S08.E08: The Fire Next Time

[Trini]

Barry trusts his instincts during a murder investigation, believing the suspect, despite the overwhelming evidence against him, meanwhile Iris gives Allegra an opportunity to be a mentor.

David McWhirter directed the episode written by Joshua V. Gilbert.

Airdate: 3/23/2022

[scarynikki12]

I like seeing Iris in Boss Mode. She walked the line between disappointment that Allegra didn't do her job and appreciation for the work she did do.

Allegra, if you don't want to do your job you need to quit or ask to change positions. Yes, Vapid Reporter Taylor and Bad Hair Influencer were both annoying but you walked out on your assignment. You could have talked to Lydia after the interview and ended up with a bonus amazing story. 

Taylor was in the right so of course she went Mean Girl and declared war on Allegra so we know not to side with her. At least she likes Iris?

[cambridgeguy]

So apparently Iris didn't tell Barry about what happened at the end of last episode?  Eh, what's the worst thing that could happen, right?

I'm pretty sure openly declaring war on your supervisor is grounds for a conversation with HR, but maybe CC Media is a survival of the fittest type of operation? 

It's always good to see Joe but it's clear they have no idea what to do with him now that he's retired, so his sole function seems to be to give pep talks. 

[Trini]

I wish they had found a way to connect the B-plot to the A-plot; it was kinda jarring switching between the two stories at times. Allegra's story was fine, but I still find it ridiculous that she's supervising anybody, and there's only so much I care about her as a character. But it was really nice to see have a CC Citizen B-plot with Boss Lady Iris.

As for the main plot: The Good: Making it personal for Barry. That doesn't always work, but I think it did here. Plus, at least Barry's Dead Dad is getting some attention, instead of Barry's Dead Mom as usual. But seriously, it was nice to be reminded that Joe and Henry were friends, and that their families knew each other. I wish they'd actually show us some of those childhood memories instead of just talking about it, but I'll take what I can get.

Barry standing his ground and being the Team Leader - love that for him. Also figuring out how to stop the magma eruption by himself. Good to see CSI Barry back too.

This is the most I've liked Cecile lately, because they actually used her the way I've always thought the show should: for legal exposition and family moments -- not awkwardly inserted into STAR labs for empath shenanigans with her whatever-the-plot-needs powers. I had to laugh at her objecting to reading Jaco's emotions because it was "unethical", though. Oh, NOW it's unethical?? Not literally every other instance before this episode? But I might have to move this writer up in my rankings just for pointing that out, though!

Joe pep talk! I almost thought he wasn't going to be in this episode.

The Bad/Weird:  First off - just the fact that they were calling our meta-of-the-week "The Hotness". Even if that was his 'official' name, I don't think it was ever said on the show until now; so it was just weird. Anyway, of all the metas to bring back with more backstory and family, I wouldn't have picked this guy. The actor they cast as his son wasn't believable as a teen, but at least he looked similar enough to Max Adler.

I admit that I'm not Frost's biggest fan, but I continue to confounded as to why they keep putting her in scenes only for her to be completely useless.

I can't put it into words exactly; but I felt some of the writing and dialog here was a little too ... kid friendly? Simplistic?

18 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

So apparently Iris didn't tell Barry about what happened at the end of last episode?  Eh, what's the worst thing that could happen, right?

They're forever doing this - dropping plot crumbs but not following up until too much later - thinking it's an "ongoing" "arc".

Edited March 24, 2022 by Trini

[shantown]

I enjoyed the WestAllen family scene at the end. Cecile’s presence made sense, she’s married to Joe, even if she didn’t share any of the memories being discussed. Better her than Caitlin being forced into another scene for no reason. 

Also Grant looked really good this week. That was my only real takeaway from the episode!

[Primal Slayer]

 

It was an ok episode but the way they set it up you could tell how it was going to go from the start. I never once doubted that whatshisname was guilty of murder and knew he'd get his happy ending. With everything Team Flash has encountered and having de-fanged Frost on their team who was also set up for a crime she didnt commit....the fact that everyone sans Barry was so "he's guilty, duh!" was....lazy writing.

 

22 hours ago, Trini said:

I wish they had found a way to connect the B-plot to the A-plot; it was kinda jarring switching between the two stories at times.

Imagine how easy it would've been for Iris and co. to be doing a story on meta rehabilitation or bad guys gone good and encounter this plot with one of Iris's employees doing the story and Allegra having to tag along to ensure nothing leads back to the Barry being The Flash or whatever...

[Trini]

13 hours ago, shantown said:

Cecile’s presence made sense, she’s married to Joe,

They're still not married, actually. ::harsh sigh::
 

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

Imagine how easy it would've been for Iris and co. to be doing a story on meta rehabilitation or bad guys gone good and encounter this plot with one of Iris's employees doing the story and Allegra having to tag along to ensure nothing leads back to the Barry being The Flash or whatever...

::more sighing::  So easy.

[shantown]

10 hours ago, Trini said:

They're still not married, actually. ::harsh sigh::

I could have sworn they were! Shows how little I've been actually paying attention. I still think the family scene was nice. 

 

12 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

With everything Team Flash has encountered and having de-fanged Frost on their team who was also set up for a crime she didnt commit....the fact that everyone sans Barry was so "he's guilty, duh!" was....lazy writing.

The more I think about this the more it's bugging me. They were all so adamant even though Barry was using his actual brains and CSI skills to say that things didn't add up. Yes, it was a bit of gut feeling too but come on - at least investigate it. It was the only meta activity even happening, what else are you doing sitting around Star Labs?!

I do hope this starts a trend of Barry being smarter and his CSI and Flash skills being put to combined use more. 

[cambridgeguy]

5 hours ago, shantown said:

I could have sworn they were! Shows how little I've been actually paying attention. I still think the family scene was nice. 

Maybe they know better than to have any sort of ceremony.  Ronnie died immediately after he and Caitlin had their quick one.  Barry and Iris's wedding was crashed by alternate universe Nazis.  Aside from filing their taxes and other legal stuff whether or not they filed a marriage license is irrelevant, they're just as devoted to each other as any married couple. 

[tennisgurl]

Even if some of it felt rather on the forced side, especially the dialogue, I liked Barry's story a lot. He actually got to use his skills as a CSI and scientist to figure out that the guy was innocent, and while he was obviously projecting his own history with his dad onto the case, his suspicions that they had the wrong guy did make a lot of logical sense. They did a good job at making this personal without making Barry look like an idiot. It was the rest of Team Flash, who were dismissing him out of hand, who were acting ridiculous. They weren't even trying to think of any other options despite all of the solid evidence Barry was giving them. They even gave Frost, of all people, the stupid "if he was innocent, why did he run?" line before Barry rightfully pointed out that not only is that stupid, but Frost herself just did the exact same damn thing two weeks ago when her boyfriend framed her. I really liked them focusing on Barry's grief surrounding Henry, we've focused so much on his mom (especially with the Speed Force) and while that was also terribly tragic, Henry really hit me harder in the gut. The poor guy was arrested for a crime he didn't commit, lost out on raising his son (even if he did know Joe was taking good care of him) and had his name dragged through the mud, his wife was murdered, then when he finally got out and had his name cleared, was bonding with team flash, was possibly starting a romance, he gets murdered right in front of his son. No wonder its such a tough situation for Barry and his dads birthday is so bittersweet. It was really nice that we got a bit of Joe's friendship with Henry too, and the end where they all reminisced about Henry was a really nice way to end the episode. I would have liked a bit more of West/Allen, but the start of the episode was quite sweet at least. 

The meta of the week was pretty good too, I always like that actor whenever he pops up, and the story about him trying to reconnect with his son was hokey but sweet. I also thought that his powers were interesting, as was the stuff about him accidently setting lava off under the streets. Doesn't make a ton of sense, but it was a more unique way of showing a fire based power and let Barry be smart again. Of course now there's a serial killer around, and as long as he isn't Cicada, I am just fine with it. 

Unfortunately, the Citizen story was a lot less strong. For starters, its bizarre that the two stories never intersected, they are literally both about the struggles that ex cons deal with trying to restart their lives and the flaws in the legal system, yet no one has any comments on the similarities. Not even Iris, who's father in law, who's birthday it is, was also a victim of the flaws in the legal system. The only thing I liked was Iris being an awesome boss lady, letting Allegra know in no uncertain terms that she screwed up by not doing the assignment or being a good supervisor, while also complimenting her on her good work. Allegra, on the other hand, was getting on my nerves. Never mind how ridiculous it is that she is even a supervisor of any kind with her lack of experience, but she's a reporter. Sometimes she's going to have to take articles she isn't that interested in, that's just the way the game is played, its like that with most jobs. Most people just suck it up when they do things they don't really like doing and just do it. Just because she think's something is stupid doesn't mean her reads will, her job is to write what she gets assigned to write and then to pitch new ideas. Why couldn't she have done the piece Iris wanted, and then pitched her idea? Her snooty "I'm too good for this puff piece" attitude was really obnoxious, and giving the person she was interviewing attitude and then just walking away in a huff made her look really unprofessional. Taylor had every right to be pissed at her, but of course she's a total jerk so its alright that Allegra screwed her over, and we don't have to feel bad for her. Although she does like Iris, so she cant be all bad. She knows real talent.

Since when does Cecile think that reading her clients minds is unethical? Isn't how they first met Allegra? Did Iris really not mention her losing track of time to Barry? Really? We're doing this again?

Edited March 26, 2022 by tennisgurl

[thuganomics85]

Considering I can think of several times on this show that someone they thought was the criminal ended up being innocent, the members of Team Flash were getting on my nerves over them doubting Barry throughout all of this.  It's not like Barry was even letting his emotions get the better of him: he was actually doing his day job and gathering up evidence that at least provided some solid reasons to go over things again, but Cecile, Chester, and even freaking Killer Frost were like "Drop it, Barry.  He totally did it!" about it.  I guess this is why they're the sidekicks more or less.  At least Joe believed in him.  And Barry was proven right and helped out Jaco at the end.  Fun bringing back a previous character, but I can't remember if the actor sounded so much like Jack Black last time, because he was giving off those vibes this go around.  Maybe the outfit was just making me think of Tenacious D....

Yay, more reporting stuff.  Allegra gets all huffy over Iris wanting them to review a social media influencer and even if one truly believes there is nothing of value there, that is the name of the game sometimes when it comes to getting readers to come aboard (and maybe check out articles that do matter.)  So, she interviews a former prison buddy instead and while Iris is understandable annoyed by that, she does agree to run with it.  Yeah, I can see why this Taylor character was just a bit pissed over that.  But, of course, they had to take it from understandable anger to "I will destroy you!" real quick, so she's clearly being set-up to be an one-note thorn in Allegra' side.  Granted, as annoying as Allegra was, Taylor really was not treating her like an actual supervisor.  If you're going to be like this Allegra, at least go all in and don't let your subordinate just walk all over you.

Liked all the references and callbacks to Henry here.

Looks like they've got some kind of meta serial killer on their hands who has some form of fire power.  I guess we will see how this all plays out.

[scarynikki12]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Sometimes she's going to have to take articles she isn't that interested in, that's just the way the game is played, its like that with most jobs. Most people just suck it up when they do things they don't really like doing and just do it. Just because she think's something is stupid doesn't mean her reads will, her job is to write what she gets assigned to write and then to pitch new ideas.

Allegra clearly hasn't seen Gilmore Girls because she'd remember that Paris once assigned Rory a crap parking lot pavement story to make being on the paper seem awful and not only did Rory do the story but she turned it into a philosophical piece that was so strong their advisor stepped in and recommended she be given better assignments. Allegra could have done the same with Taylor's piece about the influencer but instead she was Judgey McGee about it and the piece ended up poorly done. She's lucky that she's on a show where Taylor turned her valid frustrations into a Regina George moment.

[Lantern7]

I think . .  .I think this episode was trying to tell us that second chances are totally possible! And that anvils are REALLY heavy!

Also: "I will destroy you." Ugh. I don't think that would work on Superman & Lois. Granted, the Smallville Gazette is run by two people.

On 3/25/2022 at 12:38 AM, Trini said:

They're still not married, actually. ::harsh sigh::

Are you sure Joe and Ceclie aren't married? I don't mean to imply you might be mistaken. I'm thinking that this show screws with the past almost as much as Legends, and their relationship status could have been changed. Also, I thought they were married. It sucks to me that The Flash is set to become the longest running "Arrowverse" series, yet I've been DVRing it while watching Survivor and taking my time to watch the episodes.

[Diapason Untuned]

The CCC side of the story hit me differently this week. Allegra's behaviour was pretty unprofessional, but God help me, I agreed with her during some parts of it. Like, interviewing that influencer wasn't a two woman job, that was just a waste of time. I know why Iris did it that way, but it still was. 

When Taylor was talking about how "bold" the subject was for dropping out of Cornell to be an influencer, my eyes just about rolled out of their skull. I wouldn't have done it, but I could understand the impulse to just go "Nope" with that.

Taylor definitely had a point there too, even if she took it too far at the end. when Iris came over to ask who things were going and Allegra just chimed in, despite not having done the actual assigned work, that shit would have pissed me right off. I've actually seen stuff like that done and it's never pleasant.

I also really liked Iris this week, first time she's really felt like a boss to me. The show is doing a good job showing her growing into her role.

20 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

For starters, its bizarre that the two stories never intersected

In this case, the parallel between Barry and Allegra who both went off reservation because they had a strong gut feeling made up for it.

 

Quote

Since when does Cecile think that reading her clients minds is unethical? Isn't how they first met Allegra? 

I can't recall, but did Cecile read clients emotions when there wasn't a present threat to human life?

[Trini]

On 3/25/2022 at 9:09 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Considering I can think of several times on this show that someone they thought was the criminal ended up being innocent, the members of Team Flash were getting on my nerves over them doubting Barry throughout all of this.  It's not like Barry was even letting his emotions get the better of him: he was actually doing his day job and gathering up evidence that at least provided some solid reasons to go over things again, but Cecile, Chester, and even freaking Killer Frost were like "Drop it, Barry.  He totally did it!" about it. 

 

It's dumb for those reasons, but then it's also a tired storyline in this show's eighth season. In comments elsewhere, I've seen it suggested that it would have made a little more sense if they had Frost advocating for 'The Hotness' since she has also been in a similar situation. I mean, if you're going to have a "reformed" criminal on the Team, at least use them for plots like this.

 

On 3/26/2022 at 1:39 AM, Lantern7 said:

Are you sure Joe and Ceclie aren't married? I don't mean to imply you might be mistaken. I'm thinking that this show screws with the past almost as much as Legends, and their relationship status could have been changed....

They're not; and the show even brought up the fact in the Season 7 finale. It's just doubly annoying to me because they acknowledge it but won't do anything about it.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Trini
oy, grammar