S01.E10: The Black Queen

[Meredith Quill]

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Episode Synopsis:

While mourning a tragic loss, Rhaenyra tries to hold the realm together, and Daemon prepares for war.

Reminder: 

There is open air book talk here. If you are just watching the TV show and you don't want to stumble into any book talk you should leave now. Book Talk assumes you have read any of the related books to date. 

[Oscirus]

So basically everything from Blood and cheese to every other bad thing that happens in the story is going to be daemon's blood lust?

How could they fuck up that Storms end story so bad.  They went from building aemond up to be a proper daemon opponent to just making him look like an incompetent dumbass. 

Dont get me started on the fact that they took out boras egging him on.

[Meredith Quill]

Aemond not being completely responsible for killing Lucerys is yet another example of why arguing X, Y or Z character is being whitewashed/blackened is a total waste of energy imo. As of the end of season 1 it seems they want to make almost everyone varying shades of grey. Imma go with the flow and let what will be will be; either that or gnash my teeth while banging my head on the wall. I prefer option 1.

[Oscirus]

The problem is that aemonds supposed to be the final boss. Like team green is almost entirely made up of Daeron and Aemond and the only other bad ass moment that Aemond has left is against rhaenys, if they cant even do this storyline properly, I dont imag they're going to be able to do that fight any justice

[mac123x]

They are leaning a bit on the "women peaceful, men warmongers" angle again.  Last week Alicent wanted to try the peaceful route; this week Rhaenys tells her husband that Rhaenyra is the only one keeping the men around her from going to war.  At least until she turned around on that last shot and looked murderous.  

I thought it was odd that Aemond didn't intend to kill Luke, since I couldn't figure out what he WAS trying to do.  "I drove my truck repeatedly at the guy on the bicycle, almost ran him off the road and into a lamppost several times, but I didn't mean actually to kill him".  

[SeanC]

2 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

The problem is that aemonds supposed to be the final boss. Like team green is almost entirely made up of Daeron and Aemond and the only other bad ass moment that Aemond has left is against rhaenys, if they cant even do this storyline properly, I dont imag they're going to be able to do that fight any justice

I don't see the problem. They've got at least two seasons, probably, before Aemond dies. They can build him up as a villain over then.

I like the change, as a whole, because it makes Aemond smarter (he knows that killing Lucerys is a dumb move) and gives him somewhere to go rather than being a complete psycho from the beginning.

[Oscirus]

Also rhaenyra snatching the maester's chains>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> snatching ottos hand pin which was just an annoyance for him

[ybrik]

6 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Also rhaenyra snatching the maester's chains>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> snatching ottos hand pin which was just an annoyance for him

Maybe in the book but on the show it wouldn’t mean anything since the maester is of no value while Otto is. Plus I always took this as part of the maester trying to get sympathy for himself and make himself look better. 

Don’t have an issue with the Aemond not killing Luke on purpose. Let’s be honest, what is he supposed to tell his side that it was an accident and he lost control of his dragon. He will probably be like Jamie in that he will not give the real reason it happened. Then with how the Blacks answer it will push him to become the person he ends up being in the book. His anger for what Daemon and the Blacks do in response plus his own guilt will push him to do great and terrible things. 

[Cristofle]

40 minutes ago, mac123x said:

I thought it was odd that Aemond didn't intend to kill Luke, since I couldn't figure out what he WAS trying to do.  "I drove my truck repeatedly at the guy on the bicycle, almost ran him off the road and into a lamppost several times, but I didn't mean actually to kill him".  

Yeah, I find his "OMG, I didn't mean for THAT to happen" reaction to be a little baffling. It was almost guaranteed that Luke would die in that mess. Aemond did not come out of that sequence looking smarter, lol. 

[magdalene]

What did people think of the writers sinking the Daemon/Rhaenyra soap opera romance/super couple thing in this episode instead of doing it next season? I guess the band aid had to be ripped off at some point.

I have become convinced this episode that Daemon will be solely responsible for the whole Blood and Cheese. She needs the killer by her side to have any chance in the war but the writers don't want her sullied by him.

By the way Joe Magician's live stream on you tube has the best take IMO on why Daemon choked her.

[Oscirus]

16 minutes ago, magdalene said:

What did people think of the writers sinking the Daemon/Rhaenyra soap opera romance/super couple thing in this episode instead of doing it next season? I guess the band aid had to be ripped off at some point.

I have become convinced this episode that Daemon will be solely responsible for the whole Blood and Cheese. She needs the killer by her side to have any chance in the war but the writers don't want her sullied by him.

By the way Joe Magician's live stream on you tube has the best take IMO on why Daemon choked her.

Made sense, Daemons always been about respect, rhaenyra maturing from her wilder self is probs a bit of a turn off for him.  I imagine Ottos head wouldve been on a pike if rhaenyra wasnt there.

[RobertDeSneero]

1 hour ago, magdalene said:

I have become convinced this episode that Daemon will be solely responsible for the whole Blood and Cheese.

I hope the look on Rhaenyra's face at the end means that she ends up being responsible.  I feel like that would be the better story.

[Cristofle]

7 hours ago, magdalene said:

What did people think of the writers sinking the Daemon/Rhaenyra soap opera romance/super couple thing in this episode instead of doing it next season? I guess the band aid had to be ripped off at some point.

Honestly? I don't think it will. I don't think this will make a sizable dent in their fandom, alas. I've seen people completely dismiss worse in the name of a ship. I think those of us who never thought this was a true love fairytale aren't surprised because this is who Daemon is, and those who love them will either ignore it or decry it as poor writing. And onscreen, I'm honestly not sure this will create a fundamental shift in their relationship. Rhaenyra didn't seem THAT surprised - whatever else we've seen go down between them, Rhaenyra is rarely shocked by Daemon and often calls his bluff, so I think she knows the ugliness in him. 

It's a toss-up on how involved Rhaenyra will be in Blood and Cheese, but going by the look on her face in the end, I think she's about to come a lot closer to embracing Daemon's way of thinking, so I lean towards her being more in the loop than not. It COULD still go the other way though - it'll be interesting to see. The other factor there is that Mysaria now has her own beef with the Greens. 

[ybrik]

1 hour ago, Cristofle said:

Honestly? I don't think it will. I don't think this will make a sizable dent in their fandom, alas. I've seen people completely dismiss worse in the name of a ship. I think those of us who never thought this was a true love fairytale aren't surprised because this is who Daemon is, and those who love them will either ignore it or decry it as poor writing. And onscreen, I'm honestly not sure this will create a fundamental shift in their relationship. Rhaenyra didn't seem THAT surprised - whatever else we've seen go down between them, Rhaenyra is rarely shocked by Daemon and often calls his bluff, so I think she knows the ugliness in him. 

It's a toss-up on how involved Rhaenyra will be in Blood and Cheese, but going by the look on her face in the end, I think she's about to come a lot closer to embracing Daemon's way of thinking, so I lean towards her being more in the loop than not. It COULD still go the other way though - it'll be interesting to see. The other factor there is that Mysaria now has her own beef with the Greens. 

Had the same thought after the last episode. I wonder if we see Daemon and/or Rhaenyra wanted a different target like Aegon or Aemond but Mysaria just wanted any one or something more specific in line with what happens in the book. 

[The Kings Foot]

8 hours ago, magdalene said:

What did people think of the writers sinking the Daemon/Rhaenyra soap opera romance/super couple thing in this episode instead of doing it next season? I guess the band aid had to be ripped off at some point.

Oh hardly.  Never under estimate the  attractiveness of violent men.  Take a look at the Joker in Suicide Squad  .

1 hour ago, Cristofle said:

Honestly? I don't think it will. I don't think this will make a sizable dent in their fandom, alas. I've seen people completely dismiss worse in the name of a ship.

yup.

[absnow54]

2 hours ago, Cristofle said:

It's a toss-up on how involved Rhaenyra will be in Blood and Cheese, but going by the look on her face in the end, I think she's about to come a lot closer to embracing Daemon's way of thinking, so I lean towards her being more in the loop than not. It COULD still go the other way though - it'll be interesting to see. The other factor there is that Mysaria now has her own beef with the Greens. 

Rhaenyra spent the whole episode trying to tame her inner dragon, and the final shot showed that the dragon was now unleashed. I think she'll be involved in Blood and Cheese, but in a way that allows for plausible deniability. She'll send Daemon off to take from the Greens what was taken from her, knowing full well what he's capable of. 

[Oscirus]

She might order blood vs cheese, i.e. take one of Alicents sons, but they take the instructions to mean any son so it expands to the two little ones.  Then Greens will respond with using Erryk to try and take one of Rhae's little ones.  I Believe the story's gonna be that Alicent and Rhaenyra keep going lower and lower vs each other till they're just as bad if not worse than the guys they're fighting with.

[Constantinople]

Despite Rhaenyra's reaction at the end of the episode, she won't immediately lash out. In fact, I doubt we'll see a response from Rhaenyra for another year and a half.

[magdalene]

3 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Despite Rhaenyra's reaction at the end of the episode, she won't immediately lash out. In fact, I doubt we'll see a response from Rhaenyra for another year and a half.

More like 2 years sadly...

[Cristofle]

I think they showed Mysaria getting screwed by the Greens for a reason. Daemon may intend for Aemond to die, or he may intend for even Helaena to die (taking Alicent's younger, sweeter child as Rhaenyra's younger and sweeter child was taken), but I doubt he and Rhaenyra give super specific instructions for how Blood and Cheese go down. Even Mysaria may not be that explicit - I think there was always the thought that the task was given to two particularly twisted and sadistic people who decided to really just run with it. 

[absnow54]

Are they expanding the timeline of the Dance with Dragons? The whole war takes about a year, right? Joffrey, Aegon the Younger, and Viserys are, like, at least 5 years younger than they should be. I can't imagine Aegon's trauma being as impactful if he's barely 3 years old at the time. 

[RobertDeSneero]

1 hour ago, absnow54 said:

The whole war takes about a year, right?

129-131AC.  Aegon III was born in 120 in the books.

[absnow54]

6 minutes ago, RobertDeSneero said:

129-131AC.  Aegon III was born in 120 in the books.

Yes, but last we saw of Aegon III, he was 3 at most, and that was days before Viserys I died in 129. He should be around 8 by now. I can't imagine his story arc going to a 3-5 year old.

[RobertDeSneero]

Imagine how that ending would be if they had found a way to work in the claim of the book that Arrax was faster and could have out-flown Vhaegar if not for the storm.  Maybe if he had bragged that Arrax was the fastest dragon alive to comfort his mother when being sent on his mission, with someone ominously pointing out that was true only if the weather was good.  Then, he finally gets free of the storm and sees open skies where he has the advantage before--BAM--it's chomping time.

[Oscirus]

13 minutes ago, RobertDeSneero said:

Imagine how that ending would be if they had found a way to work in the claim of the book that Arrax was faster and could have out-flown Vhaegar if not for the storm.  Maybe if he had bragged that Arrax was the fastest dragon alive to comfort his mother when being sent on his mission, with someone ominously pointing out that was true only if the weather was good.  Then, he finally gets free of the storm and sees open skies where he has the advantage before--BAM--it's chomping time.

They showed his speed,cuz he legit lost vagar before coming back to flame vagar.

[ybrik]

Just realized that even though he isn’t mentioned by name, Daeron isn’t just acknowledged in the intro but in the show itself. When Daemon is mentioning the dragons, he mentions that the Blacks have control/access to 13 dragons while the Greens have 4.