S01.E08: Alloyed

[PeterPirate]

11 hours ago, katha said:

I agree with various criticisms of the show here, but found that the last episodes really pulled it around for me. And the earlier stuff makes more sense now that their mystery boxes have been IMO mostly successfully opened.

What I think many shows and movies do very badly is establish decent villains. ROP managed to have two competent, intelligent and patient bad guys with Adar and Sauron. The Uruk rights campaign, Galadriel's crazy racist rant at him etc. is something that has been bothering me since the Jackson films. The heroes always mow down through Orcs/Uruks without every acknowledging that they are killing living beings, Elves that were tortured to boot. It was nice to see that as a plot point/blind spot of the supposed good guys.

And I think both writing and acting for Sauron is just really precise and sharp. How he's flexible in reacting to Galadriel and uses her blind spots and zealotry to lead her in a merry dance. And as he points out, he may have gaslighted her, but she made all these decisions on her own. He didn't even lie to her, just presented the truth in a way that left her free to interpret it in the most catastrophically wrong way possible. And she fell for all of it, hook, line and sinker. That said, he's also just really good and vastly older and more experienced at all this than her, which the last episode showed. The way the real power dynamic is unveiled in acting, writing and cinematography is a real highlight of the series IMO.

As for Galadriel, Tolkien does paint her as drawn to power and secretive before the Third Age. There's also a reason she stays ouf of the effort in LOTR mostly, despite being the most powerful Elf still around. By that point she knows her own worst attributes and can see how trying to directly intervene with Sauron once more might bring them out. So I do appreciate that they basically made her the anti Mary Sue here LOL: All her flaws have disastrous consequences. Her own company mutinies against her because she overstretched her mission. She gets thrown in jail because she just has to run her mouth. She leads Numenor into a disastrous battle, weakening the position of Miriel, who seems a lot more benign than Pharazon. She can't stop the nuking of the Southlands, letting herself get distracted by Adar (and Halbrand/Sauron?). She leads Sauron to the Elves and gives him access to create/taint the first rings of power. And now it seems she's in a bind because the Elves need the rings but she'd get herself banned if she confessed her role in empowering Sauron. Which is something Sauron carefully established. She took so many Ls this season, it's kinda impressive that the showrunners dared to go there IMO.

Of course it remains to be seen if they know how to untangle it going forward, but it's certainly a bold choice and one usually given to male protagonists. I'd guess that she'll have mixed success going forward as well, because the Second Age was a mess all around LOL.

My guess going forward is that they are not going to untangle Galadriel.  She is going to continue the way she is for the rest of the show, creating havoc and never even trying to change.  There is a tempest in her, dammit.  

And in the end, she will shlep back to Lothlorien, much like Kim Wexler going to Florida, and spend the rest of eternity having Yup Yup sex with Celeborn even though her heart will always pine for Halbrand/Sauron.  

Edited October 18, 2022 by PeterPirate

[Raachel2008]

On 10/16/2022 at 1:43 PM, Camera One said:

agree there were too many characters, to the point, where I personally could not "taste" enough of each dish to care about many of the characters and subplots.  So I ended up with an experience which felt very empty.

I don't think the number of characters or plots was exactly the problem; the real problem with this show is the writing. Mind you I'm not talking Tolkien, I'm talking writing, as in a cohesive writing that makes sense. Writing that makes you care and get engaged into the plots/arc/characters/individuals journeys/overall story - at least one of them. Writing that knows how to pace all that. Writing as in lines and scenes that make sense for that context. 

There is a video or article out there where Lloyd Owen (Ellendil) says a scene between him and Galadriel was cut so they could show more of Galadriel riding on her horse on the shores of Numenor. Did we need more? Didn't we already had enough of that lovely shot? What showrunner in his or her mind would allow that? There are so many small and big moments in this show where litte tweaks in the writing would have made such big improvements in the overall result. I'm sure there are writing class out there where the work of the week is just that: make this Númenor scene better, rewrite this little convo here.

Charlie Vickers really knocked it out of the park with Hallbrand / Sauron, because until he entered Celebrimbor forge/office was all "are they really going to make him Sauron?". Although that was really heavy handed - again, the horrible writing - because I thought the elves were not that really welcoming of humans.

Lovely acting by the Númenor crowd. I adore Durin and Disa - the bit about she saying 'this is our kingdom and our future', fantastic. You know that I would love to see next season? The litle dwarves.

Galadriel is proud and dumb. Why she didn't tell Elrond that Hallbrand was Sauron is beyond me. 

I know they are already shooting season 2 but I really really hope someone in charge wants to be praised by a good job and decide they need decent writing and not what we saw. For real.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Raachel2008

[Affogato]

11 hours ago, Anduin said:

She's saying goodbye to her family and friends, the people she's known and loved her whole life. She doesn't know if she's ever going to see them again. Empathy, come on!

This appears to be huge for the Harfoots. They move in a clump. 

[Ilovepie]

@katha - Thanks for the thoughtful analysis. I agree this show did a better job with the villain characterization. Your summary of the misdeeds of Galadriel make a lot of sense. Time will tell if they can bring it around, but unfortunately, I don't trust this show or the actress to make it work. I guess we'll see!

11 hours ago, Anduin said:

She's saying goodbye to her family and friends, the people she's known and loved her whole life. She doesn't know if she's ever going to see them again. Empathy, come on!

I guess, but I just don't care enough about these characters to devote that much time to Nori leaving. I would have rather had more dwarves, or see where Isildur's horse went ;-p

[Haleth]

I'm skeptical that next season we'll see Galadriel still holding on to the secret about Sauron.  I have to believe at her first opportunity she will tell Gil-galad.  It's not surprising she didn't blurt it out to Celebrimbor and Elrond.  

I wonder if it was a conscious effort by the casting director to hire someone who looks so much like Viggo to play Sauron.

[Bellatrix]

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

I wonder if it was a conscious effort by the casting director to hire someone who looks so much like Viggo to play Sauron.

So do I. It was a fun turn-of-the-tables on the "Secret King" trope thing, to be honest 😂

[PeterPirate]

3 hours ago, Bellatrix said:

So do I. It was a fun turn-of-the-tables on the "Secret King" trope thing, to be honest 😂

I do like the idea of seeing Sauron's backstory.  Whatever their flaws, they've positioned themselves to tell whatever story they wish. 

As long as one turns off the logic part of the brain, this show is a guilty pleasure at times.  Damn the canons, full speed ahead!  

Edited October 19, 2022 by PeterPirate

[Bellatrix]

28 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

I do like the idea of seeing Sauron's backstory.  Whatever its flaws, they've positioned themselves to tell whatever story they wish. 

As long as one turns off the logic part of the brain, this show is a guilty pleasure.  Damn the canons, full speed ahead!  

Yes, presicely! 😂😂😂

For all the (completely justified) criticism, it's the only show I have been genuinely excited to get a new episode of in so long! As in: Is it Friday yet? – Heightening my enjoyment that it's the weekend 😊

[tennisgurl]

Of course the one time hard ass warrior woman actually opens up to somebody, it turns out to be freaking Sauron. Halbrand being Sauron has been foreshadowed since basically day one, but I still thought the way it was handled was pretty good. This show's biggest fault to me, beyond the calls of canon blasphemy and Galadriel being an intensely unlikable protagonist for almost the entire season, is that it has way too much going on. It feels like we have so many characters in so many locations that its hard to get a real beat on many of the characters, but I do think that this twist was well done. I do think it does fit into cannon Galadriel pretty well too, her being tempted by the ring and her reasoning is being set up here pretty well, and them having this history does work alright given what happens later. 

I would say that this show is quite flawed, but I do think that its gotten better and I am glad that I watched it. The visuals alone are worth the time it takes to check an episode out, and I think that things like the stilted dialogue did get better as the season went on. Of course some of that might be because I went into this expected it to be the worst thing to happen to TV since Flavor of Love, so maybe my lowered expectations made me a bit more forgiving. 

The Stranger basically has to be Gandolf, he has to be. 

[Camera One]

It wouldn't bother me that much if the Stranger was Gandalf, but at the same time, it's just less interesting.  The Stranger is already clearly a nice guy with great powers so how else does he have to change to become Gandalf-like?  

If the Stranger must be Gandalf, it might be interesting if next season, he meets the two Blue Wizards in Rhûn. And maybe seeing what they are doing/have become could help him to define who he wants to be/what role he wants to play in Middle Earth.  

[Rushmoras]

Well, finally watched the final episode. Eh, it was all right, I guess. Still, don't like the haarfoot community: here, Nori, here's a backpack, now get the f' out of here, you adventuring rascal you!

I guess the "cat is going to be out of the bag" in Season 2, but Galadriele could simply say: "Yo, that Halbrand guy, I figured out he is Sauron, that's why I nearly drowned in that river. Get a raiding party ASAP", but nope, of course she's going to let Halbrand's words mess with her head for at least half a new season.

That being said, I don't think I will watch Season 2, because... what, if what I've read somewhere is true, it will be in the middle of 2024? F' that, I will forget everything that has happened in the first season by that point.

[Camera One]

7 hours ago, Rushmoras said:

That being said, I don't think I will watch Season 2, because... what, if what I've read somewhere is true, it will be in the middle of 2024? F' that, I will forget everything that has happened in the first season by that point.

It would be hard to find the motivate to sit down and watch all the episodes again.  I guess at the end of the day, it should still make sense with a few "previously" scenes.  It might be interesting to see the 8 episodes cut into a 1.5 hour movie.