Season 5: History Beyond the Episodes

[jeansheridan]

Roseanna thanks for the links. I was struck by this: "The ship evacuated over 1,000 refugees from the civil war in Aden in 1986." 

I can see how for a island country that made its reputation for good and bad based on ships and naval power, Britannica had special meaning. I don't think about Airforce One all that much but it does stand as a symbol for the US President. But of course he's a political leader more than a cultural/historical leader. The Royal Family is kind of living history.

[Razzberry]

I was hoping to hear more about Fergie and her psychic Madame Vasso.  In Patrick Jephson's book he mentions that Madame Vasso made a few negative predictions about Charles.  From the vague "he would have a terrible week" or something, to more specific  things, like he would die and never be King, and Diana believed it all.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/fergie-upstages-blair-s-week-in-the-sun-1.91963

Edited December 2, 2022 by Razzberry

[Razzberry]

Can't remember which episode it was, but when Phillip ridiculed Charles about "unearned" medals did he forget that Anne has never served a day in the military and it hasn't stopped her from wearing the costume.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, Razzberry said:

Can't remember which episode it was, but when Phillip ridiculed Charles about "unearned" medals did he forget that Anne has never served a day in the military and it hasn't stopped her from wearing the costume.

Anne has done more to earn her uniform than Charles and Edward.  She has always put the work in working royal.  

[Razzberry]

15 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Anne has done more to earn her uniform than Charles and Edward.  She has always put the work in working royal. 

Yes, I know she's the hardest working and doesn't do it for publicity or press coverage, but that has nothing to do with military medals.

[Ohiopirate02]

6 minutes ago, Razzberry said:

Yes, I know she's the hardest working and doesn't do it for publicity or press coverage, but that has nothing to do with military medals.

An explainer on Anne's medals

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/celebs-tv/princess-annes-medals-uniform-explained-7602126?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

[Roseanna]

This show descibes the Queen as unable and unwilling to show Diana any empathy or support. In his book The Queen - Her life Andrew Morton tells another kind of story: even during the time Diana and Charles were separated, Elizabeth listened to her daughter-in-law's grievances as well as made sure that there was time in her busy schelude so that Diana could take her sons to the tea. 

Morton loans the Queen's Private Secretary Patrick Johnson who tells that Diana used these meeting to assure her loyalty and said that she didn't want to cause any more harm to the Crown and the heir, Charles. Elizabeth and Johnson weren't convinced  - which is quite understandable because Diana had lied by assuring that she hadn't cooperated with Morton when he had published his tell-all-book about her. And as the Panoma interview showed, their suspicions were right.

Diana seems to have been very naive when she believed that the Queen could get Charles to end his relationship with Camilla. Has any mother such a power over her grown-up son? The Queen and the Queen Mother had made sure that they didn't accept the relationship by refusing to invite Camilla to any royal occasion.

[andromeda331]

21 hours ago, Roseanna said:

This show descibes the Queen as unable and unwilling to show Diana any empathy or support. In his book The Queen - Her life Andrew Morton tells another kind of story: even during the time Diana and Charles were separated, Elizabeth listened to her daughter-in-law's grievances as well as made sure that there was time in her busy schelude so that Diana could take her sons to the tea. 

Morton loans the Queen's Private Secretary Patrick Johnson who tells that Diana used these meeting to assure her loyalty and said that she didn't want to cause any more harm to the Crown and the heir, Charles. Elizabeth and Johnson weren't convinced  - which is quite understandable because Diana had lied by assuring that she hadn't cooperated with Morton when he had published his tell-all-book about her. And as the Panoma interview showed, their suspicions were right.

Diana seems to have been very naive when she believed that the Queen could get Charles to end his relationship with Camilla. Has any mother such a power over her grown-up son? The Queen and the Queen Mother had made sure that they didn't accept the relationship by refusing to invite Camilla to any royal occasion.

Didn't the Queen Mother let Charles and Camille have their affair her estate?

[Roseanna]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

Didn't the Queen Mother let Charles and Camille have their affair her estate?

I have never heard that. Charles and Camilla had enough friends who had estates nearby and were willing to inivite them to the weekend parties.

If you mean Birkhall on the Balmoral estate where his grandmother lived when on holiday as the Duchess of York again as the Queen Mother, Charles inherited it after her death in 2002.

 

 

[andromeda331]

21 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I have never heard that. Charles and Camilla had enough friends who had estates nearby and were willing to inivite them to the weekend parties.

If you mean Birkhall on the Balmoral estate where his grandmother lived when on holiday as the Duchess of York again as the Queen Mother, Charles inherited it after her death in 2002.

 

 

I've read it was one of her Scottish estates. I don't if it was Birkhall or Castle of Mey. 

[Notabug]

On 1/21/2023 at 4:02 AM, Roseanna said:

I have never heard that. Charles and Camilla had enough friends who had estates nearby and were willing to inivite them to the weekend parties.

If you mean Birkhall on the Balmoral estate where his grandmother lived when on holiday as the Duchess of York again as the Queen Mother, Charles inherited it after her death in 2002.

 

 

It has been reported that the Queen Mother privately supported Charles and Camilla's affair and did indeed allow them to use Birkhall for their meetings.  Apparently, her major reason for allowing it was because, having lived through the scandal of Edward and Wallis Simpson, the Queen Mum didn't want the relationship to become public and another scandal blow up.

 

https://www.ibtimes.com/prince-charles-camilla-affair-predicted-princess-margaret-queen-mother-supported-2920765#:~:text=But in the documentary “The Royal House of,Scottish home and use it as their bolthole.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Notabug

[Scarlett45]

I read on Wikipedia that Sydney Johnson had four children. (I assume they still live in France) I wonder if any of them have any diaries or anything about their father’s time as valet to the Duke of Windsor. I also would be interested in how Sydney felt about leaving the Bahamas, was learning French easy for him? Did he feel at home there? Seems he led such an interesting life. 

[Lorna Mae]

Apologies if this is not the right thread, but: I'm curious about the movie Diana, with Naomi Watts and Naveen Andrews. It seems to be very disliked. Why? Inaccurate, or just badly told? 

[GATenn]

I wish they had focused a little on Diana's fraught relationship with her parents and how it was a factor in some of her extreme behavior. For example, she pushed her stepmother Raine Legge (aka Rain Legs) down the stairs. Or that she either threw herself/tipped herself/accidently fell down a flight of stairs while pregnant with William. Her story about that changed depended on who she was talking to.

She was a caring and generous person, but severely mentally ill, and pushing an old lady down the stairs wasn't one of her high points. 

Then again, Rain Legs installed wall-to-wall carpeting in their castle over the hardwoods, and while that doesn't warrant being pushed down a flight of stairs, it's pretty unforgivable.

Diana hated her (her nickname for her was Acid Raine), and didn't even want her at her wedding. She compromised by seating her behind a column so she couldn't see her. 

When Diana's father died, she and her brother literally ordered Rain Legs out the next day. When she started packing, they realized the suitcases/trunks belonged to their father, so they made her put her shit in trash bags, threw them down the stairs, and kicked her the fuck out. It's like rich people Jerry Springer. 

 

Edited October 30 by GATenn

[MadyGirl1987]

6 hours ago, GATenn said:

I wish they had focused a little on Diana's fraught relationship with her parents and how it was a factor in some of her extreme behavior. For example, she pushed her stepmother Raine Legge (aka Rain Legs) down the stairs. Or that she either threw herself/tipped herself/accidently fell down a flight of stairs while pregnant with William. Her story about that changed depended on who she was talking to.

She was a caring and generous person, but severely mentally ill, and pushing an old lady down the stairs wasn't one of her high points. 

Then again, Rain Legs installed wall-to-wall carpeting in their castle over the hardwoods, and while that doesn't warrant being pushed down a flight of stairs, it's pretty unforgivable.

Diana hated her (her nickname for her was Acid Raine), and didn't even want her at her wedding. She compromised by seating her behind a column so she couldn't see her. 

When Diana's father died, she and her brother literally ordered Rain Legs out the next day. When she started packing, they realized the suitcases/trunks belonged to their father, so they made her put her shit in trash bags, threw them down the stairs, and kicked her the fuck out. It's like rich people Jerry Springer. 

 

I love that comparison, since it is like some trash tv talk show. I would also say it's like real life Dallas.

I, to, wish they would have unpacked the family dynamics that made Diana because I do feel like seeing that would have fleshed out how she was portrayed. I always hate how Diana is portrayed as some saint-like person. She did a lot of good but she was also a deeply flawed woman with mental health struggles who could get angry and petty and used the press to make herself look good and shape her public image without considering how a public nasty divorce would affect her sons. Showing that aspect of her and her family life which developed her personality would have made for more interesting TV then the perfect saintly portrayal most go for.