Thunderbolts (2024)

[AngieBee1]

14 hours ago, dmeets said:

I really don't get the point of Marvel pretending Taskmaster was in this movie.

Spoiler

She was supposed to be in throughout; then the writers' strike happened and it gave the writers and director time to reflect on the script and they realized it was bloodless and as they are a group of killers he wanted there to be the sense that anyone could die at any moment. They figured if they kept her in too long than tonally they weren't sure how of overcome her death, so they did it earlier.

 

[ICantDoThatDave]

Saw the movie yesterday, but wanted to wait a day to let my thoughts sink in, because...

a) I really enjoyed it, but

2) there were some absolutely horrible writing aspects to it

So, now that I've "reconciled" those two thoughts here's my review (no direct story spoilers, but I will focus on how the specific characters are "handled", so... MILD SPOILER WARNING!!)...

I still recommend it to anyone who enjoyed Phase 1-3 Marvel movies. It's fun. The characters, for the most part, are handled well, if quite a bit inconsistent with what we've seen of them in past movies/TV shows. The story is engaging, the over-arching plot is engaging, & I found myself very invested in the plot & resolution.  As a quick summary, it's easily one the better Phase IV/V Marvel movies.  And I recognize how low a bar that is, but it really is the greatest praise I can give it.

To quickly address point #2 without spoiling: There were a TON of Coincidence #1+#2+#3 need to happen in order for the plot to happen, which are quite noticeable while watching, not even upon reflection. This object needs to hit this object (& ignore physics) to reveal this object. This character needs to conveniently overhear this conversation. This character needs to be able to locate our group despite that being improbable if not impossible (that one happens multiple times)

Full disclosure: I love Yelena as a character, probably my favorite (current) MCU character, so just handling Yelena right is a plus IMO. She's not nearly as... jovial & free & upbeat... as she was in Black Widow or Hawkeye, but it makes sense in her timeline. It's been years (for her) since we've seen her & she is a bit disillusioned with her purpose in life. Which makes sense, but you still get glimpses of her snarkiness & wit. She is absolutely the main character of this movie, & that has its plusses & minuses - the other characters get a bit sidelined/shafted on character development due to the film's focus on her.  Her journey, especially as it relates to Red Guardian, is engaging though. Just wish it hadn't detracted SO MUCH from the other characters.

Red Guardian - He is, as the trailers showed, mostly comic relief, but does have some heart to him. He gets some chances to be the hero & Father he always wanted to be. I'm still always thrown a bit by his competent portrayal at the beginning of Black Widow vs his portrayal from later Black Widow & also in this film, but that's mild.

Taskmaster - Oddly enough, If you hated the portrayal of Taskmaster in Black Widow, you will like the portrayal in this movie. If you were a fan of that portrayal, you likely won't appreciate this as much.

Ghost - is basically a non-entity in this movie.  She gets a few nice scenes, but has little dialogue, no character development or arc, & is far too often conveniently side-lined because her powers would interfere with the plot as written. You could lift her out of the movie & you wouldn't even notice. But how we got from her resolution in Ant-Man & the Wasp to here is one of the things I was referencing above in how this movie kinda forgets prior portrayals of these characters.

Bucky - How to put this? I guess... Sebastian Stan clearly did not want to be there (can't blame him given Bucky's "role" in this plus the Captain Falcon movie). He is an exposition fairy + "get us to the next scene" fairy. As in, he shows up, magically fairy dusts the audience to the next scene, then contributes nothing. Even phoning it in his scenes were fun & engaging, but wow, was he wasted in this. Especially in the ending resolution where he just fades into the background & apparently forgets his character motivation from earlier in the movie.

USAgent - Saved this for last: This character was treated so weird. It's the same impression I had in watching Falcon & the Winter Soldier*: the film clearly wants us to think he's an a-hole. The writers try to make him a punching bag & want the viewers to see him as a failure. They do everything they can to tell us he sucks. But what they show us is that he's pretty cool, & often right, & the group should have listened to him. He isn't always right of course, but most of the time his input is given, ignored & belittled, but then he's shown to be right, & then he gets berated afterwards. There's even a back-story scene for him which is supposed to show him in a bad light but my impression was like "that's it? that's all?". I'm not a USAgent fan or anything, but the show-vs-tell of this character is so inconsistent to me.

* the reason I reference that show was I came away from it thinking: Walker & Lamar, two normal humans at the time, kept trying to team up with Bucky & Sam (a Super Soldier + Falcon) & they kept rejecting him; Walker & Lamar risked their lives multiple times to help Bucky & Sam; eventually Walker & Lamar help Bucky & Sam against a terrorist group who have taken Super Soldier-serum who wind up murdering Lamar (narratively, the equivalent of someone murdering Sam in Steve's presence); Walker chases down & is attacked in public by one of these Super Soldier terrorists who throws fountain at him; Walker kills the terrorist; afterwards instead of having Walker deal with this issue, Sam & Bucky beat him up, break his arm & literally steal The Shield from him.  Anyway, all that weirdness aside, he was shown a the end of F&tWS as being recruited to do something to help his country, kinda OK with what had transpired.  I believe his wife was even shown to be aware of all that. They just completely ignored the character's previous shown back-story & hoped the audience did as well. Again, the tell-don't-show regarding his character was constant here with him.

 

I typed that all out because... I still enjoyed the movie. I still recommend the movie. If I hadn't enjoyed it, I wouldn't have bothered posting about it in depth & just dismissed it as "yet another Marvel fail". I really just wanted to get all my annoyances out... and still say I had fun watching the movie. Go see it in theaters - if just so we nudge Marvel in the direction of "fun" again.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

3 hours ago, ICantDoThatDave said:

* the reason I reference that show was I came away from it thinking: Walker & Lamar, two normal humans at the time, kept trying to team up with Bucky & Sam (a Super Soldier + Falcon) & they kept rejecting him; Walker & Lamar risked their lives multiple times to help Bucky & Sam; eventually Walker & Lamar help Bucky & Sam against a terrorist group who have taken Super Soldier-serum who wind up murdering Lamar (narratively, the equivalent of someone murdering Sam in Steve's presence); Walker chases down & is attacked in public by one of these Super Soldier terrorists who throws fountain at him; Walker kills the terrorist; afterwards instead of having Walker deal with this issue, Sam & Bucky beat him up, break his arm & literally steal The Shield from him.  Anyway, all that weirdness aside, he was shown a the end of F&tWS as being recruited to do something to help his country, kinda OK with what had transpired.  I believe his wife was even shown to be aware of all that. They just completely ignored the character's previous shown back-story & hoped the audience did as well. Again, the tell-don't-show regarding his character was constant here with him.

Not to get too far off-track, but narratively, the only reason John didn't bash Sam's skull in is because Bucky stopped him. And that was after he dd to Barnes exactly what was done to Lamar, pitch him across the room to slam into a metal or stone piling. Sam broke his arm to slow him down after he ripped the Falcon wings off his back and before he hurt one or both of them a lot worse, which hopefully he would have regretted later.

In the 'shame room' scene, they show him staring at his phone, which has an article about his rapid fall from grace as Captain America, which both Ava and Yelena make comments about. He was clearly trying to move forward after his wife left, do something good, but I don't think we can ignore that Valentina set him up to be murdered because he was a loose end she wanted snipped. Who knows what he was up to in the interim, since Yelena was blowing up random laboratories while being employed by the Countess. John is still very much a soldier, one who follows orders, but there was literally no other reason for him to be aggressive with the (at the time) harmless and vaguely out of it Bob except that he hasn't left behind his jackass tendencies.

[BaggythePanther]

23 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Given the Sam mentions along with time passing aesthetic changes like Alexi shaving and Yelena and Bucky growing their hair I'm leaning toward the ship indicating this scene is set during Doomsday.

The Russo brothers directed this scene so you’re probably right.

[ICantDoThatDave]

39 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Not to get too far off-track

I get that sentiment, but it's an... enjoyable debate, & I don't think we're that far off, given that it (should, but really didn't) affect characters in this movie so...

39 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

but narratively, the only reason John didn't bash Sam's skull in is because Bucky stopped him. And that was after he dd to Barnes exactly what was done to Lamar, pitch him across the room to slam into a metal or stone piling.

I think? you're jumping  ahead here - I'm referring to the scene where Bucky & Sam confronted him after Lamar was just murdered in front of John's eyes by the Flag Smashers? If I have that wrong, I'm open to re-interpreting it, but Lamar was "just a regular human".

EDIT: although, even if we're referring to the same scene, I think my below points are apt:

39 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Sam broke his arm to slow him down after he ripped the Falcon wings off his back and before he hurt one or both of them a lot worse, which hopefully he would have regretted later.

True, but why? Why did they even attack him? Why did they even confront him? His BFF *just died*. I know according to film rules "your BFF just died" is meaningless, but in a well-written show that would actually mean something.

39 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Who knows what he was up to in the interim, since Yelena was blowing up random laboratories while being employed by the Countess. John is still very much a soldier, one who follows orders, but there was literally no other reason for him to be aggressive with the (at the time) harmless and vaguely out of it Bob except that he hasn't left behind his jackass tendencies.

Oh, agreed.  That should have been explored. A more meaningful, or multiple meaningful "shame room" scenes for Walker (honestly, all of them, most didn't even get ONE) would have been better writing.

Edited Monday at 03:08 AM by ICantDoThatDave

[tv echo]

Weekend Box Office: Thunderbolts* Secures $76 Million Debut
The latest chapter of the MCU easily took the top spot, impressing critics along the way, while Ryan Coogler's Sinners continues to post impressive numbers.
by Erik Childress | May 4, 2025
https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/weekend-box-office-thunderbolts-secures-76-million-debut/

Quote

Thunderbolts* is, indeed, the best-reviewed film in the Marvel Cinematic Universe since Spider-Man: No Way Home. The film is holding onto a Certified Fresh 88% with critics, better than Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (82%), Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 (82%), and Deadpool & Wolverine (79%). The latter was certainly a massive success for everyone involved, but it has also felt like an outlier of late, which feels odd given that five of the last eight MCU movies grossed over $343 million domestically and over $760 million worldwide. Both of those numbers belong to Thor: Love and Thunder, also one of the lowest-rated MCU entries. Just not quite as low as The Marvels, Captain America: Brave New World, and Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania.

Perception is king sometimes, though, and those three movies are not remembered in glowing terms in either the creative or financial departments. That may be why Thunderbolts* feels like a small breath of fresh air backed by a number of reviewers. Its $76 million opening weekend will pass The Marvels’ entire domestic gross this week, but it still falls below Brave New World’s $88.8 million. That film claimed the smallest of victories by inching its way over $200 million, a task it took 62 days to complete. In the post-Avengers world of 2012 and beyond, only four MCU films made less money, and two of them (Black Widow and Eternals) could be given the pandemic asterisk.

Critics are on board with Thunderbolts*, but will the fans be? More importantly, will the casual fans be reinvigorated to give it a go? Given how many huge openings these films have had, it’s not surprising that only 10 of them made over three times their first three days. More concerning for Marvel is that seven of their 10 lowest opening weekend multiples have come since 2021. Yes, two of those were Black Widow and Eternals, but they were also higher than Brave New World, The Marvels, Quantumania, and the Doctor Strange sequel. Sure, Guardians 3 and Deadpool &Wolverine are in that top 10 list, but the thuds have hit louder — at least on the creative side, much more than the financial. But here we are with an $180 million production getting off to the 28th-best start out of 36 MCU titles with another $86 million internationally. ....

Edited Monday at 10:45 AM by tv echo

[tv echo]

‘Thunderbolts*’ Gives Marvel Movies Their Momentum Back
For the first time in years, the Multiverse Saga seems to be going somewhere
By Daniel Chin   May 5, 2025
https://www.theringer.com/2025/05/05/marvel/thunderbolts-marvel-movies-momentum-mcu-multiverse-saga 

Quote

Much like Yelena, the MCU has been in desperate need of a change. And Thunderbolts* is here to provide relief—and, just as importantly, purpose. Suddenly, Marvel movies have their momentum back.
*  *  *
First Steps arrives in theaters in late July, so we’ll find out what happens to the Fantastic Four and their planet soon enough. But for now, Thunderbolts* is a much-needed win for Marvel Studios. Despite its blemishes, it’s an entertaining, mostly self-contained film that isn’t a direct sequel to a previous MCU movie and doesn’t hinge on fan-pleasing nostalgia to drive its success. Thunderbolts* is off to a strong start with critics and audiences, and for the first time in years, the Multiverse Saga seems to be headed for an exciting destination.

Baron Zemo and Kang Were in Early Drafts of Thunderbolts (and Other Rejected Ideas)
Zemo would’ve been the “Keyser Söze” of the movie.
By Scott Collura   May 5, 2025
https://www.ign.com/articles/baron-zemo-and-kang-were-in-early-drafts-of-thunderbolts-and-other-rejected-ideas 

Quote

In a conversation with the writer, he explained to me that while he took a couple of stabs at post-credits scenes for Thunderbolts, the Hollywood strikes interfered with the production of the film. Things were paused for six or seven months and then had to go back into pre-production, but the Marvel landscape had changed by then. And that led to a rethinking on the post-credits front as well, which of course are typically used to tee up incoming MCU projects.

“So I was throwing together at the beginning a post-credit sequence that had to deal with Kang,” says the writer.
*  *  *
“[Another idea] had to deal with more of a direct relation to the fact that [Julia Louis-Dreyfus’] Valentina [Allegra de Fontaine] sent Yelena after Clint Barton, after Hawkeye, [for] the Hawkeye show,” continues Pearson. “But as time passes, you're like, well, is anyone going to make that connection still to the thing that they haven't seen in two or three years?”
*  *  *
“We wanted to do something different than ‘authority figure forces criminals to work together,’” says Pearson. “And once you take that out, the people from the comics who have put them together [the team] in the past, the Baron Zemos, the Thunderbolt Rosses, they don't fit the narrative in the same way. So while we're very aware and we talked about these ideas and, hey, if there was ever a way to include them, it's great because it makes sense and it honors the comics. But we also didn't want to break our story that we were excited about just to do fan service.”
*  *  *
Pearson also confirmed that Thunderbolt Ross, most recently played by Harrison Ford in Captain America: Brave New World, was never considered for Thunderbolts (similar names notwithstanding). That said, Zemo, who has been played by Daniel Brühl in Avengers: Civil War and The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, at least made it into a draft, albeit briefly.

“There was definitely a [post-credits] tag that I did a million years ago where Zemo is like Keyser Söze,” says Pearson, referring to the character from The Usual Suspects. “Like he's been pulling the strings from prison in some way. But I don't think that iteration lived longer than like, ‘Hey, what about this?’ ‘Nope, not that.’”

Thunderbolts Producer Hints Whether Fans Will See Songbird Aka Melissa Gold In MCU
Sonal Pandya   May 5, 2025
https://www.timesnownews.com/entertainment-news/hollywood/thunderbolts-producer-hints-whether-fans-will-see-songbird-aka-melissa-gold-in-mcu-article-151567213 

Quote

At the Thunderbolts* premiere in Los Angeles, executive producer Brian Chapek was asked by IMDb to share some behind-the-scenes trivia about the superhero film. He seemingly confirmed that Mel will become Songbird in the future of the MCU. He stated, "There is a character that fans are trying to figure out is she or is she not — I would say what emblem does she wear that may or may not hint at this character’s larger identity.”

 

Edited Monday at 11:38 AM by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

15 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

John is still very much a soldier, one who follows orders, but there was literally no other reason for him to be aggressive with the (at the time) harmless and vaguely out of it Bob except that he hasn't left behind his jackass tendencies.

They kind of dropped it out of the Vault but i recall seeing Walker have a few ticks when he was getting worked up. 

That's not to excuse Walker just being an arrogant ass...he still is 😁

[BaggythePanther]

Marvel is already changing the marketing,

Spoiler

revealing the Thunderbolts’s new name.

I’m curious to know someone’s perspective on the movie if they’ve been spoiled by the marketing.

[KeithJ]

7 minutes ago, BaggythePanther said:

I’m curious to know someone’s perspective on the movie if they’ve been spoiled by the marketing.

I don't get this either.  All the theaters actually still have Thunderbolts listed but they're using the new poster with the new name. That's not going to cause any confusion at all. smh

Spoiler

Besides, I don't know how they can call it "New Avengers" when Taskmaster is still pictured on everything.

 

[iarwain]

I see the weekend box office was disappointing for this, even less than Captain America 4.  So it looks like another money loser for Disney/Marvel.  A shame too, since IMO this movie looks like it might be pretty good, and the people who have seen it seem to like it.  

I've heard some people say they hope that positive word of mouth will give it legs, but Marvel movies usually take a deep dive come their second weekend.  The audience is usually front loaded.  I'm not sure the word of mouth will be able to combat that trend.

[KeithJ]

37 minutes ago, iarwain said:

 

I see the weekend box office was disappointing for this, even less than Captain America 4.

 

I saw some other sites saying it bombed at the box office as well.  I don’t know what the budget was but $76 million seemed pretty respectable.  Yeah, second lowest of all Marvel movies but the box office just isn’t as strong as it was before covid.

[baldryanr]

11 minutes ago, KeithJ said:

I saw some other sites saying it bombed at the box office as well.  I don’t know what the budget was but $76 million seemed pretty respectable.  Yeah, second lowest of all Marvel movies but the box office just isn’t as strong as it was before covid.

Depends on the narrative.  The MCU continues to crash and burn?  Man, what a disappointment.  We're in a new era and expectations have to be altered?  This is fantastic for a team movie lacking an A-list character (sorry Bucky and Yelena, but you're not there yet).  But yeah, ultimately it's going to come down to how well it can minimize the massive second week drop.

[tennisgurl]

I came here for some wacky "ragtag misfits become heroes" hijinks, I did not expect to get that mixed with "the real villain is suicidal ideation" alongside all of that, and I am most shocked that it worked as well as it did. I would say that this is the MCU's strongest movie in years, I think it found the tone that the MCU has been struggling with for awhile, getting that balance between action fun and more serious character stuff.

I admit that, even as the MCU has struggled in the last few years, I have still more or less enjoyed most of its output, even the ones that are less than great, so I am the exact audience member that is here for an MCU comeback and for them to find some direction, so I am really happy that this seems to be a return to form. Its like the powers that be finally remembered what made the MCU such a huge deal in the first place, interesting characters that aren't the most famous characters but are well written and well played by talented actors, and decided to give that a try again instead of trying to outdo themselves in cameos and budget. 

I am so happy to see so much of Yelena, I adore her and Florence Pugh is such a superstar. Just about everyone gets a few good times to shine, but this is definitely Yelena's movie and Florence is just so good, she can do it all. She can do the drama, the action, the quippy comedy, she works well with other actors in an ensemble, she is truly the glue holding the movie together. I also really enjoyed Bucky's role in this, he's really in a good place right now and you can see him becoming more of a leader and figuring out his place in the world. Him becoming a politician is just so random, it feels like something that was sold to him as a way to do good and use his experience to help people without having to fight, but in every scene of him tying to do political stuff, he looked more and more uncomfortable, he must have been thrilled when he was told that he could run off to attack some bad guys with a motorcycle and arrest some rogue operatives. He's going to have a much better time as a team leader to dysfunctional but mostly well meaning former bad guys and mercenaries trying to fight evil than trying to give press conferences. 

David Harbour is so good, every time I think that Alexei is going way too broad he comes back with so much sincerity, especially with Yelena. The whole bit where she admitted how lonely and empty she feels and he comforted her and told her about how much light she has always had no matter what happened to her, that really got me. I am also really happy that they brought John Walker and Ava Starr back, who are both really interesting sympathetic antagonists that still obviously had a lot of story to tell and played by excellent actors. It feels really weird that they brought Taskmaster back for this one second cameo, I wish that she could have been a bit more of a character.

I am pretty impressed that they decided to do The Sentry, who is such a controversial character for comic audiences and such a weird character to do right, and I think they did a shockingly good job with him. Lewis Pullman had a rough job in front of him, being goofy nice guy Bob, all powerful Sentry, and terrifying depression monster Void, and I think he really pulled it off. I think it was a great call to really lean into the characters backstory of mental illness and drug addition and make it basically the thesis of the movie, with his void powers being a metaphor for depression and the way shame and trauma can lead you to isolate and spiral until you don't have anything else. Having the real villain be a metaphor for depression is not exactly a new thing, but I am impressed at how dark they went with it in this one, his depression powers were so obviously tied into suicidal ideation and severe mental illness, and I like how far they went with the metaphor in the end. I really like how near the end he starts beating up his dark void self, which you would think would be the answer, but that just makes him worse as isolation and self hatred sets in even more and makes you feel even worse, what you actually need is understand and support. Everyone giving Bob a hug is so cheesy but its works like the best of the MCU's kind of cheese because its so sincere and it lines up so well with the story being told. 

Those empty black shadows left when people were sucked into the void were horrifying, my whole audience about screamed when that little girl disappeared. 

Valentina is so awful but I just love her, she's so unapologetically the worst. She's also a survivor, she made a lot of short sighted amoral actions, like manipulating poor drug addicts into becoming test subjects so that she can make her own Homelander not thinking about how that could backfire and trying to murder her own assassins to cover up loose ends not thinking of how that could backfire, but she truly has nine lives. You could see the wheels turning in her head when she watched the crowd cheer the team after they saved some people, like she is already planning how she can make this work to her advantage. I'm not even mad that she ended up manipulating things so that she could claim responsibility for creating a brand new super team even after being responsible for all of New York being almost destroyed by a massive depressive episode, I'm just impressed. 

I really liked this movie, its definitely the best movie the MCU has put out in awhile, its too bad that we are heading into our next big multiverse crossover that will shake everything up in the MCU again, I would have loved to see this team in a sequel, something like a Guardians 2 where the team is together already and can focus more on deeper character stuff, especially when we had such a strong start with such a great cast. I am also really curious about what Sam is up to, is he actually angry about legal issues or is he just messing with Bucky, as he enjoys doing? 

Edited Monday at 08:55 PM by tennisgurl

[Danny Franks]

So first thing - I hate Sentry. I hated when he was introduced in the comics as Bendis' idea of "Marvel's answer to Superman." He was a lousy character that readers hated, and the only way they could try to make him interesting was having him be mentally unstable and liable to kill everyone. Still didn't work. He was a dud. They ended up building a big event story just to kill him off (and characters still got thrown under the bus in the name of making him seem cooler, even after death).

So I liked the idea of Sentry as the antagonist in this movie because, when done right, he could be terrifying. I think they were nine tenths of the way there with him, but chickened out at the last and had him just become Bob again, with all his crimes undone.

Yes, these characters could never actually kill him, but he should have removed himself at the end, rather than just lost his memory. Flew off into space, imploded himself into the void, something to do what Marvel comics realised they needed to do - get rid of the ultimate narrative breaker who can do anything. The ending was too neat and cutesy, it felt like there was no cost to the movie.

And that's a shame, because I enjoyed most of the rest of it - the common factor for all these characters being this feeling of emptiness and loneliness that they can't overcome, being brought together to fight the embodiment of the void.

Yelena was clearly the star, and Florence Pugh just has It. She commands the screen and you can feel her yearning for some kind of meaning to her life. The best scenes were between her and David Harbour, whether they were played for laughs or played for real pathos.

I swear, if they do a reheated Natasha/Bruce 'soothe the savage beast' storyline for her and Bob in future movies, I will lose my shit. That's the last thing Yelena needs to be saddled with, when she should be the centrepiece of any movie.

Bucky still feels like a character that the MCU has never managed to do justice to, and that sadly didn't change here. Stan is really good, but he doesn't get a whole lot of interesting material, just as he didn't in Falcon and The Winter Soldier.

Leaning into Walker being a raging asshole is always fun, and I loved how strong he came on with that in his first scenes. Ghost is just... there. I don't remember a single thing about her from the Ant-Man movie, and she was okay I guess.

Red Guardian gets the laughs, and I really loved the scene where he appeared in the desert in his limo, and Yelena had a full on, 'my embarrassing dad is making a scene' reaction.

Valentina feels so much like Selina Meyer has been inserted into the MCU, and it made me wish that Anna Chlumsky was playing her assistant. JLD is always great, and the constant conniving, self-preservation and scheming was a lot of fun.

The post-credits scene. Is Sam actually putting a team together? I didn't see Captain America 4. The idea of him suing Bucky's team for the name is pretty funny, and the comics have done plenty of multiple Avengers teams stories without ever using that plot device. But I would rather watch this team in another movie than whoever Sam might bring in.

And then we get the real tease, which I assume will tie into how Fantastic Four ends - they do their movie in their future-60s universe, then end up being transported to the MCU main? That makes sense, but I really like the look of the F4 universe from the trailer, it looks a lot of fun.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

5 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Bucky still feels like a character that the MCU has never managed to do justice to, and that sadly didn't change here. Stan is really good, but he doesn't get a whole lot of interesting material, just as he didn't in Falcon and The Winter Soldier.

At this point, I think it will do Bucky a world of good as a character to not be around people who fall all over themselves to make his life easier and more comfortable, which is all the good guys have ever done. If he doesn't get anything really interesting to do, it's because the writers can't move him past looking like Grumpy Cat while everyone has to look out for him. If it has to be idiot Alexei and Mega Tool John Walker, then okay.

Also, I forgot to mention I really liked Val's assistant with her growing crisis of conscience. What must her interview process be like? "Soul not required"?

[Spartan Girl]

11 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Bucky still feels like a character that the MCU has never managed to do justice to, and that sadly didn't change here

Oh there are MANY characters the MCU never did justice too…

[tv echo]

Sebastian Stan and Wyatt Russell React to the 'Thunderbolts*' Post Credit Scene (Spoilers)
Fandango   May 5, 2025

Marvel Studios' Thunderbolts* The New Avengers | #1 Movie
Marvel Entertainment   May 5, 2025

[tv echo]

[tv echo]

‘Thunderbolts*’ Axes the Asterisk to Market Its Surprise Title Reveal
A plot twist that comes in the movie’s final moments will now be front and center on billboards. The director Jake Schreier explains the rebrand.
By Kyle Buchanana   May 5, 2025
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/05/movies/thunderbolts-asterisk-title.html 

Quote

After three days in theaters, that rebrand has now made its way to billboards. “It felt like, if Val is also trying to pull a switcheroo and sell the New Avengers to the world, we could do that, too,” Schreier said in an interview with The Times on Saturday. “Especially given that the asterisk has been on the movie for a year, hopefully it doesn’t feel sweaty — it feels like this was a plan and we built up to it.”

Incorporating the new moniker into the marketing may also be an acknowledgment that keeping a movie secret is harder than ever these days, when surprises can be splashed across social media within milliseconds of release. Schreier, who pitched the asterisk during his initial meetings on the movie, credits Marvel Studios and its president, Kevin Feige, for a willingness to experiment with the title switch.

“It’s very fun that they were open to embracing that,” Schreier said. He acknowledged that clips containing the spoiler have already made their way online, so why not make it work in their favor?

“It’s so interesting in this world, and Kevin talks about it sometimes, where sometimes they wanted things to leak and they don’t,” Schreier said. “I think we all assumed that it would be a bigger part of the conversation already, so it’ll be interesting to see what happens.”

 

Edited Tuesday at 01:48 PM by tv echo

[Danny Franks]

I feel like this marketing campaign would have worked even better if they could get JLD to do a toothachingly sincere announcement of the New Avengers on Marvel's social media.

[Raja]

On 5/5/2025 at 3:11 PM, Danny Franks said:

The post-credits scene. Is Sam actually putting a team together? I didn't see Captain America 4. The idea of him suing Bucky's team for the name is pretty funny, and the comics have done plenty of multiple Avengers teams stories without ever using that plot device. But I would rather watch this team in another movie than whoever Sam might bring in.

I couldn't help but think of Bruce Banner in Avengers: Infinity War asking if the Avengers broke up like a band. With two different "bands" on the oldies tour lead by an Avenger, but one being named by an American CIA Director who is under a political and legal cloud if we believe Congressman Bunk. Bucky's case of being at the Battle in Wakanda and the Battle of Earth, are suing each other for the use of the band name on tour.

On 5/5/2025 at 3:11 PM, Danny Franks said:

And then we get the real tease, which I assume will tie into how Fantastic Four ends - they do their movie in their future-60s universe, then end up being transported to the MCU main? That makes sense, but I really like the look of the F4 universe from the trailer, it looks a lot of fun.

I guess S.W.O.R.D. from The Marvels had already told everybody what to look for. It seems that while Congressman Barnes and Walker have commanded units in combat like Cap, Yelena is the leader of the New Avengerz.

On 5/5/2025 at 3:11 PM, Danny Franks said:

Ghost is just... there. I don't remember a single thing about her from the Ant-Man movie, and she was okay I guess.

Given her superpower Ghost could have been the most powerful New Avenger, as long as Bob remains Bob. But the CIA having sonic cannons really nerfed her.

 

On 5/3/2025 at 11:41 AM, dmeets said:

I really don't get the point of Marvel pretending Taskmaster was in this movie. It really feels it was a way to appease the raging fanboys who were pissed that we didn't get Tony Masters. "We hear you. Here you go, one line then a bullet to her head! Happy now?"

I guess we did get the scene of the S.H.I.E.L.D. assassin with the killing shot and the Red Room assassin just write it off as the breaks of their career path.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

6 hours ago, Raja said:

Bucky's case of being at the Battle in Wakanda and the Battle of Earth, are suing each other for the use of the band name on tour.

 

[tv echo]

Marvel Studios' Thunderbolts* #TheNewAvengers | Speed Round
Marvel Entertainment   May 6, 2025

[tv echo]

This is interesting (too much I wanted to quote) - Pearson talks about previous versions including Taskmaster living and developing a sisterly relationship with Ava/Ghost, a deleted scene of Yelena confronting Valentina about setting her up to kill Clint Barton (which Valentina manipulated), a previous concept where John Walker becomes the monster that the team has to talk down (prior to Sentry), Melina's absence from the movie (Alexei had the strong bond with Yelena, while Melina had the strong bond with Natasha), and the asterisk idea...

‘Thunderbolts*’ Co-Writer Eric Pearson Talks ‘The New Avengers’ Reveal, Pre-Sentry Villain and Original Taskmaster Arc
By Brian Davids   May 5, 2025
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/thunderbolts-writer-death-john-walker-1236207295/ 

Edited Wednesday at 02:36 PM by tv echo

[iarwain]

On 5/5/2025 at 3:46 PM, KeithJ said:

I saw some other sites saying it bombed at the box office as well.  I don’t know what the budget was but $76 million seemed pretty respectable.  Yeah, second lowest of all Marvel movies but the box office just isn’t as strong as it was before covid.

Yeah, $76 million sounds like a lot of money.  And it is.  But it's all in the budget.  From what I've heard the production budget for Thunderbolts was $160 million (which is actually pretty low for a superhero movie).  But then you have to double that for the marketing and advertising budget.  And then Disney only receives about half the ticket sales, so it adds up.  

If they want superhero movies to survive, they may have to just find a way to reduce the budgets, and we'll have to sit through some garbage effects.

[Morrigan2575]

4 hours ago, iarwain said:

Yeah, $76 million sounds like a lot of money.  And it is.  But it's all in the budget.  From what I've heard the production budget for Thunderbolts was $160 million (which is actually pretty low for a superhero movie).  But then you have to double that for the marketing and advertising budget.  And then Disney only receives about half the ticket sales, so it adds up.  

If they want superhero movies to survive, they may have to just find a way to reduce the budgets, and we'll have to sit through some garbage effects.

Rule of thumb is 2.5 production budget for break even, if the production budget was $160M they need about $400M WW to breakeven/start turning a profit. 

Of course these are generic numbers and I'm sure Forbes will do a run down or we'll get some info at the next shareholders meeting.  Not to mention that studios love reporting losses or minimal profits so they don't have to pay points. 😃

Ultimately, we'll have to see if good/strong word of mouth can help get a weak opening to $400M, and A- CinemaScore should have a decent multiplier so it's possible 🤑

[Raja]

All I can add to the money discussion is that with half of the screens on the discount day matinée my local chain theatre was busier than it has been in a long time. 

[tv echo]

Thunderbolts* Is 'The First and Best Example' of Marvel’s New Focus on Quality Over Quantity, Disney Boss Bob Iger Says — but Will It Turn a Profit?
By Wesley Yin-Poole   May 8, 2025
https://www.ign.com/articles/thunderbolts-is-the-first-and-best-example-of-marvels-new-focus-on-quality-over-quantity-disney-boss-bob-iger-says-but-will-it-turn-a-profit 

Quote

Thunderbolts* topped the domestic box office with a $76 million opening, a start that was seen as solid rather than spectacular. For context, that’s ahead of Eternals ($71 million) and Ant-Man and the Wasp ($75 million), which were both considered flops, but below most other MCU movies' opening hauls.

However, Thunderbolts* is going down well with audiences and critics. IGN’s Thunderbolts* review returned a 7/10. We said: “Thunderbolts* has, like its sort-of-not-really antagonist, both a dark half and a light half. But only one of them is actually pretty great (hint: it’s the one that involves plumbing the depths of the characters’ worst memories).”
*  *  *
Now, speaking during a financial call, Disney boss Bob Iger touched on Marvel’s changed strategy, which targets fewer but better films.

“We all know that in our zeal to flood our streaming platform with more content, that we turned to all of our creative engines, including Marvel, and had them produce a lot more,” Iger said.

“We’ve also learned over time that quantity does not necessarily beget quality. And frankly, we’ve all admitted to ourselves that we lost a little focus by making too much. By consolidating a bit and having Marvel focus much more on their films, we believe that will result in better quality. I think the first and best example is Thunderbolts*. I feel very good about that.”
*  *  *
The big question for Disney will be whether Thunderbolts* turns a profit. Thunderbolts* made $162 million at the global box office during launch weekend, behind February’s Captain America: Brave New World ($192 million). According to Variety, Disney spent $180 million to make Thunderbolts* and another $100 million to market it. So Thunderbolts* needs to show staying power globally to turn a profit theatrically.

To that end, Marvel’s marketing for the film has seen it rebranded with a different title, and the on-screen dispute between Sam Wilson’s Avengers and this new superhero team dragged into the real world. Clearly, Marvel is hoping that interest in Thunderbolts* continues in the coming months, as it heads into the crucial launch of Phase 6 kickstarter The Fantastic Four: First Steps in July.

Edited Thursday at 12:56 PM by tv echo

[tv echo]

Marvel Studios' Thunderbolts* #TheNewAvengers | Support Group
Marvel Entertainment   May 7, 2025

Inside Thunderbolts* with Sebastian Stan and Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Marvel Entertainment   May 7, 2025

Quote

This week, we’ll peek behind the curtain of Marvel Studios’ Thunderbolts* with stars Julia Louis-Dreyfus, Geraldine Viswanathan, Lewis Pullman, and Sebastian Stan. ....

[Lantern7]

Saw this on Facebook. Thought it was cute and fitting.

Edited Yest. at 01:49 AM by Lantern7

[tv echo]

Marvel Studios' Thunderbolts* | Limo Chase Scene | Official Clip
Marvel Entertainment   May 8, 2025

Marvel Studios’ Thunderbolts* | Disney+ Special Look | Now Playing in Theaters
Marvel Entertainment   May 8, 2025

Thunderbolts* | Unboxing with Florence Pugh, David Harbour, and Wyatt Russell
Marvel Entertainment   May 8, 2025