S03.E05: The Vision Of The Birchwood Prisoner

[AnimeMania]

OCCULT OF PERSONALITY – After a major setback in the Frozen Hearts case, Nancy (Kennedy McMann) asks Temperance (guest star Bo Martynowska) for help with an occult approach to getting answers from a murder suspect. Meanwhile, the Bobbsey entanglement creates a world of trouble for Ace (Alex Saxon), and George (Leah Lewis) has a long-overdue confrontation with someone from her past. Also starring Scott Wolf, Maddison Jaizani and Tunji Kasim. Ruben Garcia directed the episode written by Melinda Hsu Taylor and Leilani Terrell. 

Airdate: Friday, November 5, 2021.

[Cheetara1986]

Definitely a much more emotionally heavy episode then I thought we would get.

- Oh Ace...I really do appreciate the writers giving us a fight in ASL and boy did it hit me right in the feels. I understand both sides, but man Thom, lets not....also are we going to know more about Rebecca's "heart thing", Ace talked about cause I feel like we need more insight on that. Feel like that might come up later.

- George with her father...oh boy, Leah knocked that out of the park and when she called her Dad a disappointment and not a monster, you know hearing that is much worse...Also, I understand why Nick was mad about George keeping this from him, but she is also someone that was forced to be independent at such a young age, and she is so used to doing stuff by herself. She has said to respect that sometimes she needs space, but I also understand Nick wanting to help.

Nick and George fighht reminded me of a littlr big of why Nancy and Nick never worked. Though, I see George and Nick getting through this in the end.

Ryan passing off his chores to Ace for Porsche privileges is hilarious and so on point. But, also Nancy knowing how Ace not only cleans the dishes but stacks them....girl, you in love.

- I wish Nancy was more worried about what Ace was going through in the beginning, but she is so obsessed with FHK, that I feel her being so tunnel vision on it is going to bite her in the ass later on 

[thuganomics85]

This episode definitely went for the feels this go around!

Definitely not a fun time for poor Ace, I see.  I get why he probably felt he needed to try and fix things himself; not just to avoid legal consequences but because he probably felt guilty for his involvement; but he really was putting himself in danger, and I can see why Carson wasn't happy about it and got Thom/Ace's dad involved.  And now thanks to a fight that ends up with Ace's mom finding out about Ace's other brother, Thom has basically booted Ace out of the house.  Yikes, that wasn't pleasant.  At least Ace has already got a place to crash with Nick and George, but I hope things work out better soon.  Alex Saxon and Anthony Natale were fantastic during the argument scene.

So, it looks like George's father really did have her when he was a teenager, but it is still going to take a bit for me to get use to Osric Chau as a father.  Leah Lewis really did a great job with the final confrontation, and I do think calling him a disappointment instead of a monster (like he tried to say) probably hit him harder.  Have to imagine this won't be the last of him since I don't see them casting Osric for the role and only having him for two episodes.

While not fun, I do think the Nick and George confrontation was needed, because the need to keep secrets is bound to cause major issues at some point.  I think it is realistic that George will still have issues fully opening up after everything that has happened to her, but I can see why it frustrates Nick.  I really think he would have taken it better if she had simply said "I got something personal going on, but I'm not ready to tell you, yet" instead of mislead him with the whole "visiting the dentist" thing.  But I have faith that they will work it all out.

Ryan was off fundraising for the youth center, but he might want to stay there longer since he's going to be greeted with a scolding from Carson about passing off his chores to Ace so that Ace can use his car.  Ryan is in trouble!!!  Respect the chore wheel!

Oh, Nancy!  You actually know how Ace stacks dishes.  I think that might be more than just your effective detective skills coming into play.

Bess and Agent Park was a duo I never knew I wanted.  I liked that Park clearly knew something was up, but still went along with it out of amusement.  At least Bess knows that there is a lot more going on with Temperance than what meets the eye, but it seems like she's going to stick with the magical training for now.

So, the Frozen Heart Killer that was captured was actually the copycat and it turns out the original on is naturally some kind of supernatural being that the human one was imitating.  It's never easy, is it?!

[Badsamaritan]

I feel like Temperance has cast some kind of spell, maybe from that scene with the town map, that is causing strife amongst the gang. I'm getting 'Spike causing trouble with the Scooby gang to break them up so Adam would remove his chip' vibes. 

I thought Ace's dad was a decent guy but now I'm not so sure anymore. Withholding the knowledge of his affair and child and forcing Ace to keep that secret from his mother is super fucked up. And then kicking him out for not wanting any part of the lies? He's punishing his son for his own mistakes and not sacking up and telling his wife the truth. That was unexpected and now I'm side eyeing him HARD. 

Bess's distraction duty was hilarious. 

[KaveDweller]

On 11/6/2021 at 8:57 PM, Badsamaritan said:

I feel like Temperance has cast some kind of spell, maybe from that scene with the town map, that is causing strife amongst the gang. I'm getting 'Spike causing trouble with the Scooby gang to break them up so Adam would remove his chip' vibes. 

I thought Ace's dad was a decent guy but now I'm not so sure anymore. Withholding the knowledge of his affair and child and forcing Ace to keep that secret from his mother is super fucked up. And then kicking him out for not wanting any part of the lies? He's punishing his son for his own mistakes and not sacking up and telling his wife the truth. That was unexpected and now I'm side eyeing him HARD. 

Bess's distraction duty was hilarious. 

Yes, kicking Ace out for letting the secret son issue slip seemed pretty cold to me. I know Ace had gotten into a mess with Bobbsey, but he seemed most mad about the wife finding out the secret.

Also, what is with the mother just letting her husband kick her son out? I'd be pretty pissed if I found out my husband had a secret kid, and I certainly wouldn't let him kick out my son for telling me the truth about it.

[quarks]

1. So, wait, just so I'm clear here - nobody told Ace's mother about Grant yet? Like, uh, wow. I honestly do get not telling her before Grant showed up in town, but afterwards? Why not tell her? Did I miss something? (I probably missed something.) I thought Grant was older and was born before Thom and Rebecca even met, so....I don't understand why neither Ace nor Thom said, ok, so we have something to tell you. I know that not that much time has passed on the show since the premiere and the episode where Grant headed back to witness protection, but it hasn't been fifteen minutes yet.

2. So, yeah, I get completely why Rebecca was pissed. I'll also say that I read that scene less as her distressed that her son had just been kicked out of the house, and more trying to figure out what the hell was going on. I'm kinda with her on that one.

3. I also kinda wonder if the parents had already been discussing Ace. Like, it's clear why everyone else is/was working at the Claw (or, in the case of the two extras pretending to be cooks, not working in this episode, but moving on). As George pointed out, she has to support her sisters, and this is their major financial investment/income. Nick needed something to invest in and was trying to help George. Bess is an ex-thief with apparently somewhat questionable papers who has now been disowned by her wealthy relatives. Nancy was dealing with the sudden grief of her mother's death.

Ace, though, seems to be there because he's slacking/drifting. So I wouldn't be at all surprised if his parents had already discussed kicking Ace out of the house to try to give him some incentive to do, well, something else than working at the Claw.

I also wouldn't be at all surprised if this ends up leading to a slight twist later - Ace ends up heading to college while Nancy stays in Horseshoe Bay.

4. All that said, I thought that ASL scene was really strong, with great work from all three actors. (And i was even able to follow some of the signs, so, go me!)

5. And speaking of strong emotional stuff - ok, Ryan Choi does not look anywhere near old enough to be George's dad, even George's teenage dad. But I do like that Nancy Drew continues to let George articulate just how much she's been hurt by various men, telling them so directly. 

6. Nick, you gotta stop demanding that your girlfriends tell you everything immediately. It's not working for you.

7.  Bess continues to be the gift that keeps on giving in this show. Of course she has chemistry with Agent Park. The bit with the dead cat and the funeral? Comedy gold. I love that she can apparently be paired off with anyone on this show and it immediately works.

8. And speaking of comedy, I love that Ryan wasn't even in this episode and still managed to deliver comedy gold through chore wheel avoidance. Though I gotta admit having a bit of sympathy for Ryan here - I'd try to get out of doing dishes too if a chore wheel told me to do that.

9. Temperance, I still don't like you, especially since tonight's episode reminded me that you killed a cat, but as someone who is also at constant war with autocorrect, bravo for using that as your excuse/lie.

[AnimeMania]

Just now, quarks said:

Ace, though, seems to be there because he's slacking/drifting.

Ace has that hacking charge that the former Police Chief seemed to be holding over his head, blackmailing Ace to do odds and ends for him to solve various cases. I am not sure if Ace was ever been formally charged for that.

[quarks]

7 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Ace has that hacking charge that the former Police Chief seemed to be holding over his head, blackmailing Ace to do odds and ends for him to solve various cases. I am not sure if Ace was ever been formally charged for that.

(nods) Right. But my understanding was that as long as Ace did those odds and ends, Ace wouldn't be charged for that. We saw Ace doing those odds and ends, and then we saw the police chief leave town without charging Ace with anything. Granted, in-show that wasn't too long ago - but as of right now, Ace doesn't appear to have any hacking charges hanging over his head. So...legally, at least, he's free there.

But, also. His parents apparently don't know about Ace, the police chief, and the blackmail. So from their viewpoint, they have a son with outstanding computer skills -- good enough, as Carson just suggested, to be making decent money doing something with computers - and who knows ASL, French and a few words of Yiddish, who is working as a line cook/dishwasher in a restaurant that often doesn't have any customers. Who is also managing to get himself into some trouble by freeing Carson from jail and doing various detective stuff with the Drew Crew and was willing to risk his life by drinking that vial to prove it wasn't poison - again, not too long ago in-show. I know Ace said it wasn't a risk because he trusted Nancy, but everyone else in that room thought it was a risk. Thom directly witnessed that, and I can see his parents feeling increasingly concerned about what Ace is doing/not doing. This isn't the first time we've seen Thom get upset - we've just never seen him get this upset/angry.

His parents, meanwhile, have pretty solid jobs as a detective and as a librarian. So I can see them feeling wondering if they are enabling Ace by letting him stay at their house. That whole thing from Thom about Ace still being in his old bedroom seemed to come out of very real anger and frustration, and the fact that Rebecca didn't say anything to defend Ace on that point suggested to me that this was probably not a new talking point for them.

[tennisgurl]

That was certainly an emotionally loaded episode, a whole lot going around with just about everyone. Less supernatural mysteries but a whole lot of good character stuff. 

Ace had a really hard time of it, I can understand him wanting to try and fix the problem himself, feeling guilty about getting suckered into being an accomplish to the elder Bobbsey, but he really is lucky that things went alright (for now) I can understand why Carson was so concerned about him going off on his own. This is definitely not over, and now, to make everything even worse, he accidently let his mom know about his long lost brother and his dad basically kicked him out of the house. Its interesting how that all went down, it sounds like this is a bit of a last straw moment for his dad, he has probably been thinking for awhile about making Ace leave home, from his point of view Ace is a smart kid wasting his potential at a dead end job as a cook at a greasy spoon, he doesn't really know about his side hustle saving the town from murderers and vengeful spirits on a regular basis. That being said, I think his dad is massively in the wrong for keeping Ace's brother a secret from his wife and making Ace keep it a secret for him, even now that he knows his brother. He seemed more pissed off at Ace accidently outing his big secret then Ace accidently getting involved in crime and then putting himself in danger, that's when he actually kicked him out and then had the gull to blame Ace for the whole mess, instead of himself for having an affair then keeping it a huge secret even after his other son arrived in town wanting to meet Ace. I hope that his mom is sufficiently pissed at Thom, this part is on him, not Ace. The actors really killed that ASL fight, you don't get to see people using ASL that much on television, let alone having arguments using it. 

I guess it was inevitable that Nick and George would have some bumps on their road to wedded bliss, and I could see both of their sides. George has had to make it on her own for so long that she really didn't see why not telling Nick that she was looking for her bio dad is a big deal, while Nick is not thrilled that George more or less lied to him about what she was up to. They are getting married and he wants to be her partner, which is hard when George keeps such big things from him. They are really going to need to work on their communication in the future, George doesn't have to tell Nick every single thing but its not unreasonable of Nick to at least want to know the big stuff, but I think that they can make it.

You can tell that Nancy is starting to get tunnel vision on this case, she seemed way too chill about Ace possibly being in trouble, this is definitely going to backfire on her. I liked her working with Constance, but they really should not trust her too much. She might be an ally for now, but she is working for herself before anyone else. Awww Nancy knows right away what Ace's stacking looks like, you really just need to admit to those feelings, its getting more and more obvious. I missed seeing Ryan, but even when he is offscreen My Two Dads is the best sitcom on TV. Trading time in the car for doing the dishes is so on brand, but now he he is going to get a very stern talking to about the sanctity of the chore wheel from Carson at the next family meeting. Respect the importance of the chore wheel!

Bess and Agent Park is a duo I wasn't expected but was happy to get. Bess really does have chemistry with everyone. 

George and her father was great, I really liked her saying that her dad was a disappointment and not a monster, that probably hurt even worse. I suspect that this isn't the last time we will see George's extremely young dad, I don't think they would cast Osric Chau for just one episode. 

[Kaiju Ballet]

14 hours ago, quarks said:

3. I also kinda wonder if the parents had already been discussing Ace. Like, it's clear why everyone else is/was working at the Claw (or, in the case of the two extras pretending to be cooks, not working in this episode, but moving on). As George pointed out, she has to support her sisters, and this is their major financial investment/income. Nick needed something to invest in and was trying to help George. Bess is an ex-thief with apparently somewhat questionable papers who has now been disowned by her wealthy relatives. Nancy was dealing with the sudden grief of her mother's death.

Ace, though, seems to be there because he's slacking/drifting. So I wouldn't be at all surprised if his parents had already discussed kicking Ace out of the house to try to give him some incentive to do, well, something else than working at the Claw.

I also wouldn't be at all surprised if this ends up leading to a slight twist later - Ace ends up heading to college while Nancy stays in Horseshoe Bay.

This makes me think of the exchange between Ace and Carson, which seemed like a throwaway at the time. Carson says something about how with Ace's tech skills, he's surprised Ace isn't a tech billionaire. And Ace says "what makes you think I'm not?"

Later on, a digital payment of $100 almost instantaneously appears after Nick/George says something about Ace texting that he should at least contribute towards food. I remember thinking, that's a lot for someone working as a dishwasher in his millionaire boss's establishment....which serves food.

So I'm all in on the theory that there's more to Ace choosing to work at the Klaw other than lack of financial prospects. In fact, if he does come into money (by revealing his hacked millions, being an NFT kajillionaire, or choose to work in that area for reals) he would only be another in a series of the main characters to have a sudden financial reversal of fortune: starting with Nick, Bess (even though she's cut out....for the moment), Nancy (even though she gave the bulk of it away), Ryan (as a result of Nancy's decision), and possibly even George via Teddy (sign me up for Fan Fan membership!) I even think that Bess is in line to become wealthy again on her current path of studying under Temperance.

And speaking of Temperance....total shallow note. I've come to like the actor's portrayal, but I am increasingly distracted by her Dorothy Hamill haircut, which seems so random. The show has been so on point IMO with everyone else's look-- what is this style supposed to say about her character? (I may be missing it completely, but it seems the rest of her style is deliberate)

[jewel21]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Bess and Agent Park is a duo I wasn't expected but was happy to get. Bess really does have chemistry with everyone. 

This. Their whole exchange was great and the dead zombie cat jumping on Bess cracked me up. The actress is pretty great with the physical comedy. 

I also enjoyed Carson being outraged that Ryan is not respecting the sanctuary of the chore wheel. That whole exchange cracked me up and count me in as someone who would like to be fly on the wall of that family meeting, heh. 

I'm disappointed Papa Ace kicked him out of the house. Ace didn't deliberately "out" his dad's secret son to his mother. I thought that was shitty. I did love all the ASL, though. As a kid, I went through a bit of a Helen Keller phase and really wanted to learn ASL. I only ended up learning the alphabet, only some of which I still remember. 

[quarks]

1 hour ago, Kaiju Ballet said:

This makes me think of the exchange between Ace and Carson, which seemed like a throwaway at the time. Carson says something about how with Ace's tech skills, he's surprised Ace isn't a tech billionaire. And Ace says "what makes you think I'm not?"

Later on, a digital payment of $100 almost instantaneously appears after Nick/George says something about Ace texting that he should at least contribute towards food. I remember thinking, that's a lot for someone working as a dishwasher in his millionaire boss's establishment....which serves food.

So I'm all in on the theory that there's more to Ace choosing to work at the Klaw other than lack of financial prospects.

TBH, that really didn't feel like that much of a throwaway line at the time - and no one has come forward to say that it was adlibbed.

The $100 digital payment, maybe not so much? I mean, yeah, we only know for certain about Ace's job/income from the Claw, but...it's not clear if he was paying his parents rent/utilities, and he presumably isn't paying that much for car insurance on Florence. So I figured he had some money in his checking account, even after his recent road trip. 

On the other hand, this show also made a point of Carson freaking out about a $600 grocery bill (well, for just three/four people, I would have been freaking out about that too), so, yeah, it's possible that the show wanted us to think that Ace has more cash on hand than people suspect he does, and that something else is going on with his decision to work at the Klaw. 

 

[Badsamaritan]

4 hours ago, Kaiju Ballet said:

This makes me think of the exchange between Ace and Carson, which seemed like a throwaway at the time. Carson says something about how with Ace's tech skills, he's surprised Ace isn't a tech billionaire. And Ace says "what makes you think I'm not?"

Later on, a digital payment of $100 almost instantaneously appears after Nick/George says something about Ace texting that he should at least contribute towards food. I remember thinking, that's a lot for someone working as a dishwasher in his millionaire boss's establishment....which serves food.

So I'm all in on the theory that there's more to Ace choosing to work at the Klaw other than lack of financial prospects. In fact, if he does come into money (by revealing his hacked millions, being an NFT kajillionaire, or choose to work in that area for reals) he would only be another in a series of the main characters to have a sudden financial reversal of fortune: starting with Nick, Bess (even though she's cut out....for the moment), Nancy (even though she gave the bulk of it away), Ryan (as a result of Nancy's decision), and possibly even George via Teddy (sign me up for Fan Fan membership!) I even think that Bess is in line to become wealthy again on her current path of studying under Temperance.

And speaking of Temperance....total shallow note. I've come to like the actor's portrayal, but I am increasingly distracted by her Dorothy Hamill haircut, which seems so random. The show has been so on point IMO with everyone else's look-- what is this style supposed to say about her character? (I may be missing it completely, but it seems the rest of her style is deliberate)

I think Temperance's hair is a nod to the era in which she was born. It has an 'old time'-y feel to it which I think is deliberate because she looks young. She's also the only adult woman with short hair, I think. 

It would be funny if Ace is some kind of game designer, and he's based it off some of their cases some how, like Fan Fan but a role playing game of some kind, and it made him rich. And he's just quietly continued on. 

I do hope show doesn't go Dark Willow with Bess. It's such an easy choice to make, I get it. But I want her to be strong enough in her witchy power AND in her empathy power to do what's right without going completely wrong first. 

[AnimeMania]

5 hours ago, Kaiju Ballet said:

Later on, a digital payment of $100 almost instantaneously appears after Nick/George says something about Ace texting that he should at least contribute towards food. I remember thinking, that's a lot for someone working as a dishwasher in his millionaire boss's establishment....which serves food.

That doesn't seem like a lot of money for someone who has a job, lives with their parents and drives an old car. Maybe Ace's side hustle is website administrator for Teddy's Fan-Fan website. If it is a pay-site, that requires a whole other level of computer knowledge and security, if people are paying with credit cards.

[akg]

On 11/6/2021 at 7:59 PM, thuganomics85 said:

At least Ace has already got a place to crash with Nick and George, but I hope things work out better soon

I think the apartment was empty, right? I have no idea how old George's sisters are but they all seem too young to live on their own. So I figured Nick moved in with George (unrelated to this episode but I love Nick's attempts to become part of the other girls' lives. It's adorable).

On 11/6/2021 at 7:59 PM, thuganomics85 said:

So, it looks like George's father really did have her when he was a teenager, but it is still going to take a bit for me to get use to Osric Chau as a father

Hee. My first thought when Osric opened the door was "George has a brother!??!!" so it took a few seconds to process that he was playing her dad. Her mom didn't look that young but I suppose that could be due to having 4 kids to raise on her own that George raised and her general lifestyle.

I was really impressed with George in all of her scenes at the dentist office. I was afraid after the kid with an emergency came in that she was softening (so many shows push the narrative that family should be forgiven all things) so I was relieved it just hammered home what her dad had taken from her by walking away and selfishly leaving her and her mom to deal with a situation he helped create. It's so nice that men can do that.

On 11/7/2021 at 11:03 PM, KaveDweller said:

Yes, kicking Ace out for letting the secret son issue slip seemed pretty cold to me. I know Ace had gotten into a mess with Bobbsey, but he seemed most mad about the wife finding out the secret.

Thom's (and his wife's) characters have never been very consistent. Ace seemed almost afraid of his dad when he first mentioned him and when Nancy wanted to visit. He's been a good dad since (that we've seen) but this fight took him back to the first impression I had of him. I can't remember what Ace said about his mom early on and if this mysterious "heart thing" could explain it but I was surprised she was so nice when she was first seen in person. I do love that everyone knows of and loves her baking though.

On 11/7/2021 at 11:28 PM, quarks said:

I thought Grant was older and was born before Thom and Rebecca even met

I don't think I was ever clear on this point. Was there an affair? Ace seemed older but I don't remember having anything to base that on.

On 11/7/2021 at 11:28 PM, quarks said:

Ace, though, seems to be there because he's slacking/drifting

I'd prefer they do something in-show but I really want to know everyone's ages/backgrounds. I'll take something from a writer's social media at this point. We know Nancy is probably 18-19 based on her taking a year off before college after high school. She and George went to high school together but they didn't mention if they were in the same class. George seems older but that may be because she's had to take on a lot more responsibility early. I think Nick was in high school when he was arrested and then spent 2 years in jail but we don't know what grade he was in (or how long he's been out, right?). Who knows with Bess. Or Ace which means we don't really know how long he's been living with his parents instead of going to college or starting a career.

On 11/8/2021 at 12:50 PM, tennisgurl said:

I can understand him wanting to try and fix the problem himself

I loved the police woman who immediately told the guy she was arresting at the library that Ace wasn't the one who tipped off the cops even though it wasn't a very believable claim. Ace should definitely have stayed hidden until the bad guys were all taken away.

On 11/8/2021 at 6:34 PM, Badsamaritan said:

I do hope show doesn't go Dark Willow with Bess. It's such an easy choice to make, I get it. But I want her to be strong enough in her witchy power AND in her empathy power to do what's right without going completely wrong first. 

Me too. The team needs an expert on the supernatural stuff so there's space and storylines for her. And I never want the group to break up. Small fights are fine but I much prefer the Drew Crew against the world.

[bettername2come]

Ooh, I like how they tied in her daddy issues to her relationship with Ryan. I really thought that Osric Chau was going to be another long lost brother. Yes, he's old enough to be George's teenage father, but that sounds so wrong when he's a year older than Alex Saxon. Nick, she told you immediately after meeting her father. It's not exactly keeping a secret. 

Ryan passing off his chores to Ace - hee hee. Yeah, him being responsible with that seemed a little weird. But he's getting his chores done, so who cares?

Damn, Ace's dad! Kicking him out for not keeping your love child a secret!?! That was so cold. And yet, he's still the number 3 best dad in Horseshoe Bay. But he's behind Ryan and that should fill him with shame. 

On 11/16/2021 at 9:40 PM, akg said:

She and George went to high school together but they didn't mention if they were in the same class. George seems older but that may be because she's had to take on a lot more responsibility early

I think last episode she referred to someone as being "a year behind me and George." And someone else graduating with Ace. So, they graduated together and Ace is probably a year or two older?

Edited December 15, 2022 by bettername2come