Poldark: 1970s Version

[Llywela]

Oh, and eventually the series just stopped without proper conclusion.

I believe that's because they caught up with the books!

 

The 2015 series really is being plugged as 'more faithful' to the books than the 1975 adaptation. That's only true from certain angles, however. Each version makes its own choices.

[Nidratime]

The 2015 series really is being plugged as 'more faithful' to the books than the 1975 adaptation. That's only true from certain angles, however. Each version makes its own choices.

 

 

I don't get that at all.

[Llywela]

I don't get that at all.

What don't you get? I said that although this 2015 adaptation is being advertised as faithful to the books, it isn't entirely - it makes some very significant changes. Both adaptations make changes to the story as told in the books; each version makes different choices about what to keep and what to change, but changes exist in both versions, some more significant than others.

[magdalene]

The big difference for me so far is that the plot moves much faster and of course it looks much better. I re-watched the original a couple of years ago and it sure was showing its age filming wise.

[Milz]

Elizabeth is changed. Book Elizabeth and Jill Townsend's Elizabeth loved Elizabeth more than anyone else (except maybe Geoffrey Charles) and money/wealth/status more than any non-living thing and those were the reasons why she picked Francis over Ross. I'm not getting that from this Elizabeth, unless they do something like harden Elizabeth up after she realizes how horrible it is married to Francis.

 

And Jud and Prudie in the new version are coming off like as mean and lazy, not funny and lazy like they are in the books and 70s series.

[Nidratime]

What don't you get? I said that although this 2015 adaptation is being advertised as faithful to the books, it isn't entirely - it makes some very significant changes.

 

 

I was agreeing that I don't get why this version is purportedly more faithful, not that I didn't understand the comment.

[Llywela]

I was agreeing that I don't get why this version is purportedly more faithful, not that I didn't understand the comment.

Ah, see I evidently didn't get that!

 

I suppose I can see why folks are calling this version more faithful. It does play Ross and Demelza's story more faithfully to the source material than the '75 adaptation, which took certain liberties to make their story racier. But because the new version is so tightly focused on Ross and Demelza, it short-changes all the other characters and storylines, changing them wholesale, to the detriment of the show and story as a whole, because in the source material all the sub-plots are so tightly interwoven, and all those other characters and their POVs bring such depth and nuance to the story, which is very much lacking in this new adaptation. It skims over the surface of most of its sub-plots without ever delving in, and also keeps most of the sub-plots strictly separate, instead of allowing them to weave together the way they do in the books.

 

Horses for courses, I suppose. Each version has its pros and cons! Neither does full justice to the books, yet both manage to bring them to life in their own way.

[Nidratime]

I agree totally with what you say, Llywela. The former show did a great job bringing the secondary characters to life and building the community around Ross and Demelza.

[Llywela]

I rewatched the first two episodes of 1975 Poldark last night - I was interested to see what I'd make of it in light of having now read the books and seen the new version. I was struck again by how the characters just leapt off the screen and drew me into their world - 2015 Poldark tells a lot of its story through dialogue-free visuals, whereas 1975 Poldark told its story through character interaction and conversation. The one is simply gorgeous to watch, but the other brings its characters rather more vividly to life. So many comparisons and contrasts, I'd be here all day if I started to list them!

 

I was also very struck by how much more realistic 1975 Ross's scar was - you'd expect that kind of make-up effect to get better rather than worse with modern techniques!

[skyways]

2015 Poldark tells a lot of its story through dialogue-free visuals

And this EXACTLY where I would ask the producers and makers of the next series to go easy on. More dialogue and conversation and less staring out of the windows or cliffs. Why assume that I know what a character is thinking or even thinking at all when they are just standing and staring? Despite the old production values, I couldn't quite elevate this one over the Ellis version because of the vividness of its characters as well as its knack for dramatic flair. This one lacks that. Edited June 25, 2015 by skyways

[whatsatool]

I keep waiting for Poldark to run into Doc Martin.

[Milz]

After seeing episode 1 and 2 of the new series, the 70s series differed from the books with Ross and Demelza's shot gun marriage only. The rest of it in terms of the timeline and the secondary characters are much more faithful to the books.

[tv echo]

The relationships that really grabbed me were Ross & Demelza, Caroline & S1 Dwight, and Drake & Morwenna.

 

Bit of trivia - Robin Ellis (Ross) and Angharad Rees (Demelza) co-starred again in a 1980 TV movie, The Curse of King Tut's Tomb.  He played Howard Carter and she played Lady Evelyn Herbert:

 

Ellis first appears at 1:06 and Rees first appears at 5:40...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK96GA8V454

[skyways]

WAIT!!! Is that Highclere Castle?? Downton Abbey at 7.43???

Edited June 29, 2015 by skyways

[NumberCruncher]

WAIT!!! Is that Highclere Castle?? Downton Abbey at 7.43???

Yep. It makes total sense too since the Earl of Carnarvon discovered the tomb back in the 20s:

http://www.highclerecastle.co.uk/egyptian-exhibition.html

[LittleIggy]

I can't really enjoy Poldark 2.0 because I keep comparing it to Poldark 1.0. The old series didn't have the production values of the new series but I think it has the new series beat re: casting and acting.

[lucindabelle]

I never liked the way demelzas in old version said she'd take them off for a shilling and later they joke about it. Never knew what to make of it. Was demelzas molested? Had she actually been a prostitute? Was she just boasting? I cringed at the seduction scene.

This was much better. It was also clear he was watching her and thought she was pretty.nand why not? She is,a nd she sings all the time.

[Llywela]

I never liked the way demelzas in old version said she'd take them off for a shilling and later they joke about it. Never knew what to make of it. Was demelzas molested? Had she actually been a prostitute? Was she just boasting? I cringed at the seduction scene.

I always read that scene as braggadocio - a young girl desperate not to be sent home to an abusive father, trying desperately to come across as mature and wordly-wise...and failing miserably.  It was also an attempt by the producers to 'sex up' the character. P15 plays it much closer to the relationship in the books, except that in the books Demelza has four years to grow up from scrawny urchin to tall, willowy young woman - and Ross, who still thinks of her as a child, doesn't really notice how lovely she is becoming until he starts to hear gossip about them, which prompts him to reassess. In P15 Demelza is already older when he brings her home, and the timescale between then and her seduction of him is much shorter, months rather than years.

[lucindabelle]

That makes a lot of sense. I certainly prefer it to then dea that she was molested. I hated the way he sent her home in the old version. This one seems more palatable to me.

[Llywela]

That makes a lot of sense. I certainly prefer it to then dea that she was molested. I hated the way he sent her home in the old version. This one seems more palatable to me.

The Ross-Demelza relationship is certainly a lot more faithful in this version - but Ross doesn't send Demelza home in P75; she runs away back to her father and new stepmother when she realises she is pregnant. It is probably the biggest departure from the source material that P75 makes.

[taanja]

I am vindicated! thank you Previously TV!

I fell in love with Masterpiece Theater many many years ago because of a lovely little series called Poldark. I mean it was EVERYTHING!

Time went by and I basically forgot about it and when I caught this new Poldark -- I kept thinking -- wait! I swear I have seen this before. Isn't this new one a re-make of an older version? But all my people poo-pooed me and said -- NO! You are mis-remembering (They do that to old ones like me ;-) but I came here today and saw that yes! it IS a re-make!

and yes. The difference so far is that in the older version Ross gets Demelza pregnant and they marry because of that.

So... This is based on a book? Or a series of books? Who knew?

[lucindabelle]

I thought he sent her home and she realzied she was pregnant when she got there. She left the next day anyway. She got up from the breakfast table to be sick...

[MrsE]

It isn't a "remake" - it's a completely new adaptation of the novels and is so far sticking much more closely to the source material.  The 70s adaptation did indeed have Demelza up the duff and that was the reason Ross married her.  That doesn't happen in the book - what we see here does.

[Nidratime]

It isn't a "remake" - it's a completely new adaptation of the novels and is so far sticking much more closely to the source material.

 

 

I don't agree that this adaptation is sticking closely to the book since it's leaving so much out about almost every other character, except Ross -- including the fact that, in the book, Demelza joins Ross' household when she's 13 and lives there for years before anything romantic happens between them. Those who bring up the 1970's version, bring up Demelza's pre-marriage pregnancy as one difference. At the same time, it's acknowledged that the the 2015 show writer decided to change Demelza's age and length of time at Nampara so as not to offend current sensibilities. How is one change any different from the other? It's as much a change from the source material as the other. Apparently, BOTH versions made changes to suit their own adaptations. One is not more faithful than the other in my view.

[Milz]

P75 sticks to the book's timeline better and it also shows Demelza's growth from street urchin to competent maid under the Paynter's guidance (what very little they gave, that is.) And it also follows the book's portrayal of  Ross' struggles with opening Wheal Leisure and the beginning of his adversarial relationship with the Warleggan's.

[Llywela]

I don't agree that this adaptation is sticking closely to the book since it's leaving so much out about almost every other character, except Ross -- including the fact that, in the book, Demelza joins Ross' household when she's 13 and lives there for years before anything romantic happens between them. Those who bring up the 1970's version, bring up Demelza's pre-marriage pregnancy as one difference. At the same time, it's acknowledged that the the 2015 show writer decided to change Demelza's age and length of time at Nampara so as not to offend current sensibilities. How is one change any different from the other? It's as much a change from the source material as the other. Apparently, BOTH versions made changes to suit their own adaptations. One is not more faithful than the other in my view.

Hear, hear. This has become a pet bugbear of mine, it gets repeated so often yet isn't really true - it's just PR spin. P15 plays Ross and Demelza's story closer to the source material than P75 did, but it makes many other changes, some of them pretty major. Some of the characters are barely recognisable - Francis, in particular, is pretty much a different person entirely despite living the same life. The sequence of events is changed. Dwight Enys's backstory is changed. Jim and Jinny's story is compressed almost to nothing (and altered so that they get the out-of-wedlock pregnancy that attracted such complains in P75, which is also not part of their story in the books). And I could go on. P15 makes a lot of changes, so it bugs me to hear claims that it is a faithful adaptation. Both adaptations make some significant changes while both also keeping other things faithful to the source material. Neither one can claim to be entirely faithful, or even more faithful than the other. They make different choices, that's all.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Llywela

[abbyzenn]

Maybe because I just watched some of the 70s version, I'm finding I can't get into this - maybe when the story line goes beyond what I've seen I'll be more interested.  Although I must saw this version is so beautifully filmed - the 70s version looks amateurish in comparison.

I've never seen the guy who plays Poldark in anything else but I am IMPRESSED!  He's gorgeous!

The Verity story was much better done in the 70s version - and I thought the actress better suited to the role.

[skyways]

Fair point. I like that this version had Demelza hiding in the cupboard when her father's and brothers were fighting Ross just like the book. That detail impressed as well as other details about the Ross/Demelza story. But you're right almost all the supporting characters' stories suffer in comparison.

[Llywela]

I've been rewatching P75 lately, to refresh my memory. I have the Playback DVDs, which is frustrating because so much content is missing - books 1-2, the same ground covered by P15, were told in 8 50-minute episodes, which were edited down to just 6 hours for the DVD release. Yet in spite of that editing and the 1970s production values, the series remains engrossing. Someone commented in another thread that they thought P15 was more emotional, but I'm not sure that's true. There is loads of emotion in P75. P15 has the benefit of modern cinematography, so is able to visually emphasise emotional moments in a way that wasn't possible with 1970s technology and production values, but just because the emotion is told in a different way doesn't mean it doesn't exist. In fact, there have been many moments I've found much more emotional in P75 than in P15 because I had a greater bond with the characters involved. P15 is only really interested in Ross and Demelza's story and only shows as much of anyone else as is necessary to move their storyline forward; P75 was more of an ensemble, in that sense, even if centred around Ross.

 

Robin Ellis and Angharad Rees were the big stars of the show back then, obviously, and get the lion's share of the attention always, but on rewatch I've been particularly struck (well, all over again, really, because it happened first time round, as well) by Richard Morant's Dwight Enys, who really leaps off the screen. P15 Dwight is extremely bland by comparison, making very little impression at all. I do kind of like that P15 Dwight is blond, since his name means light-haired and all, but I'm afraid P75's original recipe Dr Cutie is always going to be Dwight to me - it's his voice I hear when I read Dwight's lines in the books, even.

[Milz]

After watching Episode 4 of P15, I think P75 did a better job with Verity and Demelza by sticking to the book. Book Verity was sickened with her heartbreak and tired out by caring for Charles that she was at the point of exhaustion and had to rest in order to regain her strength. P75 brought this to life.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Milz

[Nampara]

Robin Ellis and Angharad Rees were the big stars of the show back then, obviously, and get the lion's share of the attention always, but on rewatch I've been particularly struck (well, all over again, really, because it happened first time round, as well) by Richard Morant's Dwight Enys, who really leaps off the screen. P15 Dwight is extremely bland by comparison, making very little impression at all.

 

I agree that the 1975 Dwight Enys was excellent. I still remember the arch way he would intone, "Miss Penvenen." But the 1977 Dr. Enys was a tepid character, and I never really got used to the change. I think the 2015-16 Enys may at least be able to surpass the latter. I think Enys will become a more dynamic figure when Caroline arrives.

[Nidratime]

I think Enys will become a more dynamic figure when Caroline arrives.

 

 

*If* this newer version allows Dwight and Caroline to have a storyline.

[Llywela]

*If* this newer version allows Dwight and Caroline to have a storyline.

That's what worries me. I really love Dwight and Caroline's story and I love both of their characters, so part of me is looking forward to meeting P15's Caroline, and part of me is dreading it, because on season one's form Horsfield's version of this story is unlikely to do either of them justice. I think the new Dwight actor has plenty of potential, the writing just hasn't been there for him so far - which is a crying shame, because the material was all there.

[Milz]

I recall reading that either Caroline calling a doctor to tend to her dog or getting the fish bone stuck in her throat was based on a real event told to Winston Graham by a local physician.

[skyways]

Yes the Keren, Mark-Daniel dramatic episode I was looking forward to in the new version which was a chance to highlight those characters, didn't happen.  It just came and went - no impact except for the murder.

[Nidratime]

Did a scene or scenes happen where Keren talks to Demelza about how she was inspired to leave acting and marry Mark by Demelza's marriage to Ross, thinking she was going to have just as nice a life. I always thought that was delusional, for obvious reasons, but it spoke to Keren's motivation.

[Llywela]

Did a scene or scenes happen where Keren talks to Demelza about how she was inspired to leave acting and marry Mark by Demelza's marriage to Ross, thinking she was going to have just as nice a life. I always thought that was delusional, for obvious reasons, but it spoke to Keren's motivation.

You'll find out soon enough, but nope. P15 offers no insight into Keren's motivations whatsoever. She is presented as a brazen hussy who deserves everything she gets, no insight or nuance whatsoever. Her story is perhaps my biggest disappointment of the season - alongside the character assassination of Francis. Keren and Mark's story, like Jim and Jinny's, exists only in P15 because it is has to be there to facilitate Ross and Demelza's story, and so is presented in the most perfunctory manner possible -  the key plot points are hit, but all the detail and nuance is stripped away. P75, by contrast, told that story really well, allowing every character involved to have a relatable point of view and allowing us to understand all sides of the tragedy as it unfolds. P15's version of that story typifies the weakness of Horsfield's writing. P75 makes changes to the source material, for better or for worse, but those changes are designed to strengthen the overall story. Horsfield, with her intense focus on Ross as romantic hero, weakens the overall story by robbing it of all its breadth, depth and detail.

[Nidratime]

You'll find out soon enough, but nope. P15 offers no insight into Keren's motivations whatsoever.

 

 

That's too bad. I always thought that was a rather heartbreaking story, especially since we know Keren

was escaping harrassment and Mark thought she was in love with him, when what she was really in love with is the romance of Demelza's life and hoping to achieve her own. Of course, that's the reason she ultimately became interested in Dwight, which was more comparable to Demelza's situation, since Dwight was an educated man with far better prospects than Mark. Makes you wonder, if she had met Dwight first, whether she *could've* achieved the same thing, but that would've left Caroline out in the cold.

 

ETA: I don't know whether I'm allowed to say all this here or not so I'm putting it in spoiler tags.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Nidratime

[NumberCruncher]

You'll find out soon enough, but nope. P15 offers no insight into Keren's motivations whatsoever. She is presented as a brazen hussy who deserves everything she gets, no insight or nuance whatsoever. Her story is perhaps my biggest disappointment of the season - alongside the character assassination of Francis. Keren and Mark's story, like Jim and Jinny's, exists only in P15 because it is has to be there to facilitate Ross and Demelza's story, and so is presented in the most perfunctory manner possible -  the key plot points are hit, but all the detail and nuance is stripped away. P75, by contrast, told that story really well, allowing every character involved to have a relatable point of view and allowing us to understand all sides of the tragedy as it unfolds. P15's version of that story typifies the weakness of Horsfield's writing. P75 makes changes to the source material, for better or for worse, but those changes are designed to strengthen the overall story. Horsfield, with her intense focus on Ross as romantic hero, weakens the overall story by robbing it of all its breadth, depth and detail.

I wouldn't say this is entirely true. The first time I watched P15 unspoiled I got the impression that Keren was not in the greatest situation by the way she recoiled from how the other male actor responded to her looking Mark. It appeared to me that she was in a very controlling environment. I think they definitely could have spent more time on her backstory but her wanting out of the acting troupe and using Mark to do it didn't come as a great surprise to me.

I'm genuinely curious what it is about how Mark and Keren's story is presented in P15 that makes it about Ross and Demelza. What I saw of their scenes showed how Mark clearly adored Keren but that she regretted her new life, most likely out of complete ignorance due to her youth. The rest of the storyline involved risky interaction between Dwight and Keren and the resulting tension between Mark and Dwight. The only plot tie I saw with Ross and Demelza was them giving occasional warnings to Dwight and Keren about their behavior, but otherwise...not much else. What am I missing?

[Llywela]

I'm genuinely curious what it is about how Mark and Keren's story is presented in P15 that makes it about Ross and Demelza. What I saw of their scenes showed how Mark clearly adored Keren but that she regretted her new life, most likely out of complete ignorance due to her youth. The rest of the storyline involved risky interaction between Dwight and Keren and the resulting tension between Mark and Dwight. The only plot tie I saw with Ross and Demelza was them giving occasional warnings to Dwight and Keren about their behavior, but otherwise...not much else. What am I missing?

P15 plays Keren as very calculating. It has her making eyes at Dwight on her own wedding day and implies that she deliberately throws herself off a ladder and then overplays a minor injury to get his attention. It spends no time with Mark and Keren as a couple to explore her disappointment and unhappiness in her new life, or Mark's inadequacies as a husband - there's a vague reference to her not liking the house he's prepared for her, but it comes across as petulance rather than genuine disappointment or grievance (the books continue to acknowledge long after Keren's death that the house Mark built was badly designed and shoddily constructed). The timescale is completely up the spout and the emphasis at all times is on Keren's negative qualities. In both the books and P75 Keren is given a lot more depth. She tries to make her marriage work, but finds herself isolated, bored and lonely. Mark works long hours and has no ambition. The house he built for her is dark and damp. She is miserable, and fantasises about the life other men could have provided for her, because marriage was the only form of advancement open to a woman in her situation. Her injury is a genuine accident, not the manipulative contrivance P15 makes of it, and the contrast between Dwight's nice house and the hovel she and Mark live in is stark. We are allowed to understand what Dwight sees in her (he is also very lonely and isolated, in the book, and she takes genuine interest in his work, he is both physically and mentally stimulating to her). And her death is outright murder, no two ways around it, whereas P15 soft-pedals by having her physically attack Mark who fights back and kills her by accident - it victim blames the whole way, really. The characterisation is just really shallow all round.

 

When I say it's about Ross and Demelza's story, what I mean is that because they are the focus of the show, Mark and Keren's sub-plot is not given the time or depth it needs and deserves. It is thrown in perfunctorily, neither character is developed or explored, the whole storyline is as superficial as it can get away with. It is included in the show because it is an integral part of Ross's storyline - his helping Mark escape and all the shenanigans associated with that, Mark's mention of seeing copper in Wheal Grace - and Mark's marriage to Keren is what leads to all that, but is largely skimmed over, got through as quickly as possible - in the same way that Jim and Jinny's story was contracted, taking up as little screen-time as possible, no depth or development to the characters at all, but included because it is a necessary part of Ross's storyline; Jim has to go to prison so Ross can go pull him out. P15 makes Keren very much the villain of her own story, with Mark the innocent victim she cuckolded and then pushed into accidentally killing her, I suspect so that hero Ross won't have to be portrayed as helping a murderer. But by placing the blame on Keren, that sends an even more uncomfortable message. The original story has far more shades of grey. And the way it is told in P75 allows us to connect with all the characters involved in a way that simply doesn't happen in P15.

[skyways]

The book did have Keren physically attack Mark - not like in bare claws just as in, she's trying to defend her self to him and suddenly just went at him. I'm not implying in anyway that she deserved to be killed because I agree with everything else you said. He basically put his large hands around her neck and squeezed.

[Llywela]

The book did have Keren physically attack Mark - not like in bare claws just as in, she's trying to defend her self to him and suddenly just went at him. I'm not implying in anyway that she deserved to be killed because I agree with everything else you said. He basically put his large hands around her neck and squeezed.

I've got the book in front of me now. Keren does not physically attack Mark at all. He hits her hard enough to knock her down, drawing blood. Then she babbles at him, any excuse that will come to mind because she can see murder in his eyes. She tries to make a run for it, ducking under his arm to get out of the house and away, but he grabs her by the hair and drags her back. Then she fights back, scratching, kicking and biting - that isn't an attack, it's self-defence, she's fighting for her life because he's got his hands around her throat. Mark is twice her size, a powerful man who does hard manual labour for a living, enormously strong. He throttles her to death, then can't stand the sight of her lifeless eyes so pushes her face away hard enough to snap her neck. It's horrible.

 

P75 has the confrontation on the cliff path not far from Dwight's house. It removes the worst of the violence, but keeps Keren's attempt at talking her way out of it followed by Mark strangling her.

 

In contrast, P15 starts with Keren trying to lie her way out of it, as in other versions, and the confrontation is in the house as in the book, but Keren is standing by the door with Mark inside the house, so her exit is not blocked. She then instigates the fight by running across the room to start hitting Mark when he won't believe her. He is physically passive until that point, wraps his arms around her to stop her hitting him, and snaps her neck by accident in the process. Do you see how that re-characterises the entire thing, taking responsibility for both the violence and Keren's death away from Mark and placing it instead squarely on Keren's shoulders?

[skyways]

I see what happened. But wasn't there a paragraph where she's trying to talk her way out if Mark's anger and then stopped and came at him instead? I did read that. I don't have the book but if you paste the exact text? I could have sworn I read that.

[Llywela]

I see what happened. But wasn't there a paragraph where she's trying to talk her way out if Mark's anger and then stopped and came at him instead? I did read that. I don't have the book but if you paste the exact text? I could have sworn I read that.

It's a long passage - I'll put it behind a spoiler-cut for length.

'Where've you been, Keren?'

'I?' she said. 'I couldn't sleep. I have had a pain. Oh, Mark, I had such a terrible pain. I cried for you. I thought perhaps you could have made me something warm to send it better. But I was all alone. I didn't know what to do. So I thought maybe a walk would help. If I'd known you was coming home early I'd have come to the mine to meet you.' In the half-dark her sharp eyes caught sight of the bandage on his hand. 'Oh, Mark, you're hurt. There's been an accident. Let me see.'

She moved to him and he struck her in the mouth with his burnt hand, knocked her back across the room. She fell in a small injured heap.

'Ye dirty liar! Ye dirty liar!' His breath was coming in sobs again.

She wept with her hurt. A strange, kittenish, girlish weeping, so far from his own.

He moved over to her. 'Ye've been wi' Enys,' he said in a terrible voice.

She raised her head. 'Dirty yourself! Dirty coward! Striking a woman. Filthy beast! Get away from me! Leave me alone! I'll have you sent to prison. Get out!'

A faint light was coming in from glimmering dawn; it fell on his singed and blackened face. Through the screen of her hands and hair she saw him and at the sight she began to cry out.

'You've been wi' Enys, lying wi' Enys!' His voice climbed in great strides.

'I've not! I've not!' she screamed. 'Liar yourself! I went to see him about my pain! He's a doctor, ain't he? You filthy brute. I was in such pain.'

Even now the quick-thoughted lie gave him pause. Above all things he had always wanted to be fair, to do the right thing by her.

'How long was you there?'

'Oh...over an hour. He gave me something to take an' then had to wait an -'

He said: 'I waited more'n three.'

She knew then that she must go and quickly.

'Mark,' she said desperately, 'it isn't what you think. I swear before God it isn't.' [she continues at length there, I won't type the whole speech]

She went on, babbling at him, throwing words at him, any words, pebbles at a giant, her only defence. She spayed words, keeping his great anger away from her, twisting her brain this way and that. Then when she saw that it was going to avail no longer she sprang, like a cat under his arm, leapt for the door.

He thrust out one great hand and caught her by the hair, hauled her screaming back into his arms.

She fought with all the strength in her power, kicking, biting, scratching. He pushed her nails away from his eyes, accepting her bites as if they were part of him. He pulled the cloth away from her throat, gripped it.

Her screaming stopped. Her eyes started tears, died, grew big.

 

And then she's dead, basically. That's it. That's how it happens, that's the text in the book. At no point does Keren attack Mark physically. She only fights back when he drags her back into the house and starts to strangle her.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Llywela

[skyways]

Ok thanks.

[Nampara]

P15 makes Keren very much the villain of her own story, with Mark the innocent victim she cuckolded and then pushed into accidentally killing her, I suspect so that hero Ross won't have to be portrayed as helping a murderer.

 

I don't agree with the "villain" characterization. To be sure, Keren is portrayed unsympathetically, as well as hazily, but there's no suggestion that she deserved to die or got what was coming to her. I firmly agree about the change to protect Ross's character, however. I suppose the thinking was that whatever the flaws of the 18th century British justice system, helping a straight-up wife killer evade the law just because he's your pal and employee won't look very noble. (NB: This change is a clear indicator of how the dark stuff in series 2 will be handled, I believe.)

[Nidratime]

I firmly agree about the change to protect Ross's character, however. I suppose the thinking was that whatever the flaws of the 18th century British justice system, helping a straight-up wife killer evade the law just because he's your pal and employee won't look very noble. (NB: This change is a clear indicator of how the dark stuff in series 2 will be handled, I believe.)

 

 

Yes, that helps to make Ross' assistance to Mark more noble, more black and white as it were, and less ambiguous as it is in the books and in the 1975 series.

[skyways]

Do you think a better actor or better writing would have pulled off this complexity? Make a clear grey situation appear black and white? and the antagonist sympathetic? I mean I didn't like Mark here, was sympathetic with him at the beginning in the book until the murder and was annoyed Ross helped him escape. I kept hoping someone would find him in France and hurl him back to suffer the consequences. But in this version, with what superficial treatment of the situation we had, I was forced to see it from Ross's view - an innocent man who was pushed to the edge of his limits and accidently kills his wife.

[Nidratime]

Do you think a better actor or better writing would have pulled off this complexity?

 

 

Keep in mind, I haven't seen this episode of the current adaptation yet, but I'm getting the impression it's a matter of the writer/producer choosing to shade things differently such that Mark is less responsible than he was in the books and, therefore, Ross less guilty of helping a man who killed his own wife ... or, overlooking that little fact. I think the original interpretation is so much more richer because it recognizes that Ross (and everyone else in the village) are basically on Mark's side and link arms to protect him, choosing to look the other way. Keren is the outsider here. She wasn't totally innocent of making bad choices but she didn't deserve what she got!

[Llywela]

I firmly agree about the change to protect Ross's character, however. I suppose the thinking was that whatever the flaws of the 18th century British justice system, helping a straight-up wife killer evade the law just because he's your pal and employee won't look very noble. (NB: This change is a clear indicator of how the dark stuff in series 2 will be handled, I believe.)

I agree about this being an indicator of the future.

 

In the source material, a lot of Ross's motivation for helping Mark stems from having just seen what prison did to Jim Carter; Mark is a boyhood friend of his and he doesn't want to see another friend die like that. Ross too regards Keren as an outsider and feels that since she's already dead, nothing more can be done for her, so he directs his energies toward not allowing the law to take another of his friends. All of which is intriguing and understandable, but not noble - P15 is very committed to the idea of Ross as romantic hero, however, whereas in the books he is no such thing, he's a complex and charismatic protagonist, which really isn't the same thing.

 

...aaaand we're drifting way off the subject of P75 now!

Edited July 16, 2015 by Llywela