S01.E04: Ave Verum Corpus

[ottoDbusdriver]

So, four episodes in and I really haven't got any grasp on what the hell is going on.

 

Jack and Gary crash the Cranfield's death/mummification/whatever and get some prime photos of Amy doing weird shit.

I'd like to see her talk her way out of that, but I'm just so bored with her story.

 

And then there's the hundreds of years old foundation that seems to be involved with Cranfield, and owns that empty building, and somehow Amy is set to become a member of the trust's board when Cranfield dies.

 

Sidenote:  a brief cameo by Lt. Gaeta from BSG (Alessandro Juliani) as a security guard on Cranfield's estate.

 

Bill Anderson is dead, but says he built a ghost detection machine.  But are they really ghosts or something else ? Demons ?  Poltergeists ? Still don't know.

 

How is Shepherd not in jail ?  Goes to no effort to conceal his identity during the assassination, and he's killed a lot of people.

 

The whole story with Madison/Marcus is equally confusing -- Madison keeps referring to 'the man inside' controlling her, we know it's Marcus but how come he doesn't just takeover by reading the number 9 or having the clock strike 9 or some other nonsense that seems to trigger the ghost/alien/whatever takeover (it's really inconsistent).  No idea what the '503' had to do with anything (was that part of her parent's phone number), but she acted like it was a eureka moment in the diner.  Thank goodness that Mariners didn't get a higher score in that game, or she would still be in that diner.  And the Madison/Marcus acting is still pretty bad .

 

Ave Verum Corpus translates as "Hail True Body", and is the name of a Mozart piece.  Was it the piece that Madison was playing in her dream that she was touring her house with her parents ?

[ZoqFotPik]

The whole story with Madison/Marcus is equally confusing -- Madison keeps referring to 'the man inside' controlling her, we know it's Marcus but how come he doesn't just takeover by reading the number 9 or having the clock strike 9 or some other nonsense that seems to trigger the ghost/alien/whatever takeover (it's really inconsistent).  No idea what the '503' had to do with anything (was that part of her parent's phone number), but she acted like it was a eureka moment in the diner.  Thank goodness that Mariners didn't get a higher score in that game, or she would still be in that diner.  And the Madison/Marcus acting is still pretty bad .

 

I think I can answer your '503' question. 503 is one of the area codes for northwest Oregon, so it probably the trigger for her to remember her home phone number. And in the first episode, Robert Forster's character says something to effect of "Some of them fight it. Sometimes it takes years as the older one doesn't want to let go." so Madison's and Amy's, for that matter, behavior is consistent with what little we know of the process. And I totally agree about Madison/Marcus acting, it is just so bad, especially when she is trying to be menacing or intimidating.

 

How is Shepherd not in jail ?  Goes to no effort to conceal his identity during the assassination, and he's killed a lot of people.

 

Powerful friends? That's the only answer I can come up with. Although, I believe this is the only time where actually left witnesses.

 

Ave Verum Corpus translates as "Hail True Body", and is the name of a Mozart piece.  Was it the piece that Madison was playing in her dream that she was touring her house with her parents ?

According to closed captions, which is a very good way to identify music, it was. 

Edited September 14, 2014 by ZoqFotPik

[kwerkee]

Madison/Marcus acting is still pretty bad .

The diner scene was unintentionally funny because she was attempting I don't know, a lightbulb moment? Screaming does not a thespian make. Or when she attempted a Marcus takeover scene in the office, with her raising her head all dramatically.

Why did Madison call her mother Allison, instead of 'mom'?

So basically, it's ghosts taking over bodies, via a mummification ritual. That's as much as I got out of this episode. Since the ritual looked like they needed quite a few helpers, I assume there's an underground group of mummifiers that helped Marcus get into Madison.

ETA: I just remembered the Asian lady in the pilot that gave Marcus the book and was shot by James Frain.

Billy Henderson's machine can see these spirits. OK but I don't see why it justified killing his entire family. The public would be cynical and just make fun of him.

Edited September 14, 2014 by kwerkee

[ottoDbusdriver]

Why did Madison call her mother Allison, instead of 'mom'?

 

That was weird, because Madison called her mother 'mommy' in the first episode.  Plus it was weird that she had written Alison's name numerous times in that book she's carrying.

 

And there has been zero information on what the strange sounds are on the phone ?  It's happened several times now and there's been no explanation or even a hint of what that's all about.

[mjc570]

What a mess. I didn't read the book, and don't think I should have to make sense of the show. At this point, all I have is just some general idea of what's involved (possession of successive bodies, one of whom made a deal to kill off the others). I didn't think I was the kind of viewer who had to be led by the hand, but at this point, we should know just not what is happening, but why. And, hate to be mean, but the Madison actress is just not capable of handling the role - I guess we're just supposed to be struck by the contrast of her youthful appearance and her tough-talking violent Marcus character, but she can't carry it off.

I'm watching this for John Simm (do love his reading glasses), but he should have stayed on Mars.

Thanks for the Gaeta reference - I knew he looked familiar.

[editorgrrl]

Anyone else think Rose sounds like Allison Janney?

Gary [to Jack]: The rest of Cranfield's money—nearly $6 billion—is deposited into the account of an obscure, 100-year-old charity based in London called the Psychomacy Trust, one hour after his death.

Then in their next scene, Gary tells Jack that the Crane family have been trustees on the board of the Psychomacy Trust for the past 150 years, and "the Psychomacy Trust goes back two, three hundred years." How can viewers figure out what's going on when TPTB can't even keep their facts straight?

Edited to add that according to a comment at http://community.ew.com/2014/09/13/intruders-recap-ave-verum-corpus/ it's "Psychomancy," as in communication with spirits, especially those of the dead. The closed captions said "Psychomacy," but they also said Richard Shepherd inhaled sharply when his phone rang, so…

Edited September 14, 2014 by editorgrrl

[Cobb Salad]

A lot of this episode seemed silly, from Madison's struggle in the diner to Jack and Gary's discovery of the ritual.

Even though the house is within a somewhat well enclosed area, why would the ritual take place in front of an open window? Jack and Gary's appearance at that right time looked too convenient. Then Madison's self revelation in the bookstore then the diner didn't look natural. What year is this story supposed to be taking place? For a 9 year old to know what a pay phone is then be able to find one is odd or maybe it was the other way around. It looks like after she was taken out of Todd's office she was just able to leave - in reality wouldn't someone call the police or child protective services to pick up a weirdly acting child?

Edited September 14, 2014 by Cobb Salad

[editorgrrl]

A lot of this episode seemed silly, from Madison's struggle in the diner to Jack and Gary's discovery of the ritual.

Even though the house is within a somewhat well enclosed area, why would the ritual take place in front of an open window?

I was able to handwave away the open window, since the house was gated and guarded—and Jack & Gary were peeping from the backyard. But then Amy draws the curtains once there's nothing more to see?!

Additional thoughts: how super-smart is Richard that he can decode a cipher while driving?

Marcus Fox is a pedophile in the body of a nine-year-old girl? Ick.

Edited September 14, 2014 by editorgrrl

[lucindabelle]

I actually felt that after no exposition suddenly it was ALL exposition,

Why did it take the guy Marcus/Madison went to see so long to catch on?

If it takes a while for the old personality to "go down" and they only have the body for 9 years, what is the point? Seems like you'd only have a few years in each one and not much time to actually, you know, live, enjoy yourself, make money, love, have sex, all the things you want to do in life.

And to be in the body of a child would really suck.

I don't mind the girl so much but her going back and forth should be more dramatic. I did like the moment in the office when she apologized in horror.

The ritual seems silly, and the shouted conversation in the car was just funny.

That said I didn't fall asleep watching so that's a plus.

[seamusk]

Well, I may be the only one, but i'm really enjoying this.  It's a rather complex conspiracy they are unraveling so I don't see the issue with not knowing everything after four episodes. I think if that it's complex enough that if it were revealed folks would be complaining about it being too much information at once (though that is the nature of forum discussions to some degree). They are actually uncovering significant information in each episode.  I'm not totally sure what's going on yet, but i'm getting new information each week, just as Jack is basically, and i'm finding it interesting.  I have no idea how it's all going to come together.  I like that, like Jack, we are confused on the same level.  We understand more than he does even, so imagine being in his shoes.

 

I also think the Madison actor is very good.  I think the reason it appears she isn't is because she is not behaving at all like a 9 year old.  But that's the point. The threats should sound stupid and ridiculous coming from her.

 

It was a bit convenient that they were able to so easily find an open window where they could watch the ceremony. I'm fairly easy on those things as it happens on even the best shows. Still, I'm sure there is a better way to write that discovery. 

[jelaine]

I honestly, desperately want the next person Madison/Marcus says, "what goes around, comes around" to, responds  with "Yes, it does. Are you ready for it?"

[Cobb Salad]

Well, I may be the only one, but i'm really enjoying this.  It's a rather complex conspiracy they are unraveling so I don't see the issue with not knowing everything after four episodes.

 

It was a bit convenient that they were able to so easily find an open window where they could watch the ceremony. I'm fairly easy on those things as it happens on even the best shows. Still, I'm sure there is a better way to write that discovery.

I think considering who the show runner is it's expected we don't find out everything right away. I like that too.

Regarding the ceremony it probably would have been better if Jack/Gary stumbled on to it when they were in that building but at least we found out something the way it happened.

[ZoqFotPik]

 

Why did it take the guy Marcus/Madison went to see so long to catch on?

Playing dumb in order to see if Marcus would reveal more information than he intended?

 

 

It's a rather complex conspiracy they are unraveling so I don't see the issue with not knowing everything after four episodes. I think if that it's complex enough that if it were revealed folks would be complaining about it being too much information at once (though that is the nature of forum discussions to some degree).

 

I think considering who the show runner is it's expected we don't find out everything right away. I like that too.

The thing is this an eight episode season and is already half over. I think we should know more than we do at this point. 

[riley702]

How is Shepherd not in jail?  Goes to no effort to conceal his identity during the assassination, and he's killed a lot of people.

 

And the Madison/Marcus acting is still pretty bad .

Yes to both of these. Frain's a striking-looking man, so it's not like he blends in well anyway. And I'm not menaced by Madison channeling Marcus. I just want to smack that hateful look off her face and tell her to go to her room.

 

Anyone else think Rose sounds like Allison Janney?

Yes!!

 

Marcus Fox is a pedophile in the body of a nine-year-old girl? Ick.

 

 That was genuinely disturbing. What if he made her masturbate to get his jollies?

 

If it takes a while for the old personality to "go down" and they only have the body for 9 years, what is the point? Seems like you'd only have a few years in each one and not much time to actually, you know, live, enjoy yourself, make money, love, have sex, all the things you want to do in life.

And to be in the body of a child would really suck.

Do we actually know that they only have the body for nine years, or was that an assumption with all the references to 9? Why would they put someone in the body of an infant, so that they're only 9 when it's time to go? Cranfield was old...  Also, why "wake" them up just when it's time to move on? That would be a particularly demented kind of immortality, to just remember who and what you are and then BOOM! start all over again not remembering a damned thing.

I don't mind the girl so much but her going back and forth should be more dramatic. I did like the moment in the office when she apologized in horror.

Yes, that worked well for me, as well. I don't have a problem with her portrayal of Madison. She just doesn't do Marcus well. Granted, it's probably beyond the stretch of most child actors, so what are you going to do? That was something that probably worked much better in the book (which I haven't read, and don't want to be spoiled).

[editorgrrl]

Do we actually know that they only have the body for nine years, or was that an assumption with all the references to 9? Why would they put someone in the body of an infant, so that they're only 9 when it's time to go? Cranfield was old... Also, why "wake" them up just when it's time to move on?

I think the Intruders can only be activated when the host's age is a multiple of 9. Didn't Amy just celebrate her 36th birthday?

I don't know how an Intruder switches hosts. It must have to do with the ceremony at which Cranfield was wrapped like a mummy. Gary tells Jack that Marcus disappeared 9 years ago, so that suggests hosts are entered at birth (or in utero).

Marcus' Book of 9 says "there are places on Earth where it's easier to cross between the living and the dead and back again." I assume the empty building is one of those places. So why wasn't the ceremony held there?

Edited September 17, 2014 by editorgrrl

[lucindabelle]

Hah, I like the "demented immortality," riley7. But I still don't understand, if you're just "activated" at a multiple of 9, is it just coincidence that people are also dying or being killed then? I realize I'm not supposed to understand. But the complete lack of understanding is actually not helping with suspense because I'm not caring about anything much. That said, I did enjoy the last episode-- maybe because for once there was some exposition.

 

I too have no problem with the actress playing Madison/Marcus. I just think anybody would sound silly trying to make "what goes around, comes around" menacing. It's like trying to make "groovy" or "far out" menacing. It just ... isn't.

[editorgrrl]

Hah, I like the "demented immortality," riley7. But I still don't understand, if you're just "activated" at a multiple of 9, is it just coincidence that people are also dying or being killed then? I realize I'm not supposed to understand. But the complete lack of understanding is actually not helping with suspense because I'm not caring about anything much. That said, I did enjoy the last episode-- maybe because for once there was some exposition.

Who died when their age was a multiple of 9? I never heard Cranfield's age mentioned. But Ray did say Cranfield was one of those people who knows from an early age exactly what to do to get ahead in life. (In other words, "an old soul.")

Madison is able to fight Marcus, while Amy has embraced her inner Russian. That makes sense if they were invaded at birth/in utero—the Russian had 25 more years to establish control over his host.

[ganesh]

The thing is this an eight episode season and is already half over. I think we should know more than we do at this point.

 

I think the focus should be on Jon Simm nearly exclusively with Marcus/Madison as more of a side plot because Simm is just better and his plot is more straightforward: he wants to find out wtf happened to his wife. If this were a 10 episode season I'd be fine at this point.

 

But since it's halfway over, I think we should have gotten to this point by E3. 

 

The problem with adapting a book is that you need to pare down from book to screen severely. I think they just through too much in at the pilot. I'd even go so far as to eliminate Marcus entirely and let Fain be Amy's shephard. I don't think TPTB are deliberately withholding information just be be obtuse, but that the material is pretty dense and it takes time to unfold properly.

[TexasGal]

Who died when their age was a multiple of 9? I never heard Cranfield's age mentioned. But Ray did say Cranfield was one of those people who knows from an early age exactly what to do to get ahead in life. (In other words, "an old soul.")

Madison is able to fight Marcus, while Amy has embraced her inner Russian. That makes sense if they were invaded at birth/in utero—the Russian had 25 more years to establish control over his host.

The teenage girl that committed suicide had just had a birthday. For some reason I thought it was 17 but maybe it was 18?

I have binge watched on demand, and maybe it makes a better viewing experience that way. I am liking it. I tried to watch the pilot live and fell asleep. I'm also liking the Madison actress, but maybe because it amuses me to watch her screw up her face and spit out horrible things. Which, I guess, is sort of the point.

Oh, and I also think Rose sounds like Alison Janney. I sorta have my fingers crossed that is her, I love her!

[editorgrrl]

The teenage girl that committed suicide had just had a birthday. For some reason I thought it was 17 but maybe it was 18?

You're right, I forgot about Donna. She was activated at age 18, then killed herself.

That's consistent with my speculation that those who are activated at age 9 or 18 are less stable than say, Amy, who's 36.

[millennium]

 And I totally agree about Madison/Marcus acting, it is just so bad, especially when she is trying to be menacing or intimidating.

 

 

In her defense, she's a little girl.   What does she know of hatred, bitterness, fury, impotent rage, vendettas, lust -- all the things she is asked to portray.   She can try to strike the notes, but she hasn't lived enough to know what it is to feel these things.  Stranding an animal like Marcus inside a kid probably seemed good on paper, but it isn't translating to the screen very well.

 

I thought this episode was superior to previous ones.

 

How come when Jack and the other guy saw Cranfield being ceremonially wrapped in bandages, neither one of them said "mummy" or "mummify?"   I see some guy being cocooned in strips of white cloth, I go straight to "mummy."