S01.E02: Who's There?

[nodorothyparker]

Airdate 06.25.23. Now streaming on AMC+. Proceed at your own risk for spoilers before airdate.

Quote

Maggie and Negan encounter native New Yorkers. Armstrong revisits a trauma as Ginny attempts to adapt to change.

 

[OoohMaggie]

Well, two down and four to go, if I come to terms with the fact that this is merely a Hershel rescue show with yet another crackpot villain with which to deal, I may relax enough to possibly enjoy it. At the moment all I feel is general disappointment about something I had high hopes for, yes I know I shouldn't be surprised after all these years, but the glimmer of hope is what keeps us going 🥺

It was nice to see the resurgence of the old Negan we all loved to hate, knock knock! 

[Daltrey]

9 hours ago, OoohMaggie said:

Well, two down and four to go, if I come to terms with the fact that this is merely a Hershel rescue show with yet another crackpot villain with which to deal, I may relax enough to possibly enjoy it. At the moment all I feel is general disappointment about something I had high hopes for, yes I know I shouldn't be surprised after all these years, but the glimmer of hope is what keeps us going 🥺

It was nice to see the resurgence of the old Negan we all loved to hate, knock knock! 

Damn, is there really only 6 episodes? That's really disappointing if it's just a Herschel rescue mission... Then again, the mother ship first season was only six and that was pretty fantastic. If they can manage even 80% of what Darabont pulled off I'll be happy.

Things I hated: starting the episode by dropping us in the middle of a new narrative without showing us or giving any exposition on how they met the old Jewish lady or how she managed to steal Maggie's bag. I guess it didn't matter since she died without even any explanation of why she was so dear to our new rag tag group of friends.🙄; No apparent subtitles for non English languages. Turning subs on only revealed Hebrew and Croatian. The Hebrew I can kind of let slide because context and body language gave the gist of what she was saying for the most part but two episodes running now, Ivanek has said something in Croatian with zero indication of what he means. Now, chances are, they are just throw away lines meant for humor or something but even so, how about letting everyone in on the joke?!; Mopey, moody teenage Herschel flashback. Makes me think we're going to see him do something stupid that will make me cheer for the croat and whatever he ends up doing to Henry 2.0 I mean Herschel. 😆

Things I liked: Negan 1.0 rearing his smugly old head🤣 Best thing I've seen on ANY walking dead series in at least 3 seasons!; Maggie finally being honest about why they were there instead of trying to be clever with more lies.; Negan and...🤔uh...Negan!😜

[OoohMaggie]

Negan's sorrowful account to Maggie about how awful The Croat's behaviour was to the Kingdom's female spy was rather galling, this coming from the man that ironed many a face and threw the Doc into the boiler furnace 🤬

I think Negan was actually being genuine when telling the story, his redemption certainly has come a long way 🤔

I was hoping to see Walkers 3.0, who knows what skills they've picked up from the wall climbing 2.0's, I want to see them using the zip wires! 

Edited June 24, 2023 by OoohMaggie

[Mr. Sparkle]

It's nice that the cast of Rent will be helping Maggie on her quest. 

Are they trying to make the Marshall a sympathetic character after we saw what a sadist he is? 

That one girl was really pushing her NYC accent. 

Whiny Hershel is worse than whiny Carl. 

Quiet girl at Hilltop - don't care. Run away and don't come back. 

Asshole Negan was actually a welcome return. 

That's all I got. 

[OoohMaggie]

I don't know the physical square mile size of the island, but surely those living there could have Pied Piper'd those tens of thousands of, still mobile 🙄🤔😂 Walkers into the Hudson, Central Park should be a nice place for a stroll and an ice cream, didn't these guys watch the other show? 🍦🍧

Edited June 25, 2023 by OoohMaggie

[Mr. Sparkle]

It's a long, skinny island, but the street grid & buildings mean they could've easily built a wall system and at least made some sections of the island safe. 

[gutbuster]

I liked seeing the walkers enjoy some fun leisure time, pawing at the marshal while he was hanging up there like a piñata.

Who was the guy the marshal found in the apartment? Was that his family or his partner's and why do I even care? 

Being a brand new character, I do not care about Ginny or why she would leave a reasonably safe place to go walkabout after Negan. 

Seeing as this show centers around the Hershel rescue mission, I would've (stupidly, I know) thought there'd be a more direct approach  than what we've seen so far. Why is Hershel being whiny and annoying when he wasn't before? Why do all the kids need to be so annoying on this show? He was the only one who really hadn't been. Is it just moody teenager stuff or did something happen? Is his relationship with Maggie strained? Why isn't he going to weapons practice? Is he suicidal? It kind of sounded like that, or at least that he's apathetic about staying alive. Maybe we'll find out more. 

With only 6 episodes its nice to see the folks making this show are still sticking to the tried and true method of taking their sweet damn time getting to the point.

I do love the NYC visuals and seeing the decay and how people might be still surviving there.

[Iguessnot]

Anyone else see that walker climbing right behind Maggie when she and Negan were climbing the ladder? However there was no acknowledgement or consequence of its presence so I figure that's a blooper.

 

ETA: It was actually the older lady in the lead, then Negan, then Maggie.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Iguessnot

[heisenberg]

Glad to see a part of the old Negan back. 

Maggie is the problem for me. 

Since she came back she never had a smile or empathy for anyone.  She got lots of people killed for what? A bed of pick-up truck full of... Cabbage?  Michonne was also like that.   No wonder Hershel 2.0 can't stand her.

Yeah, i'm in Negan camp now.  Let there be rock.✊

Sorry OoohMaggie we can discuss this.🫶🙂


 

[Iguessnot]

6 minutes ago, gutbuster said:

I liked seeing the walkers enjoy some fun leisure time, pawing at the marshal while he was hanging up there like a piñata.

Who was the guy the marshal found in the apartment? Was that his family or his partner's and why do I even care?

From the photos, I thought it was his dad. 

[Starchild]

On 6/24/2023 at 6:08 AM, Daltrey said:

That's really disappointing if it's just a Herschel rescue mission...

Not if Hershel dies at the end of it. That would make it worthwhile, especially after tonight's scene of teen angst. Seriously, why does the TWD universe think we need kids on every show? I can't think of one that's worth having around. Even Carl was a PITA until he grew up a little, and even then he was still kind of annoying.

 

On 6/24/2023 at 6:40 PM, OoohMaggie said:

Negan's sorrowful account to Maggie about how awful The Croat's behaviour was to the Kingdom's female spy was rather galling, this coming from the man that ironed many a face and threw the Doc into the boiler furnace 🤬

I'm guessing he was alluding to rape, no? We've seen how distasteful Negan finds it. I know there's those who argue that his forced harem amounts to the same thing, but clearly he thinks there's a difference. Maybe the absence of overt violence? Who knows how he justifies it, but justify it he does.

[heisenberg]

7 minutes ago, Iguessnot said:

Anyone else see that walker climbing right behind Maggie when she and Negan were climbing the ladder? However there was no acknowledgement or consequence of its presence so I figure that's a blooper.

I went back to see and it was bad editing.   Negan follows Maggie who follows Negan.

[heisenberg]

11 minutes ago, Starchild said:

I'm guessing he was alluding to rape, no? We've seen how distasteful Negan finds it. I know there's those who argue that his forced harem amounts to the same thing, but clearly he thinks there's a difference. Maybe the absence of overt violence? Who knows how he justifies it, but justify it he does.

I was at the point that I did not care about moral anymore when he went out of jail. 

Since it is going to be a short serie I wish him to perform a blood bath... While saving Hershell of course.🙄

The rest of the story, well I don't trust the writers so...  Less speaking, more blood?

But that's me, it is the only way I will be able to keep up.
More Negan being bad ass it is.

Edited June 26, 2023 by heisenberg

[theredhead77]

Well, Holeeeeyy shit. Seeing Saviors Negan was terrifying. During the last episode, he quipped to Maggie that he had paid his dues for his actions. IRL? Not in the least. In the zombie apocalypse world? I think he did. I didn't think his behavior on TWD was a "redemption arc", I think it was an accurate (for the show) reflection of a person growing.

He was a selfish dick before joining the Saviors; he became a monster [because he had to be] and did the work to grow. Those seeds of the monster were always there, something in the eyes.

While I'm not looking forward to episodes of Croat torture porn, I am disappointed that this is such a short series, as I am really enjoying it so far.

[nodorothyparker]

I realized watching this one what a novelty it feels like for the show to act like the ZA actually happened and the walkers to just be everywhere all the time. I get that by the rest of the WD universe sticking to more rural areas where everything is more spread out it's not so far fetched to go whole stretches without seeing them, but the end result has long been feeling like their presence or absence is entirely dependent on whether the plot needs them to be there or not. Here, where we're told the walkers were trapped on the island early on, they're just everywhere and there's really no point where they're not being drawn by sound or movement. 

Negan's backstory on the Croat was underwhelming as hell and left me wondering "that's it? Really?" You, the guy who kept an unwilling harem and beat people to death as spectacle and threw perfectly good doctors into fires, you thought he "went too far." Oh, but she was "just a kid?" Yes, we remember when the mother show decided you were all about protecting the kids and you would never, as if we hadn't seen you interrupted from taking batting practice at Carl's head by an 11th-hour save from a CGI tiger. And yet, Negan "putting on a show" really worked better than just about anything else in this episode. I've always thought that's how the mother show wanted us to see Negan, as someone who loved his larger than life theatrics until somewhere in there he forgot it was supposed to just be theatrics when he needed to make an object lesson and became his whole persona. It actually makes sense that he'd be slipping back into original recipe Negan now as he's setting up to go up against his old running buddy from his Savior days. Maggie really hasn't been given a whole lot to do so far beyond being surly, but it was interesting to see her seeing this and realizing on some level that the same monster that killed Glenn was now giving her cover.

It's not perfect but it's easily better than anything else the franchise has put out for a good while.

[maystone]

When the Boruzi showed up, my first thought was "OMG Daft Punk stans!" I actually thought the whole '90s Euro rock look was very cool, but then I also wondered who they're trying to impress. Not that many people left. But holy crap those boys would have made an outstanding street gang in The Warriors movie.

So Ginny is from Oceanside? I thought it was destroyed (off-screen) by Lance in the last season of TWD. Or that's what Luke reported, anyway. I don;t want to have to tease out her backstory. Just tell us upfront what problem from her past she's dealing with and let the show roll on.

I can kind of see how Hershel would not want to obey Maggie about learning weapon skills. She seems dour and driven and has seemed that way to me since Negan killed Glenn. I mean unrelentingly dour and driven. Plus she's always leaving him. I remember feeling sorry for him in the ep Warlord: Maggie was taking off without even telling him she was leaving. He saw her packing the truck and came running up to ask her what was going on and how long she'd be gone this time.  Yeah, I'd say that it might be hard to live with that and there's probably some issues about being the son of the legend that is Glenn.

I still plan to stick with the show. It's only six episodes, eh. I just hope the writing sharpens up.

[Iguessnot]

2 hours ago, heisenberg said:

I went back to see and it was bad editing.   Negan follows Maggie who follows Negan.

I watched it again. Actually it's the Jewish lady in the lead, then Negan, then Maggie. On first watch, because Maggie was hesistating, it seemed she should have been farther behind Negan.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Iguessnot

[Daltrey]

23 hours ago, Superclam said:

Asshole Negan was actually a welcome return. 

 

8 hours ago, heisenberg said:

Yeah, i'm in Negan camp now.  Let there be rock.✊

My people!🤣

[nodorothyparker]

9 hours ago, maystone said:

So Ginny is from Oceanside? I thought it was destroyed (off-screen) by Lance in the last season of TWD. Or that's what Luke reported, anyway. I don;t want to have to tease out her backstory. Just tell us upfront what problem from her past she's dealing with and let the show roll on.

Not sure what I base this on, but my impression was that was the story they decided to tell people. That Negan is clearly on the run with this girl in the premier would suggest that he's become person non grata again and they maybe don't want to call attention to exactly how or where Maggie picked this girl up. It's certainly not like she's going to tell anyone otherwise.

Unless there's more going on there than what Negan already told us, we know her backstory. She hasn't spoken since she saw daddy turn and like all children of the ZA immediately latched on to Happy Fun Times Uncle Negan because, you know, he's all about the kids.

[Mr. Sparkle]

1 minute ago, nodorothyparker said:

Not sure what I base this on, but my impression was that the story they decided to tell people. That Negan is clearly on the run with this girl in the premier would suggest that he's become person non grata again and they maybe don't want to call attention to exactly how or where Maggie picked this girl up. It's certainly not like she's going to tell anyone otherwise.

Unless there's more going on there than what Negan already told us, we know her backstory. She hasn't spoken since she saw daddy turn and like all children of the ZA immediately latched on to Happy Fun Times Uncle Negan because, you know, he's all about the kids.

Agree. It feels like there is something going on there. Will the show actually address it? 

[rmontro]

On 6/23/2023 at 8:25 PM, OoohMaggie said:

At the moment all I feel is general disappointment about something I had high hopes for

The main thing I'm disappointed about is that Carol couldn't do the Carol and Daryl show, so we're just getting a Daryl show.

I think this small group of people, including the old lady who ziplined, were likable and interesting, but I've already forgotten their names.  They'll probably be dead soon anyway.

I don't understand what the Croat wants with a little kid like Herschel, but I guess all will be revealed.  I suppose he thinks he's a spy of some kind.

[Starchild]

He remembers Maggie from his time with the Saviors, so my guess is this is personal.

[theredhead77]

20 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

I've always thought that's how the mother show wanted us to see Negan, as someone who loved his larger than life theatrics until somewhere in there he forgot it was supposed to just be theatrics when he needed to make an object lesson and became his whole persona. It actually makes sense that he'd be slipping back into original recipe Negan now as he's setting up to go up against his old running buddy from his Savior days.

I'm on board with this line of thinking. For me, it came to light during the one-off episodes they were doing during the pandemic. He was always a selfish dick; his wife getting sick and later dying sent him spiraling, and the perfect storm formed, creating Savior-Negan. Somewhere along the way, he forgot monster Negan was a persona, realized it was the only way to keep the big-boss status he loved, and became the monster we all saw.

Being jailed by Rick and crew isolated him and gave him plenty of time to snap himself out of it and change. As I said up-thread, I don't think it was a redemption arc.

I'm curious to see where they go from here. Maggie was rightfully horrified at what she saw, though Negan did tell her (and others) to go on. She chose to follow. It would be interesting to see Negan figure out how to handle the monster he will need to be to deal with the Croat, the man he grew into during the past seasons of TWD, and whatever happened between then and now. I also hope we learn what happened to Annie and his child. I truly hope they are alive, even if we never see them.

 

[Starchild]

42 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

It would be interesting to see Negan figure out how to handle the monster he will need to be to deal with the Croat, the man he grew into during the past seasons of TWD, and whatever happened between then and now.

I think he was rightly horrified by that guy killing the old lady for no reason. He wanted revenge on her behalf and he used that feeling to make himself kill the guy the way he did.

But yeah, how he holds on to the progress he's made could be interesting.

[theredhead77]

4 hours ago, Starchild said:

I think he was rightly horrified by that guy killing the old lady for no reason. He wanted revenge on her behalf and he used that feeling to make himself kill the guy the way he did.

Agreed. That flipped a switch in his brain. I think this version of Negan is scarier than OG "bad guy" Negan. We knew he was a bad guy (though as someone who didn't read the comics I had no idea what was to come). Now he's productive member of society Negan. Is it Sunday yet?

[Mr. Sparkle]

Here's a thread for the upcoming Daryl show.

Please keep all related conversation there, and use this thread to talk about this episode. Thanks. 

[OoohMaggie]

On 6/26/2023 at 3:50 AM, heisenberg said:

Sorry OoohMaggie we can discuss this.🫶🙂

sorry, just seen this, yeah no worries, Maggie can be a complete C--T at times, she's certainly no Angel when it comes to anything 🤣😂

[KeithJ]

On 6/26/2023 at 11:52 AM, rmontro said:

I don't understand what the Croat wants with a little kid like Herschel, but I guess all will be revealed.  I suppose he thinks he's a spy of some kind.

Maggie explained this in episode 1?  Didn’t they raid her village or something and take all their foodstuff.  They then said they would be back and took Hershel to make sure Maggie’s group had more for when they returned.

I actually forgot this was on and was surprised when I saw two episodes on my DVR.  I don’t care about Negan’s girl, I don’t care about the marshal, I don’t care about pigeon woman and her group.  Thinking about it, I’m not even sure I care about Maggie.  I’m here for Negan and glad to see the old Negan back.

[rmontro]

14 hours ago, KeithJ said:

Thinking about it, I’m not even sure I care about Maggie.  I’m here for Negan and glad to see the old Negan back.

It's interesting to see people say things like this, since it seems like on the old main board there was a lot of time spent on Negan hating.  

 

14 hours ago, KeithJ said:

I actually forgot this was on and was surprised when I saw two episodes on my DVR.

Lol, I forgot to watch this on Sunday, and forgot that I have an episode on my DVR.  I suppose I had better watch it.  Hey, it's only six episodes, how painful can it be?  Seriously, the episodes I've seen were okay.