S02.E05: Bûche De Noël

[Pallas]

While preparing for an interview with Life magazine, Julia is thrown by a surprise visit from Paul's domineering twin brother, Charles.

[Night Cheese]

I don't dislike DHP in this, but boy, two of him was a lot. I feel like they played up the kooky twin thing too much. But I also didn't know Paul had a twin, so perhaps if I did, I wouldn't have found it so jarring.

Avis and her beau dancing in the kitchen was nice to see. I'm not sure how much of these characters' private lives are based on fact, but her being happy is great. 

And speaking of happy, is Julia ever happy? I get that she has a lot weighing on her from the conversation with the Fed last episode, but man, she really has a habit of taking her internal conflicts out on other people.

Does she even like anyone when they're not working for her and acting how she wants them to act? Her fights with Simca seemed realistic because they're both strong-willed women and despite their long friendship and shared interest in all things French cuisine, they seem to mesh like oil and water most of the time. But picking little fights with everyone in her orbit seems like Julia's MO and it doesn't make her very likeable. She also comes off as hypocritical and somewhat self-righteous. She insists on breaking into a man's world (going back to both her culinary school days and the war before that) through her brand of trailblazing feminism, but doesn't seem to like when other women do it. Similarly with Avis, Julia loves to show off how in love she and Paul are, but seems to not want anyone else to be happy and in love. I don't dislike this portrayal of JC because the biographies and memoirs of hers that I've read always paint her in the brightest of lights, so this is different and refreshing, but man is it hard to root for her in this show.

[LisaM]

I liked how Judith handled the writer from Life Magazine. 

[peeayebee]

On 12/1/2023 at 9:55 AM, Night Cheese said:

I don't dislike DHP in this, but boy, two of him was a lot. I feel like they played up the kooky twin thing too much. But I also didn't know Paul had a twin, so perhaps if I did, I wouldn't have found it so jarring.

I didn't know he had a twin either, so when we first see him out on the porch, I thought Paul was on drugs or something. Anyway, it's an interesting relationship. Charles is a jerk, and Paul is lovely. Seems like Charles came around a bit at the end.

I sure like Julia and Paul's relationship.

Quote

 

And speaking of happy, is Julia ever happy? I get that she has a lot weighing on her from the conversation with the Fed last episode, but man, she really has a habit of taking her internal conflicts out on other people.

Does she even like anyone when they're not working for her and acting how she wants them to act? Her fights with Simca seemed realistic because they're both strong-willed women and despite their long friendship and shared interest in all things French cuisine, they seem to mesh like oil and water most of the time. But picking little fights with everyone in her orbit seems like Julia's MO and it doesn't make her very likeable. She also comes off as hypocritical and somewhat self-righteous. She insists on breaking into a man's world (going back to both her culinary school days and the war before that) through her brand of trailblazing feminism, but doesn't seem to like when other women do it. Similarly with Avis, Julia loves to show off how in love she and Paul are, but seems to not want anyone else to be happy and in love. I don't dislike this portrayal of JC because the biographies and memoirs of hers that I've read always paint her in the brightest of lights, so this is different and refreshing, but man is it hard to root for her in this show.

 

None of this is anything I'm getting from the show. Julia looks like a happy person to me. Yes, she's worried about the FBI guy and the rumors about Paul coming out, but that's understandable and doesn't make her a miserable person.

I didn't see her picking fights. For instance, with Avis, Julia had asked her to be with her for the Life interview. Avis said she had plans with Stanley. First off, if my best friend needed me, I would drop the plans with my new beau in order to support her. But Avis has to have her new guy with her. Fine. And then she acts like an immature teenager, fooling around in the bedroom upstairs and giggling in front of everybody instead of being there for her friend as she said she would be. I was completely on Julia's side. Avis was ridiculous. I like her and Stanley. They're sweet and cute. But geez, can't she put that on hold for one day in order to be there for Julia?

As for Julia not being supportive of other women who want to trail-blaze, well, I don't see that either. I can't remember exactly what she said to Alice, but she wasn't being unsupportive. She was stating facts, that it's a man's world, and you need to learn to operate in their world. I admit I was a little disappointed that she was rather harsh, but it was like a "Wake up, Alice!" moment.

I didn't miss Blanche in this ep. And I found myself really liking Judith. The actress is very good. I don't know if the guy, Noel, was a real guy, but I did wonder if he got back into writing after Judith's final words to him.

[iMonrey]

I wondered why Alice and Elaine couldn't simply try to retool their show to make it more acceptable to their audience. I realize it was horribly racist to object to their chosen host but they could have replaced her and then done a new pilot with a less controversial topic. Yes it's watering down their concept but it gives the station a women's program they were asking for and it would be better than nothing. I'm surprised Hunter didn't suggest it. They've been coming up empty with other ideas, the sewing show didn't work out for example. 

I didn't know Paul had a twin either, they maybe should have mentioned it at some point prior to this. This episode felt a little too "Patty Duke Show" with the double effects.

12 hours ago, peeayebee said:

I didn't miss Blanche in this ep. And I found myself really liking Judith.

The show works best when it centers around Julia, not with all these side characters off in their own stories.

[txhorns79]

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I wondered why Alice and Elaine couldn't simply try to retool their show to make it more acceptable to their audience. I realize it was horribly racist to object to their chosen host but they could have replaced her and then done a new pilot with a less controversial topic.

I wondered how Alice and Elaine got to the pilot stage with their chosen host if that was something the network couldn't tolerate.  But yes, it seems like they could have still done the talk show, while toning down some of the content. It was a little surprising it was treated as all or nothing. 

 

21 hours ago, peeayebee said:

For instance, with Avis, Julia had asked her to be with her for the Life interview. Avis said she had plans with Stanley. First off, if my best friend needed me, I would drop the plans with my new beau in order to support her. But Avis has to have her new guy with her. Fine. And then she acts like an immature teenager, fooling around in the bedroom upstairs and giggling in front of everybody instead of being there for her friend as she said she would be. I was completely on Julia's side. Avis was ridiculous. I like her and Stanley. They're sweet and cute. But geez, can't she put that on hold for one day in order to be there for Julia?

I was kind of on Avis' side.  It was a last minute request.  She was also right that Julia already had Paul and Judith there for her (with Judith's sole job being to look out for Julia), so it was a little much that she needed Avis as well.  I'm not saying that Avis couldn't have acted more maturely with Stanley, but it did feel like Julia could have been more appreciative. 

[Yeah No]

I've already had to come to terms with a somewhat fictionalized Julia but this show also inhabits an alternate universe where product placement is OK on PBS.  It has never been permitted in the way it was presented in this episode and is against all PBS rules.  I went online and confirmed this in actual PBS literature. 

What is interesting, though is that despite this, Julia was instrumental in influencing the home cook to use certain cookware and utensils.  She is credited for popularizing the Cuisinart food processor and I remember way back when she was pretty much the only person using the newly invented non-stick cookware made with Teflon.  In those days there weren't a zillion brands and varieties of cookware for sale in stores like we have now, so it was easy to find what she used on the show.  And my mother ran out and pretty much bought everything Julia used on the show, including the copper cookware, like the souffle pans with those little handles, which were actually impossible to get back then because they were French, but since we lived in NYC my mother was able to find them in a little gem of a store called "Le Bazar Francais".  I am sure my mom wasn't the only person doing this!  They didn't even need to have her do product placement!

Speaking of those Teflon pans, when my mother passed away I found them way in the back of a kitchen cabinet.  They were old and decrepit but she couldn't bear to throw them away.  I did, but it was hard to do.  I also found her copper souffle pans and double boiler.  I kept them as mementos, although they really need a polishing!  I also still have the same kitchen towels Julia often used in the early '70s when the show was broadcast in color. 

[peeayebee]

11 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I was kind of on Avis' side.  It was a last minute request.  She was also right that Julia already had Paul and Judith there for her (with Judith's sole job being to look out for Julia), so it was a little much that she needed Avis as well.  I'm not saying that Avis couldn't have acted more maturely with Stanley, but it did feel like Julia could have been more appreciative. 

I certainly understand Avis being excited about her new boyfriend and having made plans before Julia asked her to be there, but Avis agreed to come. In her mind, why did she come? To support Julia. What did she do? She hung out with Stanley. That's not being supportive. 

[iMonrey]

2 hours ago, peeayebee said:

I certainly understand Avis being excited about her new boyfriend and having made plans before Julia asked her to be there, but Avis agreed to come. In her mind, why did she come? To support Julia. What did she do? She hung out with Stanley. That's not being supportive. 

Yeah, and fooling around with him upstairs in one of the bedrooms was just tacky. I have a hard time buying this version of Avis, acting like a giddy teenager in love. It was just kind of silly and not believable.

[txhorns79]

11 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I've already had to come to terms with a somewhat fictionalized Julia but this show also inhabits an alternate universe where product placement is OK on PBS.  It has never been permitted in the way it was presented in this episode and is against all PBS rules.  I went online and confirmed this in actual PBS literature. 

It's 1964.  PBS does not yet exist.  I think we are still in NET times. 

2 hours ago, peeayebee said:

I certainly understand Avis being excited about her new boyfriend and having made plans before Julia asked her to be there, but Avis agreed to come. In her mind, why did she come? To support Julia. What did she do? She hung out with Stanley. That's not being supportive. 

I mean, Julia told her to bring him.  I think for me, it was just not apparent why Avis was so desperately needed.  Judith was doing all the hand holding and looking out for Julia.

[EtheltoTillie]

Even if NET and not PBS, I knew there was something off about the product placements. When they first started selling the opening credit sponsorships on PBS, that was shocking. Like this episode of masterpiece theater is brought to you by . . . 

[Yeah No]

20 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

It's 1964.  PBS does not yet exist.  I think we are still in NET times. 

Whatever it was known as back then as non-commercial TV it was still just not done.  I remember because I watched it then.

12 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Even if NET and not PBS, I knew there was something off about the product placements. When they first started selling the opening credit sponsorships on PBS, that was shocking. Like this episode of masterpiece theater is brought to you by . . . 

I thought so too about the sponsorship.  I guess that was their way of getting around their own rules.  Even so the stance on no product placement continued.

[EtheltoTillie]

Stop the presses:  I've been catching some old Julia Child segments on YouTube, and here's one with a sponsorship at the beginning.  This is a really old show in black and white from the 60s. 

 

 

[SG429]

On 12/3/2023 at 9:41 PM, txhorns79 said:

I was kind of on Avis' side.  It was a last minute request.  She was also right that Julia already had Paul and Judith there for her (with Judith's sole job being to look out for Julia), so it was a little much that she needed Avis as well.  I'm not saying that Avis couldn't have acted more maturely with Stanley, but it did feel like Julia could have been more appreciative. 

But, at the time, a profile in Life magazine was huge, an amazing and exciting opportunity for one's good friend. Who wouldn't want to be there to support and share in that? It's not like Stanley was home on a 48-hour pass from the front lines or he had great Red Sox tickets. I didn't get her resistance in the first place.

[txhorns79]

1 minute ago, SG429 said:

I didn't get her resistance in the first place.

Julia asked Avis at the last minute, and Avis already had plans she did not want to cancel.  Avis has her own life, and wasn't prepared to drop everything to be at Julia's beck and call.  Perhaps if there was some kind of support only Avis could give Julia, that would be something, but it seemed like Avis really did not need to be there.   

[Yeah No]

5 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Julia asked Avis at the last minute, and Avis already had plans she did not want to cancel.  Avis has her own life, and wasn't prepared to drop everything to be at Julia's beck and call.  Perhaps if there was some kind of support only Avis could give Julia, that would be something, but it seemed like Avis really did not need to be there.   

Avis is Julia's best friend and I know my best friend is able to give me a kind of support neither my husband nor any secondary friends or work associates could ever provide.  My best friend was my maid of honor at my wedding.  No one else could have filled that role as well as she could.  I can see how Julia needed her best friend at this event basically to hold her hand because it was that stressful and that important to her.   I don't get the feeling Julia expects Avis to be at her "beck and call".  I think this was a very big deal for Julia which is why she needed her best friend's moral support.

As far as I know, best friends often cancel plans if their bestie needs them that much.  It wasn't like Avis's date couldn't be rescheduled for the next day.  I'm sure her boyfriend would have been OK with that.  Avis just couldn't control her hormones.  She didn't want to admit to being that selfish that she would turn her friend down for something like that so she agreed to be there, then didn't live up to the promise.  That isn't being a good best friend.  She shouldn't have agreed to come if it meant she would just ignore Julia and canoodle upstairs with her boyfriend.  It's the height of tacky and not the nicest thing to do to a friend, especially in THEIR home.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Yeah No

[txhorns79]

53 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

As far as I know, best friends often cancel plans if their bestie needs them that much. 

Maybe if they have no other responsibilities or commitments, they can drop everything and rush to be with that person? 

Perhaps if this interview wasn't occurring well after Julia already had a best selling cookbook and hit television show, and we didn't see that Avis wasn't particularly needed for this interview, I might sympathize more with Julia's position.  As it was, I don't. 

[Yeah No]

11 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Maybe if they have no other responsibilities or commitments, they can drop everything and rush to be with that person? 

Perhaps if this interview wasn't occurring well after Julia already had a best selling cookbook and hit television show, and we didn't see that Avis wasn't particularly needed for this interview, I might sympathize more with Julia's position.  As it was, I don't. 

No, I would drop everything even if I had responsibilities and commitments and my bestie would do the same for me, but of course it depends on how important and hard to reschedule they are.  And a date with a boyfriend Avis obviously sees on more days than she doesn't is not something so hard to live without for one day unless she was just too into her own hormones for it to be that easy for her to do.  Not a good enough reason in my opinion.  I think she was just being selfish and acting like a teenager.  I don't begrudge her having found some fun and I do get that it's been a long time since she's had that in her life, but it wasn't an appointment to see the queen or anything and living without it for one day isn't a lot to ask of her in the scheme of the importance of what was going on in Julia's life.  Just my opinion of course.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Yeah No

[Hanahope]

loved the old JC episode.  have to laugh at how she's talking about the color of the mayonnaise when she added the veggies to it, and of course, we can't see the color.

Clearly the Fibbie is threating to go public with information about Paul, but its not like he has a job to lose anymore.   its awful that they threatened people with releasing fall information in order to get someone to lie about their friends.  

it was good that charlie got the questions ahead of time so Julie and Paul could prepare answers as to why they now live in Boston and Paul left his job.