Our Flag Means Death - General Discussion

[AnimeMania]

Filming for Season 2 is complete.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CmGgicXPgB8/

[millennium]

Just watched the first episode and don't get the love for this show.   I found it terrifically boring.   Didn't SNL do this better years ago aboard the Raging Queen?

The Stede Bonnet character strongly reminds me of

 

Think I'd rather walk the plank than continue on.

[P2C2E]

On 1/27/2023 at 4:06 PM, millennium said:

Just watched the first episode and don't get the love for this show.   I found it terrifically boring.   Didn't SNL do this better years ago aboard the Raging Queen?

The Stede Bonnet character strongly reminds me of

 

Think I'd rather walk the plank than continue on.

Obviously not every show is for everyone, so I can't say that you will like it if you continue.

What I will say is that I watched the first episode and thought it was odd and boring and not funny at all. But so many of my friends were posting about how they loved it that I decided to keep watching. And I fell in love. 

I think it's hilarious, heartwarming, and full of unabashedly queer love that makes my heart sing. And on rewatch, I loved the first episode.

So, it may not be worth it to you to continue. But it was to me.

[cleo]

Just finished. Pretty much loved this show from the first moments of the pilot. Just so creative and warm and funny.

I was relieved it was renewed bc I wasn't sure how well it did. No one I know watches it. I'm afraid a lot of people wouldn't give it a chance bc the premise sounds so weird.

A couple things made me cringe, but I am for sure hyper sensitive- some of the stuff with animals, like the wild cat as pet (I just think it's really destructive for people to treat wild animals as pets and it does happen) and also stuff like the fight they wanted the turtle and scorpion to have.

I know the show is far removed from reality but I just have an immediate reaction to stuff like that.

Similarly when they throw stuff in the water, I just instinctively cringe.

But it's just a show, so I can move past it.

Really liked Frenchie, Jim, and Oluwande, as well as Buttons. 

Don't like the Swede- I know the actor from other roles and it's all I see.

Was thrilled to see Kristen Johnson, I really like her. Actually doing a rewatch of 3rd Rock now.

Looking forward to season 2, and I hope this show gets more notice.

Edited February 12, 2023 by cleo

[paramitch]

On 1/27/2023 at 4:06 PM, millennium said:

Just watched the first episode and don't get the love for this show.   I found it terrifically boring.   Didn't SNL do this better years ago aboard the Raging Queen?

The Stede Bonnet character strongly reminds me of

 

Think I'd rather walk the plank than continue on.

I love the first episode, but the show also doesn't really kick into high gear until episode 3, with the entrance of an incredibly charismatic pivotal character who is basically a dual protagonist.

It may just not be your cup of tea, but I would also definitely say you can't judge an entire season by a (very short) pilot episode. If you are truly curious about "what the heck are these people raving about?" I'd ask you to hang in there through episode 3. You'll definitely know by then if the show is for you.

Edited February 12, 2023 by paramitch

[nodorothyparker]

It's such a weirdly gentle oddball of a show, given the subject matter, that I think it took a couple of episodes for me to really get sucked into it too. A lot of its humor early on isn't the laugh out loud variety, but the introduction of what is essentially the second lead really gives it the pathos that it is clearly aiming for from the outset with Stede's life of quiet desperation that drove him to basically cosplay being a pirate in the first place.

[RedHawk]

I enjoyed the show when I first watched this past week, though yes, I wasn't quite on board (pun intended) until the third episode. Then boy did it pick up! Afterward I came and read these posts, and that some had re-watched a few times. I didn't think I would but then certain scenes stayed in my mind and I wanted to see them again. So now I've watched the entire season through a second time, and a few episodes a third time! There's so much detail, I love catching things I first missed. For example, when Lucius is about to have his finger amputated, he wakes up with a start and asks "Am I dead?" and Black Pete says, "No, Baby". After Lucius starts screaming Black Pete again calls him "Baby". I did not catch that until the third time I watched. 

And another early "tell" about Blackbeard's feelings for Stede. After they pull off the lighthouse ruse, they are resting against the mast, Blackbeard with his back against it and Stede leaning back into Blackbeard's chest being held in his arms. They look so comfortable and content. I didn't really "see" it until rewatch.

Edited February 13, 2023 by RedHawk

[RedHawk]

So I can't edit my post above but apparently I mentally fan-fic'd the "Stede being held in Ed's arms" scene I described. On re-watch I see that instead it was more of a big hug from behind when they were all celebrating that the lighthouse ruse worked.

When I first read some of these posts and that several had re-watched more than once, I thought "Wow, they're into it." Now that's ME -- I've watched the entire series 3 times through. I love looking for the small details, like how in the Gentleman Pirate episode we see Lucius figure out that Jackie's dagger (the one she is holding up to Stede's nose) is what Jim was after, and he pickpockets it as he squeezes by her when they leave Jackie's place. 

Cannot wait for Season 2.

[BetterButter]

 

[cleo]

Man I adore this show. So excited it's coming back and I'm about to do a rewatch. I wish more people were watching.

I almost like it better than WWDITS.

[AnimeMania]

Our Flag Means Death Season 2 is returning sometime in October       
Here are some photos:

Minnie Driver guest stars as a real-life Irish pirate named Anne Bonny.

Edited August 24, 2023 by AnimeMania

[ofmd]

Finally, signs of life! Now, how about a trailer, hmmmm?

Spoiler

Stede sending a message in a bottle is just so him! Also, I assume they're going to China, what with a whole Chinese army on set.

Also, queer women pirates... finally!!

I'm excited!!

Edited August 25, 2023 by ofmd

[AnimeMania]

[AnimeMania]

[angora]

Yes!!! I have been hyperfixating *hard* since the first look photos came out. Everything looks so amazing! October 5th, here we go!!!

[ofmd]

Season 2 Teaser Trailer: Easy to Miss Details (teaser with annotations)

There will be only 8 episodes this season, the first one had 10.

Edited August 31, 2023 by ofmd

[angora]

More promo stills, from Entertainment Weekly.

Can't wait!

 

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by angora

[AnimeMania]

[ofmd]

I'm not excited at all!

"We're on a break!"

Edited September 14, 2023 by ofmd

[angora]

I just finished rewatching season 1, so I'm utterly content, despite being heartbroken all over again and wondering if I maybe need to watch it one more time while I wait for season 2 to premiere.

In this thread, we've of course talked a lot about the show's incredible LGBTQ representation, and we've touched on depictions of gender, race, class, and masculinity. But I wanted to look at something that really stood out to me on rewatch: its neurodivergent coding.

This year, I've been coming to the long-overdue realization that I'm most likely autistic and ADHD, and that's gone hand in hand with realizing just how many of the shows that I've desperately loved over the years--*my* shows, the ones that completely stole my heart--have Big Neurodivergent Energy. (See also, Pushing Daisies, Doctor Who, Community, Parks and Rec, etc.) In the case of Our Flag Meets Death, there's arguably an ND reading for most of the major characters; "found family of misfits" shows tend to be like that. But it's especially evident to me, and poignant, with Stede and Ed. (IMHO, Stede is more noticeably autistic, while Ed is more noticeably ADHD, but they both have traits of both.)

I'll start with Stede. Deeply unhappy with the life he's "supposed" to have, he takes extreme measures to change that, going against everything society says a person of his class ought to do. I find there's something deeply neurodivergent about defying societal convention to do what your mind/body/soul *needs* you to do, because you can't stand what you're supposed to do a second longer. But even as he radically changes his life and buys a pirate ship, he fills it with familiar, comforting things: his favorite books, his extensive wardrobe(s), copious jars of the marmalade he loves. First, this shows that familiarity and routine soothe him. Second, it's an outward demonstration that he's not being the sort of pirate he's "supposed" to be, either. With the Gentleman Pirate, he's creating his own vision for what he wants piracy to look like, from his "talk it through as a crew" mantra to "plundering" potted plants from fishing boats.

He doesn't really "fit in" or understand the unwritten rules anywhere. He's out of his depth as a pirate, of course, and many who meet him think he's "soft" or an easy mark. But he also didn't fit in as a wealthy landowner--that's part of the reason he was so unhappy. At the party on the French aristocrats' boat, he admits that he's never done well at these types of social occasions. With his crew, he can be overly blunt and misses the obvious, such as being blindsided by the notion that the crew would be considering mutiny or gleefully confessing he "didn't want to give" Jim his petrified orange when they tell him he can keep it. However, he fares better on the Revenge than back in Barbados, because he's surrounded by people who come to care about him. Even if they don't always understand him, the crew likes him and tries to help him navigate situations he isn't always prepared for.

Onto Ed. At the start of his time on the show, he feels bored and unchallenged to the point of depression, so much so that he muses on the idea of dying just because it's something he hasn't done yet (classic ADHD "bored-out," which is burnout due to chronic understimulation.) He's incredibly good at being a pirate, but he's gotten into a rut and feels trapped in the part he plays so well. When he hears about Stede Bonnet, the Gentleman Pirate, he's intrigued because it's something *new.* It's something different. And when he comes aboard the Revenge, that slides into full-blown fascination. He's delighted by all of Stede's knickknacks and eccentricities, and he runs around the ship taking note of *everything.* Izzy scolds him like an inattentive child, telling him to focus, not realizing that Ed's enthusiastic attention to detail has already noticed everything he needs to keep them safe from the Spanish. (When his plan falls apart, it's because of a tiny, dumb, distracted mistake--he forgot what day it is.)

Unlike Stede, Ed is pretty good at fitting in, and he's perhaps too good at playing the part people expect of him (in the autistic community, this is known as masking.) In addition to aggravating his boredom, this also puts him in a very vulnerable position. Because he's generally good at wearing a persona, it hits him harder on the occasions when he *doesn't* fit in, like as he slowly starts to realize that the French aristocrats are laughing at him. It also means that, as he gradually feels freer to open up and be his true self, he takes it much more personally when people don't accept that--first when Stede appears to abandon him, and again when Izzy berates him for his emotional reaction. (Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria, intense reactions to feelings of rejection, is common among ADHDers.)

Of course, all these things are also influenced by the characters' sexuality, masculinity, class, and race, but I really enjoy exploring their story through this neurodivergent lens too. In this way, I find it even more beautiful that Ed *loves* the quirks that everyone else thinks is odd in Stede, that Stede meets someone who values him 100% for himself and that Ed meets someone who helps him start to drop his mask. From almost the moment they meet, despite many differences between them, their minds operate on a similar wavelength, allowing them to see and appreciate things that others don't. It allows them to come up with outside-the-box solutions together, like quickly rigging up their "lighthouse" to fool the Spanish out of stuff they find in Stede's cabin, and it means their love story includes delightfully oddball moments like riffing together on Ed's hypothetical restaurant. As with so many aspects of the show, it's just wonderfully inclusive and complex, and I love it so damn much.

And just for fun, here's a supercut that made me smile:

 

[AnimeMania]

Our Flag Means Death Season 2       October 5, 2023      Max  

Episodes 1-3        Titles and Descriptions   

Spoiler

S02.E01: Impossible Birds

While Stede adjusts to his new normal, a heartbroken Blackbeard fills the void with daily raids – sparking concern amongst Izzy and the crew.

S02.E02: Red Flags

Aboard Zheng's ship, Stede, Olu, and Black Pete have surprising revelations while Blackbeard’s crew plots their revenge.

S02.E03: The Innkeeper

While the Revenge crew gleefully reunites under Zheng’s reign, Stede attempts to bring back Blackbeard, who must face his own difficult truths.

Edited October 5, 2023 by AnimeMania

[ofmd]

They're baaaack!

Women pirates! One straight from Deadloch! (She fits in nicely.)

That Ricky character felt unnecessary.

The Suede living his best life!

But I can't believe we haven't seen

Spoiler

Lucius

... yet, I hope. Would be such a bummer

Spoiler

if he was really gone

.

And the doom and gloom for BB was expected.

Interesting development with Izzy, though. I believe Stede may have an unlikely supporter soon.

Edited October 5, 2023 by ofmd

[rwlevin]

6 hours ago, ofmd said:

That Ricky character felt unnecessary

He’s the guy with the fake nose in the trailers so obviously we need him now to get to him later. (Not a spoiler since it’s in the trailer)

[RedHawk]

Season 2 is back today, October 5!

[ofmd]

Actually, 3 episodes dropped today (as I learned after my previous post). We really need a forum for the show!

And just a warning, there are some articles out there with spoilers for the whole season, so beware! I managed to backtrack after only a minor one, but it still sucks.

Here's a nice one with only spoilers for the first 3 episodes of s2:

https://www.insider.com/our-flag-means-death-season-2-premiere-set-diary-photos-david-jenkins-2023-10

Also, in case anyone missed it, they now have a little after-credits scene after, well, the credits.

Edited October 5, 2023 by ofmd

[angora]

So glad to have the show back! Normally when shows drop multiple episodes, I like to watch one a day, but I knew I didn’t want to be spoiled on this one, and I didn’t want to spend the next three days dodging social media, so I watched them all today. (Lucky for me I don’t work on Thursdays!) I jotted down my thoughts after each episode. I’m not gonna spoil tag them, since the episodes are out now, so avert your eyes if you haven’t watched yet.

 

Episode 1

Lots of place-setting in this episode, establishing where the characters are now, but I’m really looking forward to what’s ahead.

Stede’s goofy dream sequence was fun. Him and Ed running towards each other on the beach and crashing into each other’s arms was the best kind of cheesy. Loved getting a look at Stede and his crew working at Spanish Jackie’s. I enjoyed how invested Roach was in the Swede and Jackie’s relationship, and Oluwande was the voice of reason, as always.

I appreciate that, even in his full Kraken era, we still saw little glimpses of Ed being Ed. Signs of his ongoing heartbreak obviously, even amid his anger, but I also thought the moment where he was questioning the crew on the “poisoned atmosphere” and turned the gun on himself was very Ed, albeit extra manic and dysregulated. I felt for Izzy in trying to deal with all this, and he certainly didn’t deserve how Ed was treating him. But I had to roll my eyes at his insistence that Ed’s feelings for Stede were the real problem, making no acknowledgement of his own role in getting Ed to bury and sublimate those feelings rather than deal with them. Jim comforting Fang with the wooden boy story was so sweet and funny, especially when they started doing the voices and were cracking themselves up. No idea what’s in store for Frenchie as first mate, but I’m both excited and nervous to find out! (Side note: loving Jim and Frenchie’s makeovers! They both looked fantastic in the trailers, and I appreciate getting a better look at them here.)

 

Episode 2

Still a pretty dark episode, but I thought it had a bit more humor than the first one. I lol’d at Roach and Oluwande calling themselves “tender” and Stede being so flummoxed when Zheng was assigning jobs. Also? LUCIUS!!! I’m glad we got back to him so quickly, and I laughed at the crew just chilling out watching him and Black Pete have their reunion. But even though everything he’s been through was so horrible, I appreciate that we didn’t just get an easy fix here. Lucius *was*, to use Stede’s parlance, mentally devastated, and it was totally understandable that he’d be mad at Stede. I like that Stede was able to own that, and that he encouraged Lucius to talk to Black Pete. I also like that Stede is gradually being nudged to consider that his relationship with Ed might not be salvageable after everything that’s gone down, even as he’s still not ready to give up on Ed.

I thought the quick seconds-long flashbacks were really effective. We got some of those in season 1, quick glimpses of Stede’s unhappy home life, but here, they were soft flashes to season 1 when everyone was happier. (The exception, of course, being poor Lucius remembering Ed pushing him off the ship.)

I find it interesting that both Jim and Oluwande are getting the opportunity to be with someone else while they’re away from each other. I’m liking the potential of Jim/Archie and Oluwande/Zheng, even as I totally still ship the two of them together. I hope that when they eventually get back to each other, they’ll both be healthier for having had these other experiences. Jim saying they saved Izzy because “he’s our dick” didn’t really ring true for me, because Izzy never really had that sort of relationship with anyone on the Revenge. I could see them saying that about, say, Black Pete, but not Izzy. But I liked what they said about how life used to mean something on this ship, and that was a good enough explanation for me.

Frenchie and Jim would’ve both had much better previous associations with Ed, but I 100% get why no one’s really trying to help him, even as he’s clearly drowning. His self-destructive impulses were super destructive to everyone around him, and his wild moods kept everyone on edge. I appreciated how quickly it became evident that upbeat, “new day” Ed was just as unpredictable and dangerous as grim-faced Kraken Ed. Poor Frenchie could tell he was standing on a powder keg, despite Ed’s cheery facade.

 

Episode 3

Great episode! I loved Zheng’s, “Girl, how *are* you?” to Stede, Stede leaping overboard to get back to the Revenge/Ed, and the whole escape plan. I laughed out loud when Stede was going around the Revenge taking out knives, then looked up to see the ceiling was *covered* in knives. So happy we got Oluwande and Jim’s reunion relatively quickly. They were both so sweet! And aww, Oluwande didn’t realize Zheng had been coming onto him!

Poor Stede, thinking Ed had been killed. I liked that he admitted his feelings about all of this were complicated, that he was disturbed to hear about the things Ed had done and that he felt guilty for his part in it. And I’m glad Izzy finally acknowledged that he and Stede both had a role in this.

It’s kind of startling how quickly Ed went back to the Ed that we know when he was in the “gravy basket.” Yes, he was super messed up, with strong abandonment issues and intense simmering anger that can bubble up into violence, but he was also goofy, honest, and sensitive. I liked him confessing how effed up his mutiny was, and I loved him trying out his innkeeping skills (the little bit of greenery pinned to his shirt made it art, lol.) I also really liked the “pros and cons” scene—Ed’s “con” that he didn’t think anyone was waiting for him was so sad. Great use of the flashbacks again, as “Hornigold” kept pushing him and poking at his damage. And the whole sinking sequence was beautifully done, juxtaposed with Stede finding Ed and begging him to wake up, which finally broke through to the drowning Ed. But then the sight of Mermaid Stede absolutely killed me! I like that, in the dream sequences in both episode 1 and episode 3, Stede gets to be framed as the rescuer, while Ed is the one who falls into his arms.

[P2C2E]

God, Taika is such a gorgeous man. I could sit and look at him all day. And he's a damn good actor too. He broke my heart in that moment of Ed's realization that he hated himself. 

I'm so glad this show is back and so mad that I can't just binge the whole season.

[nodorothyparker]

Good first three episodes. What really sells this show for me is that while a lot of it is so wonderfully absurd, it also absolutely understands despondency and alienation and how much they can drive people. It makes it so much more than just a silly pirate comedy. I think because Taika Waititi's work is so varied and he's probably best known for some of his seemingly oddball roles, it's easy to miss what a tremendous actor he can be. Ed's self loathing and hopelessness across these three episodes just saturated every scene he was in. Everything about the ending of the third episode was gorgeous with his sinking down and going under from the weight of his own despair only to fight to rise as he realized he can be loved. Mermaid Stede was a scream and beautiful to look at.

Just because I think it needs to be said, I'm loving the additions of the women pirates. Pirate queen Zheng is bringing something new to the table I'm really enjoying.

[angora]

15 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Good first three episodes. What really sells this show for me is that while a lot of it is so wonderfully absurd, it also absolutely understands despondency and alienation and how much they can drive people. It makes it so much more than just a silly pirate comedy. I think because Taika Waititi's work is so varied and he's probably best known for some of his seemingly oddball roles, it's easy to miss what a tremendous actor he can be. Ed's self loathing and hopelessness across these three episodes just saturated every scene he was in.

So much this! The show has always blended comedy and drama *so* well, but it really takes things up a notch with Ed's arc across these three episodes. How empty he feels through much of episode 1. The way we get this brief upswing from him once he makes his decision in episode 2, then how he plays the "madman"/monster until he can push the crew into killing him. The journey he goes through in the gravy basket. Not to mention, we also get Stede's overly optimistic letter to Ed in episode 1 giving way to, "I think I'm afraid to see you." Him stepping up to try and be there for Lucius, encouraging Lucius not to make his mistakes. The way he believes Ed has been killed but works to save the people who killed him. On a show where the writing and the acting never wastes a moment, Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby were absolutely going for broke.

15 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Just because I think it needs to be said, I'm loving the additions of the women pirates. Pirate queen Zheng is bringing something new to the table I'm really enjoying.

I love them too! I laughed at Archie telling Jim to take “the fucked-up one” as they prepared to amputate Izzy’s infected leg. And I found her nihilistic response to being forced to fight to the death haunting, especially when Jim had her on the ropes and she essentially gave them permission to kill her, saying, “It’s just life." With Zheng Yi Sao, I'm reminded a little of Ed in season 1, the way she's a legendary pirate who has the people around her in awe, but she often acts like just a regular person. She was so sweet and awkward flirting with Oluwande, and when she dealt with the "Soul Reaper," I loved the way she just winced and said, "I *know*, it's been a day!" And Auntie is great! I liked her take-no-prisoners attitude, her meticulous planning, and her filing system that’s “ahead of its time.” Each of them brings their own new flavor to the show while also fitting in beautifully with what’s already there.

I'm obsessed with the behind-the-scenes details about the ending of episode 3. Rhys's mermaid tail wasn't CGI--it was an actual costume, and he had to practice swimming while wearing it! Entertainment Weekly has a good article about it, including lots of pictures:

Quote

Originally, the plan was to use a green screen to give Darby a CGI tail. But it was costume designer Gypsy Taylor who pushed back, arguing that she and her team could build a practical tail that looked gorgeous and functioned underwater. "I was like, 'Please make my dreams come true!'" she tells EW with a laugh. "'I want to make Rhys Darby a mermaid!'" It helped that Darby himself was game: The actor served in the New Zealand army, so he's a more than capable swimmer. He volunteered to film as much of the scene as he could, even if that meant learning to swim with a monofin.  

As she started to sketch, Taylor immersed herself in mermaid imagery, finding inspiration in all sorts of aquatic creatures. Ultimately, she decided on a subtle golden look, one that fit Stede's personality but still brought plenty of drama.

"I delved deep into the mermaid world, and I could have gone all rainbow and big and luscious," she explains. "But instead I thought, look, if Stede turns into a fish, and it's Blackbeard's dream sequence of what he knows of Stede, then he'd probably just turn into a really sweet goldfish. So, that's where I started. He's just this sweet, loving little goldfish."

...

Taylor worked closely with stunt coordinator Jacob Tomuri to make sure the tail not only looked beautiful but functioned underwater, too. (She also knew that they'd have to film quickly, since the chlorine in the tank could corrode the tail over time.) She carefully monitored the tail's weight — but it still wound up heavier than she anticipated.

"We added a whole lot of weight accidentally by putting five kilograms of glitter in," Taylor admits. "I had to warn the stunt team. I was like, 'I didn't think glitter would be that heavy! But we needed a lot of it. And it's so pretty!'"

...

Once the tail was fitted to Darby's body, the makeup and prosthetics team came in to seamlessly blend it to his bare skin, adding even more scales and glitter. But although Darby moved gracefully underwater, navigating dry land proved to be a bigger challenge. Once the actor was encased in his tail, he couldn't move around set, so the crew borrowed a wheelchair from a local New Zealand hospital to transport him to the tank. (See the video below.)

"We'd all go up this ramp together, with him in his little wheelchair, and we'd just sort of dump him in," Taylor explains. "Everyone was trying very hard not to laugh."

And cinematographer Andy Rydzewski posted this on Instagram, including several behind-the-scenes clips of Taika in the water tank. Because the tank was really big but not very deep, they actually shot him sideways for the sinking scene, then flipped the image to make it look like he was being dragged down:

Quote

Performances. Both @taikawaititi and @rhysiedarby do a surprising and impressive amount of work in this piece. It’s hard not to drown with your legs wrapped together, let alone swim across a pool, land on a mark, then deliver an adorable, love-filled smile. Yet Rhys did exactly that, over and over. Taika, conversely, had to be pulled downward, expelling air on the way, then pause, mid-water tank, and start acting. He gave options, hit every beat and also didn’t drown. Both of them blew me away.

 

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm only on episode 2, but I'm enjoying the Chinese pirate ship. 

[AnimeMania]

Our Flag Means Death Season 2       October 12, 2023      Max  

Episodes 4-5         Titles and Descriptions   

Spoiler

S02.E04: Fun and Games

After he’s banished from the Revenge, Blackbeard unwittingly receives relationship advice from some dysfunctional old friends.

S02.E05: The Curse of the Seafaring Life

As Blackbeard remains plagued by the distrust of his crew, Izzy schools Stede on how to be an effective captain.

[angora]

Thoughts on the new episodes:

 

Episode 4

OMG, I loved it! After everything Ed went through in the first three episodes, and everything he put his crew through, I figured we were going to have to deal with that before we could get to the Stede/Ed stuff, but this episode did an excellent job of covering both in a way that made sense. I completely understand the crew voting to banish him, and I can buy Ed not fighting them on that but feeling further betrayed by Stede as a result. “You’re no fucking mermaid,” was perfect.

I thought everything between Stede and Ed was good. As fun and silly as the bit with the rabbit was, Ed broke my heart a little when he told the rabbit how rare it was to find someone who truly understands you. And throwing him and Stede into contact with the hilariously chaotic Anne and Mary was a good way to get all the baggage out in the open: old wounds poked at and secrets revealed before they were ready, which then allowed them to talk honestly as they waded through everything that had just come up. Stede was absolutely lovely, owning up to the hurt he caused Ed while also trying to explain *and* pointing out that he’s forgiven Ed for things too. I loved that he made Ed listen to his “I love you” speech while also assuring him he didn’t have to say it back. By the end of the episode, I could believe where they’d ended up; Ed softly admitting that he’d like Stede to talk to the crew again was sweet, and I laughed when Stede needed Ed to come with him because he couldn’t find his way back to the ship.

Minnie Driver and Rachel House were terrific, a fun mix of sappy and murderous. I liked the scenes between Anne-Stede and Mary-Ed, and I loved that, for those two, the sweetest gesture Anne could make was to set their house on fire. And it killed me that people kept forgetting about Buttons and he’d just pop up randomly and freak people out.

I loved the storyline back on the ship. So sweet that Roach, Black Pete, Wee John, and Oluwande wanted to try and help the others, even though it was completely believable that all of them were too jumpy and traumatized to recognize the loving gestures for what they were. The scene of everyone pointing their weapons at each other was fun, and I liked the resolution that they all banded together once they realized that Izzy was more messed up than any of them. I think this episode ultimately offered a lot of healing for Ed’s crew and Lucius, but I hope we continue to see evidence of how they’ve been affected by their experiences (much like how opening up to Stede and then Black Pete in episode 2 didn’t “fix” Lucius’s trauma.) Oh, and Oluwande calling Jim “babe” was too cute!

 

Episode 5

This felt like a needed episode, a nice blend of growth and silliness. Some good stuff in the “curse” storyline, from Stede’s excited little twirls in the suit to Roach inventing peanut butter. I liked that Stede eventually acknowledged that the crew’s superstitious fears weren’t worth keeping the suit and asked for their input in ridding the ship of the curse. And I loved he *did* do well “in the field,” like he told Izzy–punching the guy who tried to stab him on the first ship and firing his well-timed warning shot on the second.

I liked the mix we got with Ed here, that he genuinely was sorry and wanted to make things right with the crew but also didn’t know how and just kind of wanted to get it over with. The cat collar made me smile. Sending him fishing with Fang was a good choice; Fang was able to be honest with him while still being sweet and nonjudgmental. But while it makes sense that there’s a lot of focus at this stage on how Ed hurt people, I do hope that at some point he’s able to talk about what he was going through and get some support.

With the crew, I appreciated that we got to see several different mindsets after the events of episode 5. You had Izzy determined to move on while also denying what he’d been through, Lucius trying to deal but feeling rushed by those who were pushing him to get over things, and the others mostly in a good place, integrated back with their friends. The scenes between Lucius and Black Pete were so sweet.

[ofmd]

There's a petition to renew it for a third season:

https://www.change.org/p/renew-our-flag-means-death

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm on E3, and I'm enjoying the show. I do wish there was more time on the Chinese ship though. I liked the atmosphere.

Please tell me I'm not the only one who caught Ed quoting Whitesnake in E4. 

 

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm with Ed; I can't really sit and be quiet. Even at home I'm talking at the dog or the tv. The dog can sit and be quiet. She goes into the closet and settles into the socks. 

I thought the curse plot was kind of dumb. If you're allergic to peanuts, you're still going to be. I did think it was funny that they tied up the other crew just to leave the suit. 

[AnimeMania]

Our Flag Means Death Season 2       October 19, 2023       Max  

Episodes 6-7         Titles and Descriptions   

Spoiler

S02.E06: Calypso's Birthday

While the crew celebrates Calypso’s birthday, Blackbeard faces a violent party-crasher seeking revenge.

S02.E07: Man on Fire

As Blackbeard reevaluates his life, Stede revels in his newfound infamy. With some help from Jim, Oluwande reunites with a hesitant Zheng.

[ofmd]

First of all, I now officially indentify as Calypsish. Never knew I needed this religion.

Secondly, my one complaint of this season is that it feels rushed. They are cramming a LOT into these half-hour episodes. I suspect they want to make sure they can tell most of the story in case they don't get the third season for their planned-out arc. Which is good, but I do wish for a better pacing. More room to breathe, particularly when it comes to things like

Spoiler

Ed and Stede's very different development at this point and what they mean to them. Identity issues, essentially. Ed wanting a different, quiet life, Stede just getting a taste of this pirate life (and letting it get to his head). By the way, that was a perfect mirror of Ed at the poosh party in season 1! Remember when he revelled in the admiration of the other guests, totally ignoring Stede?

Also, Stede's "first" murder (hopefully his last one, too) and glossing over it with sex. And much more.

It was a well-prepared and logical conflict, but played out at light speed.

That said, so much to love!

Spoiler

Calypso's birthday! Drag! Zheng being badass! (I do hope she was double-crossing the British anyway, not betraying the pirates... Will we ever know?) Frenchie and Fang having a chill/ spa day!

Stede saving the day with appreciating hostile employees as people! Stede and Ed almost slow-dancing! Sex to fireworks and... Izzy singing La vie en rose!

The writiers and the actor have done a fantastic job with Izzy.

Edited October 19, 2023 by ofmd

[angora]

4 hours ago, ofmd said:

Secondly, my one complaint of this season is that it feels rushed. They are cramming a LOT into these half-hour episodes. I suspect they want to make sure they can tell most of the story in case they don't get the third season for their planned-out arc. Which is good, but I do wish for a better pacing.

I wonder if they initially planned for another ten-episode season and then felt like they had to cram when they only got eight. I think even another two episodes would give the plot quite a bit more room to breathe.

My thoughts on the new episodes:

Episode 6

Such a great episode! I like that the big party from the trailer wasn’t specifically a drag night, a wedding/engagement party, or anything like that. It was simply the crew “Calypsoing” Stede to throw a big party just because. But within that, I love that Ed explained the con to Stede and he still went along with it, and that everyone got super into the spirit of it, making up fake Calypsan traditions–culminating, of course, in Wee John dressing as Calypso! The quick shot of Jim, Oluwande, and Archie dancing together was sweet, and I loved Izzy singing! And using the treasure from Ed’s “guilt room” to pay for the party was a lovely idea on Stede’s part–I really liked the theme of “turning poison into positivity.” Oh, and their strings of pirate-themed bunting were so cute! I can easily see those popping up on Etsy.

I’m glad we’re seeing that Ed is still troubled by his guilt and the things he’s done. It was good to finally get a scene between him and Izzy, and while we certainly didn’t get a heart-to-heart between them, I think Ed’s apology to Izzy, as small as it was, was important. And Ed’s own feelings of regret turning into concern for Stede was really well done.

I love that, for the most part, Stede handled Ned Low *his* way. The seeds were already there with Ned Low’s crew, as we saw the crew of the Revenge picking up on their boredom/discontentment and trying to turn that to their advantage. But Stede did a marvelous job of it–love that Hellkat Maggie took over the ship and was ready to discuss profit-sharing with the crew! Like Ed, though, I’m worried about the turn things took at the end, and I’m not sure what it says that Stede and Ed’s first time is going to coincide with Stede’s first intentional kill (the quick flashbacks to young Stede after throwing Ned Low overboard were nicely done.)

We see a lot of “artistic” killers/torturers in pop culture–hello, Hannibal! But I kind of love that, for all of Ned Low’s pretension, his art was pretty lame and his crew was just grumpily going through the motions of it all. He repeatedly sneered at Ed for being generic and “lowborn,” but his great “symphony” was just his shallow attempt to find purpose in a bunch of people screaming.

I noticed during the Calypso party that we hadn’t seen Lucius and Black Pete yet, so I was glad to see them show up below deck. I laughed so hard at Lucius saying, “What if we just tell their stories? Isn’t that the best revenge?” They were so funny running around collecting every single knife they could find, and I liked that, when they finally emerged, Ed just told them not to get in the way of Stede doing his thing.

 

Episode 7

Yep, I figured post-kill sex wasn’t going to be the right move. The morning-after breakfast scene was cute, and you could tell Ed was starting to broach the subject of getting out of piracy–I wonder if he might have explained himself better if they hadn’t been interrupted, or if that conversation would’ve gone badly no matter what. I completely understand why Ed wants to put all that behind him. He was disillusioned with piracy before he ever met Stede, and feeling trapped in his “monstrous” Blackbeard persona was what fueled his downward spiral at the start of the season. At the same time, though, he’s being super impulsive here. It took him every ounce of willpower he had to be quiet long enough to catch a single fish, and now he thinks he’s going to be a fisherman? Girl, please.

It’s realistic that Stede’s newfound fame would go to his head. So many people have regarded him as a joke for so long, and he’s managed to work within that space, but now that he suddenly *is* like one of the notorious pirates he’s read about, it makes sense that he’d play the peacock here, to the point that he’d get himself in way over his head against Zheng Yi Sao. To that end, I can buy that he lasted as long as he did in their duel. She was clearly toying with him throughout, both to impress upon him how wrong he’d been and because she didn’t see him as a real threat.

Frenchie and Black Pete grifting off of Stede’s fame was fun–I loved Frenchie selling “genuine planks” from the Revenge, and I laughed out loud at Black Pete urging Lucius to hurry up with the counterfeit autographs. And I loved the post-credits scene! Again, after noticing that Roach and Fang hadn’t been around, it was great to see them at the very end. I love that they had a spa day!

I don’t mind Oluwande still being hung up on Zheng Yi Sao–apparently his type is “ruthlessly capable badass”–but I wish we could have seen any of that between episodes 3 and 7. If he was “always” talking about her back on the Revenge, where was it? We could’ve gotten a quick bit of him trying to tell a story about her and Jim or Archie going, “You do remember she was gonna kill us, right?”, or lamenting that he might never see her again when they were being tortured by Ned Low’s crew. Just something. If they weren’t going to bring it up at all, they could’ve gone with him not realizing how he felt until he saw her again.

Still loving Zheng Yi Sao and Auntie, and so excited for the season finale! That last scene was a banger.

[ofmd]

On 10/19/2023 at 7:51 PM, angora said:

I wonder if they initially planned for another ten-episode season and then felt like they had to cram when they only got eight. I think even another two episodes would give the plot quite a bit more room to breathe.

 

Very good point! I doubt they initially planned for a shorter season, plus I heard there were budget cuts (hence they had to ditch Ivan). Which is mind-boggling, considering it was quite a success.

Quote

I don’t mind Oluwande still being hung up on Zheng Yi Sao–apparently his type is “ruthlessly capable badass”–but I wish we could have seen any of that between episodes 3 and 7. If he was “always” talking about her back on the Revenge, where was it?

Indeed. And also, maybe make them a tad conflicted to leave Stede, who had just saved Jim and Archie's lives. That was a bit rushed, too.

Edited October 20, 2023 by ofmd

[angora]

On 10/20/2023 at 1:40 PM, ofmd said:

Indeed. And also, maybe make them a tad conflicted to leave Stede, who had just saved Jim and Archie's lives. That was a bit rushed, too.

Definitely. How quickly Jim seems to have forgotten their comment about, "I guess you never know when you're in the good old days." Leaving Stede and joining up with a captain who'd previously planned to execute Jim and Archie is quite the choice for these three to make. Not to mention, Zheng has been creating her own fleet. Instead of leaving the Revenge, why not at least try to broach the idea with her and/or Stede about teaming up?

[hatchetgirl]

On 10/9/2023 at 9:21 AM, P2C2E said:

God, Taika is such a gorgeous man. I could sit and look at him all day. And he's a damn good actor too.

Sigh.  He's just so dreamy.  

[AnimeMania]

S02.E08: Mermen

(Season Finale)

Stede, Zheng, Spanish Jackie, and the rest of the Revenge crew team up to take down a nefarious common enemy threatening the world of piracy. 

Premiere Date: October 26, 2023      Max        

[ofmd]

This season left me strangely empty. And the choice they made wrt

Spoiler

Izzy

was so predictable and lame that I was sure they wouldn't go there.

Oh well.

[angora]

Whoa. I’m still processing, and I definitely need to watch it again, but I was happy with the season finale. Considering all there was to get done in half an hour, I think the show brought it home well. Spoilers ahead!

Ed reading Stede’s letter was so sweet, and I loved their reunion amidst fighting all those British soldiers–cut short, of course, to help Zheng! I also liked the interactions of the whole Stede-Zheng-Ed trio and thought they worked well together.

I liked seeing everyone holding their own against the British, whether it was the imprisoned crew’s determination to escape, Roach dropping cigar ashes in people’s food, Izzy showing his open contempt for Ricky, and then Spanish Jackie poisoning everybody! I loved her reassuring the Swede, “Everyone’s poison trained in this house,” and I laughed *so* hard at Stede saying, “Oh shit, is that us doing that?” when all the British started keeling over. And everyone looked exquisitely good in their stolen British naval uniforms. Can we get this cast in a gender- and racebent adaptation of a Jane Austen romance or something? Gorgeous!

I’m glad Auntie survived. I liked Oluwande helping her, and seeing how his encouragement paid off–Zheng’s reaction to Auntie saying she was proud of her was really lovely. I’m still trying to decide what I think about Izzy’s death, but I liked that they used his unicorn leg to make the cross for his grave.

Lucius and Black Pete’s wedding was both funny and sweet. I love that the crew tag-teamed officiating the ceremony, and I laughed out loud when Roach begrudgingly admitted that they could kiss instead of slashing each other’s faces. That final tracking shot of the crew–plus Zheng, Auntie, Jackie, and the Swede–setting off in the Revenge was gorgeous.

Now we’ll see how long we’ll have to cross our fingers as we wait to hear any news about renewal. Stede and Ed opening an inn together has lots of potential, although I’ll hope the show would still find plenty of reasons for them to interact with the crew. The cast chemistry is too good to keep them apart!

[Starchild]

So, I didn't expect this show to make me cry. And over Izzy of all people.

Well played, show, well played.

[SoMuchTV]

Taika Waititi was a guest on The Daily Show last night, interviewed by guest host Leslie Jones.  Spanish Jackie/Blackbeard reunion!

[WildFlower87]

Cancelled

https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/our-flag-means-death-canceled-max-1235866718/

[angora]

Fuck.

I'm so grateful to the show for giving us a season 2 finale that could function as a series finale in the event that this happened. They had more story to tell, and I'm gutted that, barring some kind of extraordinary intervention, they won't get a chance to tell it--but I'm thankful that most of the characters were left in a good place for us to imagine their continuing adventures.

Pouring one out for the cast and crew who put their all into this beautiful, hilarious, sad, weird, hopeful little show. Each one of them left it all on the mat, and I'm glad we got a chance to meet fantastic new characters this season like Zheng Yi Sao and Auntie.

[ofmd]

Wtf?! I may not have been entirely happy with season 2, but it was still wildly successful.

I'm less and less interested in checking out new shows because I just know if they're good, they will get cancelled no matter how many viewers they attract. I really don't get what these streaming services are doing.

FWIW, here's the obligatory petition and renewal campaign:

https://www.renewasacrew.com

https://www.change.org/p/renew-our-flag-means-death

Edited January 10 by ofmd

[Lud]

Any Idea if show got submitted for Emmys ?   Season 2  falls in the eligibility for nominations to be announced in July.   Awards all around, please.   

Seeing our goofy crew show up together would be the highlight of this distressing year.