Season 5 Speculation WITH Spoilers (US)

[Rhondinella]

From the IB Times, a possible spoiler about S 5, which is currently filming:

"According to media buzz, Lady Mary, played by Michelle Dockery, has picked her potential suitor on Season 5. Hollywood Life reports that Michelle was spotted passionately kissing a known face, which is likely to surprise the fans of this British period drama. The report revealed the big surprise, saying it is Anthony "Tony" Gillingham, played by Tony Cullen. According to the report, "things got pretty dramatic. Needless to say, Mabel Lane Fox is not happy about these new shots."

Also, casting news which has also been reported elsewhere:

"In the upcoming season, there is addition of three new characters. These characters are Simon Bricker, played by Richard E. Grant, Lady Anstruther, played by Anna Chancellor, and Kuragin, played by Rade Sherbedgia."

There's a decent roundup of news and spoilers about Season 5 (although, really, no serious spoilers, just a lot of talk and speculation) here.

[annzeepark914]

I hope this isn't what will happen.  He comes across as a very nice gentleman but I think we've already been informed that he's broke (which is why he hired that awful valet..he said Greene was all he could afford) so he may be after Mary for her wealth/estate.

[Badger]

It's still early days in terms of filming, so I don't know that a scene of Lady Mary and Lord Gillingham kissing passionately really means anything just yet. And would it really be all that surprising that he was the one she chooses?  They come from similar backgrounds in terms of class and she's always been attracted to him, she just wasn't in a place where she could contemplate having a relationship with anyone.  

[Camera One]

They could have her pick one, and then later in the season, realized she made the wrong choice.  That would be a horrible storyline, but that wouldn't be unusual.  It did seem like last season that Blake was the one she was leaning towards, so I can see her choosing Gillingham as a way to prolong their endgame pairing Blake (or Tom or whoever).

[spottedreptile]

Sigh. Mary. Suitors. Honestly, it's getting so dragged out and dull I almost wish she'd find a woman and run off with her.

Richard E. Grant might bring some spark back to DA, though.

[Kohola3]

Sigh. Mary. Suitors.

 

I totally agree.  It's an extremely boring story line - just pick somebody and move on for heaven's sake.  And what makes her so desirable is a bit of a head-scratcher to me.  She's always so cold, calculating, and haughty.  That barn scene was so out of character that it grated.

[Andorra]

What we know so far is: EMG was very busy touring with her band during the first block of filming. She ended her tour on March 16th and they started filming episode 3 and 4 on March 17th.

I think Cora won't be much in the first two episodes for that reason and maybe go to America? Allen Leech said that he found something out in the script of episode 1 that "deeply saddened" him. My guess is: Martha died in the hiatus and Cora will go to her funeral in America.

They have been filming in Highclere for the last weeks and will move to film on location now. They haven't been in Bampton so far, so I think they will shoot the Bampton scenes out of sequence and do all scenes for Episode 1-4 in April when they're going to be in the village for the first time this year.

We also know that the "Downton school " where Sarah Bunting works is filmed in Burghclere. They've been seen filming there in the block for episode 1 and 2. Laura Carmichaels, Allen Leech and probably Daisy Lewis were on set. Someone said he saw a "very small wedding dress", but I doubt it was for a wedding between one of the main characters. They were filming in a school after all, not in a church.

[photo fox]

Someone said he saw a "very small wedding dress", but I doubt it was for a wedding between one of the main characters. They were filming in a school after all, not in a church.

How small, I wonder? Child-size? Maybe a first Communion dress for Sybbie? Assuming they did the white dress and veil in that time period on that side of The Pond. How big is the time jump this season? Edited April 3, 2014 by photo fox

[Rhondinella]

Well, a wedding dress in a school would seem to point to Sarah Bunting marrying Branson, wouldn't it?  I mean, who else would get married in a school?

[Andorra]

Sybbie is far too young for first communion. She is turning 4 when the series starts and you go to first communion when you're 9.

 

Tom marrying Sarah Bunting? Never. He didn't even seem to like her. He certainly wasn't in love with her when we left the show. And you think Fellows would skip a whole romantic storyline for one of the most popular young characters and move to a wedding in the first episode of season 5? With a character who seems to be universally hated all over the internet.

 

I don't think so.

 

If the dress was a wedding dress, I think it was just for one of the extras. But why should someone marry in a school? Doesn't make sense.

We know Tom Branson was in a regular suit, so I doubt he's marrying someone.

Maybe there was a school play or something? And Tom and Edith went there as members of the Grantham house? Because Edith was there, too. We have a picture of Laura and Allen in Burghclere. None of Daisy Lewis, but someone tweeted she saw "Tom and that teacher" on the street.

[Rhondinella]

I didn't realize it was in the first episode.  That does seem somewhat problematic for my theory.  However, keep in mind that this is Fellowes who does seem to love his melodrama.  Probably we find out in the first ep that Branson knocked Sarah up and so they are having a shotgun wedding.  Honestly I wouldn't be surprised by much of anything that happens on this show anymore.

As for Branson not liking her--I thought he did like her?  I don't remember that well.  But, c'mon.  An independent woman who shares his views on the world?  They wouldn't introduce her if she and Branson weren't going to end up together in some fashion eventually.

[Andorra]

 

As for Branson not liking her--I thought he did like her?  I don't remember that well.  But, c'mon.  An independent woman who shares his views on the world?  They wouldn't introduce her if she and Branson weren't going to end up together in some fashion eventually.

Nope, I really don't think she will be his endgame. She was way too rude, insulting and uncouth for that. He seemed more bewildered than enamoured by her. And certainly not very interested. More than once he juset left her standing. He never sought her out, they only ran into each other by accident or we saw HER adressing HIM.

He also never lingered and only seemed to invite her along to the pub, because she said "I thought you avoided me". And then after talking with Violet he even forgot his invitation and she had to remind him of it. She was the one asking to be taken to the house. She wanted to go upstairs even though he said he felt awkward about that, but she just shrugged it off and brushed past him.

Then she insulted Cora TWICE. First at the bazar and then again at the house. Cora of all people! Cora has been nothing but supportive to Tom, so he clearly won't like that.

Also she is constantly insulting him and his life choices. Sharing his views? I don't think so. I think she is there to show he can't go back. I'm very sure JF will pair him with a posh girl again and Sarah is there to rule out the "middleclass option". Perfect on paper, but so lacking in personality that everyone will root for him to marry up again.

But anyway: If Sarah Bunting is going to be his endgame, I won't watch. In fact I will wait to watch a single episode until I know what way this storyline will take. I won't watch him end up with a shrew. After Sybil?? No way. I want a nice romantic storyline for him, but with a woman who is lovely and nice and interesting. Not intrusive, uncouth and harsh and looking like a middleaged spinster.

[Rhondinella]

I hope you're right.  But I just don't understand the purpose of introducing her at all if they weren't eventually going to end up together.

[Andorra]

Well, I think she'll be an "obstacle" to his real love interest. Like Carlisle an Lavina were for Mary and Matthew and she's there to tie him closer to the family. His whole storyline in season 4 was about finding out where he belongs and he is still in doubt if he can truly stay at Downton. Now she's always accusing him of being a sellout, "changing", not being genuinely loved by the family, uses as a "beast of burden", but instead of seperating him from the family, he will find out that they are "his people" now.

He said to Edith (and to Violet) that he won't allow people to run over him again. He didn't allow Thomas to run over him when he wanted to sit in the back of the car with him. Sarah Bunting DID run over him though. She completely disregarded his feelings when she went upstairs even though he told her he felt awkward about it.

So I think he won't allow it to happen a second time.

[Rhondinella]

So, what "love interest" is she an obstacle to?  Please don't say "Mary" cause I don't want to barf.

[Andorra]

My bet is on Madeline Allsop.

I wonder why she got so much screentime. A complete uknown actress got a really big storyline with the most famous guest star of the season. In one episode her character got more established than Sarah Bunting ever was. We know nothing at all about Sarah Bunting so far, but we know plenty about Madeline Allsop.  She is toff, but poor. She doesn't "want to play her father's game". She is "not afraid to live without money". She is open and even a bit mischievous. Not restraint and shy. She's lovely and she looks remarkably like Sybil.

I think, if I'm right, JF was very clever. He established the character without even a hint at Tom. They didn't have one single scene together. Maybe they didn't even meet. So if Madeline comes back in season 5 (and I predict she will) they will start completely fresh. When you look closely, you'll see the response to Madeline was very positive all over the internet. On twitter for example, Poppy Drayton gained about 900 followers just through Downton alone. There were numerious tweets that people want to see her back in season 5. On the official Downton facebook page, hundreds of people posted they want her back and curiously many of them said "she would be a great love interest for Tom".

I'm sure Tom will marry up again. A posh girl is the only acceptable option for his position with the Crawleys and as a stepmother for Sybbie. He could also marry a middleclass girl, like Lavinia was. A daughter of a solicitor or a doctor, but there's no one on the horizon.

The only "options" he got were Edna, as the working class option, who was a stalker and a manipulative witch. And Sarah Bunting, but it is obvious that she and the Crawleys won't work out. And surprisingly not because of the Crawleys (although Violet snubbed her), but because of HER. She is the one not being ready to accept Tom's toff relations and he's not available without them. He has a daughter who will be raised as an Earl's granddaughter and whoever he is going to marry, she has to accept that and be her rolemodel. Can you see Sarah Bunting as the rolemodel for Sybbie? I can't. Sarah Bunting with no manners, a harsh voice and a thick accent. She's independent, but she lacks politeness and gentleness. She hates the aristocracy and would never been able to accept that Sybbie (and Tom) will always be connected to Sybil's family.

Also I think Julian Fellows will want to keep Tom at the Abbey. If he married a middleclass woman, he would have to move out and for sheer practical reasons Julian Fellows won't want that. Everyone has to be at the Abbey all the time. Bad enough that Isobel and Violet don't live there, I bet he doesn't want anyone else to move out.

So I think he will find a way to keep Tom and his new love at the Abbey. As I said, my bet is Madeline Allsop. The second option would be Rose and the underdog could be Edith, but it would be a complete different story then.

Mary is out of the question. Julian Fellows has repeatedly said it, Allen Leech has said it, Michelle Dockery has said it. They're friends and Julian Fellows said he wouldn't want to change that.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Andorra

[PRgal]

I hope nothing tragic happens to Sybbie!

[Andorra]

I don't think so. We know the actress already who is cast to play her. An adorable little girl who is almost 5 years old.I think they deliberately picked a child who is a bit  too old for the beginning of the series this year, so they can use her for the whole season AND the CS. And maybe even next season, too.

Last year Ava, who played Sybbie, was only barely Sybbie's age and so they couldn't user her (or George) for the CS,

[DeepRunner]

I think it is better than even money that Branson and Bunting get together. Long term, maybe not, but I think they will at least spend some time a-courtin', so to speak. I would like to see Madeline Allsop back, although I think TPTB pretty well laid the groundwork for her and Harold to have some sort of (more than) Platonic relationship. 

 

I have been rooting for Evelyn Napier to have a good outcome (getting with Mary, his long, longed-for love interest), just as I have for Lady Edith. I am hopeful that S5 brings more in that direction.

 

On another front, I am curious to see what the new season brings for Anna and Bates. Misery has been the hallmark of their relationship. I would like Anna to have a secret she keeps (and has kept) from Bates, one that, if he found it out, would cause him some serious problems. Not infidelity, maybe, but something that would make more tough sledding for them. I think Bates would probably have told his darkest secrets to her, so that would not be a storyline to play. Really, there isn't a lot left for them to go through, other than the death of one of the spouses, unemployment, and children.

 

I also am interested in the interplay between Molesley and Thomas. I have wanted for the longest time for Thomas to be gobsmacked and taken down a few rungs. But at the end of S4 (and according to Interweb reports of the Downton Abbey panel this past weekend), there have been tidbits which point to a coming conflict between them. Molesley has needed character development from being the convenient running joke. But I am not sure whose side I would be on if there were conflict.

[SnarkySheep]

 

On another front, I am curious to see what the new season brings for Anna and Bates. Misery has been the hallmark of their relationship. I would like Anna to have a secret she keeps (and has kept) from Bates, one that, if he found it out, would cause him some serious problems. Not infidelity, maybe, but something that would make more tough sledding for them.

 

I don't think TPTB would go there; they've already taken a HUGE risk this past season with the rape, and the seasons before, dragging on and on with the prison storylines, trying to get a divorce, etc etc. If they keep throwing utter and abject misery at this couple, they will risk losing viewers.

 

Honestly, at this point I see nowhere else for them to go except, A, starting that B&B they originally spoke of (but isn't likely to happen because they'd have to leave the show) or B, having a baby (also not likely, because Anna is a main character and needs to be working). 

 

Perhaps the Bateses could adopt an older child? Don't forget, we're still living in an era where various illnesses are common. People die all the time of things like the flu. Maybe one of Anna's siblings leaves her a child, which they take in. That way, they could expand the Bates storylines, give them some happier stories for once, AND address the child issue without either having to work with another very young actor OR take Anna away from the main house (if the child was even five or six, s/he could already go to the village school and not need caring for).

[SnarkySheep]

Major character will not return for Season 6 --

 

http://www.showbiz411.com/2014/05/06/downton-abbey-major-character-will-not-appear-in-season-6

[DeepRunner]

I don't think TPTB would go there; they've already taken a HUGE risk this past season with the rape, and the seasons before, dragging on and on with the prison storylines, trying to get a divorce, etc etc. If they keep throwing utter and abject misery at this couple, they will risk losing viewers.

 

Honestly, at this point I see nowhere else for them to go except, A, starting that B&B they originally spoke of (but isn't likely to happen because they'd have to leave the show) or B, having a baby (also not likely, because Anna is a main character and needs to be working). 

 

Perhaps the Bateses could adopt an older child? Don't forget, we're still living in an era where various illnesses are common. People die all the time of things like the flu. Maybe one of Anna's siblings leaves her a child, which they take in. That way, they could expand the Bates storylines, give them some happier stories for once, AND address the child issue without either having to work with another very young actor OR take Anna away from the main house (if the child was even five or six, s/he could already go to the village school and not need caring for).

 

Maybe. Could work. I am just not sure that it would happen. Julian Fellowes has made it clear over time (to me, anyway), in his approach to Anna and Bates, that their lives seem meant to be spent in the crucible, with their lives together in the Abbey a crucifix.

 

FWIW, I have seen on the Interweb that

Siobhan Finneran would be open to returning to Downton Abbey for (maybe at least) an episode as Sarah O'Brien, maybe even to wreck the Bates's marriage. I would be glad to see O'Brien back, though not necessarily for that purpose. It would be TOO MUCH to character type, a dull cliche. Now, having her have a once-and-for-all battle with Barrow, that would be cool, like scorpions in a bottle.

[mbutterfly]

I think it is better than even money that Branson and Bunting get together. Long term, maybe not, but I think they will at least spend some time a-courtin', so to speak. I would like to see Madeline Allsop back, although I think TPTB pretty well laid the groundwork for her and Harold to have some sort of (more than) Platonic relationship. 

 

I have been rooting for Evelyn Napier to have a good outcome (getting with Mary, his long, longed-for love interest), just as I have for Lady Edith. I am hopeful that S5 brings more in that direction.

 

On another front, I am curious to see what the new season brings for Anna and Bates. Misery has been the hallmark of their relationship. I would like Anna to have a secret she keeps (and has kept) from Bates, one that, if he found it out, would cause him some serious problems. Not infidelity, maybe, but something that would make more tough sledding for them. I think Bates would probably have told his darkest secrets to her, so that would not be a storyline to play. Really, there isn't a lot left for them to go through, other than the death of one of the spouses, unemployment, and children.

 

I also am interested in the interplay between Molesley and Thomas. I have wanted for the longest time for Thomas to be gobsmacked and taken down a few rungs. But at the end of S4 (and according to Interweb reports of the Downton Abbey panel this past weekend), there have been tidbits which point to a coming conflict between them. Molesley has needed character development from being the convenient running joke. But I am not sure whose side I would be on if there were conflict.

I really like Anna and Bates, but I'm ready for a season where they do not suffer. I would like to see them be mature and helpful resources (coming from their own shared experiences)  in the midst of some upstairs drama -- really playing a role in significant intrigue but doing it together. 

[Kohola3]

Maybe Anna and Bates can take in Edith's kid instead of the pig farmer.  

[DeepRunner]

I saw something online (what looked like promotional photos referenced by a couple of different above-board DA fan sites that I trust) that appears to have been removed from the original site that posted the information. Among other things, they seemed associated with some of the stories from last season, moving into Season 5. Because it appears the information is no longer available on that site, I have edited my original post to remove the link to the original site, 

 

I will be interested to see how things play out in Season 5.

Edited June 22, 2014 by DeepRunner

[Dejajeva]

It's really too bad about Rose. I thought I could see her with Tom, not Madeline, though I liked Madeline very much. But, promoting Cinderella is quite a big deal for her I suppose.

 

Certainly not that horrible Sarah Bunting person.

 

Do we know if Gregson is officially dead or what? I miss him.

[Tetraneutron]

No spoilers, but I'm guessing Gregson is dead and the Nazis had something to do with it. If he's alive, he Edith and the baby can get married and live happily ever after and then there's no story. Maybe Edith will end up with the pig farmer. Except he already has kids. Oh well, the point in Edith is Downton's punching bag. Frank Grimes has better luck than she does.

 

I'm surprised at the people who think Madeleine Allsop will have a long-term relationship with Harold. Wasn't Paul Giamatti just brought in for the one episode? I can see her with Tom, but it's just more of the same.

 

New characters introduced in season 5 are the Dowager Countess's lady's maid, named Miss Denker. German name - it looks like Germany might be the focus of this season's How The World Is Changing anvil, although I can't think of a worse subject for a fun period soap than Germany post-WWI.

[ZoloftBlob]

Frank Grimes has better luck than she does.

 

Hell, *Rick Grimes* has better luck than she does. If Walking Dead was set in England, she'd be Rick's new girl.

[spottedreptile]

Season 5 trailer discussion on Zap2it:

 

http://www.zap2it.com/blogs/downton_abbey_season_5_trailer_lady_mary_wooed_charles_blake-2014-07

The trailer isn't linked in the article, and I can't find a version of it online yet. However, highlights are listed for you to pour over:

Anna wonders about going to place where no one knows her and Mr. Bates. Later, Mr. Bates promises her that nothing bad will happen to her and they'll grow old together, surrounded by their children.

-A bon mot from the Dowager Countess: "I warn you being tested does not bring out the best in me."

- Lady Edith is obviously heartsick over her daughter being with the tenant farmers, the Drews. Mr. Drew tells her to find a way to live with the truth without telling the truth.

- Lady Rose has a suitor (surprise, surprise).

-One of the wonderful exchanges between Lady Violet and cousin Isobel, in regards to Lord Merton: Isobel: "He wants something from me I cannot give," to which Violet says, "He wants what every man wants. ... Don't be ridiclous, I was referring to companionship. I hope you were."

- We will meet a man from Lady Violet's past. Woo woo.

- Charles Blake makes a great play for Lady Mary, referring to Tony Gillingham when he says, "Nothing would make me happier than seeing you happy, but please be absolutely sure before you decide. You're cleverer than he is. That might have worked in the last century, when ladies had to hide their brains behind good manners and good breeding, but not now."

- Tom continues to struggle with living in the aristocracy versus his more modest roots. But Sarah Bunting is still around and in fact gets invited to dinner at the estate.

 

 

If this is where they're going then I'm going to be very disappointed. It doesn't seem as if they've moved on at all. All the things I didn't like from S4, such as Sara Bunting, Mary's awfully boring suitor drama, and Edith, Anna and Bates still stuck in their current dilemmas. I'd have hoped that there would be at least a couple of years' time jump if not more, and something would have changed. 

 

The trouble is that Downton has no role any more. When it was a hospital things were interesting. Now it's still an old landed estate standing still when everything else is moving on. If they brought some change again to the house without just talking about it, then we might see some interesting story lines develop as a result. But it's still more of the same, so they have to invent silly stories and rehash characters to keep the whole thing going until I just wish a meteor would fall from the sky and obliterate the lot of them.*

 

*Tom excepted. 

Edited July 23, 2014 by spottedreptile

[Andorra]

As usual the things they spoil are no the things that are going to be endgame.

 

We already know that Sarah Bunting will disappear Mid-Season. They filmed a goodbye scene in April (Episode 3 or 4) and since May Daisy Lewis has been away from London in a new project. So Sarah Bunting is not endgame (thank God).

 

Also we know that Julian Ovenden has been unabel to film for Downton during the past weeks, since he was in rehearsals for a new play every day. So it looks as if Charles Blake can't be in Episode 7,8 and maybe not in the CS. If he will be in the CS, then only shortly, because his play premieres on July 31st and they only do 2 weeks filming of Downton after that.

 

So these two storylines look typical to me: Spoil something and make it appear as if it is the thing that is going to happen and then change everything Mid-Season  and turn things completely around. So my bet is: Sarah Bunting will disappear, but she will be the trigger for Tom to look for romance. And Blake might appear to have the upper hand in the race for Mary's hand at the beginning of the series, but in the end he will leave heartbroken.

 

I think Isobel will marry Lord Merton. Both his sons will appear in series 5 and someone said she played a wedding guest in Episode 2. I also think this might be what "saddened" Allen Leech when he talked about Episode 1. He has repeatedly said that Tom/Isobel is one of the relationships he loves the most in the show. So it would be sad for Tom and for Allen if PW left or if she would cut down her filming for the show. It would also confirm the theory that they spoil the things that won't happen: Therefor the scene where Isobel says she can't give Lord Merton what he wants. I bet she will find she can after all.

 

Rose has a new suitor. And since it is said that Lily James will leave the show, we can predict where that leads. Especially if her father, sister and brother-in-law are expected in 5.08. I think we'll have a wedding in the series final.

[NotBothered]

Well there was also a lot of talk about the clips making it look like Mary was choosing Tony and discussion that Mary was making impulsive choices (in the vein of season 1 Mary), so I think the triangle is still wide open.   Also, we haven't seen much of Gillingham or Blake filming (since very very early on), so who knows what's going on.   We could see her pick Tony, only to have Blake pop back into the picture at the end of the CS.  I actually really do not like Tony, so I will be peeved if we're stuck with him. 

 

Also, judging by some comments that have been made about how difficult it was to write for Mary once the angst was over, I am expecting no resolution to her romantic problems at the end of the season. 

[Carrie Ann]

I just think one of the problems with the Mary story is that it's not going to have a satisfying conclusion unless she pulls a Kelly Taylor and Chooses Herself, or they wipe out all these dudes and find someone new (or hook her up with Tom, which is still the only avenue for either of them that interests me) (but I know that's not popular and I know JF hates it so I don't actually hold out any hope for it).

 

Otherwise, these options all pale in comparison to Matthew. I'm sure not everyone was enamored with him or their story, but it was certainly more compelling than this. And for Mary to be so ambivalent about these guys just indicates to me that she's not actually that into any of them. So if she did end up choosing one, it would just feel like settling, and that would be disappointing.

 

I don't know. I let the S4 eps pile up on the DVR for almost six months before I finally finished that season, and so far there's nothing about S5 that's making me excited. I think this might be where I step off the train.

[ZoloftBlob]

Otherwise, these options all pale in comparison to Matthew.

 

And thats the crux of the problem, really. Mary and Matthew are, or were, the focus of the show. Mary with Matthew transforms into someone actually likeable. Mary without Matthew reverts to being the calculating bitch with the hardened heart. She needs to be madly in love with whoever she marries, and if she's not, she's going to treat it like a business transaction. Thats why I'd prefer Blake. She has a spark with him, whereas Tony is merely a plaything.

[Andorra]

I hated Blake, but I don't care whom Mary marries, so if she choses Blake I will just coontinue to hate him and feel sorry for her to be in a marriage with such an arrogant prick. I'm quite allergic to men who think they know everything and are oh so smart. His sentence to Mary shows his whole character. Insufferable, urgh.

 

Luckily Mary is not a very important character for my enjoyment of the show. In my list of favourites she's somewhere in the middle, so Fellows can do with her what he wants.

 

I'm far more interested in Tom's storyline and really was worried for a while about that awful teacher. But luckily the actress is busy filming another show since May and away from London for months now. Never heard better news!

 

So we know she is not going to be endgame and that is all that matters to me. I hope they'll give him a nice romantic storyline with someone else though. Hopefully Madeline Allsop. I loved her! And I really don't know who else could be in the books for him. They ruled out marriage between the in-laws yesterday and Lily James is going to leave after this series. So  it won't be Mary, Edith or Rose. It also won't be Sarah Bunting. So to me the only woman that would make sense would be Madeline Allsop. Or someone completely new who has been hidden so far.

[TVFAN]

So, Sarah Bunting will be gone???????  Really????????  That is the best news I've heard in ages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

 

Sybil and Tom were my favorite couple.  (They should have had so many more scenes together!)   I just could not stand the thought of that rude, pushy, snob trying to step into Sybil's shoes.  

 

Now, Madeline is another matter.  She showed more heart in one episode than that Bunting creature showed in a whole season.  Go, Tom and Madeline!

[Andorra]

@TVFAN

yes, it sure looks like it. They filmed a goodbye scene between Tom and Sarah in April, so it looks she will leave in Episode 3 or 4. Also Daisy Lewis is in a new show called "sons of Liberty" and has been filming in Romania and LA for the last months.

So it all adds up to Sarah Bunting not staying beyond Midseason and certainly NOT being Tom's endgame love interest.

 

Even more interesting: Poppy Drayton has been very quiet about her work on twitter, but a lot of things suggest that she might be in series 5. She was up and about early on the day of the reading for Episode 3 and 4 and she started following Chris Croucher (the assistant DA on Downton) the same day and he followed back! then she left for a few weeks to LA, but came back just in time when the filming of Episode 3 and 4 of Downton started.

Her whole schedule since then has been perfect for Downton. She stayed in London most of the time an if she left, it was just for short periods of time and always when there was a break in filming for the upstairs cast of Downton.

AND she has started to follow various Downton Abbey actors and actresses in the last months. For example she started following Tom Cullen on a day that it was known that Downton was filming at Highclere and he followed back the same day.

 

So if these are not just weird coincidences, it looks very good for Madeline Allsop to return for series 5 and I can't find a better reason than her being the new love interest for Tom.

[Cameltoes]

The trouble is that Downton has no role any more. When it was a hospital things were interesting. Now it's still an old landed estate standing still when everything else is moving on. If they brought some change again to the house without just talking about it, then we might see some interesting story lines develop as a result. But it's still more of the same, so they have to invent silly stories and rehash characters to keep the whole thing going until I just wish a meteor would fall from the sky and obliterate the lot of them.*

 

*Tom excepted. 

 

I think a lot of the problem is that they are trying so hard to keep everyone at Downton when, in reality, I think the younger characters would move away. I'd much rather see Mary and Edith living in London. Mary once commented on how nice it would be to be rich widow like her aunt and I think Matthew's death and her inheritance would have prompted her to strike out and see what else is out there - what new opportunities were available with a less shackled existence. Finding a Matthew replacement and keeping her life pretty much status quo rings false for me. Edith should be living it up in London, instead she's been saddled with another storyline that imprisons her in Downton. The non-marriage was just another excuse to avoid what should be inevitable - the younger generation spreading their wings.

 

I do agree that Downton should be more useful. When Lord Gillingham said that they never turned their estate back into a family home (I think it was a girl's school or something), it made Downtown seem really.... out of touch. Maybe if they let characters leave, it would create the impetus for the family to change the Abbey.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Cameltoes

[ZulaMay]

They said Paul Giamatti is not in S5.  So if Andorra's sleuthing is correct (as I suspect it is), Poppy Drayton will return as Madeline for another purpose.  Hopefully Tom.  She was established as pretty ideal for him IMO.

 

Mary's Men is a tedious storyline, although sometimes amusing.  I find the suitors' Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee act more entertaining than their interactions with her.  Matthew brought her to life and softened her (at least in S2, she got pretty bitchy again in S3). These guys?  She doesn't shine in their reflected light.

 

A lot of people didn't give Dan credit for establishing their dynamic and creating chemistry with her.  Now that he's gone I think it's clear he had a lot to do with it and was under-appreciated as an actor.

 

I agree they keep rehashing the same storylines, with moderate twists. If Bates is under suspicion again?  That will be what, the fourth time?  Mary chooses one guy or lets one go, then pines after whoever she no longer has.  Tom ponders his new life and identity.  Ugh.

 

Well, what matters most to me is it's Bye-Bye Bunting in 5.03 or 5.04.  Thank God.

[NotBothered]

We have some some bits in the fall ITV trailer. Looks like they are at least hinting at a Cora affair.  And I'm also guessing we'll see Edith's child in some sort of peril.

[ZulaMay]

Do you think that's her running down the street?  I thought it could be.

 

Also the shot of the redheaded woman looking concerned, right after the one with Thomas grabbing Baxter?  Looks a bit like the actress playing Margie Drewe.  And that looks like clothing a farm wife might wear?

[NotBothered]

Also the shot of the redheaded woman looking concerned, right after the one with Thomas grabbing Baxter?  Looks a bit like the actress playing Margie Drewe.  And that looks like clothing a farm wife might wear?

At :19?  That's Rose Leslie, and her IMDB page lists her as being in Great Fire.  I would not be opposed to seeing Gwen again (I miss the sassy housemaids), but I don't think it's going to happen.

Edited July 25, 2014 by NotBothered

[ZulaMay]

Hmmm.  Well Rose is a redhead.  Didn't look like her to me but I'll have to check again.

[DeepRunner]

We have some some bits in the fall ITV trailer. Looks like they are at least hinting at a Cora affair.  And I'm also guessing we'll see Edith's child in some sort of peril.

 

ITV trailers are good stuff. Yep, it seems to pretty strongly imply that Cora and the Richard Grant character will have more than cordial relations; just don't make it the reverse of Robert and Jane. Looks like Lady Anstruther is getting her hooks into Jimmy Kent.

 

I don't think the redhead is Gwen.

[photo fox]

Is that Tom on the rope swing?  Or a character from a different show?

[NotBothered]

I don't think the redhead is Gwen.

You don't think it's Gwen or you don't think it's Rose Leslie?  Not to harp,  but it is definitely Rose Leslie and definitely not Gwen.  She is listed as being in one of the shows they are promoting.  

 

I don't think that is Tom on the rope swing.  The skirt on the girl there is all wrong for the 20s.  It is too short and too a-line.  I think it is from something set in the 40s.

[photo fox]

I thought the same thing about the skirt. I guess I was just hoping it was Tom because it looks like such a happy scene, and he deserves some happy.

[DeepRunner]

You don't think it's Gwen or you don't think it's Rose Leslie?  Not to harp,  but it is definitely Rose Leslie and definitely not Gwen.  She is listed as being in one of the shows they are promoting.  

 

I don't think that is Tom on the rope swing.  The skirt on the girl there is all wrong for the 20s.  It is too short and too a-line.  I think it is from something set in the 40s.

 

I don't think it is Rose Leslie. And the guy on the swing sorta looks like Andrew Buchan from "Broadchurch" and "Cranford".

[abbyzenn]

I don't get the love for Madeline.  Maybe because I found it such a boring storyline and a waste of Downton time (like could have been used on some of the regular cast) I just wasn't impressed with her.  I don't see where she'd be great for Tom.  I want to see him with an independent woman - someone with a job or profession (like book store owner, writer, painter,) involved in politics and/or women's rights, someone with some life experience.  Madeline seems too young for him and other than being "sweet" we didn't learn much about her. She seemed too much like Rose who I find a complete waste of space.  I think Bunting is awful and will be glad to see her gone.

[ZulaMay]

NotBothered, you are right.  That is Rose Leslie.  On second glance I saw it right away.  Sorry.

 

abbyzenn, personally I loved Madeline because of how she interacted with Harold.  I love PG and think he did a great job with this threadbare character that JF wrote.  It was her sincere, sweet but direct way of handling him that endeared her to me.  I think she is more mature and grounded than Rose is.  We would never have seen Rose dancing with Harold even after he'd "escaped her net."  Madeline really seemed to enjoy his company and could hold her own with a much older, clever, worldly man.  That impressed me.

 

I would prefer Tom with the type of woman you mentioned, of course.  Not Bunting.  But Madeline has time to grow in that direction.  She's not really too young for him, by the standards of the day.  Maybe twelve years?  If she could click with Harold, she could click with Tom.  I think she has potential.

 

The actress who played her is about 23.  And girls might make their debut at any age from 17-21 or so.  Perhaps the war tended to delay it.  By S5 she'll be 22 or so and Tom maybe 33-34?  If she were like Rose I'd say she is way too young.  But she is much more womanly than Rose is.

Edited July 28, 2014 by ZulaMay

[DeepRunner]

 

NotBothered, you are right.  That is Rose Leslie.  On second glance I saw it right away.  Sorry.

 

I decided to look-up the show that Rose Leslie is on and yes, it is her (not that you all needed my concurrence ;-) ). Here is a trailer for The Great Fire of London:

 

http://www.digitalspy.com/british-tv/news/a580167/itvs-the-great-fire-londons-burning-in-quick-fire-promo-watch.html#~oLgty98zdcXw5P