S01.E07: Driftmark

[Meredith Quill]

Quote

Episode Synopsis:

As the families gather on Driftmark for a funeral, Viserys calls for an end to infighting and Alicent demands justice.

Reminder: 

There is open air book talk here. If you are just watching the TV show and you don't want to stumble into any book talk you should leave now. Book Talk assumes you have read any of the related books to date. 

[mac123x]

Bit slow, and I admit to fast-forwarding through the Daemond / Rhaenyra sex scene.

Viserys proclaiming that anyone questioning the boys' parentage should lose their tongue was setup for a payoff next week I assume?  

Loved Alicent's "oh crap oh crap" reaction every time Larys was looking her direction or spoke to her.  She knew just how dangerous he was.

I also loved Vhaegar giving Aemon a "go away, kid, you're bothering me" look then going back to sleep.

[childeroland]

I wonder if they're foreshadowing faking Rhaenyra's ?supposed? fate at the end.

Edited October 3, 2022 by childeroland

[Cristofle]

I really liked - and actually was briefly successfully fooled - the game they played with Laenor's death. After they decided to make Daemon explicitly responsible for Rhea's death when in the book he probably would have had to have cloned himself, I was pretty sure they were going to have Daemon kill Laenor too (or have him killed) and so when Rhaenyra was an active participant, I was snowed. I was a little confused by Laenor's behavior towards Qarl right out of the gate, but still, I was so relieved to see Laenor alive on that boat, with a chance to go and be the person he actually is without all of this crap hanging over his head.

Is it me, or is the show playing up the bond between Rhaenyra and Daemon? The romantic angle of it, at least? This show is basically outright saying that Daemon and Rhaenyra were miserable for ten years because they truly just longed for each other the whole time. Not only were Rhaenyra and Daemon not really estranged in the book - they rode dragons with Laena - but there was a more powerful bond between Daemon/Laena and Rhaenyra/Harwin than what the show is saying. 

[absnow54]

2 hours ago, Cristofle said:

I really liked - and actually was briefly successfully fooled - the game they played with Laenor's death. After they decided to make Daemon explicitly responsible for Rhea's death when in the book he probably would have had to have cloned himself, I was pretty sure they were going to have Daemon kill Laenor too (or have him killed) and so when Rhaenyra was an active participant, I was snowed.

To be fair, wasn't it implied in the book that Daemon was responsible for Harwin Strong's death? So his kill count was already evened out before we got to Laenor. I am curious to see if Laenor comes back for the Dance. He seems to thrive in battle, and was itching to get back into the action last episode. He also seemed remiss for not protecting his sons in this episode, so I have a hard time believing he could sit the war out.

Speaking of which, I couldn't have cared less about the Velaryon boys in the book, but Jace has really grown on me.

[Constantinople]

It was my understanding that a dragon can't bind with a new rider until the previous rider dies. Laenor's dragon is Seasmoke. Seasmoke is later ridden by Addam of Hull during the Dance (Addam is officially Laenor's bastard but it's understood that Corlys is Addam's father).

I don't know how they plan to square that circle unless viewers should just assume that Laenor died in Essos at some point.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Constantinople

[Meredith Quill]

I think that's exactly what they'll do; have him die offscreen in Essos.

[Cristofle]

12 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

It was my understanding that a dragon can't bind with a new rider until the previous rider dies. Laenor's dragon is Seasmoke. Seasmoke is later ridden by Addam of Hull during the Dance (Addam is officially Laenor's bastard but it's understood that Corlys is Saddam's father).

I don't know how they plan to square that circle unless viewers should just assume that Laenor died in Essos at some point.

I think it's been put that the dragon will not "allow" anyone else to mount it solo while the dragon rider still lives, because the dragons are always the dominant force, but yes, I don't think there's been a case of a dragon allowing someone else to ride it while their rider is alive. So either they're going to claim Sea Smoke somehow cut ties with Laenor because he faked his death (I find it hard to believe Sea Smoke will be fooled, given the otherworldly connection between dragons and riders) or Laenor will die offscreen. 

Of course, the OG series had Jon ride Rhaegal like it was no big deal, so who knows. 

[absnow54]

I wonder if they'll drop the Addam character, and have Laenor return on Seasmoke to take his place in the story. 

[Cristofle]

2 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

I wonder if they'll drop the Addam character, and have Laenor return on Seasmoke to take his place in the story. 

Also possible. Addam wouldn't have been cast yet, I wouldn't think, so we can't say for sure they intend to bring him on. Although that would be very messy if Laenor ever openly returned, lol. Daemon and Rhaenyra's trueborn children are crucial to the continuing of the Targaryen line. 

[Affogato]

14 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

I think it's been put that the dragon will not "allow" anyone else to mount it solo while the dragon rider still lives, because the dragons are always the dominant force, but yes, I don't think there's been a case of a dragon allowing someone else to ride it while their rider is alive. So either they're going to claim Sea Smoke somehow cut ties with Laenor because he faked his death (I find it hard to believe Sea Smoke will be fooled, given the otherworldly connection between dragons and riders) or Laenor will die offscreen. 

Of course, the OG series had Jon ride Rhaegal like it was no big deal, so who knows. 

Sea Smoke probably isn't confused, but Laenor might have cut ties with him. Dragons, as Viserys tells Laenor's sister, get lonely, too.

Dani always rode one of the dragon's, so Rhaegal didn't have a rider and Jon probably had whatever gene would make him capable of bonding with a dragon, so it makes more sense than you'd think. If there had been more people around Dani capable of making the connection with dragons her kids may have diversified earlier.

15 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

Also possible. Addam wouldn't have been cast yet, I wouldn't think, so we can't say for sure they intend to bring him on. Although that would be very messy if Laenor ever openly returned, lol. Daemon and Rhaenyra's trueborn children are crucial to the continuing of the Targaryen line. 

The overall point of the story (I think) is that you have the general bits that people generally remember in the song of ice and fire/game of thrones, and the history, Fire and Blood, which is dry and slanted and comes from specific sources, and then the television show, which I assume is telling us what 'really happened'. We are the fly on the wall of this fake history. Maybe Laenor returns, calling himself 'Addam'.  As flies, we will recognize the bullshit.

[Cristofle]

1 minute ago, Affogato said:

Dani always rode one of the dragon's, so Rhaegal didn't have a rider and Jon probably had whatever gene would make him capable of bonding with a dragon, so it makes more sense than you'd think. If there had been more people around Dani capable of making the connection with dragons her kids may have diversified earlier.

It's not that it's surprising that Jon was able to ride Rhaegal. I think all book readers assume that Jon will eventually claim Rhaegal, the dragon named for his birth father. Jon is a Targaryen. But he doesn't know that and Dany doesn't know that when he rides him, so it would have been shocking that Rhaegal would allow it given that no one knows Jon has Targaryen blood in that moment. It would not have been something Dany suggested for funsies, and the show skipped straight over that. Also, Jon has no known reaction to Rhaegal dying, despite the fierce bond between dragon and rider. I'm not at all surprised that Jon claimed Rhaegal, just irritated at the sloppy writing about it, lol. Hopefully this show will not be nearly so sloppy about the connection between dragons and their riders. 

[Meredith Quill]

10 minutes ago, Affogato said:

Maybe Laenor returns, calling himself 'Addam'. 

That thought crossed my mind too. Perhaps he will use the name as an alias, with shaven head and more years passed it could just about work.

[ursula]

8 minutes ago, SilverStormm said:

That thought crossed my mind too. Perhaps he will use the name as an alias, with shaven head and more years passed it could just about work.

And Addam eventually dies, right? So this is actually a clever twist. 

59 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

It was my understanding that a dragon can't bind with a new rider until the previous rider dies. Laenor's dragon is Seasmoke. Seasmoke is later ridden by Addam of Hull during the Dance (Addam is officially Laenor's bastard but it's understood that Corlys is Addam's father).

Or they'll just give another dragon to Addam to ride and merge the characters of Hugh and Ulf who are narratively redundant i.e. they are essentially the same characters going through the same arc. You could tell the same story with just one of them.

[magdalene]

I saw somewhere that they cast Addam for next season.

[Affogato]

25 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

It's not that it's surprising that Jon was able to ride Rhaegal. I think all book readers assume that Jon will eventually claim Rhaegal, the dragon named for his birth father. Jon is a Targaryen. But he doesn't know that and Dany doesn't know that when he rides him, so it would have been shocking that Rhaegal would allow it given that no one knows Jon has Targaryen blood in that moment. It would not have been something Dany suggested for funsies, and the show skipped straight over that. Also, Jon has no known reaction to Rhaegal dying, despite the fierce bond between dragon and rider. I'm not at all surprised that Jon claimed Rhaegal, just irritated at the sloppy writing about it, lol. Hopefully this show will not be nearly so sloppy about the connection between dragons and their riders. 

I think the egg in the cradle thing is sort of hopeful, more than anything. Then there is the magic that Egg burns down the summer palace trying to jumpstart, and the magic that allows Dani to survive the fire (we are told it is magic). My memory is that it is actually the same magic. There is a lot we don't know about the bond, and there seems to be/have been 'magic' involved, actual magic.

[Cristofle]

10 minutes ago, Affogato said:

I think the egg in the cradle thing is sort of hopeful, more than anything. Then there is the magic that Egg burns down the summer palace trying to jumpstart, and the magic that allows Dani to survive the fire (we are told it is magic). My memory is that it is actually the same magic. There is a lot we don't know about the bond, and there seems to be/have been 'magic' involved, actual magic.

I'm not really talking about the egg in the cradle. It's obvious with Laena and Vhagar that it's not necessary to bond a human and a dragon. But Valyrian blood is crucial. No one who doesn't have the blood of old Valyria has ever been the primary/solo dragon rider. Starks did not ride dragons. People without Valyrian blood would attempt to claim dragons, but it usually ended very badly. Jon would have been highly aware of this, as he was known to be fond of Targaryen lore, and I would think Dany would be too after all the years with Viserys (I can't remember if either voiced this awareness, to be fair - it's been too long since I've done a reread of the series in full). It was widely known that a Stark could not simply hop on a dragon for a fun ride. Either Dany would never have suggested Jon ride Rhaegal on such a lark, or Jon would never have agreed, but probably both. I do believe GRRM intends for Jon to claim Rhaegal, but on the .0000000000005% chance he finishes the book, I'd put down $$$ that it doesn't happen like it did in the show, lol. 

Edited October 3, 2022 by Cristofle

[Affogato]

12 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

I'm not really talking about the egg in the cradle. It's obvious with Laena and Vhagar that it's not necessary to bond a human and a dragon. But Valyrian blood is crucial. No one who doesn't have the blood of old Valyria has ever been the primary/solo dragon rider. Starks did not ride dragons. People without Valyrian blood would attempt to claim dragons, but it usually ended very badly. Jon would have been highly aware of this, as he was known to be fond of Targaryen lore, and I would think Dany would be too after all the years with Viserys (I can't remember if either voiced this awareness, to be fair - it's been too long since I've done a reread of the series in full). It was widely known that a Stark could not simply hop on a dragon for a fun ride. Either Dany would never have suggested Jon ride Rhaegal on such a lark, or Jon would never have agreed, but probably both. I do believe GRRM intends for Jon to claim Rhaegal, but on the .0000000000005% chance he finishes the book, I'd put down $$$ that it doesn't happen like it did in the show, lol. 

Well, probably it won't happen as it does in the show. I'm sure there is some sort of 'blood' component, just saying the magic is pretty vague and fuzzy in the book.

All the starks have a bond with their dire wolves, which is also odd and not fully explained.

[Cristofle]

5 minutes ago, Affogato said:

All the starks have a bond with their dire wolves, which is also odd and not fully explained.

Also a failing in the show from very early on - I'm not sure why they did so poorly with the animals tbh, other than they didn't want to portray it onscreen. The Starks are all seemingly capable of warging into their wolves, not just Bran. Robb and Grey Wolf are so bonded, Robb says his name right as he dies. Jon too - he says "Ghost" as he fades out/maybe dies in his last current chapter in he books. I do think it's written as somewhat similar and a potential thing that sets Jon apart - he is likely to be bonded to both a direwolf and a dragon.

And yet I still can't quite believe they were as sloppy as they were with how Jon rode Rhaegal, lol. Just a fun date! Never over it. Especially since we'll all die of old age before the books ever show what was actually supposed to happen. 

So far this show has been better at highlighting the importance of the bond between dragon and human - Sea Smoke will be an interesting way to see if they'll keep it up.  

[ursula]

43 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

No one who doesn't have the blood of old Valyria has ever been the primary/solo dragon rider. Starks did not ride dragons. People without Valyrian blood would attempt to claim dragons, but it usually ended very badly.

There's a very good chance that Nettles is non Valyrian. I think GRRM introduced that ambiguity in her back-story on purpose.

But yeah, you're right that Jon thinking "i'll just ride a dragon even though I'm not Targaryen or have Valyrian blood" (and it seems to be a known history that of all the Great Houses, the Starks never had an opportunity to intermarry with the Targs) is random af.

Edited October 3, 2022 by ursula

[Cristofle]

2 minutes ago, ursula said:

There's a very good chance that Nettles is non Valyrian. I think GRRM introduced that ambiguity in her back-story on purpose.

But yeah, you're right that Jon thinking "i'll just ride a dragon even though I'm not Targaryen or have Valyrian blood" (and it seems to be a known history that of all the Great Houses, the Starks never had an opportunity to intermarry with the Targs) is random af.

True re: Nettles. But yeah, it's the RANDOMNESS of Jon and Rhaegal in the show that kills me. There is NO reason he'd ever think he has a spec of Valyrian blood (in the books, he is seemingly Ned's mini-me - of course, actually Lyanna's, but no one knows yet - which bothers Catelyn), and he would be aware that those with Valyrian blood are the dragon riders. And I would think Dany would also be aware of that - Viserys raised her to believe in how exceptional Targaryens are and always have been in every way. She's certainly never seen either of her other dragons being ridden by anyone else, let alone a non-Targaryen. I just think that moment, at least in the books, would be shocking to many, if and when Jon claims Rhaegal. It should be a huge thing, not "Hey, what might be fun to do today?" Realistically, Dany would be more likely to offer Jon ride with her and Drogon if she wanted to take him on a dragon ride. 

So I think Sea Smoke will be a very interesting chance for the writers of HOTD to show how seriously they intend to take this bond. Will they have Laenor die offscreen? Will Laenor return disguised as someone else? Will they collapse characters and give Addam, or whoever is in his place, another dragon while Sea Smoke disappears, possibly to rejoin Laenor in a far-away land? Or will someone randomly be able to claim Sea Smoke with no explanation? I could come to regret this, lol, but so far I'm glad they've opened this chance to show their hand to some extent. 

[Affogato]

2 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

True re: Nettles. But yeah, it's the RANDOMNESS of Jon and Rhaegal in the show that kills me. There is NO reason he'd ever think he has a spec of Valyrian blood (in the books, he is seemingly Ned's mini-me - of course, actually Lyanna's, but no one knows yet - which bothers Catelyn), and he would be aware that those with Valyrian blood are the dragon riders. And I would think Dany would also be aware of that - Viserys raised her to believe in how exceptional Targaryens are and always have been in every way. She's certainly never seen either of her other dragons being ridden by anyone else, let alone a non-Targaryen. I just think that moment, at least in the books, would be shocking to many, if and when Jon claims Rhaegal. It should be a huge thing, not "Hey, what might be fun to do today?" Realistically, Dany would be more likely to offer Jon ride with her and Drogon if she wanted to take him on a dragon ride. 

So I think Sea Smoke will be a very interesting chance for the writers of HOTD to show how seriously they intend to take this bond. Will they have Laenor die offscreen? Will Laenor return disguised as someone else? Will they collapse characters and give Addam, or whoever is in his place, another dragon while Sea Smoke disappears, possibly to rejoin Laenor in a far-away land? Or will someone randomly be able to claim Sea Smoke with no explanation? I could come to regret this, lol, but so far I'm glad they've opened this chance to show their hand to some extent. 

Well, there has to have been some interbreeding that people lost control of, bastards and whathaveyou. We know Daemon didn't have children with Rhea but he could have, and some Valyrian could have sown wild oats up and down the brothels, and then Vhaegar really really didn't like being lonely, I guess. Traumatic for a dragon.

Honestly, my impression was that Rhaegar wasn't random, in that there was a connection between the two. Jon may have attributed it to his association with Dany or to something like his bond with Ghost, but there was an invitation there. Maybe I'm wrong, it is hard to read the facial expressions of Wyverns.

[Cristofle]

9 minutes ago, Affogato said:

Honestly, my impression was that Rhaegar wasn't random, in that there was a connection between the two. Jon may have attributed it to his association with Dany or to something like his bond with Ghost, but there was an invitation there. Maybe I'm wrong, it is hard to read the facial expressions of Wyverns.

Jon didn't seem to associate it with anything that I saw. I love Jon. Totally #TeamStark. But I just didn't see any awareness on his part that this was an extraordinary moment that highlighted something about his mother. I think Rhaegal did nudge him like "Are you ever going to notice me dad???!!" but it should have been a much bigger moment, not comedic relief. It's AS a Jon fan that I'm mad, lol. He was robbed of so much in the final season, but that was particularly egregious. 

[ursula]

4 minutes ago, Affogato said:

Well, there has to have been some interbreeding that people lost control of, bastards and whathaveyou. We know Daemon didn't have children with Rhea but he could have, and some Valyrian could have sown wild oats up and down the brothels, and then Vhaegar really really didn't like being lonely, I guess. Traumatic for a dragon.

It's actually significant in the books that the Targs and Starks (and Lannisters) have never mixed in the past. While there've been marriage alliances between Targs and a lot of major (and minor) Southern Houses, there's been none with the North. 

[Cristofle]

1 minute ago, ursula said:

It's actually significant in the books that the Targs and Starks (and Lannisters) have never mixed in the past. While there've been marriage alliances between Targs and a lot of major (and minor) Southern Houses, there's been none with the North. 

Yep. So since he would not have gotten the ability to ride a dragon from his father's blood (so far as he knows, believing Ned to be his father), it then must be his mother's blood in his mind (yes, it's actually the reverse, lol, but he doesn't that yet). Jon has spent his whole life wondering who his mother is and this would have been a stunning, significant clue in Jon's mind. And yet....nothing. I'd say I'll get over it eventually, but I won't.

[Constantinople]

2 hours ago, absnow54 said:

I wonder if they'll drop the Addam character, and have Laenor return on Seasmoke to take his place in the story. 

1 hour ago, SilverStormm said:

That thought crossed my mind too. Perhaps he will use the name as an alias, with shaven head and more years passed it could just about work.

Laenor is 20 years older than Addam in the books and Addam was a teenager when he rode Seasmoke. It would be hard for Laenor to pass himself off as a teenager.

Addam is also described as having silver hair, not bald.

Then there's the issue that no one in Driftmark noticed that someone calling themselves Addam from Hull appeared out of thin air and had never been seen before.

Plus you change a major part of Rhaenyra's personality. She wants Addam "sharply questioned" and Nettles killed because she doesn't trust bastards despite having three of her own. Another example, perhaps the most important, of Rhaenyra's double standards.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Constantinople

[Meredith Quill]

I don't mean Laenor would 'play' the Addam from the book, I mean a total change from the book and how that story plays out. It's not impossible but Laenor dying off-screen seems more likely bc neater in terms of book canon imo.

Rhaenyra has double standards for sure, and I don't agree with everything she does by any means. I just think she's overall less awful than Alicent & co. That's a glowing tribute isn't it, lol.

[Constantinople]

Laenor dying off screen is neater, but it's cold in a way. Everyone else but the Crabfeeder gets an on screen death and even the Crabfeeder's dead body is shown.

Also, I don't see how the can get rid of Addam and Alyn. It says something about Corlys that he eventually decides he doesn't want Joffrey to be the heir to Driftmark after Luke is reunited with his father.

So tough luck for Laenor.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Constantinople

[PatsyandEddie]

An interesting take on Helaena’s rhymes during the show.

https://apple.news/AQA24RZZmQ7eaAZ2Iuri-YA

[absnow54]

Yes, I feel like Laenor's end was their way of subverting the "bury your gays" trope, a criticism they're trying to avoid, but given what's to come, it's hard to remove Laenor from the narrative completely, without him dying off screen. The character we've been presented with doesn't seem to be the type who would shrug and say "not my problem" at his mother and "sons" dying for Rhaenyra's cause.  

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, Constantinople said:

Laenor is 20 years older than Addam in the books and Addam was a teenager when he rode Seasmoke. It would be hard for Laenor to pass himself off as a teenager.

Addam is also described as having silver hair, not bald.

Then there's the issue that no one in Driftmark noticed that someone calling themselves Addam from Hull appeared out of thin air and had never been seen before.

Plus you change a major part of Rhaenyra's personality. She wants Addam "sharply questioned" and Nettles killed because she doesn't trust bastards despite having three of her own. Another example, perhaps the most important, of Rhaenyra's double standards.

I think this show is what really happens and diverges from the book, so history may have recorded something different than what actually happens. It is certainly possible that some characters turn out better or worse than expected, since the book often mentions the point of view of the main sources of information.  So, I dunno, basically. I think of things, but I'm pretty sure there are no happy endings here.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Affogato

[Cristofle]

27 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

Yes, I feel like Laenor's end was their way of subverting the "bury your gays" trope, a criticism they're trying to avoid, but given what's to come, it's hard to remove Laenor from the narrative completely, without him dying off screen. The character we've been presented with doesn't seem to be the type who would shrug and say "not my problem" at his mother and "sons" dying for Rhaenyra's cause.  

Honestly, this Laenor? I think would do it. Hard to say about the Laenor of the book, but in the past two episodes, they've gone out of their way to be clear that Laenor is kind, but he's not really that strong. Laenor HATES the confines of this life. He hates being in his own skin. He has avoided really stepping up and fighting back against the claims regarding the boys, even though he clearly loves them. He has avoided doing much raising with them so he can drink and flirt with Qarl. He avoided every difficult situation in this episode. He is not good at hiding who he is, and he simply can't bear it. One can argue this was a terrible unkindness to Rhaenys and Corlys, but this idea that Laenor martyred himself on the altar of what Rhaenyra wanted...it just hasn't been shown in Laenor. He offered to step up, but Rhaenyra probably correctly discerned it wouldn't last long. It's just not in his nature. 

[absnow54]

I think it's less about family duty, and more about getting in on the action. The Laenor we've been presented with wants to leave boring court life so he can fight in the Stepstones. And he never seemed more alive than when he was riding Seasmoke during Daemon's fake surrender. So it feels like the opportunity for a good battle mixed with his loyalty to Rhaenyra could potentially draw him back to Westeros.  

[Cristofle]

2 hours ago, absnow54 said:

I think it's less about family duty, and more about getting in on the action. The Laenor we've been presented with wants to leave boring court life so he can fight in the Stepstones. And he never seemed more alive than when he was riding Seasmoke during Daemon's fake surrender. So it feels like the opportunity for a good battle mixed with his loyalty to Rhaenyra could potentially draw him back to Westeros.  

I don't think Laenor can go back there. Yes, at the time, it was the happiest and most energetic we've seen him, but he wasn't married or engaged. He could fight and then go off with Joffrey. Where they stand now, there is no putting that ship back in the bottle. Laenor was willing to recommit to Rhaenyra and would have tried - and it would have killed him. Already, he seemed almost suicidal. They can't turn back the clock and make Jace, Luce, and Joffrey true-born sons. Laenor has become such an open joke, Alicent mocked him in his family's home to his father's face and his father couldn't even protest. Did Rhaenyra want to get out of her marriage and marry Daemon? Yes. But it doesn't mean that Laenor isn't still better off getting completely out. He may not be able to stay gone forever, but he was not in a survivable situation as it was. Laenor isn't the victim of this scenario. Corlys and Rhaenys, yes. Poor random servant, yes. Laenor, no. It's better for him to be free right now. 

[Affogato]

Ok it is also possible no one e ever figures out who is riding Seasmoke to war in foreign lands. 
 

maybe later some guy shows up riding Poppybright. Totally different.  Son of a bastard offshoot of the family. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by Affogato

[Lady S.]

Going by how garbled all the reports of Dany's dragons are in the main books, and how Balerion himself disappeared from common knowledge for over a year in F&B, I suppose it's not impossible Seasmoke could go unknown far enough from Westeros. But it'd have to be way east like Qarth and he would have to travel there by very circuitous and dangerous routes.

Much neater to have Laenor die as a sellsword offscreen and Rhaenyra somehow figure it out, most likely by Seasmoke's response.

[heckkitty]

On 10/3/2022 at 11:50 AM, PatsyandEddie said:

An interesting take on Helaena’s rhymes during the show.

https://apple.news/AQA24RZZmQ7eaAZ2Iuri-YA

I can only read the first paragraph of this for some reason. Would you mind summarizing?  thanks so much!

[PatsyandEddie]

The article mentions Helaena’s seeming ability   with prophesies. She mutters about Aemond losing an eye and that the last ring of her centipede has no legs at all.

The spider is mentioned as weaving a web and of black and green threads, possibly referring to the coming war between the Blacks and Greens and the hand works the loom, which could mean her grandfather, Otto as the mastermind behind the throne.

[heckkitty]

Thank you! Interesting!