S01.E03: Tomorrow Is Tomorrow

[DanaK]

Quote

3/5/2024 10 p.m. ET/PT

After Blackthorne survives a brazen assassination attempt, Toranaga realizes he must ferry his allies out of Osaka or risk certain defeat.

 

[Raja]

No body no death rule for Lady Mariko, their son does remain a hostage in Osaka. Although he had already pushed back the doctor's prescription of a woman, or a boy, I wonder what Anjin would consider a proper mourning period before he moves in?

Besides giving Anjin his name Hatamoto I guess he's now a samurai in the Toranaga clan the widow Usami Fuji, might be his  future wife. They did focus the camera on her later in the episode. It does play as Lady Mariko was stuck in that arrangement while there was love in Lady Fuji's

I guess the skirmishes, while larger than the fake bandit ambush, being at night cut the production cost. 

[mledawn]

Not sure how to feel about this episode just because so much plot was twisted and shoved into one hour of television.

I hate how dark the fight portions of the show were. I'm not sure if that was just my settings but I always wonder why shows pay all this money for production value and then just dial down the brightness so we can't see anyway.

 

1 hour ago, Raja said:

Besides giving Anjin his name Hatamoto I guess he's now a samurai in the Toranaga clan the widow Usami Fuji, might be his  future wife. 

Blackthorne is still called Anjin-san, but he was given the status of hatamoto which is like an extra honour of samurai. Just like Father Alvito is Tsukku-san, it's both his trade and his name. They just didn't feel it was right to keep calling him a barbarian after he had saved Toranaga's life and shown skill in the sea battle with the Black Ship - even though Rodrigues gave way at the end to repay Blackthorne for saving his life.

[Raja]

15 minutes ago, mledawn said:

Not sure how to feel about this episode just because so much plot was twisted and shoved into one hour of television.

Blackthorne is still called Anjin-san, but he was given the status of hatamoto which is like an extra honour of samurai. Just like Father Alvito is Tsukku-san, it's both his trade and his name. They just didn't feel it was right to keep calling him a barbarian after he had saved Toranaga's life and shown skill in the sea battle with the Black Ship - even though Rodrigues gave way at the end to repay Blackthorne for saving his life.

I was thinking wasn't it soon for Blackthorne to make his rise, but then we are already a third of the way through the miniseries.

And thinking back beyond the name Anjin's being told to raise a regiment to demonstrate European combat techniques for Toranaga's son and Lord Yabushige  to learn that yes, he has to be the English samurai now. While not a ground fighter Blackthorne's scars shows evidence of sea battles even without translating his logs.

I guess I will pull out The Musketeers for a re-watch now. Although a special operations unit and should be far beyond what Anjin can teach they are just a generation in Europe's future.

So where does Rodrigues stand with his Captain General? I guess this one gets let go out of a shortage of trusted pilots

[Constantinople]

Despite the great visualsf I ound this episode to be quite dull given that it was largely about the escape but there was no suspense or tension. There was no feeling at any moment that the escape would be anything other than successful. That and Blackthorne and Rodrigues's eyerolling cringe dialogue made me feel as if I were watching a live action version of a video game.

[Jack Shaftoe]

This Portuguese captain sure isn't the sharpest tool in the drawer. Why not ask directly for Blackthorne's head? He had Tokugawa Toranaga by the balls.

Blackthorne claiming to be a rude idiot as a distraction isn't very different than his normal behavior and they got stupidly lucky that someone came to countermand that guard right on time.

Mariko with a naginata was cool, though it was very convenient that the weapon just happened to be there when she needed it. And flaming arrows? They are stupidly ineffective, those fools must have watched Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves too many times.

I am enjoying the show for the spectacle and the actor performances but I do think the political intrigue that so many people rave about it nothing special. And having a pilot train an infantry battalion sounds really silly. With the kind of money Toranaga has at his disposal he should be easily able to hire some European with experience in land based warfare.

Edited March 6 by Jack Shaftoe

[Raja]

3 minutes ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

This Portuguese captain sure isn't the sharpest tool in the drawer. Why not ask directly for Blackthorne's head? He had Tokugawa Toranaga by the balls.

Blackthorne claiming to be a rude idiot as a distraction isn't very different than his normal behavior and they got stupidly luck that someone came to countermand that guard right on time.

Mariko with a naginata was cool, though it was very convenient that the weapon just happened to be there when she needed it. And flaming arrows? They are stupidly ineffective, those fools must have watched Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves too many times.

I am enjoying the show for the spectacle and the actor performances but I do think the political intrigue that so many people rave about it nothing special. And having a pilot train an infantry battalion sounds really silly. With the kind of money Toranaga has at his disposal he should be easily able to hire some European with experience in land based warfare.

It seems that all of the Europeans are controlled by the church and perhaps the Christian lords. Until Blackthorne and his dirty dozen ran aground that is.

As they were all nominally allied under the Taiko open moves to take each other off are just resuming.

As for the ambush with the goal of getting the heretic as he really stands out even if in the middle of the convoy a daylight attack with precision archery seemed to be the tactic called for. But you know flames are cinematic 

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm not sure if I got a huge gash on my arm from an assassination attempt that I'd be calling the doctor a warlock. Yet he's smart enough to shut up and figure out what was going on in the courtyard. 

I thought the whole episode was going to be them trying to get out of the castle. 

BAMF Mariko just slaying with her staff. I really enjoyed that battle in the woods!

I did like that Blackthorne does know what he's talking about when he's on the ship, and Toranaga was smart enough to figure it out. I thought the Captain-General was getting a little too big for his britches and was going to be run through. It's not like the priests were going to do anything. 

I figured Toranaga knew Blackthorne would commandeer the other ship and race them out. Trickery! Resigning was a huge power move too. 

I know Nestor Carbonall let Blackthorne slip by, but I'd also argue that being that tight against the rocks could have damaged both ships. 

[magdalene]

I am enjoying myself and to me this revival is more sophisticated than the old mini-series. I know this was a big deal back in the day but quite frankly it was dated when I watched it as a child. And I would probably find it more dated now.  I kind of regret I remember certain plot details. I wish I didn't.

Anyways it's something new to watch. Something not Marvel, or DC. Something that scratches the itch while I am waiting for HOTD to come back, ha.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I'm not sure if I got a huge gash on my arm from an assassination attempt that I'd be calling the doctor a warlock. Yet he's smart enough to shut up and figure out what was going on in the courtyard. 

Well in Blackthorne's eye the warlock  was not following the known science. He is still in the process of accepting the Japanese as being on his level and beyond in certain things. 

[Raja]

On 3/6/2024 at 9:20 AM, Jack Shaftoe said:

I am enjoying the show for the spectacle and the actor performances but I do think the political intrigue that so many people rave about it nothing special. And having a pilot train an infantry battalion sounds really silly.

On repeat watches I am picking up that Lady Mariko is not a translator but rather someone who knows the language and in the subtitles gives us her editorializing what goes to Lord Toranaga. Particularly in this case when the Anjin started to describe being a naval officer and not a soldier. I do wonder if samurai on Lord Toranaga's  armed  ships are what we would call Marines and thus raising a regiment of soldiers to teach his other trusted officers might not be that far a stretch or an expected sub skill set in Lord Toranaga's eyes.

[malthus]

Going public after YEARS of lurking to say how much I am enjoying this. I am a huge fan of the book and I think that for the most part they have been as faithful to the source as possible with a few exceptions: the escape from Osaka seemed a lot less unhinged and maniacal on Blackthorne's part than the book version, so much so that it was halfway done when I realized that oh, shit, THIS is the escape? But...okay, I can live with it. The production design is amazing, and it really brings feudal Japan to life in a way I have not seen portrayed before.

The casting is very well-done across the board, especially the major players (Blackthorne, Toranaga, Ishido, Hiromatsu etc), and props to whoever it was that named Nestor Carbonell as Rodrigues, I did not recognize him at all; he is doing a great job. I enjoy the actor playing Alvito, as well, and I think the actor playing Yabushige is crushing it, too; you can really see his wheels turning all the time as he tries to maneuver. BUT...a standing ovation to Anna Sawai, who is absolutely owning the character of Mariko: such a complex character with so many loyalties and contradictions, and she is nailing it. I really did not enjoy her character in Monarch: Legacy of Monsters (those three characters, the "kids", were all so damn annoying and not in a good way, and I could not stand it when they were onscreen), and I really questioned her casting for this when I saw it. Huge turnaround for me regarding her, I think she is amazing here - I hope she will be the breakout star here, she is earning it.

[DoctorAtomic]

10 hours ago, malthus said:

and props to whoever it was that named Nestor Carbonell as Rodrigues, I did not recognize him at all; he is doing a great job.

And I will take those props. 

[tennisgurl]

I was really amused by the scene where the doctor told Blackthorne that he needed to get laid if he wanted to get better, and his eyes about bugged out of his head when Mariko translated it for him, and they only got bigger when she asked if he wanted a man instead. Cultural differences!

I think its kind of weird that they don't have the Portuguese speaking Portuguese amongst themselves, they have the Japanese always speaking Japanese so they clearly aren't afraid we wont read subtitles. The captain is a short sighted idiot, he keeps grabbing for what's in front of him instead of thinking about what he could be getting long term. 

Mariko pulling out that naginta was pretty awesome, even if it was hard to appreciate when it was all shot in the dark, as shows love to do now for some reason. A good fight scene overall though.

I continue to really like the performances, everyone is doing a whole lot, even the minor characters.  

Edited March 14 by tennisgurl

[DoctorAtomic]

Practically, the show established Portuguese = English, and maybe there's a cost factor in bringing in fluent Japanese AND Portuguese speakers. 

[Raja]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Practically, the show established Portuguese = English, and maybe there's a cost factor in bringing in fluent Japanese AND Portuguese speakers. 

On another board I was making the point that perhaps only Brazil had a large enough market to take that risk only to be told that wasn't good enough since the dialects from America and Europe are different enough that Brazilian actors wouldn't be acceptable rit

[ofmd]

I love the Toranaga actor, he's very good and charismatic.

I wish I could say the same about Blackthorne. I dont gel with the actor. This, and the writing, makes me not like him very much. Not to mention the fact that he loves the freedom of the seas while his wife is left at home. (Not unrealistic, I know. Still.) And I find it hard to believe Mariko is already breathing heavily for him, bravery or not. He must still have a very obnoxious body odor, too... I doubt he's already taken to daily hygiene.

Speaking of Mariko, I wonder if she is secretly a female samurai... I forget what they were called. And what exactly happened 14 years ago.

This episode was weaker than the first two. And yes, the dialog of the dudebros at their respective rudders was cringey...

ETA: Regarding Mariko's fighting skills, I seem to remember from documentaries that noble ladies did learn to defend themselves, including weapon skills, so it might just be that. Still leaning towards samurai though.

 

Edited March 18 by ofmd

[Raja]

24 minutes ago, ofmd said:

Speaking of Mariko, I wonder if she is secretly a female samurai... I forget what they were called. And what exactly happened 14 years ago.

I can't remember the first series nor have I read the novel. General consensus says the Lady Mariko was the name Clavell choose for Hosokawa Gracia. If true then her father would be Akechi Mitsuhide. So 14 years would be her conversion to Christianity.

Spoiler

And 18 years before this story he turned on and assassinated Oda Nobunga who had almost managed to unify  the Japanese clans to become Shogun. 

 

 

Edited March 18 by Raja

[ofmd]

I wonder what Toranaga's reasoning is wrt to the traiterous/ manoevering vassal. Is it really a wise idea to have this ambitious dude learn new military tactics? And have his son and heir, who is still inexperienced and hot-headed, iow vulnerable, with him? There must be a long-term strategy that I don't get.

[mledawn]

14 hours ago, ofmd said:

Speaking of Mariko, I wonder if she is secretly a female samurai... I forget what they were called. And what exactly happened 14 years ago.

Mariko and Fuji are both samurai. Kiku the courtesan, and the villagers - they're not. It's my understanding that samurai is like a societal rank - women can be samurai.

[PurpleTentacle]

It's really bad history to have our protagonist be afraid of baths. The europeans had a pretty big bathing culture at the time.

I also question him being this offended by the suggestion of "casual buggery". He is a sailor and has been for some time. There is no way he hasn't seen and done his share of "casual buggery".

Otherwise this show is great, I just had to get these two things off my chest.