Season 12 Episode 12 - Dark Horse

[Gramto6]

After Juan's rejection, a witch offers to fix Whitney's cursed love life; as the joint 40th birthday nears, Whitney fears Todd will be a no-show for their Flamenco performance, and Glenn amps up the pressure on Hunter to propose.

[Mollywolly555]

Wasnt this last week's episode?

Oh, ok, the witch is new,  replacing the matchmaker?  What's next? A wizard? A marriage doula? 

Otherwise,  same old, same old.

 

[JeanJean]

I don't think Whitney lost her vibrancy,  but she has dropped  her annoyingness. I like her now, which wasn't always true in the past.

Edited September 25 by JeanJean

[CainF]

Whitney closes the season with a pity party.  Oh, wait.  That was the entire season, wasn't it?  Tal is more vapid and annoying as ever, and Todd has been either hungover or withdrawing from God knows what or maybe both this whole season. 

This season was a long pilot episode to Whitney's Boring Life.  Nothing but fake, fake, fake, and this crap was the best you could do?  And why hasn't anyone mentioned Hunter's swollen upper right lip?  Seriously, it was the only thing that kept me watching.  

What a waste of being on television, for everybody involved.  Nothing is worse than dull, boring and uninteresting and uninspired.  Oh, wait, there is something far worse - more than 30 seconds of Tal.  

[parkinglola]

2 hours ago, JeanJean said:

I don't think Whitney lost her vibrancy,  but she has dropped  her annoyingness. I like her now, which wasn't always true in the past.

Don't fall for it.She is still rotten.

[BAForever]

8 hours ago, parkinglola said:

Don't fall for it.She is still rotten.

Agree, and I think she is more self-aware than she is 40, without a partner or children which she claims she still wants. Many overweight men and women have partners and children, so I think the weight is not the problem. 

[Pi237]

I'm always shocked at how comfortable they are being naked, not only in front of each other, but the cameras, the public, everyone.  No judgement,just never met such a Nude loving group of friends. Even the newbie, Karen, was running over to strip down before Hunter wisely reminded her, this my sister-taking her clothes off, don't want to be there for that!

Isaiah's journey was quite the emotional rollercoaster.   From reluctant, to Ill just go for it, to instant regret, back to F it no I'm loving this... am I loving this? This was a huge mistake. Wait, others are joining in? Ok this is Awesome! I'm totally ok with this!! Lmao 

The Drama over the flamenco dancers - will Todd show up? Can we remember the steps?! - so dumb. It was just them, yet again, dancing for their friends.  Maybe your friends don't want to see you perform every time you get together?! Its like your child just learning an instrument and every time someone visits, you make them sit and watch them struggle through two notes for ten minutes,and then fake being super impressed Yaaaaay! That was So good!!! Awkward as hell.

[Pi237]

11 hours ago, CainF said:

Todd has been either hungover or withdrawing from God knows what or maybe both this whole season. 

 

this! Every time I saw him this season, he looked twitchy, uncomfortable and grey skinned. That plus the disappearing -in a foreign country - where was he going?! sleeping it off or hiding to use?  Very strange. This narrative of Todd being unreliable and everyone just accepting that's who he is? I doubt remember this being a thing. Was it?   I laughed when he said, where are my gifts?  But he's right. Don't claim it's a birthday celebration for two people, but only 1 gets gifts.  That was rude and showed that Todd was an after thought. 

Whitney's Dad seemed off , too. Maybe just tired, but he seemed zoned out in Every scene except the pre-planned Cringy engagement ring one. 

3 minutes ago, Pi237 said:

 

 

Edited September 25 by Pi237

[princelina]

1 hour ago, Pi237 said:

The Drama over the flamenco dancers - will Todd show up? Can we remember the steps?! - so dumb. It was just them, yet again, dancing for their friends.  Maybe your friends don't want to see you perform every time you get together?! Its like your child just learning an instrument and every time someone visits, you make them sit and watch them struggle through two notes for ten minutes,and then fake being super impressed Yaaaaay! That was So good!!! Awkward as hell.

You have read my mind!  So childish and ridiculous, and she takes it sooooo seriously 😄. I know Glen is just playing along as the annoying father for a proposal that probably already happened in private, but he is cute doing it and I like Hunter and Karen.  I like Jessica and Isaiah too, and I think she should have her "colors" done - her hair and makeup are not flattering to her at all.  When she had her hair in the bun at the dinner where you could only see the dark hair she looked so much better!  Now if she could tone down the brown in her makeup that would help too.  As for Whitney, I do feel sorry for her because I was closing in on 40 when I met my husband and was not happy about it.  But I can tell you what won't get you a man:  a matchmaker who lives far away, fortune tellers, baths with gay male friends, burning kitchen herbs.  Just sayin 😉. The Driver/Brujo's ceremony looks like the one the girls did on Friends and caught their apartment on fire! 😃

Edited September 25 by princelina

[Mollywolly555]

Todd was always likable, funny, snarky, and a amazingly good sport to Whit's childish spoiled demands.

  I hope he is ok.

He did look and dance the flamenco incredibly well which helped Whit look better. Love his signature high kick!!!!

Whit's obsession with his whereabouts on the trip was annoying and so mean-spirited to talk about him  behind his back. Wonder if the others thought about what she said about them when they're not there?

Thank you,  for characterising Tal's patronizing support as vapid. I feel as though he extends Whit's pity party with his pouty sad condolences. He did try to talk about her weight wth her,  but needed to confront her excuses, rather than give in to her weepy (tears which can be manipulative) poor poor pitiful me stance and  over generalizing (catastrophizing) that she will be alone in her 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s.  A bridge too far for him to confront her many psychoses  as a friend. 

Which,  BTW, I wonder what the fuck advice her real therapist provides?

Jessica and Isaiah are too nice for this  shit show. I think gymrats...people who are in the gym alot.  are less concerned about their bodies being seen... undressing or in the showers,etc. Plus they're usually in great shape!

Glenn?? Eh. He's elderly, and they zone out here and there. Plus I think he is very lonely and needed a friend  on this trip .... just somebody to hang with. Whit's kind of short (mean or dismissive) with him and his ideas. He's going to have a hell of a time with Whit's  jealousy and control when he tries to date. 

Yay for Hunter and Gf.  Unfortunately Whit will NEVER let them forget that it was supposed to be HER birthday trip... oh and Todd's (in a smal voice/print)... when they get engaged. Not worth it, Hunter. 

Oh,  and who goes to Spain or any other country far away for only 4 days!!! Even with and extra 2  days for travel, I'm generously allowing... that's a shame. But better than nothing I guess. 

 

[SunnyBeBe]

My only real complaint is the portrayal of Todd that’s crazy.  He was a great character, funny, interesting,  entertaining for many seasons and this new characterization is bizarre and not amusing.  What a waste. I don’t buy it.  
 

I liked the rest and feel Whit has grown as a person.  I see maturity since her mom died.  I hope she continues to grow and find happiness.  
 

Overall, I think the show is average.  The cast members do seemingly care for one another.
 

 Oh, wasn’t Glenn’s other daughter invited on this trip?  I must have missed why she  didn’t make it.  

Edited September 26 by SunnyBeBe

[Meow Mix]

I guess I don's see that much personal growth in Whitney like others here.  She may not be screaming as much and saying fewer vulgar things, but she's still very self-involved and overly dramatic.  When she was supposedly checking on Tal's mental health, all she did was talk about herself and rehash the same pity party about being 40 and single.  Her treatment of Todd who has been a good friend to her for years is disgusting.  She badmouths him to everyone and then at the birthday dinner he doesn't even get a gift.  If the editing is to be believed, there is something seriously off with him.  A good friend would be concerned about what is going on with him, not annoyed that he isn't around to indulge her whims.

I understand getting stood up or bailed on at the last minute stinks.  Been there myself as I am sure many have.  However, Jessica calling Tal in a panic to come and counsel Whitney was annoying.  I just think Whitney milked that to get attention yet again.  I wonder if her actual therapist is able to get through to her at all.  

I agree with others that the flamenco performance was just another Whitney doing a dance recital so her family and friends can blow smoke about how great she is.  All her dances look alike.  Todd has such great balance and can move.  He couldn't even get her to agree to do a full turn.

Glenn needs to knock it off.  Hunter and Karen are grown adults who don't need him to tell them when it is time to get engaged.  I hope if they are engaged that the moment is private without Glenn and Whitney horning in.  It still annoys me that she has to horn in on others' private moments like Jamie and her husband's first look at the wedding.  I'm sure Hunter and Karen can look forward to Whitney following them around with a phone on a stick and stage whispering and gasping.  

It would be nice if what she said at the birthday dinner was truly how she felt.  40 was a long time ago for me and honestly my life has gotten better with age.  There's a lot to be said for realizing that you have to live for you in the end, not follow others' scripts.  And that 40 or any other age isn't one foot in the grave and life is over.

[Yeah No]

Whitney - "Is there something I should have done that I didn't do? Should I have started earlier?"

Well, I hate to say it but the answer is yes, and she should have started to lose weight years ago instead of defiantly shaking her almost 400 lb. body in everyone's face and selling it as some sort of body acceptance crusade to help other people. What BS that was. That was a big excuse and an avoidance of growing up and finding a committed relationship. Now circumstances have forced her to face it at 40.

I understand that we had a pandemic, her mother died and she suddenly woke up and realized she was getting older and had neglected to get on the bus, but she had plenty of time and opportunity to realize this before it felt like it was "too late" (which it isn't but that's another issue).

Where was she when all her female friends were finding partners and having families? Usually women in their 30s feel intense peer pressure to settle down. I don't get how she could have ignored that for so long if marriage and family were THAT important to her. It's not like all the people around her have suddenly gotten married. One by one they've been pairing off in long term relationships and marriage for years. The men in her life achieved it later (and some are still single) but all women are keenly aware that men have more time than they do if they want to have kids. After a certain age it becomes much harder to find a decent single man let alone one that might like an extremely obese woman. She can't have been completely ignorant or oblivious to this.

But even as an obese 40 year old she shouldn't be having this much trouble. I think the only thing standing in her way is herself. As a 66 year old I can't get over how someone at 40 could think they were going to be alone for the rest of their lives. That's just immature thinking. You have to be "in it to win it", you can't just sit around and get jerked around by online idiots. With all of her contacts and other advantages don't tell me she would have that much trouble meeting men. 

I hate to say this but she reminds me of a good long time female friend of mine. She acted like that and it became a self-fulfilling prophecy. She would go out with just anyone and then when it was a disaster say, "See what I mean?" I would try to tell her she could find better (and I knew she could) but she seemed determined to pick the very guys that would not be good prospects. Whitney does this herself. Her weird attraction for long distance foreigners is a classic commitment-phobic tendency. Does she really think that's going to work out? I mean, this is 2024, not 1996. People today are much more aware of the things to avoid when meeting prospects online. What was the point of what she did with that guy in Spain? It was obviously doomed to fail from the start! Come on now, she can't be THAT Stupid! I wasn't that stupid about the internet at her age and that was 26 years ago! It's yet again more of her unconscious self-sabotage. Deep down this woman doesn't value herself at all and doesn't think she deserves a successful relationship. It's really very sad.

Then she tells Tal how good it is that he's doing things to help himself. What is she doing to help herself? A couple of weeks ago in the "Extra Fabulous" episode she was shown going to a grief counselor, but we don't know if there was any follow-up and she's not talking about it in this episode either. I do hope she is continuing with the therapy. I believe that some of this reflection and also the tears might be a side effect of being in therapy so if that's the case I hope she is getting something out of it. The fact that she has dispensed with the annoying-ness and is acting much more open and genuine in her interactions with her friends is a positive sign. I want to say I believe it but I don't have that kind of confidence in her just yet. She is too much of an actress for me not to take whatever she says and does with a huge grain of salt and the fact that she isn't talking about being in therapy is also a reason to be skeptical.

Also, regarding her so-called "Flamenco" dance with Todd - OMG that was cringeworthy compared to what she used to be able to do not that long ago! She reminded me of 70 year old contestants on "Dancing with the Stars" on their first dance! Nothing but arm and hand movements and spinning around. I am really wondering if some of this crisis she is in right now has to do with her physical state which has deteriorated due to her extreme weight. She used to be capable of much more when she was heavier. It looks like all that exercise has taken a toll on her because of her weight but she's not admitting it or what it is. The way she is carrying herself so carefully makes me wonder if she doesn't now have back issues and/or arthritis. That may have been one motivation for her to lose some weight. She may have had to lose it or end up in a wheelchair. I don't think she'll ever admit the truth.

[Dibs]

I hope all this nonsense with "Todd keeps disappearing" and "Todd can't be reached" isn't just a manifestation of the contemporary group text, which I consider to be a scourge on society.  I was once told I "must not want" friends because I'm not a phone person and seldom even turn mine on.  Apparently, that's how friendships are conducted these days.  I even got sucked into one on a group tour by the tour director.  Weeks after the tour, they were still yammering away on there about everything BUT the tour, and I couldn't get out of it (due to something about the variety of devices being used).  If not constantly staring at your phone and typing inane comments 24/7 means one has disappeared, count me gone, too.

Edited September 29 by Dibs

[princelina]

 

[monagatuna]

This is the only place I can ask since I'm not on Reddit, but does anyone know where Whitney might have gotten those long dangly red earrings? Usually I cringe at her cheesy Target aesthetic, but those earrings were super cute.

Edit: I may have found them on Amazon. I may have to make an exception to my Amazon embargo for these.

Edited October 1 by monagatuna

[Mommygetz]

On 9/25/2024 at 9:02 AM, BAForever said:

Agree, and I think she is more self-aware than she is 40, without a partner or children which she claims she still wants. Many overweight men and women have partners and children, so I think the weight is not the problem. 

Her weight is not the problem. She is self-centered and awful. Just the fact that she said, “If I were thin it would be easier to get a man.” shows that she is most definitely NOT self-aware. She can’t get a man because she is not pleasant to be around.

[Pi237]

One of the extra scenes was Whitney struggling to climb a dirt hill in Spain, needing to get on all fours at one point. I was surprised to see that, as she’s lost a lot of weight. Maybe the hill was muddy and steeper than it appeared on tv. Not hating on her for it, I have bad ankles so I’d need to go slow as well, especially down. But she does seem to have lost a good deal of her athleticism. She even remarked that her new goal should be getting back into shape.  If she has dropped a lot of physical activity while losing the weight, it can only do her good to get moving again-for her mental health, as well. She really is a pretty woman, and I think she’s looked the best she ever has this season, the way she dressed and did her makeup etc.  Losing her Mom really rocked her, I’d love to see a comeback next season. No more tears over men. More living life and having fun. Bring the girl friends back, Ashley and Heather. The boys are total wet blankets. 

[Elizzikra]

Quote

But she does seem to have lost a good deal of her athleticism. She even remarked that her new goal should be getting back into shape.

If she is on the GLP1's, she might be struggling with energy. I don't know if it's a side effect of the meds or just the result of taking in much less food than usual, but I am on Ozempic and I am definitely fatigued. Most days, working out at all is outside my energy levels, much less any sort of rigorous workout. 

[swankie]

On 9/25/2024 at 12:00 AM, CainF said:

Oh, wait, there is something far worse - more than 30 seconds of Tal.

Tal kills me with the Whitney butt kissing.  Him gushing over her comes off so phony.  I guess he's  trying real hard not to go the way of Heather and that other girl.  

Glenn is a broken record when it comes to Hunter and his girlfriend.  He reminds me of the old Andy Griffith show where every time Barny sees Andy kiss a girl he runs around town telling everyone Andy is engaged.  (Those reruns still play daily. 😆)  He truly needs to back off and leave them alone.  He's really entering weird territory.  

[monagatuna]

5 hours ago, Pi237 said:

One of the extra scenes was Whitney struggling to climb a dirt hill in Spain, needing to get on all fours at one point. I was surprised to see that, as she’s lost a lot of weight. Maybe the hill was muddy and steeper than it appeared on tv. Not hating on her for it, I have bad ankles so I’d need to go slow as well, especially down. But she does seem to have lost a good deal of her athleticism. She even remarked that her new goal should be getting back into shape.  If she has dropped a lot of physical activity while losing the weight, it can only do her good to get moving again-for her mental health, as well. She really is a pretty woman, and I think she’s looked the best she ever has this season, the way she dressed and did her makeup etc.  Losing her Mom really rocked her, I’d love to see a comeback next season. No more tears over men. More living life and having fun. Bring the girl friends back, Ashley and Heather. The boys are total wet blankets. 

Age will do that to you. Hitting 40 (well, and the pandemic messed us all up) was like hitting a brick wall for me, and my formerly athletic (though not all the athletes rolled into one) self had to work much harder to get back into shape. I also have to spend a lot more time rehabbing after hard workouts, whereas eight years ago, it was nothing for me to run 10 miles at 4 am and lift weights or go skydiving later that morning. Now, I'm doing periodic massages, daily scraping and stretch/yoga, and dietary changes just to avoid injury and keep my energy up. Add an extra 300 pounds to your frame, as well as a near lifetime of bad habits and poor health, and it's even more dramatic. 

Whitney's never been particularly athletic or talented, but when she was younger she could fake it better. Getting older is a privilege, but it's humbling. 

Like you, I would really love to see more Ashley and Heather. They're funny while still being normal. 

[Yeah No]

12 minutes ago, monagatuna said:

Age will do that to you. Hitting 40 (well, and the pandemic messed us all up) was like hitting a brick wall for me, and my formerly athletic (though not all the athletes rolled into one) self had to work much harder to get back into shape. I also have to spend a lot more time rehabbing after hard workouts, whereas eight years ago, it was nothing for me to run 10 miles at 4 am and lift weights or go skydiving later that morning. Now, I'm doing periodic massages, daily scraping and stretch/yoga, and dietary changes just to avoid injury and keep my energy up. Add an extra 300 pounds to your frame, as well as a near lifetime of bad habits and poor health, and it's even more dramatic. 

Whitney's never been particularly athletic or talented, but when she was younger she could fake it better. Getting older is a privilege, but it's humbling. 

Like you, I would really love to see more Ashley and Heather. They're funny while still being normal. 

That's interesting, maybe I'm different. I've had periods of less activity then went back to it and was able to work up to my former level of athleticism, it just took longer the older I got. For the first year of the pandemic I wasn't as active because we were all hunkering down at home and I was grieving my father's death (he died of Covid in early April of 2020 in NYC). But by 2021 I started slowly getting back into walking and in a few months was back to my former level. The point is that it was achievable for me even over 40. It doesn't look like Whitney is even trying to get back there. There might be a few reasons for that.

I think at Whitney's weight it's more a matter of "you use it or you lose it" and she probably didn't keep up the level of exercise she did before the pandemic and at her weight it became too hard to get back up to it. I don't think it would be as hard for someone much less heavy than she is to achieve. It might take longer at 40 but I'm in my 60s and it wasn't impossible for me. Plus I think she has other issues she's not talking about, like this foot injury she talks about was probably more than she's saying it was and I'll bet she has pain now from whatever she did to hurt herself that's standing in the way of her getting back into shape.

[Mollywolly555]

Another extra scene was Whit  crowing to her family and friends abt wearing a heel.. 1 inch or 1.5 inches...IDK..   for the flamenco dance  in front of her family.  "Look at me everyone, I danced in a heel!" 

Seriously, 4 year old level of "Look at me, Look at me, Look at me!!!!" 

They all laughed and applauded heartily to appease the toddler. 

Lord, have mercy on us all.

[Dibs]

One unfortunate side effect of these GLP-1s is sarcopenia -- the loss of muscle mass, strength, and function which is normally associated with aging, but which appears to be accelerated in users of this drug.  Should be interesting to see the long-term ramifications with now one in seven Americans taking it.  Whitney was definitely having trouble scaling that hill and even controlling her descent and noted that her elderly father, in contrast, was acing it.

Edited October 4 by Dibs

[Dibs]

.

Edited October 4 by Dibs

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, Dibs said:

One unfortunate side effect of these GLP-1s is sarcopenia -- the loss of muscle mass, strength, and function which is normally associated with aging, but which appears to be accelerated in users of this drug.  Should be interesting to see the long-term ramifications with now one in seven Americans taking it.  Whitney was definitely having trouble scaling that hill and even controlling her descent and noted that her elderly father, in contrast, was acing it.

Yeah I watched that scene and it was even worse than I was expecting. I would have no problem with that hill and I'm about 5'2", 198 lbs. and 26 years older than she is. But I walk a LOT and maybe it's a good thing I can't take those weight loss drugs given what you're saying above. I don't need more things causing me to lose muscle mass at my age. I didn't know that was a side effect. The more I hear about those drugs the better I feel about not being able to take them.

[monagatuna]

On 10/3/2024 at 7:56 PM, Yeah No said:

Yeah I watched that scene and it was even worse than I was expecting. I would have no problem with that hill and I'm about 5'2", 198 lbs. and 26 years older than she is. But I walk a LOT and maybe it's a good thing I can't take those weight loss drugs given what you're saying above. I don't need more things causing me to lose muscle mass at my age. I didn't know that was a side effect. The more I hear about those drugs the better I feel about not being able to take them.

I've got a question about this and will take it to small talk.