Book vs. Film vs. Series

[whiporee]

I thought it might be nice to have a topic to talk about all the derivations between the three interpretations.
 

Spoilers will follow.😀

While I found the original film pretty faithful to the book — a bit more sympathetic to Barbara — the series is taking off in wildly different directions. I think that’s good because very little about the book and the mystery wound work now. DNA testing would have immediately shown Rusty as the dude, for example. Cell phone records would have probably outed B.

But they are making real changes in the story and I wondered how people were reacting. The biggest of them — well, the biggest so far — is getting rid of Sandy Stern and remaking the Horgan character Rusty’s attorney. But also the speed in which they’ve had the election and Rusty’s indictment. I know Carolyn wasn’t pregnant in the book because her having her tubes tied was a major reveal  during Painless’s cross. 

so this has me thinking they may change the ending. Maybe they’re raising up Horgan’s profile because he did it in this version. Or maybe Rusty. 
 

Anyone have any thoughts? 

[KristenR]

2 hours ago, whiporee said:

The biggest of them — well, the biggest so far — is getting rid of Sandy Stern and remaking the Horgan character Rusty’s attorney.

When I heard this I thought it was a terrible idea (and it still may be!) but when Rusty walks into the courtroom and Horgan is there, I actually felt something so maybe it will end up being the right call.

But who knows? The pacing is definitely weird.

Also my prediction, if it's not Barbara...Tommy. He just seems so unnecessarily extra. 

[Anela]

I watched the movie last night, for the first time in decades. I'd forgotten that it was premeditated. That she planned the whole thing, except that she didn't intend for him to be charged.

[Madding crowd]

I hope they don’t change it to have Rusty as the killer because it would just be too predictable and take away the idea of ‘presumed innocent’. I did notice some changes; in the book and movie Rusty did not reignite his affair with Carolyn although he continued to pine for her. He also was not at her apartment that night and his fingerprints were found on a glass that came from his home. I liked the story as it was but I will reserve judgment until I finish the series.

[whiporee]

12 hours ago, Anela said:

I watched the movie last night, for the first time in decades. I'd forgotten that it was premeditated. That she planned the whole thing, except that she didn't intend for him to be charged.

In the book Lip presents the theory that Barbara planned for him to be charged and convicted. Rusty gave her the benefit of the doubt, but the book presents the case for Barbara's intentions as harder to delineate. 

[whiporee]

I watched episode 2, and I'm reaching the conclusion this is just a totally different story. There are so few similarities between them at this point that spoilers don't even matter. 

Just for the basics, we've got the judge gender swapped, which is fine except it does take away the history between Little and Carolyn (also, I assume, takes away Judge Motherfucker). We've also taken away the history of Horgan and Carolyn, and I imagine we're taking away the kind of slavish devotion Tommy had to her.  We genderswapped Lipranzer, but aside from the best-buddy aspect of that relationship I don't know how much damage it did (except that Lip did hide the glass after he was taken off the case, and his new cop buddy seems to be a lot less helpful). We added two teenage kids (in the original their son was very young) that Rusty confesses the affair to, and we've made Barbara not a repressed math doctoral student who gave up her career to be a SAHM but apparently someone who works public facing in an art gallery.  

In both the book and the movie, there was never any public confirmation that Rusty and Carolyn had an affair at all. That was a key part of the case being dismissed. Now he fathered her baby and everyone knows. In addition, one of the key points of the book (less in the movie) was that Rusty knew pretty early that Barbara had done it. He knew it from the glass at the bar (which would have made one too many, but Barbara brought it from home). He found and cleaned the murder weapon (the thingamajig). Police, ME and prosecutorial  incompetence was a huge part of the book (less in the movie).

IN other words, it's so different that the only things that remain the same are is the title, logline and some character names. I'm a little disappointed at that because I really love the book (and its sequel), but at least now I kno wI'll be surprised. If not by the ending itself, at least in how they get there. 

[EtheltoTillie]

I just rewatched the movie after not seeing it for 30-plus years.  I have not reread the book.  One of the key plot points was that Carolyn had her tubes tied, so that was Barbara's big mistake--about the spermicide.  She could not have known.  Since TV Carolyn is already pregnant, that's a different story altogether. 

[Anela]

I didn't know there was a book, and a sequel? 

[blixie]

Was Carolyn tied up the same in the movie and book? I don't recall it in the movie but it is referenced in the book wiki which I read so long ago I can't recall. It just seems to make Barbara being the culprit on her own so much less likely especially if Carolyn's body was moved as well. That is a lot of rigamarole to be doing by yourself and Ruth Negga is tiny. I do think the show is maybe going to make it be Rusty because he's behaving so unhinged re: the whole case. 1987 or 1990 Rusty could reasonably expect to not be caught out but this version not realizing he should of lawyered up/fessed immediately to the relationship and stalking if he truly were innocent is weird, so I'm thinking he snapped and doesn't remember killing her. But Tommy is also a strong suspect.

[Spring Summerfield]

The book and movie provided background on the affair that made Rusty more sympathetic (nerdy guy amazed that someone as hot as Carolyn would ever be interested in him and didn't realize it was a game to her). The Netflix series Rusty is just some average guy who had an affair with his average co-worker, which has been done so many times before. 

I think this Netflix series suffers from the omission of the Sandy Stern character. He was entertaining and played an important role. The Horgan character in the series is boring. There's been no mention of Horgan's affair with Carolyn, so I assume it didn't happen in this version.

I was also surprised that Carolyn was pregnant since having her tubes tied was such a pivotal plot point in the book and movie.

 

 

[EtheltoTillie]

On 6/16/2024 at 9:30 PM, Anela said:

I didn't know there was a book, and a sequel? 

The first book was a big best seller.  Then the author has written a fair number of additional legal thrillers over the years.  One was apparently a sequel to this.

[Spartan Girl]

On 6/27/2024 at 6:38 AM, Spring Summerfield said:

The book and movie provided background on the affair that made Rusty more sympathetic (nerdy guy amazed that someone as hot as Carolyn would ever be interested in him and didn't realize it was a game to her). The Netflix series Rusty is just some average guy who had an affair with his average co-worker, which has been done so many times before. 

I never found Rusty to be sympathetic in the book/movie. We can side-eye Carolyn for being willing to fuck a married man for kicks, but it takes two to tango. Rusty cheated on his wife and wanted to keep cheating on her and he got so obsessed with Carolyn that he basically stalked her. Raymond reading him for filth in episode 4 pretty much summed it up: you could give him a bunch of diagnoses/excises, like “I can’t believe my hot coworker wants to sleep with me”, and it would all sum up to “pig.” 

I don’t want Barbara to be the killer this time because it’s all so trite, but we’ll see. If nothing else, at least this series is doing a better job of moving past sexist stereotypes than the Fatal Attraction series.

Edited June 29 by Spartan Girl

[Spring Summerfield]

Rusty definitely wasn't a good husband in the book or movie, but when I said "more sympathetic," I meant the book and movie provided more background information about his state of mind. To me, being a nerdy guy who had never had a hot girl interested in him certainly didn't justify cheating on your wife but that information did make it easier to see why Rusty found Carolyn hard to resist.  Rusty in the series is just as bad, but I think the book and movies had a more interesting perspective.

[Spartan Girl]

12 hours ago, Spring Summerfield said:

Rusty definitely wasn't a good husband in the book or movie, but when I said "more sympathetic," I meant the book and movie provided more background information about his state of mind. To me, being a nerdy guy who had never had a hot girl interested in him certainly didn't justify cheating on your wife but that information did make it easier to see why Rusty found Carolyn hard to resist. 

Ah yes, The Joss Whedon Excuse.

Edited July 2 by Spartan Girl

[EtheltoTillie]

Maybe now if Ray is dead they will be able to bring in the Sandy Stern character. If so it still seems like a pointless exercise. 

[EtheltoTillie]

I’m commenting here in the comparison thread, because I want to reference the movie. In the movie I think Barbara wanted to frame Rusty, not just get rid of Carolyn.  But her revenge attempt failed because of her contraceptive mistake. It really worked as a story. 

To make a series, they felt the need to change the outcome completely.  I didn’t buy any of it. It was boring and dragged out. And I thought the solution was not earned. It felt like eight weeks of red herrings produced by throwing darts at a list of characters

[Anela]

52 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I’m commenting here in the comparison thread, because I want to reference the movie. In the movie I think Barbara wanted to frame Rusty, not just get rid of Carolyn.  But her revenge attempt failed because of her contraceptive mistake. It really worked as a story. 

To make a series, they felt the need to change the outcome completely.  I didn’t buy any of it. It was boring and dragged out. And I thought the solution was not earned. It felt like eight weeks of red herrings produced by throwing darts at a list of characters

That's why I bowed out: I got tired of shows with constant red herrings. It's one thing if it's enjoyable, but this wasn't. 

[oceanblue]

The 1990 movie was so much better.   The wife and mistress were not fleshed out but it was 2 hours v. 8.  It came across as Rusty didn't know either of them as well as he thought he did, he saw them as one dimensional and it was told from his POV.   Over the course of 8 hours it was just lame.  Plus we saw more from the women's POV and there was more going on with Barbara and less with Carolyn. The end was a well thought out surprise v.  a yawn,

[oceanblue]

What a complete waste of time.   

[cpcathy]

While it wasn’t my favorite, I’ll take the series over the film any day. I hated the ending, Bonnie Bedelia’s character was such a wuss, her end speech, in the third person, was awful. Ruth Negga at least came off like a real human being.

I really liked Gyllenaal and especially Sarsgaard. Interesting that they didn’t include Raul Julia’s character, guess they thought they couldn’t replicate his greatness.

[Irlandesa]

56 minutes ago, cpcathy said:

Interesting that they didn’t include Raul Julia’s character, guess they thought they couldn’t replicate his greatness.

I wonder if it's related to a rights issue.  Turow has written books around that character without Rusty.  And there is even a mini-series adaptation of one of those books available on Tubi. So another production company might have rights to that character that the Apple TV producers didn't acquire.

[Madding crowd]

The book and movie did show more about Carolyn that was missing here. It showed she was insanely ambitious and only slept with Rusty until she could find someone higher up to sleep with which she did. The actress in this series was very bland and we didn’t get that ambition angle. 

[emilicika]

On 7/1/2024 at 3:04 PM, Spring Summerfield said:

Rusty definitely wasn't a good husband in the book or movie, but when I said "more sympathetic," I meant the book and movie provided more background information about his state of mind. To me, being a nerdy guy who had never had a hot girl interested in him certainly didn't justify cheating on your wife but that information did make it easier to see why Rusty found Carolyn hard to resist.  Rusty in the series is just as bad, but I think the book and movies had a more interesting perspective.

In general, I agree with you. I also want to add. The book is always the best option, as it provides depth that movies and TV series often lack.

[Sweet-tea]

On 6/27/2024 at 5:38 AM, Spring Summerfield said:

The book and movie provided background on the affair that made Rusty more sympathetic (nerdy guy amazed that someone as hot as Carolyn would ever be interested in him and didn't realize it was a game to her). The Netflix series Rusty is just some average guy who had an affair with his average co-worker, which has been done so many times before. 

I think this Netflix series suffers from the omission of the Sandy Stern character. He was entertaining and played an important role. The Horgan character in the series is boring. There's been no mention of Horgan's affair with Carolyn, so I assume it didn't happen in this version.

I was also surprised that Carolyn was pregnant since having her tubes tied was such a pivotal plot point in the book and movie.

 

 

I agree. I just finished the series. I read the book a long time and watched the movie many years ago, but I preferred both to this series. One thing that struck me is Carolyn was much more alluring in the movie. I believe Greta Scacchi played her, and I could see why Rusty was obsessed with her. It's hard for me to grasp in this series because I don't think the actress is that attractive or interesting, and Rusty is also a little bland. 

There were so many changes as others have named that this seemed like a different story that was loosely based on the book. 

Some of these stories are better in a two-hour movie, because there is momentum built that isn't always successful in 7 or 8 episodes, especially with all the flashbacks. I never really saw Rusty's relationship with Carolyn as it was devleoping, just snippets. Having said that, I believe the film also used flashbacks, but IMO they were used more effectively. 

Echoing the comments about red herrings. Drives me crazy. So many of these limited series use that device.  

After watching this, I want to watch the movie again. 

 

 

Edited August 23 by Sweet-tea

[Sweet-tea]

On 7/28/2024 at 6:42 PM, Madding crowd said:

The book and movie did show more about Carolyn that was missing here. It showed she was insanely ambitious and only slept with Rusty until she could find someone higher up to sleep with which she did. The actress in this series was very bland and we didn’t get that ambition angle. 

Yes! This made the series less interesting to me. It was hard for me to see why he was so obsessed with Carolyn, and I didn't buy the scene where he said he fell in love with her when she was preparing the little girl's testimony. It wasn't impactful to me. I don't know if the actress was the issue or the scene itself wasn't written that well.

I thought the film's depiction of how Carolyn manipulated him and he lost control of everything in his life due to the power she had over him before just discarding him was more interesting. In order to paint her this way, they needed the second character that she slept with, and they omitted it in this series. I think they were trying to make her more sympathetic, but I just didn't like her that much.

Carolyn in the film wasn't really sympathetic either as she used men, but there was a vibrance to her that is missing her. 

Edited August 23 by Sweet-tea

[emilicika]

On 6/15/2024 at 11:24 PM, whiporee said:

I watched episode 2, and I'm reaching the conclusion this is just a totally different story. There are so few similarities between them at this point that spoilers don't even matter. 

Just for the basics, we've got the judge gender swapped, which is fine except it does take away the history between Little and Carolyn (also, I assume, takes away Judge Motherfucker). We've also taken away the history of Horgan and Carolyn, and I imagine we're taking away the kind of slavish devotion Tommy had to her.  We genderswapped Lipranzer, but aside from the best-buddy aspect of that relationship I don't know how much damage it did (except that Lip did hide the glass after he was taken off the case, and his new cop buddy seems to be a lot less helpful). We added two teenage kids (in the original their son was very young) that Rusty confesses the affair to, and we've made Barbara not a repressed math doctoral student who gave up her career to be a SAHM but apparently someone who works public facing in an art gallery.  

In both the book and the movie, there was never any public confirmation that Rusty and Carolyn had an affair at all. That was a key part of the case being dismissed. Now he fathered her baby and everyone knows. In addition, one of the key points of the book (less in the movie) was that Rusty knew pretty early that Barbara had done it. He knew it from the glass at the bar (which would have made one too many, but Barbara brought it from home). He found and cleaned the murder weapon (the thingamajig). Police, ME and prosecutorial  incompetence was a huge part of the book (less in the movie).

IN other words, it's so different that the only things that remain the same are is the title, logline and some character names. In general, I agree with you. I also want to add. The book is always the best option, as it provides depth that movies and TV series often lack. In literature, the author has more space to develop characters. We once had an experiment at school. We had to watch a movie and then write about it, which I couldn’t do and I asked write my essay for me, I used https://ca.edubirdie.com/write-my-essay-for-me for this. And read a book and also write a short story, so after the book I did it all. This proves that after the book you have more vocabulary and the text has a completely open meaning. I'm a little disappointed at that because I really love the book (and its sequel), but at least now I kno wI'll be surprised. If not by the ending itself, at least in how they get there. 

Yes, I have never seen anything like this before.

Edited August 27 by emilicika