Little House Series and Pioneer Girl Readalong

[Brn2bwild]

 

 

No, first of all, in America a crinoline is an underskirt made of very stiff material--usually net. It makes the skirt just stick out from the body. They are still sold, for wedding dresses, debutante ballgowns and those horrid little-girl-pageant dresses. They were also worn in the 1950's sometimes, with "poodle" skirts.

Hoops are made of wire and tape and are meant to create a specific shape (frankly, I think they looked like lampshades or toilet roll covers with doll heads.

 

That could be the source of the confusion -- in Britain, from the 1850s, crinoline was made from wire as well.  The trend began as just stiffer skirts under the outer dress (in the 1840s), graduating to whale bone and finally wire, before fading away altogether.  

[PrincessLuceval]

I may have missed it, but I got the impression that they wore the hoops for dressing up only? So yes, jammed in the sleigh for church they'd be a pain, but around the house, Alice didn't wear them? (The older girls and Mother did though.)

 

Has anyone tried apples n onions? I was tempted to, when the cookbook came out. I'm sure it's an acquired taste, but apples can be savory too, so it's not too much of a weird combination.

[BatmanBeatles]

I don't really like onions so, no.

Edited August 19, 2014 by BatmanBeatles

[kikismom]

I may have missed it, but I got the impression that they wore the hoops for dressing up only? So yes, jammed in the sleigh for church they'd be a pain, but around the house, Alice didn't wear them? (The older girls and Mother did though.)

 

Has anyone tried apples n onions? I was tempted to, when the cookbook came out. I'm sure it's an acquired taste, but apples can be savory too, so it's not too much of a weird combination.

In the part where Almanzo and Alice are in the cellar he talks about her hoopskirts spinning one way while she turned the other which he thought was funny; and that was working chores..

We had liver with apples and onions all together; quite a few german recipes use apples and onions together. It's good. Onions are sweet when they are slowly cooked.

[sgittinger]

My Ma does roast pork with apples and onions fairly frequently during the winter months....

[Winipo75]

How did he stuff all that food into him at one sitting? I know there was more manual labour back then, and he was a growing boy, but still, the size of the meals was enormous! There were often multiple dishes, and then Almanzo would have three or four pieces of pie! Then after supper in the winter, they had popcorn and apples! Did they really need an evening snack after eating a 12-course meal? I'm sorry, but the contrast with the Ingalls is making me sad. Even in the Big Woods, when times were good, they never ate like that! 

 

I enjoyed the part where Almanzo and Alice snuck into the parlour and slid off the furniture. It reminded me of sliding down a mattress against the wall in my Grandmother's house with my cousins. We also used to play Little House together.

[Pickles Aplenty]

Eating the way they did, I'm surprised everyone wasn't incredibly fat.

[BatmanBeatles]

His mother and the girls must of spent most of their lives in the kitchen.

[ElderPrice]

I'm surprised that FW was able to make a go of growing wheat. We have a very short growing season and lots of hilly terrain-crops such as wheat usually don't make it. The staples here are the "three sisters"- corn, squash and beans. Root crops such as carrots and potatoes also usually do ok. But wheat? Here?  

[kikismom]

I'm surprised that FW was able to make a go of growing wheat. We have a very short growing season and lots of hilly terrain-crops such as wheat usually don't make it. The staples here are the "three sisters"- corn, squash and beans. Root crops such as carrots and potatoes also usually do ok. But wheat? Here?  

 

Yes, you woudn't think of wheat way upstate in NY. Now, they grow wheat on the Canadian prairie farther north, but it's about the soil being the same. The eastern states don't have that kind of soil, but look up the price of wheat at that time. Very expensive. This may be why Almanzo thought he could get rich. But he didn't realize (nor did other homesteaders) that half a million more wheat farms of 160 acres would ruin the prices for farmers.

They used to grow cotton in New England. They just didn't get as much. I guess people tried growing what they needed in the years before large scale railroad subsidized agriculture.

 

 

I enjoyed the part where Almanzo and Alice snuck into the parlour and slid off the furniture. It reminded me of sliding down a mattress against the wall in my Grandmother's house with my cousins. We also used to play Little House together.

We played Little House; my mom made us pioneer dresses and bonnets from a Simplicity pattern. She attached an old refrigerator box to the top of the picnic table and that was our covered wagon. I had a wooden horse my grandfather made for me (to go with my first cowgirl outfit--I was stylin') and we used old clothesline rope to make a harness. We pretended to be Laura and Mary; I'm afraid my older sister was a little too good at imitating Mary Ingalls.

[Winipo75]

That is so cool! I love the covered wagon idea! Sometimes we used a broom for a horse, but the rest we imagined. In our version, Pa and Ma always died in a tragic wagon accident, leaving the girls on their own. My youngest cousin was Carrie, and since I was the oldest, I was Mary. (I was also a bit prissy like Mary, too, so the role fit).

 

 

His mother and the girls must of spent most of their lives in the kitchen.

 

I was actually a bit upset when I read about the County Fair. Royal was off with his friends, Father and Almanzo were looking at horses and other livestock, but the girls were stuck in the big kitchen with their mother making an enormous meal for everyone. County Fair time! Fun for all! (Well, unless you were a woman and had to feed everybody!)

[spidermiss2426]

So I didn't know about this readalong until last night-- but I've read all the books a million times, and reread them quite recently so they are fresh in my head.

 

I didn't read the Little House series until I was an adult, and didn't get around to reading Farmer Boy until way after I had read all the other books.  I learned to appreciate it, because it is so different from the other books, but it isn't my favorite-- my least favorite is Little House in the Big Woods, my second least favorite is Farmer Boy.

[ElderPrice]

 

 

http://www.pioneerontheprairie.com/images/alice_almanzo.jpg

 

I wonder if that's the suit that Almanzo wore to the Fourth of July celebration. "He put on his. . . short round coat. Mother had made his new suit in the new style. The coat fastened at the throat with a little flap of cloth, then the two sides slanted back to show his vest, and they rounded off over his trousers' pockets. . . He felt very fine." 

Edited August 21, 2014 by ElderPrice

[kikismom]

http://www.pioneerontheprairie.com/images/alice_almanzo.jpg

 

I wonder if that's the suit that Almanzo wore to the Fourth of July celebration. "He put on his. . . short round coat. Mother had made his new suit in the new style. The coat fastened at the throat with a little flap of cloth, then the two sides slanted back to show his vest, and they rounded off over his trousers' pockets. . . He felt very fine." 

I think you are absolutely right!

And didn't he also wet his hair and comb it down when he came in the house to eat? His hair looks quite slicked down in that picture! :-)

Edited August 21, 2014 by kikismom

[BatmanBeatles]

I've always been curious about the milk fed pumpkin. How does that work?

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

I've always been curious about the milk fed pumpkin. How does that work?

Here's a description of the technique that specifically name-drops Farmer Boy. http://forums.organicgardening.com/topic/51820721207867329

Edited August 21, 2014 by Sir RaiderDuck OMS

[Athena]

I've been a tad busy to sit down and read, but I finally caught up to the readalong this week.

 

The Little House in the Big Woods: This had some nice idyllic moments, but it was on the more boring side. Nothing really happened. What irked me the most was the obsession with hair. Poor Laura! I thought that was a stupid message to send to brunette girls. I did like that there were some good family moments, and it was really nice to read about being cozy in that house in the woods. The ending is quite sweet too.

 

Farmer Boy: I enjoyed this more. It holds up as a standalone novel, and most of the book is farming. It's actually a good picture of back in the day, but I'm into that kind of thing. I enjoyed the food, the animal husbandry, and basically everything Mother did especially the weaving and knitting. I'm a knitter and have done my share of some spinning and knitting too.

 

There is a lot of food, but I think it was mostly emphasized earlier in the book. To be honest, it seemed exaggerated for effect. I think Laura wrote so much about it because Manly probably played it up for her. Secondly, Laura did not have that kind of food growing up. I'm also beginning to suspect she did not have a Father like Manly did either. Even though he was on the two dimensional side, Father Wilder seemed to be that kind of hard working, gruff farmer Dad. He seemed constant, hard working, and knowledgeable. It's a contrast to Pa Ingalls. 

 

I really enjoyed the book except for the moments about playing Indians, stupid cousin Frank, and that weird story about Mr Paddock and Mr Thompson. Yes, the latter is a rude jackass for thinking Almanzo was a thief, but $200?! I felt Mr Paddock bullied Thompson out of that money. It made me uncomfortable how Almanzo got the money. It was incredibly far fetched and not morally correct either no matter what Paddock said. 

[ElderPrice]

It is interesting to contrast the two fathers. Pa was definitely more hands-on, hugging, playing, storytelling. A good-time dad. Father Wilder seems to be the opposite- serious, quiet and intimidating. The kids were a little afraid of him. However, in the end it was the not-so-fun Father Wilder that provided handsomely for his family and Fun-Time Pa that nearly starved them to death because he would always eventually get bored with where they were living.

[kikismom]

It is interesting to contrast the two fathers. Pa was definitely more hands-on, hugging, playing, storytelling. A good-time dad. Father Wilder seems to be the opposite- serious, quiet and intimidating. The kids were a little afraid of him. However, in the end it was the not-so-fun Father Wilder that provided handsomely for his family and Fun-Time Pa that nearly starved them to death because he would always eventually get bored with where they were living.

Which sensibly explains the opposite mothering:

Caroline Ingalls always had to play the heavy, because Charles avoided any harsh responsibilities. Mother Wilder could be forgiving, comforting, gentle...because James Wilder not only did but expected to do the tough stuff as his duty.

[BatmanBeatles]

I don't remember Mother Wilder saying something in a gentle way.

[Athena]

I don't remember Mother Wilder saying something in a gentle way.

 

She was definitely the gentler one. Not to say Father was crass, but Almanzo idolized his mother. To be fair, she seemed to work magic by cleaning the house, doing the chores, making butter & clothes, and feed that family. The girls helped, but that woman seems to have done a heck of a lot.

 

I felt bad for Alice though. She does even say that "Boys have all the fun." in the book. 

[kikismom]

When the kids eat all the sugar Mother Wilder just takes it in stride; they haven't done work all week till the last day and when they confess to leaving just a little sugar at the bottom of the barrel...I would consider her reaction gentle compared to what Ma Ingalls would have done in response! She does get pissed when Eliza talks about the tea in the saucer but frankly Eliza deserved it (she was being a little snot).

And how she just says "it takes a lot to feed a growing boy" instead of criticizing how much he is taking, and tells her husband what harm would it be for Almanzo to miss a little school. she just seems so much more understanding. But as we've discussed, she had the security of bills paid, plenty of food, even making more money selling her butter than Pa Ingalls made in a whole year. (When she drives the carriage to Malone to put her money in the bank, it's a moment that you'd never see from Caroline.)

[juneday]

I don't know if you all are still doing the read-along, but I'd love to join in! I've loved these books since childhood, although this thread and the other LH book thread revealed some things to me-specifically about Pa.

The last time I read them I was maybe 12-and I did not catch on that Pa was so shiftless. Interesting!

I do think that Mother Wilder was gentler than Ma. But there are lots of reasons for this, as previous posters have mentioned.

[Athena]

I don't know if you all are still doing the read-along, but I'd love to join in! I've loved these books since childhood, although this thread and the other LH book thread revealed some things to me-specifically about Pa.

The last time I read them I was maybe 12-and I did not catch on that Pa was so shiftless. Interesting!

I do think that Mother Wilder was gentler than Ma. But there are lots of reasons for this, as previous posters have mentioned.

 

Welcome! We're on the second week so plenty of time to catch up or just join in whichever books you want. We're starting Little House on the Prairie on Sunday. Check the first post for the schedule.

 

I don't think either Mother Wilder was massively gentler, but Caroline probably had to do more scolding as a result of Pa being shiftless. 

[juneday]

Welcome! We're on the second week so plenty of time to catch up or just join in whichever books you want. We're starting Little House on the Prairie on Sunday. Check the first post for the schedule.

I don't think either Mother Wilder was massively gentler, but Caroline probably had to do more scolding as a result of Pa being shiftless.

Thank you; sounds great! I think I'll just starting reading Little House on the Prairie with you guys. :)

I agree, and I always thought that her being so strict about the girls' schoolwork came from her being a schoolteacher before she married Charles.

[Pickles Aplenty]

I think some parents are harder on kids of the same sex, which could also explain Caroline being strict with the girls and Mother Wilder being easy-going with Almanzo.  If Freddie had lived, I'm sure he would have known a slightly tougher Pa and a gentler Ma.

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

There is a lot of food, but I think it was mostly emphasized earlier in the book. To be honest, it seemed exaggerated for effect. I think Laura wrote so much about it because Manly probably played it up for her.

Another possibility: maybe there was that kind of food variety, but small portions. You might really have turkey and stuffing and roast beef and potatoes and corn and roasted root veggies and venison at a single meal, but it might only be a few bites of each. The rest could be kept in an icebox (not a refrigerator of course, but its non-mechanical precursor which looked like a refrigerator but had a huge block of ice in the top section) and reused over several days.

[Athena]

Another possibility: maybe there was that kind of food variety, but small portions. You might really have turkey and stuffing and roast beef and potatoes and corn and roasted root veggies and venison at a single meal, but it might only be a few bites of each. The rest could be kept in an icebox (not a refrigerator of course, but its non-mechanical precursor which looked like a refrigerator but had a huge block of ice in the top section) and reused over several days.

 

Yes, and Almanzo was a growing boy so he seemed ravenous whenever the food was mentioned or he thought about it constantly. I did not get the sense they ate like that every single day of the week especially when they had a big dinner then would have popcorn and cider later the same night. Laura wrote as it they were big meals, but I suspect, like you, the portions were smaller than described. 

 

I do believe that Almanzo had a lot of food in the house; they had a big farm and reaped the benefits of it. 

[juneday]

Whenever I read Farmer Boy I'm always wondering how much all that food cost. I know they were very self-succifient and had livestock and farmed and whatnot, but geez! They had to buy at least some of that from the store...and all the time that it would take to cook all of that; wow.

[Snow Apple]

While they had more food than many, I don't think they ate like kings every night either. The teacher was staying with them when the first big meal mentioned (which included popcorn later that night). Even then, it was ham with a lot of sides. I think the only time they had more than one meat dish was at the county fair and Christmas.

 

Of course, compared to the Ingalls, it seemed like a lot of food. Baked beans was a side dish tor the Wilders while it was a main dish for the Ingalls.

[PrincessLuceval]

 

Baked beans was a side dish tor the Wilders while it was a main dish for the Ingalls.

 

It was even two meals, if you think about it - the broth from the beans was lunch, with bread. And then the beans were the baked beans for supper.

 

Argh, it's pancake night again. Farmer Boy makes me want pancakes like no other book.

[kikismom]

 

 

Of course, compared to the Ingalls, it seemed like a lot of food. Baked beans was a side dish tor the Wilders while it was a main dish for the Ingalls.

Potatoes were a side dish for the Wilders while it was a main dish for the Ingalls. Likewise toasted bread. Or cottage cheese balls. Or turnips. Or sliced tomatoes.

[kikismom]

It's Little House On The Prairie week!

I'll start with the beginning of the book, where Pa says he "liked a country where the wild animals lived without being afraid".

 

So the first thing they do upon leaving the house is to stop in the town of Pepin, where Pa gets the things they will need for the journey---by trading skins of animals in the Big Woods that he caught in the jaws of traps, the teeth of the sprung traps cutting into their legs and breaking their bones and holding them captive until he came along and shot or clubbed them. Not for food, but for income without having to do something gross, like getting a job.

[PrincessLuceval]

He liked a country where the wild animals lived without being afraid.....of him! So he could more easily catch them!

 

So this is the one with the Jack Drowns But Doesn't episode. Really, they could've found a spot in the wagon for him.

[Snow Apple]

LHOTP. The book where Pa ate watermelon right in front of the girls even though Ma won't let them eat it because it grew in the night air.

[ElderPrice]

I can forgive Pa trapping animals due to the necessity of the times they were living in. I don't like it but I can understand it. What I can't forgive is leaving poor Jack to drown in the river after following them way the hell across the country because he couldn't be bothered to simply PUT THE DOG IN THE WAGON! Asshole.

Edited August 24, 2014 by ElderPrice

[smittykins]

LHOTP. The book where Pa ate watermelon right in front of the girls even though Ma won't let them eat it because it grew in the night air.

Yeah, I could never understand that whole line of thinking.  I realize medical knowledge wasn't as advanced as it is now among "common folk" but really, doesn't *everything* grow in the night air?

[BatmanBeatles]

Some believed it was the humidity that caused malaria.

 

I too never got why Jack couldn't ride in the wagon. He wasn't a huge dog.

[jammaker]

So, they're fording the river.  Poor Jack left to drown  ... er swim.   Mary and Laura are told to lay down, and Mary's cowering under the quilt as Laura stands up and sneaks a peek.  Pa jumps off to help the horses, Ma takes the reins ..

 

Where is Baby Carrie, who until now has been depicted as held by Ma on the wagon seat?

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

So, they're fording the river.  Poor Jack left to drown  ... er swim.   Mary and Laura are told to lay down, and Mary's cowering under the quilt as Laura stands up and sneaks a peek.  Pa jumps off to help the horses, Ma takes the reins ..

 

Where is Baby Carrie, who until now has been depicted as held by Ma on the wagon seat?

Maybe Jack was big enough to carry a tiny saddle?

[nodorothyparker]

Oh God.  This is the book that contains the story of how Pa and the girls went pillaging of an abandoned Indian camp and then Mary still had to show Laura up by immediately giving up all the beads they had found to Carrie, who's too little to play with them anyway.  So of course Ma guilt trips Laura into giving hers up too so she won't be a "selfish girl."  Because heaven forbid those kids they've dragged out into the middle of nowhere with almost nothing should ever be allowed to keep one damn thing for themselves.

Edited August 24, 2014 by nodorothyparker

[juneday]

This is also the book where Pa uproots them again, supposedly because of the government, and leaves the plow there because "it wouldn't fit", even though they packed all of their clothes in two bags and Pa managed to fit his fiddle inside the wagon.

[Athena]

Don't forget the Scotts' racism. Ahh, the olden days.

 

I never quite understood why they had to leave. Did Pa just randomly pick a place and build a house? Then he found out he wasn't allowed to in the first place? What.

 

Highlight for me was Mr Edwards and his Santa Claus story: "In the southwest, Santa Claus rides a pack mule."

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

I never quite understood why they had to leave. Did Pa just randomly pick a place and build a house? Then he found out he wasn't allowed to in the first place? What.

 

Highlight for me was Mr Edwards and his Santa Claus story: "In the southwest, Santa Claus rides a pack mule."

The pack mule adaptation was pretty neat.

Charles claimed that the place the homestead had been built was three miles over the line into Indian Territory, and everybody coming down the Trail of Tears was entitled to that land instead. In reality, they were a good three miles on the other side of the line, so they could easily have stayed.

Best guess is Charles was doing his usual "Let's scram before everybody I borrowed money from figures out I'm gonna stiff 'em" routine. See also Burr Oak, Walnut Grove, possibly Wisconsin, etc, etc.

[Snow Apple]

I used to be puzzled with Pa's statement that he wished he didn't borrow the nails from Mr. Edwards. I had thought if he didn't borrow them, he still has to buy them; either way, it cost the same. Now I know it's because he would have put them on credit with a store, never to be paid back. Borrowing from Edwards means he actually did have to pay back. He also said he'd grow tobacco next summer to replace what he borrowed from Mr. Scott. Yeah, that happened (sarcasm).

[Mybrainhurts]

Where is Baby Carrie, who until now has been depicted as held by Ma on the wagon seat?

 

That's what happens when an author says everything in the book is true to life when it actually isn't.  Carrie actually wasn't born until after the Ingalls arrived in Kansas (which makes Pa's leaving Wisconsin worse somehow because Ma was probably pregnant when they left).  That's why Pa really took Laura and Mary to the Indian camp--Ma was giving birth to Carrie and didn't want the girls around during that time.  Laura used creative license in saying that she remembered a lot of what happened in LHOTP--she really was only three at the time so unless she had one of the most amazing brains of all time, she probably only heard stories of what Kansas was like.

[juneday]

I can't remember, what was LIW's reasoning behind writing in that Carrie had already been born in Little House in the Big Woods, when she really wasn't until LHOTP? To make them moving sound not as...harsh or hard?

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

I can't remember, what was LIW's reasoning behind writing in that Carrie had already been born in Little House in the Big Woods, when she really wasn't until LHOTP? To make them moving sound not as...harsh or hard?

The events in LHITBW and LHOTP were transposed because RWL didn't believe that readers would buy a three-year-old Laura remembering so much about Kansas. So the events were switched. IRL, the actually moved from Kansas back to Wisconsin, then on to Walnut Grove. Edited August 25, 2014 by Sir RaiderDuck OMS

[sgittinger]

LHOTP was supposed to be the only book; LIW didn't intended to write and entire series so she wrote Carrie in. When she decided to keep going, she had to backtrack and add her to LHITBW.

[Pickles Aplenty]

I liked this book less as an adult.  I think RWL's political agenda kind of ruined it for me.