a monster for not doing it). 

Then the date that they promised they would pay you back comes up, but they pretend like nothing. If you bring it up they would have paid you back, but unexpected things came up so they can't. They did have the opportunity to buy all sorts of new expensive shit that you notice when you go to their house. If you point that out you are met with an emotional meltdown about how much you must hate them to not think they are worthy of a new vitamix/couch/car/whatever. And if you were a good person like them you would have just let them keep the money without asking for it back, that's what they would have done if they were in your position but your obviously not as good of a person. And if the person does chose to give it back it's out of the kindness of their heart, because they are not obligated. 

Guh. Much like Kim on RHOBH this is giving me deja vu, and I can tell that a lot of people that are on the side of people like Shannon don't have a lot of real life experience dealing with a Shannon. In this episode I don't see the sweet woman who is clearly overwhelmed by the hardest life ever, I see a woman who is weaponizing tears constantly. I find her extremely manipulative, and the strongest association I get from her is the waif-y end of the cluster b spectrum. 

[Chatty Cake]

11 hours ago, bravofan27 said:

Earlier in the season, Tamra expressed what looked like true sympathy to Shannon when she said she was being sued by John. ABut now, Tamra is saying that Shannon told her that it was a loan and would sue Shannon as well. She is talking out of both sides of her (dumb) face.

That’s how Tamtrash operates. She makes up with the person then loses her shit on them. She’s done it countless times. Now Shannon nd Jenn get her wrath. 

 

14 minutes ago, Atwood said:

Maybe I'm biased because I've got a couple of "Shannons" in my family, and I've been the John in this situation several times. You don't sign papers before hand because your intimate associate swears up and down that they will pay you back and it's an emergency and they need money right now but they will pay you back next week/month/year. And they already know that you have cash or cash-like savings so you can lend it to them, and they are in a situation where they've already paid a deposit that they will lose out on if you don't lend them this money that is just sitting around. Do you hate them so much that you won't help them out? Do you really think they are so untrustworthy and terrible of a person that you need legal protection from them? Wow! If the situation was reversed they promise they would help you out! (They would not, but they make you feel like a monster for not doing it). 

Then the date that they promised they would pay you back comes up, but they pretend like nothing. If you bring it up they would have paid you back, but unexpected things came up so they can't. They did have the opportunity to buy all sorts of new expensive shit that you notice when you go to their house. If you point that out you are met with an emotional meltdown about how much you must hate them to not think they are worthy of a new vitamix/couch/car/whatever. And if you were a good person like them you would have just let them keep the money without asking for it back, that's what they would have done if they were in your position but your obviously not as good of a person. And if the person does chose to give it back it's out of the kindness of their heart, because they are not obligated. 

Guh. Much like Kim on RHOBH this is giving me deja vu, and I can tell that a lot of people that are on the side of people like Shannon don't have a lot of real life experience dealing with a Shannon. In this episode I don't see the sweet woman who is clearly overwhelmed by the hardest life ever, I see a woman who is weaponizing tears constantly. I find her extremely manipulative, and the strongest association I get from her is the waif-y end of the cluster b spectrum. 

I don’t think you need an addict in your life to understand. Shannon’s drinking issue does not make the disgusting John Jansen any less despicable. Plus if I remember he was a drunk as well. 

[Palimelon]

Quote

people that are on the side of people like Shannon don't have a lot of real life experience dealing with a Shannon

Nah, you can have a real life experience dealing with a Shannon but still be more sympathetic to her over John & Alexis.

[Dr Mama]

21 hours ago, Atwood said:

I can tell that a lot of people that are on the side of people like Shannon don't have a lot of real life experience dealing with a Shannon.

Or possibly you see her this way because you've had experience with family or friends who borrow money and then don't pay it back, so JJ's explanation of the situation aligns with similar experiences you have had--it's confirming your own personal experiences.

While his version of events is one possible explanation for this situation, there ARE other possible explanations, and I can see those other explanations as plausible even though I HAVE been in the situation where someone said they would pay me back and then never did.

And I've also borrowed money from different family members and ALWAYS paid them back on time, whether or not I signed anything (some asked, some did not.)

I'm guessing they did not communicate well when JJ gave Shannon the money, and Shannon assumed it was a gift while he was thinking it was a loan, but neither of them spelled it out in detail. A couple of days later, he thought he should get it clarified--so he sent the promissory note, but because she thought it was a gift, she refused to sign it.

JJ's story would have a lot more credibility to me if he had accepted Shannon's repayment offer, even with a mutual non-disparagement agreement. It would also be more credible if they (JJ and Alexis) hadn't made all those threats about releasing videos that would "destroy" Shannon if she didn't pay him back.

 

[Atwood]

4 hours ago, Dr Mama said:

I'm guessing they did not communicate well when JJ gave Shannon the money, and Shannon assumed it was a gift while he was thinking it was a loan, but neither of them spelled it out in detail. A couple of days later, he thought he should get it clarified--so he sent the promissory note, but because she thought it was a gift, she refused to sign it.

JJ's story would have a lot more credibility to me if he had accepted Shannon's repayment offer, even with a mutual non-disparagement agreement. It would also be more credible if they (JJ and Alexis) hadn't made all those threats about releasing videos that would "destroy" Shannon if she didn't pay him back.

I'm definitely biased. But they both agree that he sent her a promissory note within a couple of days of him transferring the money to her so it was obvious to her at least two years ago that it wasn't intended as a loan on his end. At that point a reasonable person who had expected it to be a gift would have a frank conversation about whether it was a gift or a loan and either way get it affirmed in writing. If there wasn't an agreement I would think any reasonably normal person would return the money and get a loan elsewhere to cover current liquidity issues. A normal reaction is not to decide for yourself that what another person gave as a loan is now a gift because you want it to be.  

Shannon herself admits she threw a shit fit when she got the email with the promissory note. I guess having been in that type of situation myself a couple of times, and having witnessed a lot personality overlap between Shannon and my family members, I find John a lot more credible. The most likely reason for the tantrum in my experience is that Shannon was infuriated that he felt he wanted her to sign something since that would imply that she is untrustworthy, that she would be the kind of person who wouldn't keep a promise of paying him back etc. Probably with a heaping dose of tears and guilting. The alternative perspective, that he changed his mind and agreed it was a gift doesn't seem as likely to me, but of course there are always alternate explanations.

I've never liked John and I've actively disliked Alexis since her first run on the show, but I actually totally understand where he's coming from here. But again, bias for sure. My sister would whine to everyone who would listen about how I'm a terrible sister who has never done anything for her while neglecting to mention that she was fairly heavily in debt to me. She gifted me an expensive jacket that she had ordered in the wrong size and couldn't return, afterwards she felt that this unsolicited generosity should be met with forgiveness of a loan that was 50x that value. I had pages and pages of her her texts begging me for money and promising that she would pay me back immediately, and she still tried to pull the "we never really agreed it was a loan, I didn't sign anything official, it was basically a gift." 

I have eventually gotten the money back each time after some strong-arming, but in years rather than weeks or months, and without the interest payments she always claimed she would pay when I started to hound her for my money back. If she was a public figure who had been trash talking me to the rest of the world, not just our friends and family, and her offer was to pay me back some of the money and no interest but I had to sign a gag order I would have been infuriated. I actually find his anger at having been portrayed as a gold-digger/deadbeat boyfriend while in reality he is the one who has been funding her (whether through loans or through gifts) very reasonable. Shannon on the other hand is acting in a way that is very familiar to me, and that's why I find her so off-putting. Just pure entitlement.

She can't have it both ways, he cant both have been completely ungenerous throughout the relationship and be the guy who gifted her 75k without expecting to have it paid back. "Something in the buttermilk ain't clean."

For me this is not at all about John and Alexis. They both annoy me and they both seem like assholes, but where I differ from (most?) other people is that I find Shannon's behavior despicable regardless.  

Edited October 15 by Atwood

[Natalie68]

On 10/12/2024 at 5:21 PM, lasu said:

I wouldn't say Tamra's behavior is worse than Shannon's DUI. I would say Tamra's behavior makes her a worse *person* than Shannon and her DUI.

I am of the opinion they are equally bad, just in slightly different ways.

[Carolina Girl]

I've now reached the point for this franchise that I have reached for every other franchise except for Miami (I'm still fond of Gerde and Nicole).  I can't stand ANY of them.  

[Cosmocrush]

On 10/13/2024 at 1:48 PM, tranquilidade said:

She may have already transferred the money to the surgeon —-who knows— but I think she  had no intention of ever paying it back.  Why would he give the money before getting her signature ? If it only meant 3 days he should have waited to make things clear. He did this to himself. He should have made a settlement. 

Agreed.  But then he wouldn't have been able to torment, humiliate, and generally attack her, through Alexis, on TV.   For a guy who supposedly didn't like being mentioned on camera he sure is getting his voice out there. 

A wise person once told me, "Never loan money to a friend or family member and expect to get it back.   Consider that money a gift - although no need to declare that - and if you do get repaid, then bonus."  If you can't afford to give it, then you can't afford to loan it.   Some of the best money/relationship advice I ever received. 

The way Jansen has weaponized this situation is right on brand with the dick I know from seasons past. 

[JustbeingReal]

The viewers coddle Shannon too much. It's no wonder the world is the way it is. I'm just reading and I'm like people really think this? Ridiculous. Alexis just gets beat up on and Shannon gets treated like a child. I used to like Tamra but her attitude is so horrible I don't even care about her cute face. Eddie is being picked apart now for just keeping the peace,just because of who Tamra is smh.

[Palimelon]

Quote

The viewers coddle Shannon too much. It's no wonder the world is the way it is.

I don't see the connection.

Regardless of how one feels about Shannon, Alexis deserves whatever she is getting.

Tamra's face stopped being cute a long time ago, between the work she has had done to it plus 90% of her face seems to be stuck between resting bitch face or judgy mscquints-a-lot,

[JustbeingReal]

19 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

I don't see the connection.

Regardless of how one feels about Shannon, Alexis deserves whatever she is getting.

Tamra's face stopped being cute a long time ago, between the work she has had done to it plus 90% of her face seems to be stuck between resting bitch face or judgy mscquints-a-lot,

People need to learn from their mistakes and have consequences. No one is more special than anyone else to get to do bad things and get away with it. I'm not changing what I think. I just don't like everyone picking on one person. But if Shannon is so bothered she should probably quit reality tv. Just a thought. 

Edited October 16 by JustbeingReal

[Palimelon]

Quote

The way Jansen has weaponized this situation is right on brand with the dick I know from seasons past. 

With Alexis as his willing accomplice.

[ZettaK]

On 10/12/2024 at 10:27 AM, Tiggertoo said:

Now I’m truly confused. I thought she originally offered half, but when she heard about the video, she went back and offered to pay the full amount.  He refused because of the non disparagement clause and that’s when he sued her. Am I wrong?  If so, I’d say he’s petty and stupid to have turned down the offer. 
 

And how believable would it be if she complied and suddenly started praising his generosity. I think that ship has sailed. 

John Janssen said on the last episode (he appeared in a confessional with Alexis) that he sued because the statute of limitations would be over in a few days, and there was no agreement yet. Shannon already said that she paid for half of the duration of their relationship in the middle of the season, from saying for a long time that she paid for everything for four years. He didn’t want to sign a non disparagement agreement because she has a platform (the show), on top of her social media, well, to disparage him. She could have said something mild, like "I overexaggerated" since she was there half way already.  

Edited October 16 by ZettaK

[ZettaK]

On 10/12/2024 at 1:04 PM, Chatty Cake said:

Tamras behavior is much worse than Shannon’s DUI. 

The behavior of a woman who drives drunk and crashes into a house, then pulls away and drives her car a few houses away, gets out and pretends to walk her dog, claims this was a one time thing (driving drunk) in her first scene this season, and continues drinking on the show is better than somebody's who calls her out for drinking on the show, and even appearing hungover in Sonoma? 

Edited October 16 by ZettaK

[Chatty Cake]

37 minutes ago, ZettaK said:

The behavior of a woman who drives drunk and crashes into a house, then pulls away and drives her car a few houses away, gets out and pretends to walk her dog, claims this was a one time thing (driving drunk) in her first scene this season, and continues drinking on the show is better than somebody's who calls her out for drinking on the show, and even appearing hungover in Sonoma? 

If it’s Tamra, yes.

[ZettaK]

On 10/12/2024 at 5:56 PM, snarts said:

100%

Good people make mistakes.  Tamrat chooses day in & day out to be the absolute worst version of herself: a vile, conniving asshole who derives joy from tearing others down.

Good people make mistakes? This is criminal behavior- in fact, several criminal offenses by Shannon. I don't doubt she drove drunk many times because everybody thought she had an alcohol problem since she joined the show. 

24 minutes ago, Chatty Cake said:

If it’s Tamra, yes.

Tamra doesn't have any criminal offenses. Shannon does. Several. Let's be reasonable here.

[ZettaK]

On 10/13/2024 at 3:38 AM, Dr Mama said:

I think she needs the money--both the direct paycheck and the attention that gives her other opportunities to make money.

Her divorce settlement was really not enough to maintain the lifestyle she had been living, and I'd guess she has spent most of the lump sum already on expenses and business ventures. And her monthly payments end in 4.5 years, so she really needs to make money while she can.

Shannon received $1.4 million in the divorce settlement, and $10,000 in monthly spousal support until 2029, on top of the child support.

It's the money and especially the attention (celebrity status). Everybody that joins a reality show wants to be famous. 

I didn't like the comment Adeline who is in New York made in a FaceTime with Shannon (in the last, or the one before that episode). She said she would go on a date with somebody if they took her to Carbone. Carbone is an Italian restaurant which is very popular with celebrities.  

Edited October 16 by ZettaK

[ZettaK]

On 10/13/2024 at 4:02 PM, tranquilidade said:

I think the   promisory note actually proves the money was a gift.  The promisory note is given first and when signed the borrower gets the money.  Sending it after giving the money  means that when it was actually handed over it wasn't  by definition  a loan unless clearly  stated with some way of proving the conversation happened.   I bet he gave it to her and they then had a fight and so he sent the promisory note to her but it doens't sound like she ever signed it.  It looks like gift and a stupid move on his part.

Why make assumptions when Shannon said on the show she wanted to get a loan with a small interest rate, and then she asked John for a loan instead? So, she knew very well it was a loan. 

[ZettaK]

On 10/15/2024 at 5:28 AM, Dr Mama said:

I'm guessing they did not communicate well when JJ gave Shannon the money, and Shannon assumed it was a gift while he was thinking it was a loan, but neither of them spelled it out in detail. A couple of days later, he thought he should get it clarified--so he sent the promissory note, but because she thought it was a gift, she refused to sign it.

JJ's story would have a lot more credibility to me if he had accepted Shannon's repayment offer, even with a mutual non-disparagement agreement. It would also be more credible if they (JJ and Alexis) hadn't made all those threats about releasing videos that would "destroy" Shannon if she didn't pay him back.

 

Shannon said on the show she wanted to get a low interest loan, but then she asked John for a loan. No misunderstandings there. 

Edited October 16 by ZettaK

[Cosmocrush]

1 hour ago, ZettaK said:

The behavior of a woman who drives drunk and crashes into a house, then pulls away and drives her car a few houses away, gets out and pretends to walk her dog, claims this was a one time thing (driving drunk) in her first scene this season, and continues drinking on the show is better than somebody's who calls her out for drinking on the show, and even appearing hungover in Sonoma? 

Yep.  Well, better than Tamra anyway. 

Shannon made a terrible, criminal choice one night and got caught.  She got very lucky no one was hurt or killed.  She faced the consequences of that behavior. 

If Shannon continues to drink on the show and even in Sonoma,  it's not a crime until she gets behind the wheel.  I suspect she eventually will face the personal and health consequences of that as well. 

On the other hand Tamra's behavior isn't criminal but has been consistently shitty for years.  Just this week she's whining about being judged and hated on but spent a great deal of this season loudly and publicly being judgey and hating on Shannon. 

So no, Tamra has never been arrested but she's horrible to everyone eventually.  Shannon has an arrest record but she also has an actual relationship with her daughters. 

 

[Stats Queen]

13 minutes ago, Cosmocrush said:

Yep.  Well, better than Tamra anyway. 

Shannon made a terrible, criminal choice one night and got caught.  She got very lucky no one was hurt or killed.  She faced the consequences of that behavior. 

If Shannon continues to drink on the show and even in Sonoma,  it's not a crime until she gets behind the wheel.  I suspect she eventually will face the personal and health consequences of that as well. 

On the other hand Tamra's behavior isn't criminal but has been consistently shitty for years.  Just this week she's whining about being judged and hated on but spent a great deal of this season loudly and publicly being judgey and hating on Shannon. 

So no, Tamra has never been arrested but she's horrible to everyone eventually.  Shannon has an arrest record but she also has an actual relationship with her daughters. 

 

Tamra is just planning evil. The joy on her face when going after Shannon at the dinner gave me the creeps.

[Dr Mama]

7 hours ago, ZettaK said:

Shannon received $1.4 million in the divorce settlement, and $10,000 in monthly spousal support until 2029, on top of the child support.

Yes--I read that's what she received.

And I get that it sounds like a lot of money, but the lifestyle she was living in Orange County pre-divorce probably required an annual income of $400,000+. Rent alone would have eaten up that $10K/month in spousal support.

I think she spent a fair bit of that lump sum on trying to launch various business ventures, and I would guess she spent a fair percentage on trying to maintain her lifestyle.

If she'd invested well and spent cautiously, she could certainly have lived off the settlement, but it does not appear to me that she made careful choices with money.

But I agree she is also doing it for whatever level of celebrity comes along with being a Real Housewife.

7 hours ago, ZettaK said:

Why make assumptions when Shannon said on the show she wanted to get a loan with a small interest rate, and then she asked John for a loan instead? So, she knew very well it was a loan. 

What I remember from that conversation was that she said she was trying to get a loan, and John expressed surprise she couldn't get one. She said something about how he had money, which is probably why he thought he was loaning her money, but she never said she asked him for a loan.

As I said in an earlier comment, it seems to me there was miscommunication about this money. If he thought it was a loan, and he was expecting to be repaid, I would have advised him to get that in writing BEFORE transferring any money. I've borrowed money from a family member before, and I proactively offered to put the agreement in writing in advance.

[RealHousewife]

@Chatty Cake and @ZettaK I hear you both. On one hand, it’s true Shannon could have killed someone. I would much rather have Tamra out there driving than Shannon. But Tamra is just so mean, I would still prefer to have Shannon as a friend. 

I think driving under the influence is a horrible thing to do, and as much as otherwise good people do it, I’ve wondered if the punishment isn’t strong enough. But I have known good people who’ve made this mistake. I’ve never known a good person who treats people like Tamra does. 

As a pretty squeaky clean person who doesn’t even drink, I’ve also known good people who’ve broken the law in other ways, and I’ve known monsters with no criminal history. I get that Shannon’s actions were dangerous in a way than Tamra’s were not, but legal and moral are not always the same.

Edited October 17 by RealHousewife

[Palimelon]

In theory, Shannon can go to therapy or rehab for her issues.

Tamra could jump into a pool of holy water, and would still be the same person once she came out (I mean, she got baptized, and...). If anything, she'd probably cause all the holy water to evaporate.

Edited October 17 by Palimelon

[Natalie68]

19 hours ago, ZettaK said:

Why make assumptions when Shannon said on the show she wanted to get a loan with a small interest rate, and then she asked John for a loan instead? So, she knew very well it was a loan. 

I think he mentioned the promissory note after the loan because he needed to ensure that YES, this was a loan based on her actions.  He knows Shannon.  Who GIVES that amount of money to an ex? Or just a girlfriend? He doesn't seem to have that kind of money and he has kids.  Especially if she claims she is the one that paid for everything. It is gross she is parsing their entire relationship and writing down what she paid during that time. Paying for a flight or dinner or Faragamos is WAY different that getting a chunk of money to get plastic surgery. 

1 hour ago, Palimelon said:

In theory, Shannon can go to therapy or rehab for her issues.

Tamra could jump into a pool of holy water, and would still be the same person once she came out (I mean, she got baptized, and...). If anything, she'd probably cause all the holy water to evaporate.

I am not sure why this is a contest about who is worse.  They are both bad in their own ways.  Shannon can be just as nasty as Tamra when Tamra is on her side.  When the 3 amigos were together, they could be brutal.

Edited October 17 by Natalie68

[Palimelon]

Because this is the HWs, and some HWs are worse than others.

[Carolina Girl]

Shannon is a drunk.  Period.  

In fact, everyone I know who gets pulled over here in California for drunk driving loses their license for a year, pays at least a four-figure fine, and has to register and attend a alcohol program for so many sessions.  In addition, you are put  on some form of probation and one of the conditions of said probation is that you do not drink in public (actually you're not supposed to drink at all, but they can't do anything about what you do in your house).  Had a buddy who was on that probation that was caught at a local bar when they were interviewing witnesses for a bar fight and got to spend the night in jail for violating his DUI probation.  

Do we know the conditions of Shannon's DUI probation?  There's film of her drinking in public so I guess that's NOT one of the conditions? 

[tranquilidade]

23 hours ago, ZettaK said:

Why make assumptions when Shannon said on the show she wanted to get a loan with a small interest rate, and then she asked John for a loan instead? So, she knew very well it was a loan. 

Just looking at this from a legal point of view.  Unless she signed an agreement John doesn't have one no matter how many may have sent her.  Her understanding when she took the money in her view is that she would not pay it back.   I bet her lawyers told her not to just return the money and since she hates him that gives her a good reason not to do it. Her bad behavior or personality really doesn't change these facts.

[bravofan27]

Regardless, IMO, of whether Shannon knew it was a loan or not, Johnny J. didn't get a signature on anything when he gave her the money or afterwards. So it's on him. Why he is haggling over this when he should be grateful for being on the show, getting paid for his appearances, and all the fame he has received, is beyond spiteful and he's a jerk. I hope she doesn't have to give him a penny. 

[RoseAllDay]

Hypochondriac and health nut Shannon hasn’t had a mammogram in 10 years? But her protective bracelet saved the day.

Jenn: Excuse me…I have a lump in my breast. Had it for five months. Just had too much on my plate to deal with it.

WHAAA?

Damn…Heather treats the girls to mammograms and it’s “Bye, see ya later!”  

Ingrates. 🤣

On 10/16/2024 at 5:30 PM, ZettaK said:

The behavior of a woman who drives drunk and crashes into a house, then pulls away and drives her car a few houses away, gets out and pretends to walk her dog, claims this was a one time thing (driving drunk) in her first scene this season, and continues drinking on the show is better than somebody's who calls her out for drinking on the show, and even appearing hungover in Sonoma? 

Neither is better, obviously, but I think there is the capacity in Shannon to learn from her mistakes. With the events of the last couple days, though, Tamra is pretty much irredeemable.

[65mickey]

I never thought that one person's shitty behavior equates to another's criminal behavior. I don't know how this loan/gift suit will turn out. But based on what Shannon said on the Jeff Lewis podcast, Shannon took the money from John under the pretense that it was a loan. At some point she decided that because she paid for dinners and shoes for JJ, she is not going to repay the loan. Legally she may not have to repay the money but morally she should.  There is no way that I would take $75,000 from anyone other than my husband and then refuse to repay the money when they asked for it. That is what a deadbeat does. 

[Stats Queen]

Multiple things can be true at one time.

1. Shannon is a mess and has a problem with alcohol;

2. Shannon probably did take a “loan” from John

3. Johnny Jay is a piece of human scum.

4. Alexis is painfully stupid.

5. Tamra is evil and disgusting 

 

[ZettaK]

On 10/17/2024 at 2:07 AM, Dr Mama said:

Yes--I read that's what she received.

And I get that it sounds like a lot of money, but the lifestyle she was living in Orange County pre-divorce probably required an annual income of $400,000+. Rent alone would have eaten up that $10K/month in spousal support.

I think she spent a fair bit of that lump sum on trying to launch various business ventures, and I would guess she spent a fair percentage on trying to maintain her lifestyle.

If she'd invested well and spent cautiously, she could certainly have lived off the settlement, but it does not appear to me that she made careful choices with money.

But I agree she is also doing it for whatever level of celebrity comes along with being a Real Housewife.

What I remember from that conversation was that she said she was trying to get a loan, and John expressed surprise she couldn't get one. She said something about how he had money, which is probably why he thought he was loaning her money, but she never said she asked him for a loan.

As I said in an earlier comment, it seems to me there was miscommunication about this money. If he thought it was a loan, and he was expecting to be repaid, I would have advised him to get that in writing BEFORE transferring any money. I've borrowed money from a family member before, and I proactively offered to put the agreement in writing in advance.

Shannon also reportedly earns around $1 million from being on the show (for three months of work). She has the Dos Amigas, and other endorsements. Only two of her kids are in college (the ones who visited her in London)- she and David are responsible for college tuition, etc. It's obvious she mishandles her money.

Edited October 18 by ZettaK

[ZettaK]

19 hours ago, bravofan27 said:

Regardless, IMO, of whether Shannon knew it was a loan or not, Johnny J. didn't get a signature on anything when he gave her the money or afterwards. So it's on him. Why he is haggling over this when he should be grateful for being on the show, getting paid for his appearances, and all the fame he has received, is beyond spiteful and he's a jerk. I hope she doesn't have to give him a penny. 

Johnny J appeared only in one confessional. I doubt he got paid for that. Even Friends (of the HWs) earn minimal amounts. 

23 hours ago, Carolina Girl said:

Shannon is a drunk.  Period.  

In fact, everyone I know who gets pulled over here in California for drunk driving loses their license for a year, pays at least a four-figure fine, and has to register and attend a alcohol program for so many sessions.  In addition, you are put  on some form of probation and one of the conditions of said probation is that you do not drink in public (actually you're not supposed to drink at all, but they can't do anything about what you do in your house).  Had a buddy who was on that probation that was caught at a local bar when they were interviewing witnesses for a bar fight and got to spend the night in jail for violating his DUI probation.  

Do we know the conditions of Shannon's DUI probation?  There's film of her drinking in public so I guess that's NOT one of the conditions? 

Shannon's lawyer secured the best possible terms for her. We saw her in the first episode discussing the court terms with her attorney. She kept her driver's license, she did minimal community service, she paid a $250 fine if I remember correctly, and it's obvious there are no conditions regarding drinking in public (she drinks on the show). She also told the attorney that she would like to have her record expunged after a few years. 

Edited October 18 by ZettaK

[65mickey]

5 hours ago, ZettaK said:

Shannon also earns around $1 million from being on the show (for three months of work). She has the Dos Amigas, and other endorsements. One of her daughters works in New York after graduating from college, so there are only two kids in college- she and David are responsible for college tuition, etc. It's obvious she mishandles her money.

Edited 5 hours ago by ZettaK

I remember her saying at one time she spent her entire divorce settlement money on starting her 2 businesses. The first being the now defunct expensive TV dinners. The second being the lemon water business that she hasn't mentioned in 2 or 3 seasons with the exception of early this season when she said something about her DUI having a negative effect on it. Based on the hand written notes about how much money she spent on wining and dining JJ, she is very irresponsible with money. She blows though money and expects someone to hand her $75,000 to pay for bills and a facelift and has no intention of repaying.  In the way she handles her money Shannon is the Sonja Morgan of this franchise.  

[RealHousewife]

5 hours ago, 65mickey said:

I remember her saying at one time she spent her entire divorce settlement money on starting her 2 businesses. The first being the now defunct expensive TV dinners. The second being the lemon water business that she hasn't mentioned in 2 or 3 seasons with the exception of early this season when she said something about her DUI having a negative effect on it. Based on the hand written notes about how much money she spent on wining and dining JJ, she is very irresponsible with money. She blows though money and expects someone to hand her $75,000 to pay for bills and a facelift and has no intention of repaying.  In the way she handles her money Shannon is the Sonja Morgan of this franchise.  

As I was reading your post my first thought was Sonja! I always thought it was bananas she married into such wealth and wound up broke. These women would be better off saving and investing money instead of wasting money on these businesses that don't work out. 

My understanding is Shannon came from a rich family and also married a man who made a lot of money. Her Housewife gig pays very well too. I know Orange County isn't cheap, but aren't there people who manage to live there and haven't had nearly the kind of luck Shannon has had with money throughout her life? She sounds like she's accustomed to spending like crazy and used to everything working out. 

As much as Tamra is not my favorite, it looks like she is responsible with her money. She can afford things like face lifts because she doesn't make a habit of spending money like it comes from tap. 

18 hours ago, 65mickey said:

I never thought that one person's shitty behavior equates to another's criminal behavior. I don't know how this loan/gift suit will turn out. But based on what Shannon said on the Jeff Lewis podcast, Shannon took the money from John under the pretense that it was a loan. At some point she decided that because she paid for dinners and shoes for JJ, she is not going to repay the loan. Legally she may not have to repay the money but morally she should.  There is no way that I would take $75,000 from anyone other than my husband and then refuse to repay the money when they asked for it. That is what a deadbeat does. 

Yeah, Shannon seems to think the generosity on her part throughout her relationship with John entitles her to a ton of money. Even if he was a cheapskate (which is up for debate), it doesn't work like that. You shouldn't spend on someone expecting it to be paid back in whatever way you want. 

My sister's boyfriend has been mooching off her for years. I can't stand it, but it would still be crazy for her to one day suggest he now owes her many thousands of dollars in rent and whatnot. 

Most of us have experienced being generous towards someone who wasn't worth it and didn't reciprocate, but I still believe gifts are gifts and loans are loans. You treat someone because you want to treat them, and if you borrow money, the right thing to do is pay someone back unless they insist you don't.

If John simply wanted his money back, I would actually be on his side. It's everything else that's making me still have a soft spot for Shannon. 

 

[ZettaK]

6 hours ago, 65mickey said:

I remember her saying at one time she spent her entire divorce settlement money on starting her 2 businesses. The first being the now defunct expensive TV dinners. The second being the lemon water business that she hasn't mentioned in 2 or 3 seasons with the exception of early this season when she said something about her DUI having a negative effect on it. Based on the hand written notes about how much money she spent on wining and dining JJ, she is very irresponsible with money. She blows though money and expects someone to hand her $75,000 to pay for bills and a facelift and has no intention of repaying.  In the way she handles her money Shannon is the Sonja Morgan of this franchise.  

It's the second time she is showing on tv "receipts" of what she paid for during the relationship. What kind of a relationship was it that she was writing down, and keeping receipts of what she paid for? She also said openly on the latest episode that her expenses for the first year of the relationship were equal to what the loan was.

Edited October 18 by ZettaK

[Dr Mama]

1 hour ago, ZettaK said:

It's the second time she is showing on tv "receipts" of what she paid for during the relationship. What kind of a relationship was it that she was writing down, and keeping receipts of what she paid for? She also said openly on the latest episode that her expenses for the first year of the relationship were equal to what the loan was.

Maybe she went back to look through her old statements when John started talking about the money as a loan.

[65mickey]

So she has receipts or credit card statements for dinners out. How does that prove that these dinners were with John?  I can see the pane tickets and shoes but not all of the extraneous credit card charges. 

[Dr Mama]

5 hours ago, 65mickey said:

So she has receipts or credit card statements for dinners out. How does that prove that these dinners were with John?  I can see the pane tickets and shoes but not all of the extraneous credit card charges. 

Maybe she didn't go out to eat with too many other people?

[Cosmocrush]

20 hours ago, ZettaK said:

t's the second time she is showing on tv "receipts" of what she paid for during the relationship. What kind of a relationship was it that she was writing down, and keeping receipts of what she paid for? She also said openly on the latest episode that her expenses for the first year of the relationship were equal to what the loan was.

Those scraps of paper, lol, didn't look like she was keeping track in real time.  More like @Dr Mama said, she most likely went through credit card statements when Jansen retained an attorney to get the money back.  But even then it doesn't seem like it was really about the money since she offered a settlement.  Anyone who's retained an attorney knows those fees often out pace the actual amount in dispute.

And speaking of her "receipts"  Shannon may be 60 but keeping track of stuff on crumpled notepad paper makes her look 90.  I laughed as hard as Emily when she pulled them out. 

 

[Tiggertoo]

It made me laugh when Emily and Heather were mocking Shannon’s pieces of paper.  Emily joked have you ever heard of Excel?  Heather said she expected a file and some microfiche.  Microfiche?  That seemed like such a weird comment. 
 

Also, I actually didn’t think it was as funny as they were making it seem.  Maybe you had to be there.

[Cosmocrush]

1 hour ago, Tiggertoo said:

Heather said she expected a file and some microfiche.  Microfiche?  That seemed like such a weird comment. 

Hahaha I forgot about that.  And while I am old enough to know what that is (and used it to research old newspaper articles back in the day) I would have no idea how to put something on the transparent card.  Besides, I'm pretty sure you need a big  old microfiche reader to look at it.  Emily should have included Heather in the "Have you ever heard of Excel?" question.

I guess one of Heather's many assistants organize/take care of all her computer work - much like she sends them on Starbucks runs etc. 

[UsernameFatigue]

39 minutes ago, Cosmocrush said:

Hahaha I forgot about that.  And while I am old enough to know what that is (and used it to research old newspaper articles back in the day) I would have no idea how to put something on the transparent card.  Besides, I'm pretty sure you need a big  old microfiche reader to look at it.  Emily should have included Heather in the "Have you ever heard of Excel?" question.

I guess one of Heather's many assistants organize/take care of all her computer work - much like she sends them on Starbucks runs etc. 

Heather seems very unaware of many things. Twice she referred to the Queen's favourite chocolates as if Queen Elizabeth were still alive, rather than having passed a year and a half before this trip was filmed. I realize QEII was not the queen of the USA but she was beloved by people all over the world. Just not by Heather I guess, who I would imagine only admires one queen, the one she sees in the mirror.

I was similarly amused that on the boat trip last week when the guide said something along the lines of "There is the Eiffel Tower", Tamra craned her neck to see it. Lol. 

I did love Jenn going hard at Tamra at the end of the episode. As usual Tamra folds when someone challenges her. Have we ever seen Tamra pre glam? Or  without makeup in any scene? She is definitely looking rough and older than her age. Can't think of anyone who deserves to age badly more than Tamra. All that hate inside her has to manifest itself somehow. Ugly on the inside, ugly on the outside. 

[tranquilidade]

Shannon had a bad and bitter breakup and her reaction to John is not surprising.  IMO she is entitled to be angry and hurt if she chooses to  and to see him through her lens as it is her opinion.  The fact that she didn't want to give him his money is due to the unhappy ending they had and not a surprise to me at all.  This whole thing really is not that complicated.  He didn't settle when she tried to do so and therefore it goes to the next level.  It's not even really that interesting.   By the way even if he wins he has to then get her to really pay and sometimes that can take a long time.  

Edited October 19 by tranquilidade

[Cosmocrush]

9 minutes ago, tranquilidade said:

By the way even if he wins he has to then get her to really pay and sometimes that can take a long time.

Exactly.  If I recall correctly Jim Bellino was ordered to pay Shannon's legal fees  when he lost that lawsuit but by the sound of it (Shannon talking to Alexis in the beginning of the season) he has yet to do it. 

[65mickey]

4 hours ago, Cosmocrush said:

On 10/18/2024 at 3:06 PM, ZettaK said:

 

Those scraps of paper, lol, didn't look like she was keeping track in real time.  More like @Dr Mama said, she most likely went through credit card statements when Jansen retained an attorney to get the money back

I think she said that to Emily and Heather. But her credit card record would show that she paid for dinners with her credit card. No proof that John was her dinner partner. She has no proof that all of these expensive dinners were with John unless others were present and would verify this. Shannon is spending so much time, effort and money on attorney fees rather than pay what she owes and learn a lesson that it is not smart to try and buy a man's affection. 

34 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Twice she referred to the Queen's favourite chocolates as if Queen Elizabeth were still alive, rather than having passed a year and a half before this trip was filmed.

I heard that also but she did correct herself in the chocolate shop by finally saying "what did the queen like?"

[la patineuse]

4 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Heather seems very unaware of many things. Twice she referred to the Queen's favourite chocolates as if Queen Elizabeth were still alive, rather than having passed a year and a half before this trip was filmed. I realize QEII was not the queen of the USA but she was beloved by people all over the world. Just not by Heather I guess, who I would imagine only admires one queen, the one she sees in the mirror.

I was similarly amused that on the boat trip last week when the guide said something along the lines of "There is the Eiffel Tower", Tamra craned her neck to see it. Lol. 

I did love Jenn going hard at Tamra at the end of the episode. As usual Tamra folds when someone challenges her. Have we ever seen Tamra pre glam? Or  without makeup in any scene? She is definitely looking rough and older than her age. Can't think of anyone who deserves to age badly more than Tamra. All that hate inside her has to manifest itself somehow. Ugly on the inside, ugly on the outside. 

And why did Heather address Kate Middleton first as "Duchess?" While she is a Duchess as well, isn't it more appropriate to address her as the (HRH) Princess of Wales (the higher rank)?

Edited October 20 by la patineuse