S6.10: Goddesses of War

[Mr. Miner]

5 minutes ago, RealReality said:

She always has those kids with her.  And about 80% of the time the first thing she does is whip out a boob and start breastfeeding. 

Which is using motherhood as a way to shield herself from the criticism and preemptively gather audience sympathy.    

She needs a dedicated full time nanny or a demotion.  

It's not garnering any sympathy from me. Two seasons she's been using her kids as a shield. I think most of the audience is over it. I thought for sure she was going to whip out the "double pumper" when she met Karen.

[StillHere]

18 hours ago, qtpye said:

I have to ask...is this a giant surprise to her?

Did she envision that she could create a power couple with this man?

I actually like Chris but do not think that this 42-year-old is going to suddenly become a mover/shaker anytime soon.

So far his most successful financial venture has been marrying her.

There are a lot of us (black folks) that find that kind of smarmy “swag” appealing. I think she’d liked that he found black women attractive, flattered even – never mind his underachievement or that he’s clearly 2 shakes from the trailer park.

Years ago, someone here wrote she would never marry a Reggie who managed Ben’s Chili Bowl. And I agree with that.

Bassett has more baby mamas and kids than assets, jobs, or degrees. Up until this year she and production have been trying to convince us he's a baller. The bloom is off the rose.

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, StillHere said:

There are a lot of us (black folks) that find that kind of smarmy “swag” appealing. I think she’d liked that he found black women attractive, flattered even – never mind his underachievement or that he’s clearly 2 shakes from the trailer park.

Years ago, someone here wrote she would never marry a Reggie who managed Ben’s Chili Bowl. And I agree with that.

Bassett has more baby mamas and kids than assets, jobs, or degrees. Up until this year she and production have been trying to convince us he's a baller. The bloom is off the rose.

A lot of the bloggers have commented that if Chris had been an African American man, there is no way Candiass or Dorothy would have accepted him.

Edited to add-I am not trying to be superficial but what is Chris really bringing to the table? Sure, he seems like a cool guy to hang out with but that's about it.

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by qtpye

[drivethroo]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

A lot of the bloggers have commented that if Chris had been an African American man, there is no way Candiass or Dorothy would have accepted him.

They are correct but not for the reason they think.  It's also why they were offended at Candiace's "bedwench" remarks towards Ashley. They think Candiace/Dorothy worship the whiteness.

• Dorothy does not really accept Chris and only does so for Candiace's sake.
• Candiace (IMO) was rebelling against what Dorothy wanted for her as a mate and brought home the total opposite, which was Chris.

I don't think Candiace would've entertained Chris, the black meter reader at PepCo.  But I also don't think Candiace would've entertained Chris, the white staffer on Capitol Hill, either.

Candiace could have found herself a black man more along the lines of what Dorothy wanted for her, but those black men also may have wanted a woman who looked like Robyn/Gizelle, not Candiace.

2 hours ago, qtpye said:

Edited to add-I am not trying to be superficial but what is Chris really bringing to the table? Sure, he seems like a cool guy to hang out with but that's about it.

Chris likes women of color and I think he fawned over her in a way perhaps the black men she had dated didn't.

A "bedwench" is supposedly a black/non-white woman who lays down with a white man for interest.  Candiace could leave Chris today and her life materially would pretty much be the same. She doesn't have to be with Chris for material things; she chooses to be.

Ashley has to be with Michael for material gain.  If Ashley & Michael split today, she would have to move to another, less desirable location.  She might get to keep her car if it's in her name.  Michael would have all of her credit cards cut off if she hadn't established her own account.  This is someone whose husband wouldn't let them have international on their phone. Ashley has to defend Michael's endless parades of assault charges & general foolery because if she doesn't, all of her material enjoyments go away.

By this supposed definition of "bedwench," Ashley is the bedwench, not Candiace.  I think it eats people like Ashley (and Monique) up that Candiace doesn't have to lay on her back like they do to get material enjoyments and that's why they kept bringing up her momma and calling her a little girl.

[RealReality]

Dorothy married a black doctor.  I dont think she is putting white men on a pedestal. It's possible it just seems like she wanted for candace what she wanted for herself .

I think candiace could have absolutely married a black professional.  

But as @drivethroosaid, that man may not have been as patient with candiace as Chris is..  

I think Chris loves his crazy wife and I think candiace loves her shiftless husband.  

Whenever they do a couples confessional they really appear to enjoy each other's company and at the end of the day, to me, this is the most important. 

Juan can barely look at Robyn and Michael always looks like he'd rather be anywhere else.  Even Gordon and Mia seem okay but not particularly happy.  And gizelle is just a whole mess. 

Edited September 15, 2021 by RealReality

[spunky]

13 hours ago, drivethroo said:

They are correct but not for the reason they think.  It's also why they were offended at Candiace's "bedwench" remarks towards Ashley. They think Candiace/Dorothy worship the whiteness.

• Dorothy does not really accept Chris and only does so for Candiace's sake.
• Candiace (IMO) was rebelling against what Dorothy wanted for her as a mate and brought home the total opposite, which was Chris.

I don't think Candiace would've entertained Chris, the black meter reader at PepCo.  But I also don't think Candiace would've entertained Chris, the white staffer on Capitol Hill, either.

Candiace could have found herself a black man more along the lines of what Dorothy wanted for her, but those black men also may have wanted a woman who looked like Robyn/Gizelle, not Candiace.

Chris likes women of color and I think he fawned over her in a way perhaps the black men she had dated didn't.

A "bedwench" is supposedly a black/non-white woman who lays down with a white man for interest.  Candiace could leave Chris today and her life materially would pretty much be the same. She doesn't have to be with Chris for material things; she chooses to be.

Ashley has to be with Michael for material gain.  If Ashley & Michael split today, she would have to move to another, less desirable location.  She might get to keep her car if it's in her name.  Michael would have all of her credit cards cut off if she hadn't established her own account.  This is someone whose husband wouldn't let them have international on their phone. Ashley has to defend Michael's endless parades of assault charges & general foolery because if she doesn't, all of her material enjoyments go away.

By this supposed definition of "bedwench," Ashley is the bedwench, not Candiace.  I think it eats people like Ashley (and Monique) up that Candiace doesn't have to lay on her back like they do to get material enjoyments and that's why they kept bringing up her momma and calling her a little girl.

Candiace said on her podcast that she never envisioned marrying someone like Chris.  She always saw herself marrying a Black doctor or lawyer. Originally she wasn't interested in him as a romantic partner,  she fell in love with him after being friends with him for 2 years.

[StillHere]

20 hours ago, qtpye said:

A lot of the bloggers have commented that if Chris had been an African American man, there is no way Candiass or Dorothy would have accepted him.

Edited to add-I am not trying to be superficial but what is Chris really bringing to the table? Sure, he seems like a cool guy to hang out with but that's about it.

 

My dirty mind assumed that Brown Dick was throwing down, but Candiace said the sex was ‘decent’ so that ain’t it. 

In the end, it comes down to character. 

During their 1st season, he gave that cock-and-bull story about the mother of his child not allowing him to see his kid, then squeezed out a tear. Poppycock, man.  Anybody with connected brains cells and a desire to see their offspring knows That Is What Courts are for. Willfully not providing for ones children causes generational trauma. At a baseline, that's bum behavior in the hood.  If you love your child, dude, fight for him.

That speaks volumes about who he is and what he values.

[Rlb8031]

12 minutes ago, StillHere said:

My dirty mind assumed that Brown Dick was throwing down, but Candiace said the sex was ‘decent’ so that ain’t it. 

In the end, it comes down to character. 

During their 1st season, he gave that cock-and-bull story about the mother of his child not allowing him to see his kid, then squeezed out a tear. Poppycock, man.  Anybody with connected brains cells and a desire to see their offspring knows That Is What Courts are for. Willfully not providing for ones children causes generational trauma. At a baseline, that's bum behavior in the hood.  If you love your child, dude, fight for him.

That speaks volumes about who he is and what he values.

I'm not sure how his dustup with one of his ex's makes him a bum. He's clearly and involved dad with the other kids - they purchased a house large enough for the kids to be accommodated, not something you do if you aren't interested in being involved. While I think Candiace is fine being stepmom, I don't get the sense she's the one driving that particular bus. So, why isn't his relationship with one set of offspring proof of non-bummy-ness rather than the lack of a relationship cementing the "ain't s&$!" narrative? Also, I don't think that Chris doesn't want to work - that's never been said or alleged. 

My take, he's an average white boy doing average white boy jobs who Candiace has tried to talk up (owns the restaurant rather than manages, from some successful WV family, etc) because she knew he wouldn't play up as well against former NBA player, former NFL player, BBG, real estate mogul, and megachurch scam artist. I wish they would let him just be Chris from around the 'way but that would expose Candiace to some jabs that she isn't ready to counter...

[StillHere]

1 hour ago, Rlb8031 said:

I'm not sure how his dustup with one of his ex's makes him a bum. He's clearly and involved dad with the other kids - they purchased a house large enough for the kids to be accommodated, not something you do if you aren't interested in being involved. While I think Candiace is fine being stepmom, I don't get the sense she's the one driving that particular bus. So, why isn't his relationship with one set of offspring proof of non-bummy-ness rather than the lack of a relationship cementing the "ain't s&$!" narrative? Also, I don't think that Chris doesn't want to work - that's never been said or alleged. 

 

I didn’t write that a dust-up with an ex makes him a bum, nor did I suggest it. (Dust-ups happen all time – estrangement from a child is a whole other thing.)  What’s bummy is claiming the oldest child isn’t in his life because his ex won’t allow it.

Bullocks. That’s glib and intellectually dishonest. That’s what mediators are for.  

By the way, it was Candiace who initiated the ain’t sh*t narrative* by identifying him as a “deadbeat” just like “his father”. Her words. And while those words were her hurtful, in a Candiace fashion, I don’t think she was pulling them out of her ass.  

*(As a black man, whose been busting my ass since birth, I’m particularly sensitive to ain’t sh*t narratives so the lack of true exploration of this storyline on the show is fascinating.)

Edited September 15, 2021 by StillHere

[qtpye]

2 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

I'm not sure how his dustup with one of his ex's makes him a bum. He's clearly and involved dad with the other kids - they purchased a house large enough for the kids to be accommodated, not something you do if you aren't interested in being involved. While I think Candiace is fine being stepmom, I don't get the sense she's the one driving that particular bus. So, why isn't his relationship with one set of offspring proof of non-bummy-ness rather than the lack of a relationship cementing the "ain't s&$!" narrative? Also, I don't think that Chris doesn't want to work - that's never been said or alleged. 

My take, he's an average white boy doing average white boy jobs who Candiace has tried to talk up (owns the restaurant rather than manages, from some successful WV family, etc) because she knew he wouldn't play up as well against former NBA player, former NFL player, BBG, real estate mogul, and megachurch scam artist. I wish they would let him just be Chris from around the 'way but that would expose Candiace to some jabs that she isn't ready to counter...

You hit the nail on the head.

Candiass has a right to marry who she wants but hyping up Chris just makes her look stupid and that she is ashamed of who she married.

Dorothy looked so pathetic when she claimed that Chris comes from a monied background. If that is true then why did Candiass have to beg her father for money to pay for the wedding?

Why was neither Chris nor his supposedly wealthy family chipping in with some cash?

[amarante]

Beyond Ashley's mothering being performative, am I the only person who was appalled that she was bringing her infant into public spaces during the pandemic. I mean it isn't generally recommended even in non-plague times but why the fuck would anyone bring an infant to a restaurant - I don't go to restaurants and expose myself to whatever is floating around in the air - and this was filmed pre-vaccination when many places still didn't allow indoor restaurant dining at all because of the health risks. 

She doesn't even have the excuse of needing child care like working woman might since she has a nanny at home to take care of the kid. And she can certainly leave breast milk as she was shown to have a supply when they went to Williamsburg

[qtpye]

7 minutes ago, amarante said:

Beyond Ashley's mothering being performative, am I the only person who was appalled that she was bringing her infant into public spaces during the pandemic. I mean it isn't generally recommended even in non-plague times but why the fuck would anyone bring an infant to a restaurant - I don't go to restaurants and expose myself to whatever is floating around in the air - and this was filmed pre-vaccination when many places still didn't allow indoor restaurant dining at all because of the health risks. 

She doesn't even have the excuse of needing child care like working woman might since she has a nanny at home to take care of the kid. And she can certainly leave breast milk as she was shown to have a supply when they went to Williamsburg

Also, just like Michael expected his female workers to care for the baby when he brings him to the office, I bet you Ashley has no problem with the crew looking after her baby when needed, even though that is not in their job description.

Edited September 16, 2021 by qtpye

[RealReality]

On 9/15/2021 at 12:42 PM, StillHere said:

 

*(As a black man, whose been busting my ass since birth, I’m particularly sensitive to ain’t sh*t narratives so the lack of true exploration of this storyline on the show is fascinating.)

This is an interesting point and I could see where it would be somewhat infuriating.  

Peter Thomas was constantly called out for being bummy, and he WAS a bummy user.  I also think he was an asshole who I expected to go full madea to get a peach.  

But Chris seems to get a bit of a pass for a guy who, at this point, doesn't seem to have a job.  It may be because of his personality, which is laid back, but protective of Candiace, and I think the other women on the cast (I vaguely remember him telling creepy Michael Darby to buzz off when he was trying to intimidate Gizelle at the reunion, but I could be misremembering that).  

However, if those private cooking classes are all he is doing, he is essentially jobless, because I refuse to believe there is some massive audience dropping $1,000 on the regular and then paying $75 per person for his classes.  When Candiace said thats what he was doing, I really assumed that he was doing some sort of direct to consumer online cooking class you could sign up for. 

What he is actually doing seems stupid, and perhaps designed so he can TECHNICALLY say he is doing cooking classes without actually DOING them.   

Its fair to think that if Chris were not a white guy, he would be called out as "ain't shit" and I think thats an interesting point.  

 

[RealReality]

On 9/13/2021 at 5:50 PM, qtpye said:

I have to ask...is this a giant surprise to her?

Did she envision that she could create a power couple with this man?

I actually like Chris but do not think that this 42-year-old is going to suddenly become a mover/shaker anytime soon.

 

I think it can happen, like sometimes you really can fool yourself into thinking that you can make someone "good on paper"

I had a boyfriend in law school and he was a nice guy, but he wasn't very good on paper.  He was incredibly patient and he nearly worshipped me, but he just wasn't a go getter.  And I come from a family of fairly judgmental "go-getters" so even if you don't see the judgment from your family, you always know its there.  

My boyfriend was smart and capable and I really thought I could make him want more than what he wanted.  What he wanted was his kinda basic job and penny pinching to make a mortgage he couldn't afford.  He had been raised not to think very highly of himself or to see his gifts, but even if he could, he didn't seem to want for himself what I wanted for him.  We broke up for a lot of reasons, but I think the more I tried to get him to be "good on paper" the more insecure it made him and that was that.

I hope he is safe, he had a very customer facing job

[qtpye]

15 minutes ago, RealReality said:

I think it can happen, like sometimes you really can fool yourself into thinking that you can make someone "good on paper"

I had a boyfriend in law school and he was a nice guy, but he wasn't very good on paper.  He was incredibly patient and he nearly worshipped me, but he just wasn't a go getter.  And I come from a family of fairly judgmental "go-getters" so even if you don't see the judgment from your family, you always know its there.  

My boyfriend was smart and capable and I really thought I could make him want more than what he wanted.  What he wanted was his kinda basic job and penny pinching to make a mortgage he couldn't afford.  He had been raised not to think very highly of himself or to see his gifts, but even if he could, he didn't seem to want for himself what I wanted for him.  We broke up for a lot of reasons, but I think the more I tried to get him to be "good on paper" the more insecure it made him and that was that.

I hope he is safe, he had a very customer facing job

Exactly…ambition is not something you can give to another person.

Some people want wealth and status, while others are content to work minimally and live life on their own terms.

My guess is that Candiass thought since she-and her mother are providing the lion share of the money, that Chris would be more than happy to be her husband/manager.

He’s just not built like that. He will do his online cooking class and spend the rest of the day playing golf. He even told her that he would expect an allowance if he became her manager full time.

The HW series are based on beautiful women marrying well off high achieving men. Sometimes the women are accomplished in their own right.

In her marriage she is the come up, not her husband. That is perfectly okay as long as she doesn’t pretend that this guy is a mogul in the making.

[RealReality]

44 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Exactly…ambition is not something you can give to another person.

Some people want wealth and status, while others are content to work minimally and live life on their own terms.

My guess is that Candiass thought since she-and her mother are providing the lion share of the money, that Chris would be more than happy to be her husband/manager.

He’s just not built like that. He will do his online cooking class and spend the rest of the day playing golf. He even told her that he would expect an allowance if he became her manager full time.

The HW series are based on beautiful women marrying well off high achieving men. Sometimes the women are accomplished in their own right.

In her marriage she is the come up, not her husband. That is perfectly okay as long as she doesn’t pretend that this guy is a mogul in the making.

I agree.  But I think the most important thing SHE has to do is accept it. 

Once she accepts it and accepts that people will think it somehow reflects poorly on her and comes to terms with that, the easier it will be for her to just shoulder shrug and move on.  

I think Chris can support her, but I wonder why they can't try an OLG thing?  Do you think he would work hard if he had his own restaurant.....or a food truck.  OMG that would be such fun and he could probably make a lot of money with little investment.  

I feel like Kenya took a while to marry anyone and it was fine.  I watched the first season or two of OC and I feel like some of those women weren't married.  But if you tell me I'm wrong I'd totally accept it because that was forever ago.  

[qtpye]

10 hours ago, RealReality said:

I agree.  But I think the most important thing SHE has to do is accept it. 

Once she accepts it and accepts that people will think it somehow reflects poorly on her and comes to terms with that, the easier it will be for her to just shoulder shrug and move on.  

I think Chris can support her, but I wonder why they can't try an OLG thing?  Do you think he would work hard if he had his own restaurant.....or a food truck.  OMG that would be such fun and he could probably make a lot of money with little investment.  

I feel like Kenya took a while to marry anyone and it was fine.  I watched the first season or two of OC and I feel like some of those women weren't married.  But if you tell me I'm wrong I'd totally accept it because that was forever ago.  

When Kenya first came on that was when the shows started to focus more on the women and less on them being Housewives or married to rich men.

I am fine with it as Kenya turned out to be a great villain for the show. I also do not think women should be defined by who they marry and enjoy snarking on the people in HW shows.

I have no problem with who Candiass married...he seems like a nice lowkey guy. Yes, he is getting a pass as a white man that a black man or man of color would not get.

However, she is the one who is making him look stupid by pretending that he is something he is not.

[eXiled]

15 hours ago, RealReality said:

This is an interesting point and I could see where it would be somewhat infuriating.  

Peter Thomas was constantly called out for being bummy, and he WAS a bummy user.  I also think he was an asshole who I expected to go full madea to get a peach.....

[JonnieUniteUs]

I have not read the thread yet but I’m watching this episode now and Gisele with her girls - she seems like almost a different person than the shady passive aggressive individual we see her with the ladies. SHe seems so good with those girls and gives them some good encouragement and advice.

I know this is probably unpopular but I think Chris is darling.  The Conversation he and Candace in the kitchen - it’s almost like the roles are reversed from when you usually see a self-absorbed dickhead husband and a wife who feels like she’s not being heard.  I’m not saying that Candace is a self-absorbed dickhead but it just seems like the roles you’re used to seeing were reversed there and Chris is funny.  Candiace is too.  I hope they can weather the storms of marriage.

Wendy’s son is such a sweet soul! ❤️

Edited September 19, 2021 by JonnieUniteUs

[Baltimore Betty]

9 minutes ago, JonnieUniteUs said:

SHe seems so good with those girls and gives them some good encouragement and advice.

She also serves as a cautionary tale too, her girls seem like nice people.

@JonnieUniteUs are you Johnny Unitas fan?  If you are he use to have court time the same time my mom played (indoor club), he was always on the next court, such a gentleman and a great football player.

[JonnieUniteUs]

5 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

She also serves as a cautionary tale too, her girls seem like nice people.

@JonnieUniteUs are you Johnny Unitas fan?  If you are he use to have court time the same time my mom played (indoor club), he was always on the next court, such a gentleman and a great football player.

I don’t really know much about him but that is very cool about your mom!

I think when I chose that nick I was upset at how divided our country has become.  Maybe I had good intentions but it didn’t stop me from ripping on a bunch of these housewives unfortunately🤔😩

[JonnieUniteUs]

These women all look so beautiful at this luncheon.  I wish those flowered headpiece things were an acceptable daily fashion all the time. 

[Yogisbooboo64]

On 9/19/2021 at 7:26 PM, JonnieUniteUs said:

I know this is probably unpopular but I think Chris is darling.  The Conversation he and Candace in the kitchen - it’s almost like the roles are reversed from when you usually see a self-absorbed dickhead husband and a wife who feels like she’s not being heard.  

I'd say the bolded text would be about Robbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb and Juan.

Anywho, finally got to see this eppy….

Karen is a bigger person than I am.  Gizzard, your previous ‘apologies’ were such bullshit it isn’t funny.  Heiffa, you give half assed apologies then you do the same…fucking…thing only in a different situation!  Grace, Angel and Adore likely didn’t give two bluedilly fucks about what was going on with their daddy….you’re just mad because you looked like Boo Boo the Fool on national tv, with Karen tag teaming Monique on your ass.  If her girls were really and truly hurt (pffft!), I could see apologizing but NO FUCKING WAY would she have gotten one.