S06.E01: Four Hundred Cartons of Undeclared Cigarettes and a Niblingo

[possibilities]

Mary was SAYING she felt like God might be punishing her, so I don't think it's Sheldon's idea of God that led him to that question. He doesn't believe, and was asking his mom why she believed what she believed.

[proserpina65]

15 hours ago, ChitChat said:

I think that Sheldon has a misguided and childish idea of the nature of God.  I don't believe that God "deliberately" makes our lives miserable.  Yes, there are challenges in this life, but unlike Sheldon, I don't think God takes any delight in the struggles we go through.   

"'For I know the plans I have for you,' declares the LORD, 'plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.'" — Jeremiah 29:11

That doesn't mean that my point of view is the right one, but from my perspective, this is where the writers/producers, etc. in the tv world misrepresent God and religion.  YMMV.  

It's exactly how some people view God, so why is it misrepresenting?  Sure, it's not how everyone views their supreme deity, but there are plenty out there who do.  (See all the televangelists who claim that natural disasters are punishment for homosexuality existing.)

15 hours ago, possibilities said:

Mary was SAYING she felt like God might be punishing her, so I don't think it's Sheldon's idea of God that led him to that question. He doesn't believe, and was asking his mom why she believed what she believed.

Exactly.  Sheldon's idea of God is that he's a myth.

[Chit Chat]

55 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

It's exactly how some people view God, so why is it misrepresenting? 

I just speak for myself.  It's misrepresenting to me and what I experienced in the Baptist church.  

Sheldon tends to make snide and condescending remarks about religion and God to his mom frequently.  Granted, some of Mary's ideas do invite sarcasm, but Sheldon is such a know-it-all that he tends to ignore anything she says on the subject.  I have a close relative who is on the spectrum, and you can't win an argument with him either!!  I guess his arrogance at such a young age just bugs me. He has so much to learn in life!  

The nicest thing Sheldon ever said in this regard was back in Season 1, and it was to the effect of him not believing in God, but he was happy that his mom was his Christian soldier (since she always defended him).   

[proserpina65]

1 minute ago, ChitChat said:

Sheldon tends to make snide and condescending remarks about religion and God to his mom frequently.  Granted, some of Mary's ideas do invite sarcasm, but Sheldon is such a know-it-all that he tends to ignore anything she says on the subject.  I have a close relative who is on the spectrum, and you can't win an argument with him either!!  I guess his arrogance at such a young age just bugs me. He has so much to learn in life!  

Now THIS I agree with.  He's never been my favorite character precisely because of the insistence that he's always right.

[Chit Chat]

4 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

He's never been my favorite character precisely because of the insistence that he's always right.

And in real life, this kind of person is infuriating to be around.  ;)  

[Tom Holmberg]

1 hour ago, proserpina65 said:

Exactly.  Sheldon's idea of God is that he's a myth.

Sheldon's idea of God is that HE should have the job.

[rmontro]

19 hours ago, ChitChat said:

I think that Sheldon has a misguided and childish idea of the nature of God.  I don't believe that God "deliberately" makes our lives miserable.

You know, everyone acts like the Coopers have it so hard, but one thing I like to keep in mind is that it can always be worse.  Okay, Georgie got a girl pregnant, he's a responsible young man, and I bet he'll work his behind off to support his child (if it's born).  And some acquaintances are looking down their nose at them, but hey good to know now they can't be relied upon.  They've got their health (until George has his heart attack), I'd say they have a lot to be thankful for.  

[Bethany]

5 minutes ago, rmontro said:

I'd say they have a lot to be thankful for.  

I hope within a few episodes that the Coopers are also feeling that things could be worse and a little sunshine comes their way.  Right now though I don't blame them for feeling hard done by.  It's been one damn thing after another for awhile now.  The Coopers are vying with the Conners for the family that just can't win.

[Chit Chat]

2 minutes ago, rmontro said:

You know, everyone acts like the Coopers have it so hard, but one thing I like to keep in mind is that it can always be worse. 

Overall, the Coopers seem to have a pretty good life, but they represent people in general with the ups and downs they continually face.  When things pile on and one feels overwhelmed, it's easy to see no silver lining around you, especially when one loses a job.  Things can always be worse, but when you're knee-deep in problems, one can lose sight of that.  Hopefully Mary will regain her footing before things get really bad for her.  I need some happy from this show!!

[babyhouseman]

4 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

Exactly.  Sheldon's idea of God is that he's a myth.

If it can't be scientifically proven, Sheldon doesn't believe in it.

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, Elizabeth Anne said:

The Coopers are vying with the Conners for the family that just can't win.

I don't think the Conners even want to win, there's the difference.

[Ziggy]

3 hours ago, rmontro said:

You know, everyone acts like the Coopers have it so hard, but one thing I like to keep in mind is that it can always be worse.  Okay, Georgie got a girl pregnant, he's a responsible young man, and I bet he'll work his behind off to support his child (if it's born).  And some acquaintances are looking down their nose at them, but hey good to know now they can't be relied upon.  They've got their health (until George has his heart attack), I'd say they have a lot to be thankful for.  

You're not wrong, but when something goes wrong and you're in the thick of it, it's human nature to respond the way they are responding.  It's human nature to get down and have trouble not wallowing.

Personally, I have had a few things happen recently that really got me down.  Nothing like what the Coopers are going through (no job losses or unwanted pregnancies), but a couple of rough patches.  After a few days, things were better and the world looked different and I was able to realize that I didn't have it so bad.  I started to have a better perspective and see just how good my life was.

[Ziggy]

On 10/2/2022 at 1:19 PM, ctlady said:

As a born-again Christian, this episode infuriated me ... this can go on in ANY church or denomination, but it's convenient to demonize Christianity rather than Catholicism, protestants, etc.

I really think most people know that this type of thing can and does happen in many churches.  I also think that many people who have a problem with religion are looking at examples like this and failing to realize the many, many (many) good things that churches do and they many ways that they contribute to their communities and beyond.

It saddens me a great deal that you felt the need to classify Catholics and Protestants as something other than Christian.  As a life-long Catholic, I can tell you that I am most definitely a Christian!

I would be very interested in learning why you believe otherwise.

[rmontro]

2 hours ago, Ziggy said:

You're not wrong, but when something goes wrong and you're in the thick of it, it's human nature to respond the way they are responding.  It's human nature to get down and have trouble not wallowing.

Not if you're Margaret Houlihan.

Sorry to hear about your troubles, I hope they get better.  But I am a firm believer in counting your blessings, and approaching life with gratitude.  Positive attitudes will usually take you further than negative ones.

[Ziggy]

8 hours ago, rmontro said:

I am a firm believer in counting your blessings, and approaching life with gratitude.  Positive attitudes will usually take you further than negative ones.

Absolutely, but sometimes, people just need a little time to grieve.  It's not wrong.  It's just human.

[Chit Chat]

I think they wasted an opportunity for some comedy gold with Connie & Georgie Jr. in jail.  I wanted to see more of their adventure.  I wanted a recap of them being arrested and then booked into jail.  Would've loved to have seen the mugshots!!

[proserpina65]

12 hours ago, rmontro said:

Sorry to hear about your troubles, I hope they get better.  But I am a firm believer in counting your blessings, and approaching life with gratitude.  Positive attitudes will usually take you further than negative ones.

Unfortunately it's very easy to say that and not so easy to do it when you're in the middle of a really rough patch.  All the "well at least I'm not in Ukraine" moments didn't make the last 8 months of my life any less difficult.

3 hours ago, ChitChat said:

I think they wasted an opportunity for some comedy gold with Connie & Georgie Jr. in jail.  I wanted to see more of their adventure.  I wanted a recap of them being arrested and then booked into jail.  Would've loved to have seen the mugshots!!

Me too.

[Bethany]

13 hours ago, rmontro said:

But I am a firm believer in counting your blessings, and approaching life with gratitude.  Positive attitudes will usually take you further than negative ones.

If the Coopers were taking this approach to what has been happening to them I think a lot more viewers (me included) would be seriously ticked off.  Frankly it would just not ring true if the writers were piling on the negatives the way they are but had the characters smiling it off and saying "worse things happen at sea".

Georgie and the idiotic pregnancy storyline aside financial difficulties would be a huge pressure on any family and this is the big thing they are doing to the Cooper family right now.  I am assuming this is part of the lead up to having the 

Spoiler

marriage implode once and for all

but even if that's not the case it's realistic that worrying about paying the bills and feeding the family would take a big toll on Mary and George.

[rmontro]

3 hours ago, Elizabeth Anne said:

If the Coopers were taking this approach to what has been happening to them I think a lot more viewers (me included) would be seriously ticked off.  Frankly it would just not ring true if the writers were piling on the negatives the way they are but had the characters smiling it off and saying "worse things happen at sea".

It's more of a life philosophy than a prescription for a sitcom.  One that has worked well for me.  Be grateful.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

Unfortunately it's very easy to say that and not so easy to do it when you're in the middle of a really rough patch.  All the "well at least I'm not in Ukraine" moments didn't make the last 8 months of my life any less difficult.

11 minutes ago, rmontro said:

It's more of a life philosophy than a prescription for a sitcom.  One that has worked well for me.  Be grateful.

I suppose we can thank god this show doesn’t have a clinically depressed character going to a prayer meeting and being told to just “cheer up.” 
Maybe their verbal pitchforks and old-timey shunning are a tad less toxic.
 

[rmontro]

52 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I suppose we can thank god this show doesn’t have a clinically depressed character going to a prayer meeting and being told to just “cheer up.” 

There's a big difference between being grateful for your life and what you have and being told to "cheer up".

[proserpina65]

On 10/6/2022 at 5:53 PM, rmontro said:

There's a big difference between being grateful for your life and what you have and being told to "cheer up".

Telling yourself that, sure.  Telling someone else IS the same as saying "Cheer up".  Either way, it's not the angle the show is taking with the Coopers' situation, which I find realistic and refreshing.

[kassa]

On 10/2/2022 at 10:44 PM, Sarah 103 said:

We know they are against dancing and rock and roll. 

A modern show that I think does a good job is Blue Bloods. The characters are religious, but they rarely make professional decisions based on it. We do not see them using church doctrine to determine how do to thier jobs. I can't come up with a modern sitcom that does the same thing.  

It's not current, but Everybody Loves Raymond portrayed a pretty observant Italian Catholic church-going family. Father Hubley always had the best lines.  All in the Family also tended to have pretty good depictions of clergy, despite Archie's opinion of them.

I don't think the writing has changed for the kids so much as the same writing coming out of the mouths of adolescents rings differently to us.  Lines that were merely smart-alec-y from tween Missy are going to sound more aggressive from a more mature Missy.  It's still just Missy. 

One aspect of Mary's crisis of faith that hasn't been brought up is the flirtation with the youth pastor. She has got to be questioning whether God is getting back at her for that. Had this same thing happened without that issue, had everybody turned on her when there was nothing she could criticize herself for... THEN she might have been more able to confront others over their hypocrisy. But if she thinks she called this on herself in some way...

[Ziggy]

On 10/2/2022 at 5:31 PM, rmontro said:

I just don't think Hollywood knows how to depict religious people.  

I think Mary is a fair representation of many religious people.  Many, but by no means all.  There are honestly some people who are very similar to her.  She strikes me as someone who is very new to the faith.  She is following the teachings as she understand them, and she believes that following those teachings will bring good things for her and her family. I'm just not sure she has really questioned them.  This is something that one needs to do in order to grow in faith.  You have to challenge your beliefs and not be afraid when others challenge them.  Her family challenges her, to an extent, and she does not have answers for many of their challenges.  Ideally, as she grows, she will have better answers but she will also allow herself to let go of some of her "beliefs" is she concludes that the challenges are valid.  Growing in faith is a process, and no one is ever finished.

On 10/2/2022 at 9:44 PM, Sarah 103 said:

A modern show that I think does a good job is Blue Bloods. The characters are religious, but they rarely make professional decisions based on it. We do not see them using church doctrine to determine how do to thier jobs.

I've never seen Blue Bloods, but I don't really understand what you mean.  Following your faith ideally means that your faith has helped to form your conscience, so it should influence all aspects of your life.  If should mean that decisions you make are influenced by trying to do what God would want you to do.  I wouldn't think this would be exclusive only to people who belong to a church or a religion.  I think most of us do try to do the right thing.  Being a part of a faith community can strengthen and encourage people and hold them accountable.  It doesn't necessarily make them any better at doing the right thing than anyone else.

I think the show is doing an excellent job of depicting how some people view religion and how some churches behave.  It doesn't represent everyone, because that's simply not possible.

[proserpina65]

On 10/12/2022 at 7:32 PM, Ziggy said:

Following your faith ideally means that your faith has helped to form your conscience, so it should influence all aspects of your life.  If should mean that decisions you make are influenced by trying to do what God would want you to do. 

I don't watch Blue Bloods, but the characters on the show are police officers and prosecutors.  They absolutely should NOT be letting what they think God would want them to do influence how they perform their jobs.  They should be following the law.  Period.  That applies no matter the religion, spirituality or lack thereof.

[Ziggy]

7 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

I don't watch Blue Bloods, but the characters on the show are police officers and prosecutors.  They absolutely should NOT be letting what they think God would want them to do influence how they perform their jobs.  They should be following the law.  Period.  That applies no matter the religion, spirituality or lack thereof.

I'm not sure what teachings you might be thinking of.  I don't know of any laws that a police officer or prosecutor would be following that would conflict with their faith.

I don’t mean to say that there will never be ethical dilemmas. That’s life. Life is not easy, peezy, 100% cut and dry.

When it comes to laws, we’re really just talking about whether or not our actions might harm another human being. Murder, stealing, sexual assault, speeding, driving recklessly … those are all against the law, and those can all result in very bad things for other people.

Georgie choosing to have sex outside of marriage might be against the teachings of Mary’s church, but it’s not something that is punishable by law. It’s also something that not everyone would think is morally wrong. If a police officer would try to impose that type of teaching on someone else, I would absolutely have a problem with that. But I do not believe there are laws (or at least none that I can think of) that a police officer would be opposed to enforcing based on their faith.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Ziggy

[proserpina65]

15 hours ago, Ziggy said:

I'm not sure what teachings you might be thinking of.  I don't know of any laws that a police officer or prosecutor would be following that would conflict with their faith.

I've watch a lot of police shows and there are times when characters made decisions or expressed opinions about situations based on their faith which do interfere with the performance of their duties.  Things like judging whether or not someone should be considered a victim because they were engaged in something the character's religion considers sinful but which are not actually illegal (extramarital/premarital sex, abortion, homosexuality - these are all examples).  How much that does or doesn't happen in real life is a different debate, but it does happen on tv shows.  Apparently this doesn't happen on Blue Bloods according to the original poster.  That is the point I was making.

None of this actually applies to Georgie's storyline on Young Sheldon so I'm leaving it at that.

Edited October 19, 2022 by proserpina65

[Ziggy]

2 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

I've watch a lot of police shows and there are times when characters made decisions or expressed opinions about situations based on their faith which do interfere with the performance of their duties.  Things like judging whether or not someone should be considered a victim because they were engaged in something the character's religion considers sinful but which are not actually illegal (extramarital/premarital sex, abortion, homosexuality - these are all examples).  How much that does or doesn't happen in real life is a different debate, but it does happen on tv shows.  Apparently this doesn't happen on Blue Bloods according to the original poster.  That is the point I was making.

None of this actually applies to Georgie's storyline on Young Sheldon so I'm leaving it at that.

That's actually my point, as well.  It is ideal that people make a distinction between teachings that churches have because (in theory) following them brings one closer to God and teachings that exist because not following them is hurtful to others.  The examples you listed are all examples that some religions believe will bring a person closer to God.

Religion also teaches respecting others and not judging others.  Churches and religious people often fail at this crucial tenet.

This has EVERYTHING to do with Georgie's storyline.

Mary is struggling with her faith because following the rules didn't put her on the easy road.  So she now needs to rethink the point of the teachings.  Mary's church is behaving badly and not actually following their faith.

The show's portrayal is very, very accurate!  And there is a huge difference between living your faith and projecting your faith on others.  There are situations that present moral dilemmas, but that will happen to all of us, whether we chose religion or not.

[proserpina65]

17 hours ago, Ziggy said:

That's actually my point, as well.  It is ideal that people make a distinction between teachings that churches have because (in theory) following them brings one closer to God and teachings that exist because not following them is hurtful to others.  The examples you listed are all examples that some religions believe will bring a person closer to God.

I'm confused - are you saying that those are things COPS & PROSECUTORS should consider while dealing with crime victims?  If you, that's completely wrong. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding.  But my point was that they should not be considering what their church teaches them AT ALL during the performance of their duties, only what the law says.  What will or won't bring them closer to their god is absolutely irrelevant.

But like I said, we're getting way off topic and so that's my last word on the subject.

[Ziggy]

4 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

I'm confused - are you saying that those are things COPS & PROSECUTORS should consider while dealing with crime victims?  If you, that's completely wrong. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding.  But my point was that they should not be considering what their church teaches them AT ALL during the performance of their duties, only what the law says.  What will or won't bring them closer to their god is absolutely irrelevant.

But like I said, we're getting way off topic and so that's my last word on the subject.

I'm saying, faith and life are not mutually exclusive.  Faith and the law are not mutually exclusive.  It's not always one or the other.

Of course people who work in law enforcement should follow the law.  How they behave and how they treat people is important, also.  The examples you gave are examples of people misunderstanding their faith and not following it correctly.  And that could be because their church leaders are doing a poor job, and those individuals are stuck in a childlike, very cut and dry, view of their faith.

I disagree that we are getting off topic, because I think Mary is stuck in that child-line faith.  She is following rules because they are rules.  She hasn't learned to think for herself or deal with situations when life gets messy and the answer isn't super easy.

What I'm really trying to say is, there are examples in this world of people who do not always make good choices in the name of religion.  That doesn't mean that everyone who tries to live their faith is wrong to do so.