S43.E08: Proposterous

[Lantern7]

Here is Erik's take:

Seriously, how can an alliance of seven work at this point? Feels unrealistic. I'm sure it makes sense, but that would involve caring . . . and I can't muster that for this series.

[LadyChatts]

Is that supposed to be Dwight in the background?

This is probably one of my favorite cartoons of Erik's.  Cody and Ryan seeming oblivious to everything around them sums up their game right now for me.  If the 7 stays intact (which I'm hoping not) I hope it gets messy when they have to eat their own.  Even if it's a boring Coco 4 takes out Sami, Jesse, and Cody, I hope it's ugly and those 3 realize their mistake.

[choclatechip45]

This episode was boring!

[bankerchick]

22 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Seriously, how can an alliance of seven work at this point? Feels unrealistic.

I know, right?  Final seven??!!  Do they think 7 people go to the finals?  And what an arbitrary number.  Why not Final 6 or Final 8?  It's not like they are really that close and do everything together.

[blackwing]

Like others, I am finding this season boring.  There's nobody I'm really invested in besides Cody and Karla.  I dislike James and his paranoia/Godfather attitude.  I dislike Gabler.  I dislike Sami.  The rest are just extraneous.

On 11/10/2022 at 9:56 AM, seacliffsal said:

As to whether or not Jesse can use Jeannine's Dwight's his idol, when the person who holds the KIP advantage asks someone if they have one of the items listed, they have to honestly answer yes/no (Jeff has said they have to be honest).  So, if James had asked Jeannine and she answered no because she gave it to Dwight, then she would have given up her rights to the idol in order to be able to answer no.  Otherwise, it would be "yes, but someone else is holding it..."  Therefore, I think she gave ownership of her idol to Dwight (who would most likely have given it back to her later), who then gave it to Jesse.  So, IMO it is now Jesse's idol.  Wasn't there concern when this plan was developed last season (handing ownership to someone else in order to avoid the KIP) that the secondary holder would not give it back?  We shall see...

On 11/10/2022 at 11:47 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

I don't know if there's that sort of formal legal structure behind the Knowledge Is Power advantage. The first time it was unveiled, Liana tried to use it to get the idol she knew Xander had. But Xander knew about Liana's advantage and was able to give his idol to Tiffany for safekeeping. Tiffany gave it back to him.  A similar thing happened last season

Now could either of the new owners have said, "Finders keepers, losers weepers" and not returned it? We don't really know if the rules of Survivor would have allowed for it, but probably. One thing is for sure: it would make a massive enemy out of the original owner and the consequences would almost certainly not be worth trying to pull off that level of double-cross.

On 11/12/2022 at 3:50 PM, LadyChatts said:

I think what confused me about the idol is that Jeanine gave it to Dwight for safe keeping (not to keep and use) and then he turned around and gave it to Jesse without Jeanine's permission (and I can't figure out why he didn't tell her).  So while stealing someone's idol outright isn't allowed, as we've been told, I feel like this is a gray area the show maybe never thought about.  I wonder if there will be new rules about idol possession and use after this season.  

To me it seems pretty clear that the idol is now Jesse's.  As we saw with Xander/Liana, she asked him if he had an idol, and he said "no", because he had given it to Tiffany for safekeeping.  Tiffany gave it back to him.

It seems there's no "I'm not giving this to you, I'm only having you hold it" gray area.  The holder of the idol is the owner, regardless of whether there was any agreement or not about whether they were just holding it temporarily.

Shan gave Rickard her advantage to hold.  And then he was going to keep it for himself.  If there truly had been some kind of "temporary" rule then production would have told him he had to give it back.

On 11/10/2022 at 11:18 AM, iMonrey said:

What we get instead is a weekly spotlight on a particular player, this week it was Owen and his backstory about being adopted and not fitting in. I guess that helps us get to know Owen but it doesn't really explain the intertribal dynamics you're talking about.

I don't particularly care for Owen, but it was sad to see him to admit on national TV that he was a self-loathing Asian that was ashamed and embarrassed of being Asian when he was growing up.  He did say he started to try and learn Korean during the pandemic, so maybe his feelings have changed.

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 11/11/2022 at 12:33 PM, HurricaneVal said:

I suspect Jeanine knew that would only buy her enough time to get to be voted out at the next tribal council.  Sure, she could win immunity, or maybe find another idol, and prolong her stay.  But it would be a miserable stay, James would make sure of that.

If Jeanine were to SITD successfully, it potentially changes the game. It's then possible/probable that some of the Seven flip and eat their own earlier. Or they could miscalculate and think that the eventual jury would not vote for non-Seven. In any case, there wasn't anything to lose.

On 11/11/2022 at 2:03 PM, Cotypubby said:

I can't see how or why it wouldn't be. 🤷‍♀️ That's the chance you take when you give your idol to someone. No one can take it from you without your permission, but if you give it away of your own free will, that person can do with it as they see fit. Haven't there been many times where someone was convinced to give their idol to someone to "hold on to for safekeeping" and then immediately turned around and voted that person out?

In real-world law, someone who owns a piece of property can give or sell it to someone with conditions, and if they violate those conditions, the owner can get them in trouble for doing so.

So hypothetically, if an idol holder gives something to someone with the express requirement that it be returned after Tribal Council, used only in Situation X (or whatever), that arguably could make the transfer of the idol invalid if the person who gets it doesn't return it, uses it for some other purpose, etc.

As far as I know, the full rules of Survivor are not published anywhere, and Jeff and contestants have talked about them in only broad terms. It has been publicly said that you can't simply steal someone else's idol by going through their stuff, for example. But there has not been as far as I have heard anything that definitively establishes that a person is obligated to keep a promise as to what to do with an idol after being given it. Since much of the game is about deceiving people and since someone trying to pull such a backstab off would be more interesting television than not, I would imagine that there is no rule stopping an idol recipient from doing whatever. But again, the payback that would assuredly come would probably make such a move not worth it. (i.e. someone who promised to return an idol and reneged would be put on blast and it would probably be a rare set of survivors that would let such an untrustworthy person get to the end, and moreover, a rarer jury that would vote for such a person to get a million). 

On 11/12/2022 at 2:07 PM, bankerchick said:

I'll be the first to admit that once a season is over, I pretty much forget everything that happened, often including who won.  Except for perhaps the Edgardo boot.  I'll never forget that😄. 

Just thinking of the Edgardo boot puts a smile on my face. I feel almost compelled to re-share:

2 hours ago, bankerchick said:

I know, right?  Final seven??!!  Do they think 7 people go to the finals?  And what an arbitrary number.  Why not Final 6 or Final 8?  It's not like they are really that close and do everything together.

I am not a Survivor historian, but I would imagine at no time did a seven-person alliance not crack. There's too much incentive to defect.

[blackwing]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

If Jeanine were to SITD successfully, it potentially changes the game. It's then possible/probable that some of the Seven flip and eat their own earlier. Or they could miscalculate and think that the eventual jury would not vote for non-Seven. In any case, there wasn't anything to lose.

Agreed, not sure why she didn't talk about using it.  If she was successful, she doesn't get a vote, but Cassidy's vote would have sent Ryan home.  The fact that Cassidy voted with Jeanine showed that she was with her.  Then next round, could have had Jeanine, Cassidy, Noelle, Gabler, Owen voting together.  It would be 5 v 5 and if they could get Sami with them, they could get somebody like Jesse or James out.

She knew she was almost certainly going home, so why not try the SITD?

I think the show needs to increase the odds on the SITD if they want more people to try using it.  I'd do one in four.

Edited November 14, 2022 by blackwing

[peachmangosteen]

I assume Jeanine didn't use SITD because she believed Sami and co. were with her and voting out Ryan. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I assume Jeanine didn't use SITD because she believed Sami and co. were with her and voting out Ryan. 

I feel like Sami should change his name to Lucy.

[awaken]

Jeanine mentioned in an interview that she didn’t use the sitd because she felt it would make her look desperate and untrustworthy 🤷🏽
 

im not sure that Cassidy was with Jeanine as much as she was against Ryan, and against voting out another woman. 

[Scatterbrained]

I thought that the one interesting thing this episode occurred during tribal.  Jeff asked a question about the game (something like how do you think it’s going to go from here) and several people answered his question.  Each person who answered answered according to their own game strategy.  They basically all outed themselves a la falling coconuts.  It will be interesting to see if anyone picked up on that and whether or not it will have an impact on the game as a it unfolds.