S01.E08: The End of the Beginning

[nodorothyparker]

Streaming 02.25.22

Quote

Olaf and Kåre gather their forces to invade Kattegat. Palace intrigue over control of England's throne results in an unexpected turn of events.

 

[magdalene]

Godwin is a piece of work and I say this admiringly. It took me way too long to realize who he is historically. Duh!

Obviously I did not enjoy the human sacrifice - and neither did Leif going by his facial expression.  Freydis  was all aglow about it though, she truly swallowed all the cool-aid.

I was very upset when Liv died. I thought she and Leif made an adorable couple and they were so devoted to each other.

I didn't understand why Freydis helped the injured Harald at the end.  As a viewer I knew that Harald didn't actually double-cross the Kattegat crew but Freydis didn't know that? They make an attractive pair but I don't see them lasting. She is a bit of a fanatic who would never align herself with Harald's ambitions - and he does have them, no matter what he said to Freydis in bed.

I know they have already filmed a second season, so we will get that.  But I hope the ratings are good enough for multiple seasons. There is so much interesting story left to tell.

[Straycat80]

I really enjoyed this series even though it was historically inaccurate. I’m surprised they killed off so many of the characters though. I cheered when Jarl Kore got killed. I’m most sad that Liv got killed, I guess this will affect Leif badly and he’ll become more of a warrior next season judging by how he was covered in blood and screaming at the end. 
I didn’t really care about Freydis’ story, she was no Lagertha.  I liked Liv and Queen Emma better. I’m looking forward to the next season to see King Canute and who will now rule Kattegut. 

[Kabota]

19 hours ago, magdalene said:

I didn't understand why Freydis helped the injured Harald at the end.  As a viewer I knew that Harald didn't actually double-cross the Kattegat crew but Freydis didn't know that? They make an attractive pair but I don't see them lasting. She is a bit of a fanatic who would never align herself with Harald's ambitions - and he does have them, no matter what he said to Freydis in bed.

I know they have already filmed a second season, so we will get that.  But I hope the ratings are good enough for multiple seasons. There is so much interesting story left to tell.

Yeah, I wondered about this too. Even if Freydis were to believe Harald didn't intend to betray them, it can be argued that he should've seen through/never trusted Olaf, and either way, is responsible for the division of Kattegat's defenses -- so to some extent the fall. Freydis will never forgive him for that. It has to be something about debt payment or having him indebted to her for future assistance? I think their relationship is probably supposed to be more of a metaphor, though I grew to like them together well enough. 

Each of the main three protagonists went through a kind of loss of innocence, even if they are not conventionally innocent. Freydis will now fully take on the mantel of "The Last," trying to unite and protect the followers of the old ways. Harald is going to have to be as lethal in his politics as he is on the battlefield in his quest to be king. And it looks like Leif is going to give into his inner berserker for a bit, but how that leads him to exploration...we shall see. So many places these three can go. Literally.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Kabota

[jackjill89]

On 3/2/2022 at 1:37 AM, magdalene said:

Godwin is a piece of work and I say this admiringly. It took me way too long to realize who he is historically. Duh!

Obviously I did not enjoy the human sacrifice - and neither did Leif going by his facial expression.  Freydis  was all aglow about it though, she truly swallowed all the cool-aid.

I was very upset when Liv died. I thought she and Leif made an adorable couple and they were so devoted to each other.

I didn't understand why Freydis helped the injured Harald at the end.  As a viewer I knew that Harald didn't actually double-cross the Kattegat crew but Freydis didn't know that? They make an attractive pair but I don't see them lasting. She is a bit of a fanatic who would never align herself with Harald's ambitions - and he does have them, no matter what he said to Freydis in bed.

I know they have already filmed a second season, so we will get that.  But I hope the ratings are good enough for multiple seasons. There is so much interesting story left to tell.

Who is Godwin historically? My historical knowledge of this time is poor.

[Kabota]

1 hour ago, jackjill89 said:

Who is Godwin historically? My historical knowledge of this time is poor.

I assume he is the father of Harold Godwinson, but the show might combine characters or change the relationship. There are links in the history topic which answer this question in greater context.

[magdalene]

5 hours ago, jackjill89 said:

Who is Godwin historically? My historical knowledge of this time is poor.

Like Kabota says I think he is meant to be the father of Harold Godwinson.  I don't want to go into too many details because most likely some of this may matter in the show later on but Godwinson, our Harald Sigurdson and  William the Conqueror  are all associated with 1066 - to put it as vaguely as possible.

[jackjill89]

Thank you both! 

 

[Haleth]

I ended up enjoying this more than I expected to and look forward to the next season.  I'm sort of obsessed with Cnut and Emma, one of Britain's first power couples.  

Of course David Oakes played a double crossing, self serving villain.  When has he not played a double crossing, self serving villain?  Should have seen it coming.  (It's my theory that actors who always play delicious villains must IRL be the nicest people in the world.  Oakes, Rufus Sewell, Alan Rickman, etc.)

I'm less invested in the events in Denmark but I'm glad Freydis killed the psycho zealot.

[LadyIrony]

I think Leif will convert to Christianity but will want to practice it properly. He was not comfortable with the sacrifice nor does he appear comfortable by the Christian Vikings who are Christian in title only. 

It seems everyone knows/knew Edmund better than Edmund himself. Using his impetuousness against him. A new King engaging in a horse race after his country has been taken from him because he lost an important battle by being impetuous. He has learned nothing. 

Why wouldn't the Vikings defending the fort set the barricades on fire as the other Vikings attacked? Standing out front in the open the way they were seemed like a waste of men.

So what I liked about the Series. 

* Looks good and good looking cast where applicable. 

* Good acting. Decent scripts. 

* Pays dues to lineage of former series. 

What I don't like; 

* The Earl Haakon feels like a nod to modern SJW tendencies. The way she acted also made me think more of a modern NY woman addressing a street gang than an Earl addressing her people. 

* Shield Maidens. They just weren't that common. 

* Like the previous series the English are being portrayed as incompetent and militarily useless. This negates the Viking victory to a large degree. 

* I wasn't interested in the Uppsalla story line.

 * Freydis is a Viking Mary Sue. Quite tiresome. 

Final thoughts; 

I seem to be more interested in Queen Emma and events in England than in Denmark. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by LadyIrony

[peridot]

Forkbeard and Emma threw me, I thought he gave in to the Queen of Denmark's demands.  Godwin really is a slick bastard, he knows just what people want to hear.  When QoD invited him for a drink, I thought she would end up seducing him.  The shot of Forkbeard and his grandsons were badass, though we have to ignore how they managed to get to Kattegat in time.

Too bad the shit-heel brother didn't die with the psychotic Jarl.  All of those people dead, and for what?

[LadyIrony]

19 hours ago, peridot said:

Forkbeard and Emma threw me, I thought he gave in to the Queen of Denmark's demands.  Godwin really is a slick bastard, he knows just what people want to hear.  When QoD invited him for a drink, I thought she would end up seducing him.  The shot of Forkbeard and his grandsons were badass, though we have to ignore how they managed to get to Kattegat in time.

Too bad the shit-heel brother didn't die with the psychotic Jarl.  All of those people dead, and for what?

The Queen of Denmark does not appear to be very popular with anyone. I can see Queen Emma ruling the roost and QOD losing her head if she is not careful. 

They do seem to act like running back and forward from Denmark to England is like a drive to the local shops. I did some Googling and it would have taken 3-6 days depending on weather to sail in one of their ships back then. Given the roughness of the seas and that 3-6 days on a relatively small boat would not be a great time, I find it a little difficult to believe they would be making that journey so regularly especially at the Regal level. Seems like a high risk just to play silly games. 

I don't like Olaf either he is clearly out of his depth and seems to exist for some kind of comic relief. The show is like Game of Thrones, I am waiting for the dragons next season. 

[The Kings Foot]

I thought it ended oddly though.  Like a closing shot of  Forkbeard's  fleet sailing would've been the dramatic ending.  The last 2 minutes seemed like it shouldve been an episode in itself. 

[brisbydog]

Binged the whole thing yesterday, right after I did the final season of the Last Kingdom. This did not compare well

The Good:

Emma of Normandy

Cnut

Godwin

Edmund Ironside

Moderately interesting:

Forkbeard

Olaf

Tedious:

Erik

Freydis

Everybody in Kattagat

[LadyIrony]

On 3/15/2022 at 5:10 AM, brisbydog said:

Binged the whole thing yesterday, right after I did the final season of the Last Kingdom. This did not compare well

The Good:

Emma of Normandy

Cnut

Godwin

Edmund Ironside

Moderately interesting:

Forkbeard

Olaf

Tedious:

Erik

Freydis

Everybody in Kattagat

It is reminding me of another recent show I watched "1883" where the main character was the most tedious one. I know Freydis is more of a Co- Main character but she is boring. I find Kattagat to be boring as well. 

I am more interested in events in England although it is looking a lot like Game of Thrones. 

[Kabota]

On 3/17/2022 at 7:24 AM, LadyIrony said:

It is reminding me of another recent show I watched "1883" where the main character was the most tedious one. I know Freydis is more of a Co- Main character but she is boring. I find Kattagat to be boring as well. 

 

I think I wasn't quite as bothered by Freydis as a "chosen one," as I otherwise might have been, because I'd recently watched "1883" too...Wow, the Mary Sue was painfully strong in that one.

As far as Kattegat goes,

Spoiler

the showrunner has basically said that Kattegat will not be a major setting in season 2

so hopefully some of the characters' wild, historic adventures in other parts of the world will be a greater part of the plot. The England of Canute, Godwin, Forkbeard, and Emma is the stage for seasoned politicians and manipulators. The Kattegat crew is going to have to pick up their game to compete with that. 

Edited March 22, 2022 by Kabota

[LadyIrony]

15 hours ago, Kabota said:

I think I wasn't quite as bothered by Freydis as a "chosen one," as I otherwise might have been, because I'd recently watched "1883" too...Wow, the Mary Sue was painfully strong in that one.

As far as Kattegat goes,

  Reveal spoiler

the showrunner has basically said that Kattegat will not be a major setting in season 2

so hopefully some of the characters' wild, historic adventures in other parts of the world will be a greater part of the plot. The England of Canute, Godwin, Forkbeard, and Emma is the stage for seasoned politicians and manipulators. The Kattegat crew is going to have to pick up their game to compete with that. 

Spoiler

 

I could see we were meant to see Freydis as "special" but yes just like Rodeo Barbie on 1883 I couldn't understand why! She was a little more toned down though but just a little. 

Kattegat looks like it will need a complete overhaul. It has lost it's leader and Govt. many of it's people. I see Queen Freydis on the horizon!  And the division between Christian Viking and Pagan will become a further problem. Season 2 will be interesting to watch although I have given up on the show being in any way realistic. Which is a mistake in itself, it is just a TV show.

 

 

Edited March 23, 2022 by LadyIrony

[iMonrey]

I mostly enjoyed this, although it stumbled midway through. After finishing The Last Kingdom, it felt like a natural progression to skip to the Cnut era. Unfortunately, I was bored out of my skull with the whole Freydis subplot. It felt very much like it was tacked on in order to connect this series to the original. It didn't make any sense either, plot-wise. Freydis was supposed to be Cnut's hostage until Leif paid her debt for killing that guy. And then Jarl Haakon just let her run off on some kind of vision quest.

I also thought the actors who played Harald and Leif looked too similar and I got them mixed up a few times. I've even seen both of them in other things so I'm familiar with them and still had trouble.

Was more interested in the goings-on in England than in Norway, by far. So it was kind of hit or miss, overall. I agree with The Kings Foot this was a strange way to end it, with Leif yelling into the camera.

Quote

Of course David Oakes played a double crossing, self serving villain.  When has he not played a double crossing, self serving villain?

He wasn't a villain in Victoria, but in everything else I've seen him in, yeah.

[Haleth]

41 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

He wasn't a villain in Victoria, but in everything else I've seen him in, yeah.

This is true. He was charming in Victoria. 

[millennium]

On 3/17/2022 at 7:24 AM, LadyIrony said:

It is reminding me of another recent show I watched "1883" where the main character was the most tedious one. I know Freydis is more of a Co- Main character but she is boring.

ValhallaBarbie?

[millennium]

On 3/10/2022 at 5:00 PM, LadyIrony said:

I don't like Olaf either he is clearly out of his depth and seems to exist for some kind of comic relief. The show is like Game of Thrones, I am waiting for the dragons next season. 

King Orson Welles is unlikeable yet a strong character.   Ditto for Jarl Kare, very menacing.   Regarding the latter I am amazed they killed him off so soon.  I was truly hoping that after Freydis took Kare's head, she would attempt to hold it aloft in victory, only to by stymied by his lack of hair. 

I liked this show.   I stopped watching Vikings after they killed off Travis Fimmel.   I disliked his sons with Queen Aslaug, never liked Floki, and HATED the Ivar character, so I just quit.   It was nice to return to Kattegat with a new cast of genetically blessed people.   Jarl Hakkon was an okay character.    It felt like historical gymnastics the way tried to explain how a Black woman is leader of Kattegat but that's how shows are now, so whatever. 

Pollyanna McIntosh made Queen Aelgifu as likeable as Jadis in The Walking Dead.  🙄

[LadyIrony]

On 4/22/2022 at 2:49 PM, millennium said:

King Orson Welles is unlikeable yet a strong character.   Ditto for Jarl Kare, very menacing.   Regarding the latter I am amazed they killed him off so soon.  I was truly hoping that after Freydis took Kare's head, she would attempt to hold it aloft in victory, only to by stymied by his lack of hair. 

I liked this show.   I stopped watching Vikings after they killed off Travis Fimmel.   I disliked his sons with Queen Aslaug, never liked Floki, and HATED the Ivar character, so I just quit.   It was nice to return to Kattegat with a new cast of genetically blessed people.   Jarl Hakkon was an okay character.    It felt like historical gymnastics the way tried to explain how a Black woman is leader of Kattegat but that's how shows are now, so whatever. 

Pollyanna McIntosh made Queen Aelgifu as likeable as Jadis in The Walking Dead.  🙄

I also quit Vikings after Ragnar was killed off. None of his sons had the charisma to carry the show and Aslaug was more of a supporting character. I hated Ivar as well, he didn't come off as a leader to me which is where I think they were heading with him. 

I cringed so hard when I saw Jarl Hakkon! I also noticed Asians and other races in the town. I am not sure if the Vikings ever went far enough to gather those people themselves. And again we have the army of elite Shield Maidens. Ho hum. 

I'll still watch the next season but if it starts going even more Woke, like Vikings did than I could be out.

 

[SoWindsor]

I loved this series and was not expecting to!

i was a bit confused with all the double crossing in the finale though. Harald gave Leif a hint about the attack but Olaf planned something else. What was it exactly? Where were the split battles with the Kattaket warriors?

My favorite character is Emma and I’m happy she succeeded. So I guess Forkbeard did trust her. I missed seeing king Canute but clearly his absence was needed. 

why exactly was forkbeard so mad at Olaf for winning Kattaket? Didn’t they want Olaf to be king or Norway— though I guess Canute wanted it to be Harold.

i really enjoyed the game of thrones aspect to this with the double crossing and how it keeps changing who’s on top. And Godwin makes a perfect Baelish.

Still bitter about the GOT ending though!

And my goodness the actor who plays Harold is gorgeous— he absolutely could’ve made a great jon snow.

[kassa]

On 4/23/2022 at 5:02 PM, LadyIrony said:

I also noticed Asians and other races in the town. I am not sure if the Vikings ever went far enough to gather those people themselves.

They sailed and traded extensively throughout Europe, Western Asia, and the Mediterranean. Remember that Emma herself is a granddaughter of Rollo, who took over Normandy a hundred years prior.

They traded slaves extensively (especially Eastern Europeans). They may not have gone deep into Asia or Africa, but that doesn't mean they didn't do business with Asian or African slave traders in other ports.  

I will be happy if they focus more on the English court next time. Cnut is great, as are Emma and Godwin. It's nice to see smart attractive people on my tv. 

[ahpny]

On 3/2/2022 at 2:37 AM, magdalene said:

Godwin is a piece of work and I say this admiringly.

I found it hard to keep track of whose side he was on and why he did what he did. He first seemed aligned with Edmond, though as it turned out, not so much. And why did Godwin offer Edmond a opportunity to speak to the nobles as Edmond was dying? With just a few words, Edmond could have implicated Godwin as setting up Edmond's "accident" and stabbing him afterwards. The words of a dying man, then and now, are afforded extra credibility. Before that, Godwin had seemed aligned with Emma with some mutually-beneficial understanding. But given that Emma seemed mighty pissed that Godwin was involved in Edmond's "accident," how could she trust him after that? Perhaps Emma doesn't fully trust Godwin, but went with him as a least bad option, and repressed whatever anger she had at Godwin's complicity in Edmond's "accident." Clearly Emma was not pissed enough at Godwin to avoid conspiring with him against Ælfgifu (Queen of Demark) in a deeper plot. Also, I get that being Queen of England is really fun, but was the prospect of returning to Normandy with her brother so awful that she'd risk her life in a conspiracy with Godwin? Though more than one speech mentioned how she was just "property" in Normandy, but I still don't get it.

Edited December 18, 2022 by ahpny

[magdalene]

5 hours ago, ahpny said:

I found it hard to keep track of whose side he was on and why he did what he did. He first seemed aligned with Edmond, though as it turned out, not so much. And why did Godwin offer Edmond a opportunity to speak to the nobles as Edmond was dying? With just a few words, Edmond could have implicated Godwin as setting up Edmond's "accident" and stabbing him afterwards. The words of a dying man, then and now, are afforded extra credibility. Before that, Godwin had seemed aligned with Emma with some mutually-beneficial understanding. But given that Emma seemed mighty pissed that Godwin was involved in Edmond's "accident," how could she trust him after that? Perhaps Emma doesn't fully trust Godwin, but went with him as a least bad option, and repressed whatever anger she had at Godwin's complicity in Edmond's "accident." Clearly Emma was not pissed enough at Godwin to avoid conspiring with him against Ælfgifu (Queen of Demark) in a deeper plot. Also, I get that being Queen of England is really fun, but was the prospect of returning to Normandy with her brother so awful that she'd risk her life in a conspiracy with Godwin? Though more than one speech mentioned how she was just "property" in Normandy, but I still don't get it.

Like most of these characters Godwin is based on an actual historical person.  When you know who that is you can find much to admire. The character is always trying to figure out the angles and who to ally with and who to backstab to get ahead in these volatile and dangerous times.  He and Emma have one thing in common, they are always going to be the smartest people in a room.  As is King Cnute.  Show Edmund is kind of a rash moron who endangers the much smarter people in his orbit with his behavior, so not surprising that he gets killed.  If I remember right real life Edmund didn't get murdered but died young from natural causes.

Laughs. If I wanted to be friends with a character on this show I would choose the show version of Leif Erickson - competent, loyal and not a back stabber.