The Divergent Series

[methodwriter85]

This is a thread to discuss the Divergent series, and spoilers will be included since we will discuss all the books/movies, etc.

 

Shailene and Theo Discuss Insurgent

 

I really liked the second book (although I've avoided the third one because people have said that it makes Mockinjay look incredible), so we'll see how it goes. My friend who didn't read the books thought it was better than the Hunger Games, which I so didn't agree with but maybe that bodes well for the future of the franchise.

 

I think the biggest problem that Divergent had was that it spent so much time setting things up. I also wasn't a fan of the music, and I thought the movie did a bad job in fleshing out anybody who wasn't Tris or Four or Jeanine.  I barely felt anything during the character death scenes because of that. Al's suicide should have been emotional, but it wasn't because we barely saw him and you wouldn't have known that he was supposed to be Tris's good friend before he turned on her in a desperate attempt to avoid becoming factionless.

 

On the other hand, the chemistry between Tris and Four was incredible, I liked how they changed the ending with Jeanine, and I think it has the potential to have a better second movie.

 

I still think it's extremely idiotic to split up the third book into two movies, though. It'd be one thing if Divergent had grossed the kind of money Twilight did, but it didn't. And if the second movie doesn't have any significant box office bump up (or it actually declined), Lionsgate is screwed unless they decide to swallow their pride and decide to say they're only going to do 1 movie for Allegiant after all. They really should have waited until the second movie came out before deciding to do it. My only guess as to why they didn't do that is because they needed to have Shailene and Theo locked in until 2016 and that was their way to ensure they did. From what they said, it'll be two separate shoots. Which is again dumb.

 

It's going to be funny that Theo James is going to be 32 and promoting Allegiant Part II in early 2017. From what people have said about Four in Allegiant, they're really, really going to have to re-tool his character to make it not look weird that he's being played by a 32-year old, because Four is apparently a big ol' teenage emo mess in that.

Edited September 10, 2014 by methodwriter85

[Chicken Wing]

Yay, there's a Divergent thread! I agree that splitting the third book is pointless and stupid, even from the studio's perspective. As unnecessary as it is storywise, I would understand why they would do it from a business perspective if the franchise looks like a big moneymaker and the investment in four films instead of three would be worth their while. But it's not. At the very least, they ought to have waited until shortly before Insurgent's release, when they could at least get real estimates on how that one would do, if not wait until that one came out altogether. Divergent didn't do so smashingly well for them to make such a presumptuous decision for the movie after the next. This will likely backfire on them.

 

And I also agree about Four's character needing to be retooled in Allegiant, because that nonsense will just not work on a 32-year-old man. But then, if they have any sense at all they ought to be hard at work retooling the entire plot and premise of Allegiant altogether, so...

[methodwriter85]

If they really want to take a page out of the success of Hunger Games, they'll open up the movie's perspective beyond just Tris and Four. I think that's a big part of why the Hunger Games had such broad appeal, and why the second installment managed a major worldwide box office gross- it gave you more than just Katniss's view. Honestly, if I wasn't invested in Theo and Shailene's incredible chemistry, I probably wouldn't have bothered seeing the second movie because the first dragged so much. (Dragged, yet for some reason, didn't develop Tris's friends all that well.)

 

Divergent was just on the side of profitable (it's funny that the Fault in Our Stars had much better worldwide gross at a fraction of the budget), and it just baffles me why Lionsgate decided to do this, especially considering that reviews for Divergent were mixed, to put it nicely.

 

All that said, I'm really excited to see what Naomi Watts is going to bring to the Evelyn role, and see what they do with Jeanine. I did like how they tweaked the ending of Divergent and it'll be interesting to see what they'll do with Insurgent.

Edited September 16, 2014 by methodwriter85

[GaT]

Divergent was just on the side of profitable (it's funny that the Fault in Our Stars had much better worldwide gross at a fraction of the budget), and it just baffles me why Lionsgate decided to do this, especially considering that reviews for Divergent were mixed, to put it nicely.

 

 

Because Lionsgate & Summit Entertainment merged, & Summit Entertainment was responsible for the Twilight movies which have become the paradigm for YA fantasy series. 

[benteen]

The Insurgent trailer was posted today and what an ill-advised choice of teaser it was.

[BatmanBeatles]

That...was weird.

[Chicken Wing]

Yeah, the general consensus is equal parts "That CGI is really terrible" and "Why would they choose a simulation as the first teaser when you know none of this stuff is actually happening?"

[methodwriter85]

Exactly...we know from the end of Divergent that Abnegation wasn't destroyed, so eh?

 

 In any event, I do really love the short blonde hair on Tris. It's edgy and it makes sense for the character.

[methodwriter85]

They're getting a new person to score Insurgent.

 

Thank god. I thought the score and music for Divergent was HORRIBLE.

 

That was probably my biggest bitch of the movie, aside from the lack of secondary character development.

[Raja]

Exactly...we know from the end of Divergent that Abnegation wasn't destroyed, so eh?

In any event, I do really love the short blonde hair on Tris. It's edgy and it makes sense for the character.

a trailer shouldn't be for those who know what's actually happening to gush over at their fan conventions. it is for those who skipped the first movie and books. They will try to build a must see event of the month experience

[Chicken Wing]

a trailer shouldn't be for those who know what's actually happening to gush over at their fan conventions. it is for those who skipped the first movie and books.

 

A common criticism I've read is that this teaser actually doesn't do that. A person who hadn't watched the first movie and/or doesn't know what this franchise is about would watch this clip and still have no clue what the hell this movie is. The teaser feels counterintuitive - it isn't really doing anything for the people in the know, nor does it pique any real interest in the rest since it's so obscure and bizarre. It was a strange choice for a first look.

 

They're getting a new person to score Insurgent.

 

Thank god. I thought the score and music for Divergent was HORRIBLE.

 

I second that. I'm thrilled that they seem to be ditching the vocals and going for a regular instrumental score. The Ellie Goulding songs in the background were just not working in the first movie. I don't need Tris's "inner voice" caterwauling in the background. It was more intrusive and distracting than anything.

[absnow54]

A common criticism I've read is that this teaser actually doesn't do that. A person who hadn't watched the first movie and/or doesn't know what this franchise is about would watch this clip and still have no clue what the hell this movie is. The teaser feels counterintuitive - it isn't really doing anything for the people in the know, nor does it pique any real interest in the rest since it's so obscure and bizarre. It was a strange choice for a first look.

This teaser played before Mockingjay, and I found it to be such an interesting contrast, because critic's biggest complaints with Mockingjay was that Katniss was too mopey and not badass enough, and there wasn't enough action. The Insurgent teaser seemed to be the definition of what they were looking for.

[methodwriter85]

I second that. I'm thrilled that they seem to be ditching the vocals and going for a regular instrumental score. The Ellie Goulding songs in the background were just not working in the first movie. I don't need Tris's "inner voice" caterwauling in the background. It was more intrusive and distracting than anything.

 

      When they originally released the "Tris checks out Four's tattoos" scene, the Ellie Goulding music was extremely loud...in the actual movie, they toned it down a bit but it was still pretty intrusive.

Edited December 1, 2014 by methodwriter85

[Chicken Wing]

This teaser played before Mockingjay, and I found it to be such an interesting contrast, because critic's biggest complaints with Mockingjay was that Katniss was too mopey and not badass enough, and there wasn't enough action. The Insurgent teaser seemed to be the definition of what they were looking for.

 

Indeed it's action-y, but action-y about what? Suddenly there's a flying house and Shailene Woodley turns into freaking Spider-Man. None of that has anything to do with what the story is about or what kind of movie it is. If one knew absolutely nothing about the series (Is it a sci fi? Action? Supernatural ghost story? What is this Divergent thing?), it's almost misleading.

[Raja]

Indeed it's action-y, but action-y about what? Suddenly there's a flying house and Shailene Woodley turns into freaking Spider-Man. None of that has anything to do with what the story is about or what kind of movie it is. If one knew absolutely nothing about the series (Is it a sci fi? Action? Supernatural ghost story? What is this Divergent thing?), it's almost misleading.

Assuming the story is what will bring in the audience where that was hit or miss the first time out is problematic. So yes you want to try to get people in to see Spiderwoman before the critics and word of mouth spreads the truth.

[Chicken Wing]

The official Insurgent trailer will be released Friday, December 12.

[methodwriter85]

There's a rumor that the character of Edgar was created to cause a love triangle in the series. Veronica has said emphatically that there won't be one, but I really wouldn't put it past a studio to insert something that changes one of the few things about the series that makes it stand out.

 

I also remember hearing that they didn't release the official trailer with Mockingjay Part 1 like planned because it needed to be tweaked.

[manbearpig]

I really liked the way Insurgent was paced. I'm not necessarily a huge fan of any of the books in the series even though I quite like Tris, but Insurgent was really fun because of the 'one more chapter' feeling it had throughout as crazier and crazier shit continued to happen. Bit weird that such an energetic book was followed up with a boring slog, but watching to see how they even try to make one film out of Allegiant should at least be interesting.

[absnow54]

There's a rumor that the character of Edgar was created to cause a love triangle in the series. Veronica has said emphatically that there won't be one, but I really wouldn't put it past a studio to insert something that changes one of the few things about the series that makes it stand out.

In Insurgent there's almost a love triangle with Peter. I mean if you already have Miles Teller, and he already has built in chemistry with Shailene, and the other dude she made a romance movie with is currently playing her brother... I always thought it was implied that Peter liked Tris through Insurgent, but that gets dropped in the third book when he's just sort of there. Also, I may have been rooting for them to get together because I'm a sucker for that trope.

Edited December 7, 2014 by absnow54

[Chicken Wing]

I mean if you already have Miles Teller, and he already has built in chemistry with Shailene, and the other dude she made a romance movie with is currently playing her brother

 

They might as well go all in and just have them have a four-way.

[methodwriter85]

   In all reality, I'm pretty sure the only thing Edgar serves to do is to replace Edward, who didn't have much to do in the movie since they cut out the subplot of Pete stabbing him in the eye. Still, it's funny to imagine the different changes they'll try to do to make this franchise work more.

[Chicken Wing]

Official Insurgent trailer.

 

What do we think?

[GaT]

Official Insurgent trailer.

 

What do we think?

I'm wondering if they read the same book as me, where did the box come from? 

[Chicken Wing]

Yeah, it's interesting (and perhaps intentional) that the very first thing the trailer discusses, the hook that the film's conflict is apparently going to revolve around, is something that wasn't even in the book.

There is a theory that the box is just the movie's version of how the Edith Prior message is hidden, making it so that it can only be unlocked by a special divergent. Or something.

 

The trailer is very well-done, as far as trailers go. It hits the relevant trailer sweet spots: establishing a hook right away; briefly explaining the plot and the stakes; showing lots of action to entice the viewer. But as far as showing how this is an adaptation of a popular book, it's a little off. It seems to go out of its way to show how the movie is going to be different from the book - which could be a good thing, because goodness knows these books needed to be rewritten, but at the same time it's slightly off-putting. With the Divergent trailer, for instance, I could pinpoint exactly what scenes and parts of the story each of the clips represented. It implied very well how much the movie was going to follow the storyline in the book (which was really to the movie's detriment, but that's another discussion). With this trailer, I can barely identify half of these scenes, and the rest, well, I can more or less figure out what part of the story they're from but they all seem to be changed up or interpreted so differently from the book that it might as well be new.

 

I think Shailene and Theo did say a while back that there would be changes in this movie, more or less following the same general plotline and same themes but still being a very different movie. They weren't kidding. I'm getting a very "same, but totally different" vibe from this trailer. It just feels like they took various scenes from the book to create another story. And I actually think that could be a good thing.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Chicken Wing

[GaT]

I think they've made changes because they're going to do something different at the ending of Allegiant & they're getting people used to the movies being different than the books. Either they're going to change it completely, or make it so vague that you don't really know what happened. After reading Allegiant, I refused to spend any money on the movies, so I haven't seen Divergent yet. It's supposed to be on HBO this week, so I'll watch it & maybe have a better feel for how it compares to the book.

[wanderingstar]

Ugh. I think I'm going to have to see Insurgent because Daniel Dae Kim is a favorite of mine.

[methodwriter85]

    Did I forget the scene or simulation where Tris and Four have sex? Because I don't remember that. But hey, if they're going to go for it, alright.

[GaT]

I finally saw Divergent & the thing that struck me the most was that I don't really remember much from the book LOL. Other than that, it was OK I guess, I don't think it needed to be 2 1/2 hours though. I guess I'll catch Insurgent whenever it finally appears on HBO, because I'm not spending money on that either.

[absnow54]

I caught it on HBO too. I was originally planning on seeing it in the theater because I love the cast, but the last book really turned me off from the series, so I never got around to it. I read the first book over a year ago, which helped, because I could only vaguely remember the basic plot points. Seeing it on screen, the Dauntless were pretty ridiculous. Why are you always running and shouting? Why is it important that you wander around in front of air born knives? Why can't you have walls around your toilet? I thought it was a pretty decent adaptation, but I too will probably wait for Insurgent to premiere on HBO.

[BooBear]

I finally saw Divergent & the thing that struck me the most was that I don't really remember much from the book LOL. Other than that, it was OK I guess, I don't think it needed to be 2 1/2 hours though. I guess I'll catch Insurgent whenever it finally appears on HBO, because I'm not spending money on that either.

I just saw it on HBO. I really disliked it. But I disliked it even more when I read the book (yes I was bored at work today). The book is so much better and seems to be making some sly points about humans and human nature that the movie totally misses.  The movie is like 1% of the book with major scenes cut and pasted in the wrong spots. I also thought Shaline Woodley either sucked or what given bad direction. She has the personality of a mopy mall rat with an ipod on.  The entire Dauntless thing was silly with them jumping off the trains. That alone made me laugh over and over again when they were trying to be serious.  Also, just me or was it impossible to distinguish between he friends, Will and Al. Who ever cast them really likes a certain look.

[KatWay]

I kind of thought the book sucked too, boring, weird world-establishing and Tris has no personality.

 

The only thing I liked about the book that the movie seriously dropped the ball on was that the baffling idiocy of Dauntless was a relatively new phenomenon and they used to be more than stupid grunts doing reckless crap. Because in the movie I could not for the life of me figure out why anybody would want to be in Dauntless where half the applicants end up factionless and the rest is constantly humiliated and under threat of death. Not to mention it didn't seem like a viable environement for anybody older than fourty, so....why would you choose that? At least in the other factions, you had a shot of surviving into your old age.

[methodwriter85]

 Also, just me or was it impossible to distinguish between he friends, Will and Al. Who ever cast them really likes a certain look.

My biggest bitch of the whole movie, aside from Ellie Goulding's wailing, was that the secondary characters save for Tris's mother were so underdeveloped. I felt nothing when Al killed himself, because we didn't know anything about him, as opposed to the book where the betrayal was so pronouced because Al had been the sweet gentle giant with a crush on Tris. I also felt  nothing when Tris had to kill WIll, even though in the book they were supposed to be really good friends, with Tris even knowing Will's sister, because again they didn't do much with him.

 

The one thing this movie/franchise has going for it is the chemistry between James and Shailene, but they've focused so much on the Tris/Four romance and dropped the ball on developing the other characters. Peter, Tori, and Jeanine are the only memorable characters, movie-wise.

[BooBear]

My biggest bitch of the whole movie, aside from Ellie Goulding's wailing, was that the secondary characters save for Tris's mother were so underdeveloped. I felt nothing when Al killed himself, because we didn't know anything about him, as opposed to the book where the betrayal was so pronouced because Al had been the sweet gentle giant with a crush on Tris.

 

I agree but I thought all the actors for Will and Al looked alike so I couldn't really figure out who was Al and who was Will. But yes all the non Tris and Four characters were shockingly ignored. I actually didn't even like the love story. Because it was taken out of context (love scene coming after her friends tried to kill her) it seemed too abrupt and given that Four looks so much older, it is hard to come away not wondering if he has an ulterior motive (if you are just watching the movie) and I don't think that was what was intended.

 

How can a movie be so long and so superficial ... beyond me. I wasn't even sure who Jeanne was until I read the book.

[methodwriter85]

 It's absolutely mind-boggling. It's not like it was action-packed the whole way through. They didn't even develop Christina, who's supposed to be Tris's best friend and plays a big part of the conflict in the next installment.

 

They are extremely lucky they have Shailene Woodley here, because in another actresses's hands this could have been an utter disaster rather than just "kinda meh but okay enough to see."

Edited December 30, 2014 by methodwriter85

[benteen]

I found the little we actually get regarding Peter to be the only interesting thing in Allegiant.  But since they made him a comedy character in the first film, we can forget about seeing that.

 

I'm going to see Insurgent but will not see Allegiant(s) even if I got a free ticket.

[methodwriter85]

   I get the feeling that Allegiant won't resemble the book much. You can already tell by the Insurgent trailer they've changed quite a bit.

[GaT]

   I get the feeling that Allegiant won't resemble the book much. You can already tell by the Insurgent trailer they've changed quite a bit.

The real question is, what are they going to do about the ending? 

Either they're going to have to change it so Tris doesn't die, or make it so ambiguous that you can't tell if she dies or not. Anything else they change is kind of irrelevant, because the ending overshadows everything else.

Allegiant (the book) didn't come out until Divergent (the movie) was already out, so I wonder how much the people associated with the movie knew what was going to happen in the book, or whether they were blindsided.

[methodwriter85]

I bet they were blindsided, and very, very pissed at Veronica Roth.

 

I kept reading the summary of Allegiant and I'm at loss as to how they're going to make this work into two movies.

 

Seriously, Four is just not going to work with 30-year old Theo James playing him. They need to change the character for Allegiant.

Edited January 1, 2015 by methodwriter85

[benteen]

There's not enough in Allegiant for one good movie.  I can't imagine what two movies from a crappy book will be like.  I imagine they'll change a lot.

[Chicken Wing]

Seriously, Four is just not going to work with 30-year old Theo James playing him. They need to change the character for Allegiant.

 

I do wonder if Theo James has read Allegiant yet. (Last I heard, neither he nor Shailene had actually read the last book.) He'd probably be sitting there wondering, "When did my character turn into a chick?"

 

I wonder how much the people associated with the movie knew what was going to happen in the book, or whether they were blindsided.

 

I bet they were blindsided, and very, very pissed at Veronica Roth.

 

Although the studio was quick to issue its vote of confidence that Allegiant wouldn't affect the box office for the first movie, and indeed the movie did fine, I have no doubt it would have done considerably better had Allegiant not been released first.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Chicken Wing

[GaT]

I do wonder if Theo James has read Allegiant yet. (Last I heard, neither he nor Shailene had actually read the last book.) He'd probably be sitting there wondering, "When did my character turn into a chick?"

 

Besides the "big surprise", this was the other thing that made me want to strangle Veronica Roth 

She turned Four, a strong, capable, in charge man into Tobias, an insecure, weak, indecisive boy who wanted his mommy. WTF was she thinking? She completely rewrote him after Insurgent.

[methodwriter85]

Yeah. Casting 30-year old, stoic, very masculine-looking Theo James makes THAT particular characterization impossible to do.

 

I'm really fascinated in seeing whether or not this franchise can actually work, because there are so many things going against it. I'd say it's going to lean towards an Percy Jackson implosion where the second movie effectively ends it, but we'll see.

 

 

There's not enough in Allegiant for one good movie.  I can't imagine what two movies from a crappy book will be like.  I imagine they'll change a lot.

 

Well, given the trailer for Insurgent that shows some new "box" and the clear implication that Tris and Four have sex or at least getting into heavy petting, it's a safe bet they will.

 

They better keep in Lynn being a lesbian in love with Marlene, damn it.

[benteen]

Besides the "big surprise", this was the other thing that made me want to strangle Veronica Roth 

She turned Four, a strong, capable, in charge man into Tobias, an insecure, weak, indecisive boy who wanted his mommy. WTF was she thinking? She completely rewrote him after Insurgent.

 

Tobias still being scared of Daddy was another thing that annoyed me.

The writing was atrocious to begin with because at times I didn't know if I was reading Four or Tobias's POV because they were way too similar.

[nomodrama]

I don't read many YA novels....I'm kind of out of the age range, I'm a bit embarrassed to admit that. My younger sister was my birthing coach when I had my second child, she brought a copy of the Hunger Games into my delivery room and I read it to distract myself. Otherwise I would never have bothered with the series. So I had no desire to read the Divergent series or watch the movie, but it was on HBO the other night and there was nothing on so I gave it a chance. And surprise, surprise, it wasn't so bad. So I decided to read the book, which I just finished today....and I'm a bit confused. When I was watching the movie I kind of forgot that Tris is supposed to be 16, because Four looked so old....I had to imagine her in her twenties to understand the attraction. Then I read the books and it turns out Four is supposed to be 18!!! And the actor playing him is in his 30's or close to it?! What the.....of all the young male talent out there they couldn't find someone closer to book age?

 

I'm a bit on the fence here, regarding the other books and movies. I bought the package on my nook but now reading some of the spoilers here, I don't know if I should waste my time. I also have the very unpopular opinion that a movie based on a book is not an opportunity to change the flaws in the book. If the book meritted a movie then the movie should follow the book.....ridiculous plot, ending, pairing, etc...be damned. 

[Chicken Wing]

If the book meritted a movie then the movie should follow the book.....ridiculous plot, ending, pairing, etc...be damned.

 

Ah, but that's where you are confused. Most often, a book does not get made into a movie because the material merits it. It gets made into a movie because it's popular and therefore has a built-in audience to buy tickets. But just because a book is popular does not necessarily mean the storyline as a whole is entirely good. Sometimes they have to change things to make it translate better as a movie. Sometimes the fans like it and appreciate the attempt to fix what may not have worked the first time, because loving the book doesn't mean they didn't have any complaints or criticisms about it.

 

I liked the first book in this series very much, but it had a LOT of problems and I think the movie's biggest weakness is that it actually did try to follow the narrative in the book. Frankly, to work better as a movie, I think the plot needed to be completely restructured. It would be great if they could make the movie follow the book to a T with minimal changes, but the book just wasn't written that way. Don't blame Hollywood for that. Blame Veronica Roth's editors for not fixing these structural problems when the book was being written in the first place.

 

 

When I was watching the movie I kind of forgot that Tris is supposed to be 16, because Four looked so old....I had to imagine her in her twenties to understand the attraction. Then I read the books and it turns out Four is supposed to be 18!!! And the actor playing him is in his 30's or close to it?! What the.....of all the young male talent out there they couldn't find someone closer to book age?

 

*shrug* The casting people thought Theo James was perfect for the role, so, since he obviously doesn't look anywhere close to 18, they decided to make Four's age in the movie 24-25, while Tris would be a little older as well. This is what was reported by the filmmakers, but neither of the characters' ages are actually mentioned in the movie. The funny thing is that when Theo is completely clean-shaven, he looks a good five years younger. I have to wonder why they didn't just have him look that way to try to lessen the visible age difference between him and Shailene. As it is, it sometimes looks like she's being molested by a creepy uncle.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Chicken Wing

[methodwriter85]

For this work, they NEED to open up the perspective from beyond Tris. They did that with the Hunger Games, and it worked wonders.

[wanderingstar]

This movie is on cable a lot now, and even though I've seen it before, I now realize that Theo James really bugs me in this movie. I can't really say why. When I read the book, I was pretty indifferent to Four, but in the movie, he grates.

[Chicken Wing]

It's because the script was trying too hard. Every one of his lines sounds hand-selected for maximum "brooding love interest guy" effect.

[methodwriter85]

It's because the script was trying too hard. Every one of his lines sounds hand-selected for maximum "brooding love interest guy" effect.

 

Theo said lines? I just saw those pouty lips. :-)

 

In all seriousness though, I'm not sure how I would have felt watching the movie if I didn't want to bang the ever-loving hell out of Theo James. If he doesn't do it for you, I can really see the movie being hard to take. The characters in general were just so poorly drawn.

Edited January 10, 2015 by methodwriter85

[Chicken Wing]

Theo said lines? I just saw those pouty lips. :-)

 

I only noticed his lines during later viewings of the movie. (Yeah, I actually let myself watch this thing more than once.) The first time, I didn't hear a word he said. I too was hypnotized by that mouth. Mmmmmmm.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Chicken Wing