Dune: Part Two (2023)

[Jalyn]

On 4/4/2024 at 5:23 PM, Danny Franks said:

A couple of bugbears - are we to believe that the Fremen can steer sandworms, with those tiny little hooks? These things are so big that the one Paul rode was passing him for about two minutes before he jumped on its back. I guess that must be how it works, unless they stand there all day, just waiting for the worm they summon to be going in the right direction. And how do they get off, when they reach their destination?

I don't remember the second answer, but the hooks open their carapace and allow the sand in, this irritates them, so it causes them to turn away from that direction. (I do not recall if they explained this in the movie.)

[Sandman]

On 4/4/2024 at 6:23 PM, Danny Franks said:

And how do they get off, when they reach their destination?

I read the book decades ago, and the only answer I’ve ever been able to come up with is “Verrrry carefully.”

[Affogato]

On 4/4/2024 at 10:32 PM, SeanC said:

 

The Atreides gave up Caladan for Arrakis. The bunker is on Arrakis because the nuclear weapons are of no use to House Atreides anywhere else.

Not what Paul uses as a yhreat in the books. Odd choice. But yes, Gurney had time to set up the weapons, bunkers, and so on. 

[Chyromaniac]

I’m reading the book now, and I think I’ve found my favorite detail that hasn’t made it into this, nor likely any adaptation.  When Paul kills Jamis, he basically inherits- along with his water and certain property- Jamis’ wife and her two sons.  It’s not that I think this is a great practice.  Instead It’s because the older son is actually from a previous relationship of hers, with a man who Jamis killed- and his name was Geoff.  And honestly, I just find the idea of “Geoff the Fremen” really funny.

[BetterButter]

 

[Affogato]

On 4/8/2024 at 12:00 PM, Jalyn said:

I don't remember the second answer, but the hooks open their carapace and allow the sand in, this irritates them, so it causes them to turn away from that direction. (I do not recall if they explained this in the movie.)

That is how they get off. The worm is turned low to one side (using the hooks let irritating sand in and the worm tries to avoid the irritation move) and they jump off in reverse order. Last one on is first off.
 

Being point man is dangerous and scary. Also they really hate sand or they’d burrow and no rider wants to go i to the sand. That is why being lst is dangerouse. The minute the hook is out the worm dives. 

Edited April 28 by Affogato

[Affogato]

I saw this for the second time. Boy, there is no gender dimorphism between Timothee and Zendaya, although Javier Bardem, Josh Brolin and so on are great, hulking men. Also, I wonder if they could have included more mixed races. I do realize that the Harkonnen being all black and the Atreides white would not be a good look, just like having the Baron H be a predatory lover of boys, as he is in the book, would not be a good idea, but I wish they had taken the opportunity to mix up the races more.  As they would be in real life, that many years in the future. The ‘white savior’ myth doesn’t actually require ‘white’. 

In the books Feyd Rautha was not a mad, psychotic person (Beast was well presented) that everyone cheered for because they were scared of him. Maybe Machiavellian, but not full blown psychotic. I know in the books we find out the Baron is wired to enjoy pain, and in the movie Feyd is so wired. It is a good thing Jessica and Paul missed that gene.

I understand why the timeline was compacted, but I think it really hurts the story. A few months of fighting as opposed to years of fighting together, married into the group, lost a child in the war, those things form different bonds.

The mouse is still the cutest thing. . 

[Unclejosh]

I know Josh Brolin has gotten in pretty good shape but I think he is a manlet overall. He is like 5'8" or something (listed at 5'10 but most actors pad an inch or 2 minimum when under 6FT). Not really hulking. Good camerawork and platform shoes make him appear bigger. He is listed as same height as Timothee although he has a wider frame. Out of costume, JB is significantly smaller than TC based on pics of them at the premiere.

Javier is around the same height and while his body type is thicker, it is mostly camera and wardrobe tricks making him see bigger than he is. The premier pics show Austin Butler as the biggest followed by TC, then Javier and JB. Height wise anyway. Batista is by far the biggest overall and Momoa from the first film obviously. Stellan is a tall man as well.

TC is just so scrawny he appears tiny in comparison when he really isn't.

 

 

 

 

[Affogato]

Honestly my point was that, similar to Reeves and Moss in the Matrix, zebdaya and Chalamet look to be of a similar and fluid gender. In the Matrix the look is there for a fairly obvious reason. In this movie, possibly it is as well. Paul is the ine who can see both his male and female lines. 

actors lying about their height seems kind of ‘80s. Anyway, irrelevant. The others are presented as very male and don’t seem short. It is a movie. 

[Unclejosh]

Well Zendaya is pretty tall, see her compared to Tom Holland. Shorter actors lie about being taller and taller ones will shave inches off because they will be disqualified from rolls due to framing issues compared to their costars. If someone is listed over 6'4, they could be even taller in real life. 

Athletes do this all the time as well. Most of the time the heights for basketball players is not accurate. The only time Charles Barkley hit 6'6 for example is when he jumped or was on a step.  For a more recent example Kevin Durant is often listed as 7FT or 6'11 but he is really under 6'10. There have been some reports that up to 40% of athletes lie about their heights and weights, mostly at the direction of agents, coaches, owners for marketing reasons.

People are obsessed with heights for some reason. Everyone lies about it famous or not. Guys lie about being taller and women often lie saying they are shorter than they are in real life. 

My daughter is like 5'11 but she tells people she is 5'9 and slouches a lot. She hates being tall. 

As for Dune, I never thought about gender or fluidity at all when watching the movie as Paul is presented as male and Chani is presented as female but maybe I am not observant enough. Wouldn't be the first time I missed something.  lol.

Cheers!

 

[tv echo]

Dune: Part Two | An Ensemble for the Ages | Warner Bros. Entertainment
Warner Bros. Entertainment    May 10, 2024

[millennium]

On 3/5/2024 at 11:13 PM, Frost said:

Casting Christopher Walken as the Emperor was a mistake.  I swear, he sounded like a bad impersonator!  He has a distinctive cadence, but he needs to be able to tone it down when he's acting.

 

All I could think was that he looked like Dr. Zachary Smith.

I haven't read any of the books, don't think I will -- the character names and languages seem like they'd be too much work.

Chalamet's performance was bloodless and uninspiring. 

Normally in a movie like this, the heroine is beautiful, vulnerable, heroic or has some other quality the audience can latch onto ... Chani's only quality, apparently, was petulance.   I don't get the Zendaya appeal at all.

The Austin Butler character could have been pulled from any number of other movies.   Ooooh, he's being filmed in black and white!  Skeeery!

Rebecca Ferguson's snarling became annoying after awhile.  

Florence Pugh is probably still confused about why she or her character were in this movie.  

The fat baron floating around seemed like an idea salvaged from a Mad Max remainder bin.

After the build-up by Javier Bardem's character --djinn, centipedes, etc. --  I expected Paul to face a grueling trial in the desert, but he just kinda walked off and flashed forward.

2001 A Space Odyssey called: they want the Space fetus back.   That this one talks was absurd.

The Fremen vs. the big lumbering attack vehicles was like the opening of Empire Strikes Back, except the desert wasn't frozen.

The majesty of the sets, setting and cinematography informed my senses that I should be very, very impressed by this film ... but my takeaway feeling about this movie is that I can't understand what all the fuss is about.   It was long, often boring, at times confusing ...

 

 

 

 

[DoctorAtomic]

And resurrecting for Part 2. 

I forgot from Part 1 - Why was the Baron 'big' (lack of a better word), and not all diseased like in the book? There's a canonical reason for it. 

iirc, Stilgar was interacting with the Atreides a lot by the time Jessica and Paul fled into the desert. I remember that being critical to Stilgar realizing Leto wasn't quite the same as the Harkonnens. Gurney helping him in the desert with one of the Fremen was a pivotal scene. I think you could have still done that and still had Tabr being all up in arms. I think they could have leaned more into Mahdi in part one. It seemed kind of out of nowhere, where in the book it was a running thread as soon as Paul got there. 

Although from what I got, it seemed they were trying to deconstruct the messiah myth somewhat a modern audience since by now it's been done so much. I liked giving the Fremen more diversity and character than in the book, so I can buy it. Also, Chani is more front and center, so it makes sense to see the KH through her eyes. 

I did enjoy all the wormwalking.

I'm really glad they showed the Usul scene. The miniseries skipped it and only went with Muad'Dib. I would have liked a 'Tell me of the waters of your homeworld Usul' though. 

Muad'Dib's first sandworm riding scene was fantastic. I'm enjoying the movies, but this was the first time I was really like just 'wow'. 

I don't remember Jessica being this overtly calculating in the books, but again, for a modern audience, I think it's a good take. Generally the movie is gloves off on the BG plans. I don't remember Rabban being this prominent either, but I think the casting was really good, and I like the actor anyway. 

I'm sorry, but Feyd is always Sting for me. The manic glee was the best. Still good casting all around.

I know movies will take some liberties from books and that's fine. Dune is certainly a very dense book, and I was right up front that two movies was a good idea, and I still think so. However, I think some fat could be trimmed, I also don't think they established how essential the spice is and why Arrakis is so crucial to the operation of the galaxy. Cutting out the CHOAM if only for a quick scene was a misstep for me. I don't agree with Alia not killing the Baron. 

All that said, I certainly had a good time watching the movies, and I'll look forward to Messiah. If only to go bonkers for Idaho. 

[Affogato]

On 9/15/2024 at 12:22 AM, DoctorAtomic said:

And resurrecting for Part 2. 

I forgot from Part 1 - Why was the Baron 'big' (lack of a better word), and not all diseased like in the book? There's a canonical reason for it. 

iirc, Stilgar was interacting with the Atreides a lot by the time Jessica and Paul fled into the desert. I remember that being critical to Stilgar realizing Leto wasn't quite the same as the Harkonnens. Gurney helping him in the desert with one of the Fremen was a pivotal scene. I think you could have still done that and still had Tabr being all up in arms. I think they could have leaned more into Mahdi in part one. It seemed kind of out of nowhere, where in the book it was a running thread as soon as Paul got there. 

Although from what I got, it seemed they were trying to deconstruct the messiah myth somewhat a modern audience since by now it's been done so much. I liked giving the Fremen more diversity and character than in the book, so I can buy it. Also, Chani is more front and center, so it makes sense to see the KH through her eyes. 

I did enjoy all the wormwalking.

I'm really glad they showed the Usul scene. The miniseries skipped it and only went with Muad'Dib. I would have liked a 'Tell me of the waters of your homeworld Usul' though. 

Muad'Dib's first sandworm riding scene was fantastic. I'm enjoying the movies, but this was the first time I was really like just 'wow'. 

I don't remember Jessica being this overtly calculating in the books, but again, for a modern audience, I think it's a good take. Generally the movie is gloves off on the BG plans. I don't remember Rabban being this prominent either, but I think the casting was really good, and I like the actor anyway. 

I'm sorry, but Feyd is always Sting for me. The manic glee was the best. Still good casting all around.

I know movies will take some liberties from books and that's fine. Dune is certainly a very dense book, and I was right up front that two movies was a good idea, and I still think so. However, I think some fat could be trimmed, I also don't think they established how essential the spice is and why Arrakis is so crucial to the operation of the galaxy. Cutting out the CHOAM if only for a quick scene was a misstep for me. I don't agree with Alia not killing the Baron. 

All that said, I certainly had a good time watching the movies, and I'll look forward to Messiah. If only to go bonkers for Idaho. 

I think that fat diseased pedophile was considered homophobic so the Baron was toned down. Still has impulse control problems. Which is whyy they needed to crossbreed with the Atreides. 
 

i also liked Sting as Feyd Rautha. I don’t think they could have improved on the creepiness of Alia killing the baron in Lynch’s movie. It would have been stupid to try. But i don’t see how Paul and Alia bonded with the Fremen in that short a time. I don’t think that will improve the next movie. It has far reaching consequences. 

[DoctorAtomic]

They still could have made the Baron really gross though. There's an actual reason for it. 

[SeanC]

6 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

They still could have made the Baron really gross though. There's an actual reason for it. 

Not in the original book. The nonsense about him being infected comes from the writings of Herbert's son.

[Spartan Girl]

I’ll say this for Paul: giving Chani the line that he’d love her until he stopped breathing, then proceeding to declare he’d take Irulan as his wife right in front of her was a new level of dick moves. Yes, it’s a political marriage, but still.

Timothee is usually a hit or miss for me, yet he managed to pull off Paul’s Dark Messiah transformation quite well.

And if the movies continue with Chani being against Paul instead of willingly being his lover again, that’s fine with me.

Edited November 3 by Spartan Girl

[DoctorAtomic]

That could be a interesting take, but she still has to birth the twins. So they'd have to land that. 

 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

6 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

That could be a interesting take, but she still has to birth the twins. So they'd have to land that. 

 

Book spoilers, because I don't know if Villeneuve will follow that storyline.

Except birthing the twins costs Chani her life. In the books, it ends up not being Paul she has to worry about, but Irulan, who perhaps inadvertently poisons her by sneaking contraceptives into her meals because the Bene Gesserit didn't want Chani becoming pregnant with Paul's heir.

Really, the changes to Chani are because Zendaya was cast, and that's not a bad thing. Chalamet needs strong scene partners to interact with, and as a character Paul needs the pushback from someone. Might as well be the woman he claims to love, wife or no wife.

Honestly, I'd be interested in seeing Chani and Irulan interact a lot more, because there's a moment where they make eye contact before Chani leaves, both furious and heartbroken. They'd be tied together through Paul, especially as the war starts.

[Spartan Girl]

5 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Honestly, I'd be interested in seeing Chani and Irulan interact a lot more, because there's a moment where they make eye contact before Chani leaves, both furious and heartbroken. They'd be tied together through Paul, especially as the war starts.

And Irulan didn’t seem threatened by her in that moment—hell, she was practically forced to accepting his proposal, so the look on her face seemed more like sympathy than anything else.

Chani could’ve been pregnant before she left, just saying…

Edited November 4 by Spartan Girl

[DoctorAtomic]

That's probably the easiest. 

You could also retcon that Paul either told her what he was going to do beforehand. 

 

[Affogato]

5 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

And Irulan didn’t seem threatened by her in that moment—hell, she was practically forced to accepting his proposal, so the look on her face seemed more like sympathy than anything else.

Chani could’ve been pregnant before she left, just saying…

In the books they have a child who is killed, as an infant,  it is one of the things that is cut short in the film when the time is compressed. That could be something still to come (but unlikely to be something we see in the film) that brings them back together (did bring them together). 
 

Spoiler

Irulan wanting to birth the heir, as her right as legal wife, and feeding Chani the contraceptives that eventually kill her, is pretty transformative to the story. 

 

[DoctorAtomic]

The SciFi miniseries actually included that. I'd prefer Chani eventually come around, but I could see adding the friction for movie drama. 

I suppose it's a matter if Messiah would be another two movies or not. It's a lot to cram into one movie. 

[Affogato]

It may well start with 

Spoiler

Jessica on caladan with Gurney

And 

Spoiler

Alia an adult who is starting to crack, the fremen rising against the family, etc

Which I think was like the miniseries and the books 

Spoiler

We may end with Paul walking into the desert, but maybe with a sight of the prophet.