S01.E05: Upon Awakening

[AnimeMania]

A flashback reveals the origin of Gaal's conflict between faith and science. The standoff on Terminus takes an unfortunate turn.

Premiere Date: October 15, 2021

[AnimeMania]

Something really rubbed me the wrong way about Gaal's backstory. Gaal's parents and the rest of their society looked like they wouldn't know which end of a light bulb to screw in. I find it hard to believe that Gaal was that knowledgeable about math and science and the culture of other worlds and how to use a spaceship's computer, etc.

I would have been more inclined to believe it if Gaal's parents were brilliant scientists who with a group of other brilliant scientists spent years creating a survival bunker colony by moving to the highest point on the planet to escape the oncoming rise of the seas when they predicted a devastating climatic event would occur as the rest of the planet ignored their warnings. Then, the community was co-opted by a massive group of violence condoning anti-science religious zealots seeking refuge while at the same blaming what happened to the planet and the failure to save it on the scientists, and used sadistic methods, forcing the colony to partake in a more simplistic and spiritual lifestyle devoid of technology.

Gaal's parents get jobs as guards keeping people out of the super high tech library that was partially submerged underwater.  Gaal's parents build their house in the doorway of the library to block all from entering. A rogue group of scientists (who's presence is only known by Gaal and Gaal's parents and few scientists scattered throughout the community) are hiding inside of the library building keeping knowledge alive while the rest of society collapsed, (living a version of the prophecy that Seldon predicted). Gaal and her parents spend a great deal of time in library in the rogue scientists' company, who still use computers, have communication and monitoring devices and other electrical equipment.

One of the scientists who chose not to hide in the library, who is also one of Gaal's mentors and knows about the other scientists, is labeled a heretic and drowned using his possessions, Gaal dives underwater to retrieve an object that was of great historical scientific significance to Gaal and her mentor. While Gall is underwater you see a technologically advanced city. As Gaal paddles her boat around to different areas you see the tops of futuristic buildings, then you see Gaal scrape moss from the sides of buildings, gather seaweed, fish and mollusks from the slightly submerged floors or roofs of buildings and birds and eggs from the exposed roofs. Most of the food she collects goes back to the colony, but a small portion is hidden in her boat for a certain group of intellectuals. I would have Gaal learn of and enter the contest using the communication devices in the library.

I guess I wouldn't change the Terminus story.

[marinw]

Can someone mathy tell me if Gaal's workaround makes sense, or if she was just spouting technobable. 

Not sure what to make of this show. This episode drew me in, especially Gaal trapped aboard the mystery ship. But something is missing.

Was that Hari or a Hari Hologram? I suppose we will find out.

6 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I would have Gaal learn of and enter the contest using the communication devices in the library.

How did Gaal know of the contest in the first place?

Edited October 16, 2021 by marinw

[AnimeMania]

5 minutes ago, marinw said:

Can someone mathy tell me if Gaal's workaround makes sense, or if she was just spouting technobable. 

The podcast said that they consulted several astrophysicists to figure out a way to make the scene realistic, but may have indulged a bit to make it seem more exciting. 

[Zonk]

That Hari wasn't dead was crystal clear when they said they shot him into space "in a coffin he designed".

 

So it seems the original plan was for Raych to get into the cryo pod and be picked up all these years later, since he has access to the ships controls. But Gaal realised that something wasn't right in the math, ran to Hari's quarters, interrupted the plan and so Raych had to sacrifice himself for her.

 

A dark star? As in a star comprised of mostly dark matter? As far as I know those are theoretical stars that might have existed in the early Universe, but probably not anymore, if they even existed at all. I'm not even convinced dark matter exists (the mass difference we see in the universe might be explained by primordial black holes). Also if such a star existed it wouldn't be dark, it would shine like a super massive star. It's just called a dark star because it produces it's energy by the annihilation of dark matter (theoretically of course).

Or do they mean Antimatter stars? Those would also shine much like normal stars.

The only thing you couldn't see would be a black hole and yes planets can and do orbit them, but there wouldn't just be one known planet and why wouldn't they just call it a black hole? Also those planets would be very cold. But that goes for everything orbiting anything you can't actually see...

 

Those Anacreons shoot like storm troopers.

 

10 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Something really rubbed me the wrong way about Gaal's backstory. Gaal's parents and the rest of their society looked like they wouldn't know which end of a light bulb to screw in. I find it hard to believe that Gaal was that knowledgeable about math and science and the culture of other worlds and how to use a spaceship's computer, etc.

To be fair, it seems like a very recent development. The guy who got executed said he used to have scientific discussions with her parents and Gaal was there for those. Then some religious purge came and her parents fell in line.

I mean look at pictures of Iran from the 70s and then from the 80s onwards. You'll see a pretty big shift (thank you CIA /s).

 

6 hours ago, marinw said:

Was that Hari or a Hari Hologram? I suppose we will find out.

That was Hari.  Seems like some kind of stasis (time freezy) shenanigans going on there. Probably the same technology they send the vault back in time with eventually.

[AnimeMania]

28 minutes ago, Zonk said:

So it seems the original plan was for Raych to get into the cryo pod and be picked up all these years later, since he has access to the ships controls. But Gaal realised that something wasn't right in the math, ran to Hari's quarters, interrupted the plan and so Raych had to sacrifice himself for her.

It looked like there was room enough in the pod for two people.

[Zonk]

1 hour ago, AnimeMania said:

It looked like there was room enough in the pod for two people.

I can believe that the life support systems in it could only support one person. That is the least my suspension of disbelieve has been strained this entire show. 😆

[Jack Shaftoe]

7 hours ago, Zonk said:

A dark star? As in a star comprised of mostly dark matter? As far as I know those are theoretical stars that might have existed in the early Universe, but probably not anymore, if they even existed at all. I'm not even convinced dark matter exists (the mass difference we see in the universe might be explained by primordial black holes). Also if such a star existed it wouldn't be dark, it would shine like a super massive star. It's just called a dark star because it produces it's energy by the annihilation of dark matter (theoretically of course).

Or do they mean Antimatter stars? Those would also shine much like normal stars.

I suspect you have put more thought into this than the writers did. To them, dark star probably sounded cooler, end of story.

18 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Something really rubbed me the wrong way about Gaal's backstory. 

You mean apart from the fact that it lasted for like 20 minutes and told us absolutely nothing new about her backstory except make it even more nonsensical? How would Gaal even know about the existence of some math competition, let alone learn enough math in what looked like mere months to become a bona fide prodigy?

Edited October 16, 2021 by Jack Shaftoe

[marinw]

Can a habitable planet orbit a Dark Star?

[Zonk]

4 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

I suspect you have put more thought into this than the writers did. To them, dark star probably sounded cooler, end of story.

*sigh* I'm sure you are right. I had so much hope for this show. Why can't every show be The Expanse?

6 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

You mean apart from the fact that it lasted for like 20 minutes and told us absolutely nothing new about her backstory except make it even more nonsensical? How would Gaal even know about the existence of some math competition, let alone learn enough math in what looked like mere months to become a bona fide prodigy?

That's more of a complaint I would have with this, too. It didn't tell us anything new about her, didn't reallly progress her character, nothing.

And how she would have heard about the competition is a really good question.

5 hours ago, marinw said:

Can a habitable planet orbit a Dark Star?

Considering stars you can't see don't exist: No. Planets can't orbit imaginary stars. ;)

[ferjy]

I was happy to see the flashback. I find Gaal and Hari’s scenes far more interesting than the Terminus storyline. I much prefer watching Gaal trying to outsmart the ship (even if it’s over our heads 😄) than watching the Terminus shootout and Salvor’s cat fight. I found this was a better episode.

And... they’re bringing Hari back! Now we’re talking. 

 

[Netfoot]

I struggled to watch this. It dragged on and on and on!

And once again, not a shred of original Foundation plot appears here. Not so far as I can see.

[edhopper]

I really tire when some of the smartest people in the Galaxy and a Imperial war ship with what should be trained soldiers who should understand battle tactics act like such idiotic fools, but the Mary Sue sees it all.

[MissLucas]

On 10/27/2021 at 10:00 PM, edhopper said:

I really tire when some of the smartest people in the Galaxy and a Imperial war ship with what should be trained soldiers who should understand battle tactics act like such idiotic fools, but the Mary Sue sees it all.

I was rather confused that the Mary Sue never mentioned the cloaked cannon/gun/gizmo in any of her communications. 

[Ottis]

On 10/27/2021 at 4:00 PM, edhopper said:

I really tire when some of the smartest people in the Galaxy and a Imperial war ship with what should be trained soldiers who should understand battle tactics act like such idiotic fools, but the Mary Sue sees it all.

Especially when 1) no one bothers to immediately tell the Imperial soldiers there is a cloaked heavy weapon on the ground, and 2) Salvor, knowing the bad guys were headed to the tower, first runs to … where the bad guy last was and not to the tower. This ep was silly.

[Tachi Rocinante]

On 10/17/2021 at 2:00 PM, Netfoot said:

And once again, not a shred of original Foundation plot appears here. Not so far as I can see.

Except, IMO, the source material is a chore and not very good, even for how short it is.  Asimov had some great ideas but was a fair to average writer. 

[Netfoot]

3 minutes ago, Tachi Rocinante said:

Except, IMO, the source material is a chore and not very good, even for how short it is.  Asimov had some great ideas but was a fair to average writer. 

Maybe so. But I think that if you pay for the rights to a classic, well loved piece of intellectual property to make a movie or TV series, the more you depart from the original source material, the more you are ruining the IP. 

There have been some instances where the only part of the original that remains in the new production is the name of the movie and perhaps the name of one or two of the characters, with the plot of the movie and every other facet of the characters themselves altered to such a degree that the viewer would be unable to identify the original IP if it weren't for these names, which were the only thing preserved.

Yes, I'm looking at you, I, Robot / Will Smith!

[astrohip]

On 10/17/2021 at 1:00 PM, Netfoot said:

And once again, not a shred of original Foundation plot appears here. Not so far as I can see.

17 hours ago, Netfoot said:

Maybe so. But I think that if you pay for the rights to a classic, well loved piece of intellectual property to make a movie or TV series, the more you depart from the original source material, the more you are ruining the IP. 

 

This is an adaptation. The writers will make changes, to make it the best story they can tell for TV (or a movie, if that's the case). And sometimes those changes can be drastic.

As someone who loves the books (read them multiple times), I was initially upset with this series. It was so different, it didn't follow the books.

Then I came to realize there was no way to do that. The books had characters change every few years. TV series need some continuity, so they came up with the idea of clones, and suspended hibernation. The books were written (for the most part) in the 1950s. Too many archaic story lines, that didn't age well. So the writers changed them.

I went from hating it, to loving it, once I understood what they were doing. I even rewatched S1, and realized it was a great story, and my short-sightedness was the only reason I didn't love it the first time thru.

Next big change is The Mule. Let's see how they handle that.

tl;dr   Accept this is a TV adaptation of a great book series,and enjoy it for what it is.

[Netfoot]

6 minutes ago, astrohip said:

I went from hating it, to loving it, once I understood what they were doing.

I went from hating it to really hating it.

If they wanted to adapt it to be significantly different, perhaps they might have said so in the title. But no, they used the original title and the name of the author in order to suck in viewers who thought they were going to see a production of that story by that author.

I'm glad for you that you were/are able to enjoy it. I am/was most definitely not able to do so.

In any case, I have no idea why I'm still discussing this. I have deleted it from my life - it is no longer a part of my reality.