S02.E10: Revolution, Part 1

[Cranberry]

Quote

The Camarilla brings the fight to Fort Salem. Raelle, Abigail, Tally and their allies are forced to make impossible, world-changing choices.

Original air date: August 24, 2021

 

[rwlevin]

Well someone just won the award for worst father ever.

How does Petra not realize that union of earth and sky means little Tarim/Bellweather babies?

Meanwhile, a mycelium-made Alder? Awesome!

[DanaK]

So the Vice President was part of the Camarilla after all. I think somebody called that

Pretty good finale over all. Not sure I like the group being fugitives, but we’ll see how they execute it next season

[Cranberry]

I really liked that finale! So glad we'll get more of Nicte next season; she's a compelling character. I think she's like Scylla in that she's definitely not redeemed, but she's been shaken out of her former mindset and is developing new loyalties. I'm happy to see Scylla finally officially working with the trio, too, and I'm glad Adil and Khalida went with the group. Together, these people can do tons of different magic -- Blaster/Fixer/Knower/Necro stuff, Spree stuff, Dodger creations, Tarim work, Mycelium magic. The only other person I would have wanted in my dream rebel group is Anacostia, and she's still technically part of it, although she and Petra are needed on base.

I figured that Penelope's "accidental" pinprick (from the "news crew" guy whose face was never shown) was important, but if anything I expected him to inoculate her from the witch plague, not turn her into the source of it! Silver's even colder than I thought.

It seemed like the writers were trying to shoehorn some Tally/Gregorio stuff into this episode, although that relationship has been underdeveloped. Tally's had more tension with Alder (and been flirted with more by Nicte) this season, heh. I'm not opposed to the pairing, but I'm gonna need more development (although that'll be difficult with her on the run).

Scylla finally used that mark on Raelle's hand to communicate with her! I wondered when that would come up again.

The "union of earth and sky must be prevented at all costs" thing is intriguing. Like I've been saying, I have no idea why Abigail's family has been so opposed to her and Adil, considering the crazy powerful magic he brings to the table. (The wiki states that male witches can't pass on their power genetically, but maybe that's not true with this particular pairing for some reason? In any case, he could teach their kids so much.)

Alder's death was pretty moving, mostly because of the reactions from the other characters, especially Anacostia. Looks like we haven't seen the last of her (in some form), though.

I'm definitely looking forward to that third (and final) season!

 

 

[AnimeMania]

What kind of tree do you think Alder became? Maybe a Witch Hazel😁?

I liked the season finale.

It seems weird that the Witch Plague evolved so much in a short period of time.

[ursula]

32 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

What kind of tree do you think Alder became?

Groot.

[Zonk]

10 hours ago, rwlevin said:

How does Petra not realize that union of earth and sky means little Tarim/Bellweather babies?

All these characters have plot induced brain damage from time to time.

8 hours ago, Cranberry said:

The "union of earth and sky must be prevented at all costs" thing is intriguing. Like I've been saying, I have no idea why Abigail's family has been so opposed to her and Adil, considering the crazy powerful magic he brings to the table.

Plot induced brain damage?

8 hours ago, Cranberry said:

(The wiki states that male witches can't pass on their power genetically, but maybe that's not true with this particular pairing for some reason? In any case, he could teach their kids so much.)

That ones really iffy. They keep saying that, but on the other hand, if witches reproduce with civilians enough times, their childrens talents will get weaker and weaker with each generation. That's why there is this whole breeding program, why Raelle's mother was given those crappy assignments, etc.

So the men have to bring something to the table, even if they can't make witch babies with a civilian.

8 hours ago, Cranberry said:

Alder's death was pretty moving, mostly because of the reactions from the other characters, especially Anacostia. Looks like we haven't seen the last of her (in some form), though.

Left me cold. But then, I was pretty sure that the fungus wouldn't let her die. She created it afterall.

7 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

What kind of tree do you think Alder became? Maybe a Witch Hazel😁?

I might be missing the joke here, but the fungus is reabuilding her under ground. Didn't seem very tree like.

I think before that was just supposed to be very advanced decay to the point of mummyfication. The effect wasn't very good though and did look kinda grooty.

[AnimeMania]

33 minutes ago, Zonk said:

8 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

What kind of tree do you think Alder became? Maybe a Witch Hazel😁?

I might be missing the joke here,

Yes, I was making a silly joke, that she becomes an Alder Tree.

[Zonk]

Something I forgot to mention: I know tensions are high at the moment. There is basically a mob forming. BUT that footage showed that it was clearly self defense, what our plucky heroins did. Also it was on a military base and didn't target a civilian, so no laws regarding (not) doing work were broken. I could see this being a problem legally if it had been a civilian, but with the target being a witch? No.

So all that remains is appeasing the masses.

It would make sense if the president would enact reforms, like not drafting witches who aren't full blooded, but giving them the option to join the military voluntarily. That should appease the "not our daughters" crowd and disarm the situation.

Having a mock trial for three clearly innocent young women, who are heroes to a lot of people, would probably appease some, but also rile up a lot of other factions. It's obviously the inferior option.

10 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Yes, I was making a silly joke, that she becomes an Alder Tree.

That's what I get for not being a native english speaker. 😅

Wonder if she's called Erle in the german translation... probably not.

[william0102]

You know what really sucks about Penelope's death? Her witch genes had to have come from her father (I know show says it can't happen, but there are male witches with power), because the other option is that this man, a Camarilla, married a witch, and then killed her? We haven't heard about the mom have we? Wouldn't he have been very particular about who he would marry being part of the Camarilla AND going into politics?

I don't know, feels like a beat that could have been explored between Tally and Penelope, that might have made me feel more about her death. Her death was sad, especially the part when she briefly talked to Tally. But overall, I was underwhelmed by this finale. It was good, but predictable. This show's saving grace is that it lingers on the characters and their reactions to events. I was brought out of the moment by Scylla and Aunt Figure showing up to help save the day, and it wasn't until I was writing this post that I remembered they did show Tally and Raelle going to her house, so I guess it's possible Scylla and auntie could have showed up in time- that they weren't that deep in the Cession. 

I really liked that Khalida got some screen time, sad she had to kill someone. But they have to protect themselves from the Camarilla, then they can go back into hiding. I have to say though, that any empathy or sadness I felt about Alder rapidly aging was immediately wiped out when she ended up looking like Pinnochio. I loved Anacostia's reactions, but having the squad there made it seem less important, less about Anacostia and Alder. If they needed Raelle there to make sure the mushroom wouldn't burn Alder, fine, but have them stand off to the side as Anacostia said her goodbyes and promised to continue Alder's legacy by always protecting witches.

Both couples had really good reunions/ I'm so glad you're alive scenes. Not sure how I feel about the whole Earth and Sky union, especially knowing that the 3rd season is being advertised as the final season. I would have liked to see Abigail become more of her own person while still adding to the Bellweather name in her own way, not become the future mom of the strongest witch ever. I still like this show and hope we get more lore and a nice conclusion for everyone.

[ursula]

17 minutes ago, william0102 said:

You know what really sucks about Penelope's death? Her witch genes had to have come from her father (I know show says it can't happen, but there are male witches with power), because the other option is that this man, a Camarilla, married a witch, and then killed her? We haven't heard about the mom have we? Wouldn't he have been very particular about who he would marry being part of the Camarilla AND going into politics?

The Camarilla have been tracking the bloodlines of witches far more thoroughly than the official Government/Fort Salem. They found the lost Bellweather line and many other "passing" witches. 

If he was playing the long game from the beginning, to marry a woman from a lost bloodline, have a witch daughter that is "outted" and use her as a Trojan horse to bring down the impenetrable Fort Salem, not just literally in the sense that she was Patient Zero of a biological bomb, but politically... Then yeah, it would make perfect, horrible sense.

 

[AnimeMania]

32 minutes ago, william0102 said:

I would have liked to see Abigail become more of her own person while still adding to the Bellweather name in her own way, not become the future mom of the strongest witch ever. I still like this show and hope we get more lore and a nice conclusion for everyone.

Typically with anime and lately other TV shows, the baby's powers manifest while still a fetus and convey incredible powers for the mother to use before the baby is born.

[Just Here]

14 hours ago, Zonk said:

Something I forgot to mention: I know tensions are high at the moment. There is basically a mob forming. BUT that footage showed that it was clearly self defense, what our plucky heroins did. Also it was on a military base and didn't target a civilian, so no laws regarding (not) doing work were broken. I could see this being a problem legally if it had been a civilian, but with the target being a witch? No.

The three were arrested for the alleged murder of Penelope, not for using magic.  From the Vice President's dialogue, starting at about the 23:25 mark:

Quote

This is now a criminal matter.  I have a warrant for the arrest of your daughter and her unit for murder.  They'll be arraigned in D.C.

 

The mechanics of this "show trial" prosecution are honestly quite fascinating.  In the real world, the investigation and prosecution would be handled by the specific service branch, under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.  But, here we have the Camarilla-aligned Vice President swooping in with a presumably civilian (U.S. Department of Justice) criminal indictment, which would mean a federal civilian trial, with the potential for a civilian jury, instead of a military court-martial with a jury made up of service members.  If the series wasn't going to end in ten episodes, a multi-episode arc exploiting the drama of the prosecution process could have been really interesting and a great exercise in world-building.

[DanaK]

13 hours ago, ursula said:

The Camarilla have been tracking the bloodlines of witches far more thoroughly than the official Government/Fort Salem. They found the lost Bellweather line and many other "passing" witches. 

If he was playing the long game from the beginning, to marry a woman from a lost bloodline, have a witch daughter that is "outted" and use her as a Trojan horse to bring down the impenetrable Fort Salem, not just literally in the sense that she was Patient Zero of a biological bomb, but politically... Then yeah, it would make perfect, horrible sense.

 

The Camarilla could have also recruited the Vice President at some point during his life. But knowing these guys, they could have played the long game with the Vice President

The guy who is currently the leader of the Camarilla is just so smarmy. I hate seeing his face. The actor does a really good job playing a know-it-all jerk

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by DanaK

[ursula]

5 hours ago, DanaK said:

The Camarilla could have also recruited the Vice President at some point during his life. But knowing these guys, they could have played the long game with the Vice President

I think if he's willing to sacrifice his child, this guy must be a die-hard fanatic. I'm talking he was drinking this anti-Witch Kool-Aid in his mother's milk. This kind of bone-deep devotion doesn't happen overnight, or over a decade. It takes an entire lifetime of brain-washing and indoctrination.

5 hours ago, DanaK said:

The guy who is currently the leader of the Camarilla is just so smarmy. I hate seeing his face. The actor does a really good job playing a know-it-all jerk

If there's one thing I think this show really fails at is removing the subtlety from the Camarilla. There are Token Evil and one-dimensional. The doctor is a sadist. The VP murders his own child. There's no sympathetic person in the lot of them. 

[Zonk]

On 8/26/2021 at 7:14 PM, Just Here said:

The three were arrested for the alleged murder of Penelope, not for using magic.  From the Vice President's dialogue, starting at about the 23:25 mark:

Yeah, I know. but it was clearly self defense. However, self defense could turn into murder if you do it during a criminal act or in a criminal way. Like if you shot somebody who was punching you while you commited a bank robbery. That would be murder. When the same thing would be self defense in most other situations.

That's why I went through how them using magic wouldn't be illegal here.

On 8/26/2021 at 6:19 AM, ursula said:

The Camarilla have been tracking the bloodlines of witches far more thoroughly than the official Government/Fort Salem. They found the lost Bellweather line and many other "passing" witches. 

They found the witches by using those hearing-tests in schools, not by tracking the bloodlines.

 

[ursula]

1 hour ago, Zonk said:

They found the witches by using those hearing-tests in schools, not by tracking the bloodlines.

The test identifies school-age witches, then they track their families from there. 

It isn't the only means they have to identify/track witches. Because specific information like, which lost witches are Bellweathers, won't just be got fromn the hearing test results. 

[dungeonwriter]

On 8/26/2021 at 12:19 AM, ursula said:

The Camarilla have been tracking the bloodlines of witches far more thoroughly than the official Government/Fort Salem. They found the lost Bellweather line and many other "passing" witches. 

If he was playing the long game from the beginning, to marry a woman from a lost bloodline, have a witch daughter that is "outted" and use her as a Trojan horse to bring down the impenetrable Fort Salem, not just literally in the sense that she was Patient Zero of a biological bomb, but politically... Then yeah, it would make perfect, horrible sense.

 

It's entirely possible that the late Mrs. Silver had no idea she was a witch, and hide her powers. We see there are witches who had no idea they had powers. I also wondered if Penelope was adopted or a step-child raised from a young age. But if Silver truly believed witches to be an abomination, killing his daughter makes sick and tragic sense. Better for her to die as a "suicide bomber" than to live as his great shame. 

Murder on a military base by soldiers is court martial, I believe, not a civilian trial. 

On 8/26/2021 at 6:50 PM, ursula said:

I think if he's willing to sacrifice his child, this guy must be a die-hard fanatic. I'm talking he was drinking this anti-Witch Kool-Aid in his mother's milk. This kind of bone-deep devotion doesn't happen overnight, or over a decade. It takes an entire lifetime of brain-washing and indoctrination.

If there's one thing I think this show really fails at is removing the subtlety from the Camarilla. There are Token Evil and one-dimensional. The doctor is a sadist. The VP murders his own child. There's no sympathetic person in the lot of them. 

I do find that incredibly annoying. There's so much rich material to mine here. A father who truly loves his child, and sees her powers as a cancer, and therefore wants to redeem her. 

A genuine terror of witches, especially backed up by the Spree. I mean, fellow citizens who can kill with a song, I'd be scared of them too. 

But no, they're bad because they're bad 

[Scarlett45]

On 8/25/2021 at 11:19 PM, ursula said:

The Camarilla have been tracking the bloodlines of witches far more thoroughly than the official Government/Fort Salem. They found the lost Bellweather line and many other "passing" witches. 

If he was playing the long game from the beginning, to marry a woman from a lost bloodline, have a witch daughter that is "outted" and use her as a Trojan horse to bring down the impenetrable Fort Salem, not just literally in the sense that she was Patient Zero of a biological bomb, but politically... Then yeah, it would make perfect, horrible sense.

 

I think this is what happened. Or he joined the Camarilla after his daughter was born and his wife died. It was established early in the season that Penelope’s Mom was dead. 

Most people love their biological children, but history is filled with examples of people who were willing to see their children die because said children were socially inferior- because of their race, religion, disability, skin color, sexual orientation etc. Many people have had affection for their kids but considered them subhuman .

He might have been willing to hide his daughter from persecution but once she was outed as a witch, he was willing to sacrifice her for the “greater good”, but he cried y’all so he felt bad about it! (I am being sarcastic). 

On 8/28/2021 at 10:36 PM, dungeonwriter said:

It's entirely possible that the late Mrs. Silver had no idea she was a witch, and hide her powers. We see there are witches who had no idea they had powers.

Also very possible. 

[Scarlett45]

On 8/25/2021 at 12:23 AM, Cranberry said:

The "union of earth and sky must be prevented at all costs" thing is intriguing. Like I've been saying, I have no idea why Abigail's family has been so opposed to her and Adil, considering the crazy powerful magic he brings to the table. (The wiki states that male witches can't pass on their power genetically, but maybe that's not true with this particular pairing for some reason? In any case, he could teach their kids so much.)

I think it’s established cannon that men cannot pass the genetic ability to practice witchcraft onto their children, but perhaps they can pass on specific talents if the child is able to practice witchcraft. 
 

I think the “source” magic ability is contained in mitochondrial DNA (so passed mother to child, men have mitochondrial DNA but don’t pass it onto their kids), but genes to activate certain talents can be passed by either parent. If you don’t have a magical mitochondria then it won’t help you that your Dad passed on certain magic enhancing genes to you. 

[Speakeasy]

On 8/26/2021 at 11:50 PM, ursula said:

I think if he's willing to sacrifice his child, this guy must be a die-hard fanatic. I'm talking he was drinking this anti-Witch Kool-Aid in his mother's milk. This kind of bone-deep devotion doesn't happen overnight, or over a decade. It takes an entire lifetime of brain-washing and indoctrination.

I don't know if it's an entire lifetime. I'm curious to see what happens to him next season and whether we learn more about how the Camarilla has apparently been operating secretly for 200 years with no one being any the wiser (I don't find this plausible, I think this is a new organisation taking up the old ones mantle but I don't really know.)

On 8/26/2021 at 11:50 PM, ursula said:

If there's one thing I think this show really fails at is removing the subtlety from the Camarilla. There are Token Evil and one-dimensional. The doctor is a sadist. The VP murders his own child. There's no sympathetic person in the lot of them. 

The VP I think is kind of sympathetic but that's very subjective, I tend to have more sympathy for evil people who are sad and regretful than many on this site though. To my mind he's sympathetic because it was his weakness rather than his evil that led him to this point-if he'd been strong enough to defy his bosses and risk exposure for himself and his organisation he could have saved her. But he wasn't and he didn't and it is all downhill all the way to Hell from here.

My interpretation anyway. 

I do think that there's kind of an issue where there isn't really much sympathy for the muggles in this universe. Any of them who are resentful over all the people the Spree have murdered or have an issue with the Witchitary Industrial Complex are regarded, by the writers, not just by other characters, as at least suspicious and probably violent racists. Those are the moderate muggles who dare to have any opinions, not the actual terrorists.

The Camarilla's goals and ideology are treated as being utterly worthless and based purely on race hatred and fanaticism while the Spree are treated as having questionable methods but ultimately understandable goals. 

[Jack Shaftoe]

Gotta love how the show finally acknowledged that the Spree was the reason the Camarilla rose from the ashes only to once again basically beat us over the head with idea that we should be rooting for mass murdering terrorists like Nicte and Scylla to remain unpunished. Even if you forget the civilian victims (the show writers certainly do), Nicte killed the entire commando squad that came to capture her except for the plot armor carrying main protagonists, then killed some woman trying to interrogate her and yet it's cool to release her because witches shouldn't kill witches? Talk about protagonist centered morality.

And the President lets the "puppeting" go, only to demand a trial for a nothingburger. Sure, show, sure. The people who hate witches should be happy to see one witch killing another. Everyone else has zero reason to give a fuck.

The show tries to show some moral ambiguity and "both sides are bad" but tries is the operative word. Scylla making randos dance in the street to show off her cool skills is all fine and dandy because... I don't know, she has a pretty smile or something. In season 1 the Spree was totally evil without any depth whatsoever and there were heavy implications that Scylla was going to abandon them and see the errors of her ways. Season 2 comes along and suddenly it's all about the new big bad and anvils are falling about how it's somehow far more evil despite not killing not nearly as indiscriminately as the Spree and the Spree being as evil as you can get anyway. Every Spree member we see in season 2 is portrayed sympathetically, every Camarilla member is like taken from a propaganda cartoon. Oh, and to make it even more manipulative, the Camarilla seems to consist of almost entirely of men and the male witches hardly ever get targeted on screeen. So viewers, please root for the brave women of the army and the Spree opposing the evil patriarchy! Forget that the whole mess was created by Alder and Nicte and the President hasn't really done much to show she is much good at her job.

The Vice President storyline could have been interesting if it weren't yet another shocking (but not really) twist. The show badly needs to show the civilians' perspective. All we have is Raelle's dad who seems like a great guy but not exactly in a position to give unbiased opinions about witches. Plus, no one has bothered telling him that Willa and Scylla were terrorists. Though, the way things are going he would probably be okay with it.