S01.E06: Death And The Maiden

[AnimeMania]

Brother Day meets Zephyr Halima - a would-be leader who opposes the Empire. Brother Dusk grows suspicious of Brother Dawn.
Airdate: October 22, 2021 

[Zonk]

Almost an entire episode on Terminus. How "fun".

There was a bit with Empire. That was interesting and Dawn seemed a bit less creepy than the last few weeks.

So there are minor imperfections in the cloning process. But to be honest I don't see how color blindness would be introduced. It would have to be a whole new corruption the the Y-Chromosom and I'd expect a catastrophic illness in that case, before I'd expect colour blindness. I mean it probably is theoretically possible, but exceedingly unlikely. But these writers have never given any shit about science. So why should I expect them to start now? I mean "math" might as well be replaced by "magic" in these scripts and it would make more sense, not less.

That Dawn was so good at hunting the raptors because he's color blind was at least good foreshadowing.

I always find it curious that Empires concubines are exlusively women and that that is taken for granted. There have to have been a few gay or bi Cleons in the line. Even with genetically identical twins you sometimes have pairs where one is straight and one is gay. It's not entirely genetics that determine our sexual orientation. But I doubt the writers know about that...

Day being with that religion... To be honest, the teachings don't seem to be completely at odds with emperial cloning. You could just say that in Empire the sould always reincarnated into the same body and is shared by the three living Cleons, giving it a unique perspective, being able to learn and grow at three times the speed a normal soul would, since it is living three lives at the same time. Maybe he should have schmoozed the charasmatic leader candidate instead of the log of wood and tried to work something out with her.

Nothing here about Hari and Gaal. These writers really know what the audience wants to see. -.-

[KarenX]

7 hours ago, Zonk said:

So there are minor imperfections in the cloning process. But to be honest I don't see how color blindness would be introduced. It would have to be a whole new corruption the the Y-Chromosom and I'd expect a catastrophic illness in that case, before I'd expect colour blindness. I mean it probably is theoretically possible, but exceedingly unlikely. But these writers have never given any shit about science. So why should I expect them to start now? I mean "math" might as well be replaced by "magic" in these scripts and it would make more sense, not less

…SNIP…

I always find it curious that Empires concubines are exlusively women and that that is taken for granted. There have to have been a few gay or bi Cleons in the line. Even with genetically identical twins you sometimes have pairs where one is straight and one is gay. It's not entirely genetics that determine our sexual orientation. But I doubt the writers know about that...

Easy answer first: There were men concubines. I saw at least three. One walking around and two seated, I think.

As for colorblindness and genetics…

This was an episode about MOTHERS and PURPOSE and LIFE CYCLES and A ROBOT’S PURPOSE and I am not so sure that Brother Dawn, decanted in secret, is a clone.

Demerzel told Brother Night or whatever the oldest guy’s name was that he shouldn’t be watching. She is down in the baby room all by herself doing who knows what, really.

I am not rooting for this but it would be interesting to see what would happen if Brother Dawn did fall and die at this age in their trilogy. Or if he smuggled his own offspring into the cycle.

[Zonk]

2 hours ago, KarenX said:

Easy answer first: There were men concubines. I saw at least three. One walking around and two seated, I think.

You are right, there were some in the wide shots in a "blink and you miss it" moment. Still in closeups only women were ever presented as an option for Dawn. So I'm not sure if the men were there as an option for him or maybe more for other important people there.

2 hours ago, KarenX said:

This was an episode about MOTHERS and PURPOSE and LIFE CYCLES and A ROBOT’S PURPOSE and I am not so sure that Brother Dawn, decanted in secret, is a clone.

Demerzel told Brother Night or whatever the oldest guy’s name was that he shouldn’t be watching. She is down in the baby room all by herself doing who knows what, really.

Well he seems to look like all the other Cleons, so he has to be a clone. Also it didn't seem unusual that the clones are decanted in secret. Dusk would have seen that happen once before.

Of course it could be that Demerzel made subtle changes to their DNA over the generations, but I'm leaning towards bad writing. The writers haven't earned the benefit of the doubt, in my opinion.

[marinw]

Demerzel gets a new outfit when they visit Arrakis Desert Planet! That was my main takeway from this episode.

"Out of the woods" The dialogue on this show is so weird. I know that they aren't really speaking English but some sort of Galactic Standard language, so why would such a cliche term last thousands of years?

Also, what is going on with Hari and Gaal? We better get back to them next epsiode.

I'm worried about Botanist Lady. This will not end well for her.

Edited October 23, 2021 by marinw

[FishyJoe]

The Foundation people are driving me crazy. If the fate of the galaxy rests on those people, might as well just flush everything and start over from scratch. 

[Lokiberry]

11 hours ago, Zonk said:

So there are minor imperfections in the cloning process. But to be honest I don't see how color blindness would be introduced. It would have to be a whole new corruption the the Y-Chromosom and I'd expect a catastrophic illness in that case, before I'd expect colour blindness. I mean it probably is theoretically possible, but exceedingly unlikely. But these writers have never given any shit about science. So why should I expect them to start now? I mean "math" might as well be replaced by "magic" in these scripts and it would make more sense, not less.

Demerzel probably made some changes because identical clones is against her religion. Which she must have just got after 400 years of being cool with the clones.

 

11 hours ago, Zonk said:

I always find it curious that Empires concubines are exlusively women and that that is taken for granted. There have to have been a few gay or bi Cleons in the line. Even with genetically identical twins you sometimes have pairs where one is straight and one is gay. It's not entirely genetics that determine our sexual orientation. But I doubt the writers know about that..

David Goyer straighwashed Leonardo Da Vinci, so don't expect any gay in that galaxy. They probably drown you for it. 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Lokiberry

[jane1978]

The stuff on Terminus is just your standard syfi space opera now, just with a better budget. Which I quess is fitting because Salvor reminds me the main character from KillJoys. But what the hell was that flashback masked as vision where we finally saw Hari planning his "murder"? Like, even if the Vault is responsible for the visions, it injects Salvor with this particular information 30 years after the fact, just when Gaal discover the body? But why? How it is anyway usefull in her situation?

The last thing I would wanted to have around as Empire is a creepy acting AI robot who also happens to be a religious fanatic. And why he even let that space Oprah enter the ceremony and steal the show? That was such a stupid move. 

Yeah, that florist girl is playing a dangerous game. Even if the young Empire is truly interested in her now, that could eventually change. Or his brothers discover their relationship and gets rid of her. There just isn´t a scenario where it could end well for her. Besides, am I the only one who thinks this newest "nicer" Empire will eventually turn to be the worst of them all? He just seems like a typical psychopat in making. And he is fascinated with death, that´s never a good sign.

The Anacreons spend hours just randomly shooting anyone in sight, yet all the people they needed happens to survive? Whatever. But it´s good Salvor and her dad decided to bond just minutes before he goes and sacrifices himself for no reason.

Six episodes in and I still have zero idea what the big Plan is about.

[marinw]

So why shoot down the Imperial Ship supposedly capable of jumping through space and then highjack a slow ship? Did I miss something?

Edited October 24, 2021 by marinw

[marinw]

15 hours ago, jane1978 said:

Which I quess is fitting because Salvor reminds me the main character from KillJoys.

Good comaprison, but KillJoys was a little goofy and fun. This show takes itself sooooo seriously.

As others have written, too bad the showrunners didn't have enough faith in the novels' original concept of math, statitistics and predictions providing the drama.

Edited October 24, 2021 by marinw

[pezgirl7]

As a layperson who does not study math and science, I really don’t care that the show doesn’t follow real world scenarios. All the math equations just seem like your typical, made up for Hollywood stuff. It’s science fiction and is filled with things that could probably never happen. I would assume most people watching are not educated in the complex theories the show is trying to portray. But I can see how it could be frustrating for people who are!

I’m still more interested in the Brothers. The ledge scene with Brother Dawn and the gardener really had me worried. We didn’t see them getting off the ledge, but I’m assuming they’re fine. For now. 😬 I’m guessing Dawn spilled the beans to the concubine, who then told everything to Dusk. That was a pretty mean trick.

I suppose the escape pod is like the door from Titanic. It couldn’t hold two people because of Plot!

Edited October 25, 2021 by pezgirl7

[marinw]

Another nitpick: Does the moon of Not Arrakis have an ocean? A deslaination system won't be useful if there is nothing to desalinate!

This show has more than a small amount of contempt for religon. Interesting. Reminds me of some ST:TNG episodes, particularly  "Who watches the Watchers".

Edited October 25, 2021 by marinw

[marinw]

10 hours ago, pezgirl7 said:

As a layperson who does not study math and science, I really don’t care that the show doesn’t follow real world scenarios. All the math equations just seem like your typical, made up for Hollywood stuff. It’s science fiction and is filled with things that could probably never happen. I would assume most people watching are not educated in the complex theories the show is trying to portray.

The art/science/math of predicting things CAN be dramatic. As a couple of real-world examples, during the 00's and 10's epidemilogists warned us of a great Pandemic. Ditto for other scientists warning us all about climate change. What happens when a society ignors or heeds warnings can make for a compelling story. As I have said before, the showrunners don't trust this premise as the, erm, "foundation" for this show, and have thus pasted some generic Star Wars/Duneish thing on top of some math things. The math itself isn't that specific and is handwaved away as being too complicated for anyone but math geneuises like Gaal to understand. To be fair, this may have been true of the Novels as well, it's been a long time since i read them.

Edited October 25, 2021 by marinw

[pezgirl7]

 

12 hours ago, marinw said:

Another nitpick: Does the moon of Not Arrakis have an ocean? A deslaination system won't be useful if there is nothing to desalinate!

Maybe there are a lot of underground sources and wells, but they’re all contaminated with salt?

One thing I forgot to mention in my first post is that I didn’t realize that the personal force fields the Brothers wear is just a bracelet that can be removed. Makes me wonder if Dawn was really trying to kill himself, or maybe he was just so distraught that he forgot to take it off, or didn’t think it would be able to protect him from that great a fall. 

[KarenX]

1 hour ago, pezgirl7 said:

 

Maybe there are a lot of underground sources and wells, but they’re all contaminated with salt?

One thing I forgot to mention in my first post is that I didn’t realize that the personal force fields the Brothers wear is just a bracelet that can be removed. Makes me wonder if Dawn was really trying to kill himself, or maybe he was just so distraught that he forgot to take it off, or didn’t think it would be able to protect him from that great a fall. 

Or he is so bored/disaffected he wanted to see what it would feel like to fall, just so he could feel something new. Or wanted to get the gardener’s attention without shouting. Or it’s a shortcut he uses a lot to avoid people inside and didn’t expect anyone to see him.

[Netfoot]

Another episode without the smallest shred of the original source material.

The arrogance of these writers to assume that they can come up with a better story than Asimov. And all they come up with is this treacle-slow crap, with a few explosions thrown in for spice.

And so, another literary masterpiece destroyed by modern cinema's inability to avoid fixing what isn't broken.

Sorry, but I'm out.

[xaxat]

OK, my favorite character is the Proxima elect. Her speech was fire, straight out of the cadence of the Black Baptist church. The only thing missing was a "Can I get an amen!" Even Demerzel, who has no soul according to the tenets of the church, was moved by the speech. On top of all that, she essentially called Empire a soulless abomination to his face.

Everything else? Meh. And as others have mentioned, decidedly not Asimov.

[ferjy]

On 10/22/2021 at 7:10 PM, marinw said:

Also, what is going on with Hari and Gaal? We better get back to them next epsiode.

I know. After that tease ending last episode seeing Hari (alive?), nothing this episode. 😕

 

[ferjy]

On 10/22/2021 at 7:10 PM, marinw said:

Demerzel gets a new outfit when they visit Arrakis Desert Planet! That was my main takeway from this episode.

lol The new dress must be as stiff as her usual frock, her arms are still sticking out like sore elbows thumbs. 

 

[edhopper]

So Day, who destroys whole planets with the wave of his hand, stands there as the Prime wannabe disrespects him and insults him? What am I missing here?

(I know that was another Day, but still...)

[Ottis]

Wow, this show is slow. Slooooooooooowwwwwww. Slower than me getting around to watching this show. That ship take off at the end took 10 minutes just by itself.

Somewhere in this mess is a story about empiric control and the fanaticism of religion, but it’s hard to fathom.