The Real-Life Case

[Meredith Quill]

Discuss Here!

[poeticlicensed]

I really really want some resolution to this case. Over the years I have gone back and forth as to his guilt. I watched the documentary a few years ago and that left me with huge questions. Prior to that I had always thought he was guilty. 

[AZChristian]

1 minute ago, poeticlicensed said:

I really really want some resolution to this case. Over the years I have gone back and forth as to his guilt. I watched the documentary a few years ago and that left me with huge questions. Prior to that I had always thought he was guilty. 

I have followed the case for many years.  Even after watching the documentary, I am firmly in the "he did it" corner.  IMO, he took that Alford plea because he knew there was evidence to convict him, but he didn't want to go back to prison.  

[IntrovertRed]

Wasn’t sure where to post, but Todd has a weird, rambling video talking about his dad.  

[MagicEyes]

12 hours ago, KLJ said:

Wasn’t sure where to post, but Todd has a weird, rambling video talking about his dad.  

There is something very wrong with everyone in this family. 

[Demian]

On 5/27/2022 at 11:24 AM, MagicEyes said:

There is something very wrong with everyone in this family. 

I thought the first episode captured that nicely with that creepy-ass family dinner, with all of the Loving Cup bullshit.  Just...gross.

[circumvent]

I tried to watch the documentary but it is so annoying I had to give up. I don't have an opinion on Michael bing guilty or innocent but the police actions are very telling. I do think he is right when he says they are after him because he had been a strong and relentless critic of the corruption in the force. Police in this country solves a tiny fraction of crimes, abuse power, plant evidence and send people to prison because they fabricate stories and lie to suspects. If the suspects are poor, or not white, then the malpractice is through the roof. Just based on that, I see myself wanting the police to get screwed, even if I find Michael to be very unpleasant, and knowing the outcome of the case

[Snazzy Daisy]

Michael Peterson has a type‼️

[AZChristian]

1 hour ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Michael Peterson has a type‼️

I would advise any woman who becomes involved with him NOT to live in a house with a staircase.

[WendyCR72]

4 hours ago, AZChristian said:

I would advise any woman who becomes involved with him NOT to live in a house with a staircase.

Hell, if a man told me his last name was Peterson, I'd run, at this point. (Scott, Drew, Michael; the only good guy with the surname Peterson seems to be Norm on Cheers! Okay, I kid. Maybe.)

[AZChristian]

6 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Hell, if a man told me his last name was Peterson, I'd run, at this point. (Scott, Drew, Michael; the only good guy with the surname Peterson seems to be Norm on Cheers! Okay, I kid. Maybe.)

I actually know a very nice man in Florida named Michael Peterson.  He is a former co-worker of my husband with whom we have stayed in touch.  And yet, every time I see that we have an e-mail from "Michael Peterson," I do a double-take.

[SunnyBeBe]

I was close by for this case, as I posted on an episode thread, I practice law in Raleigh, which is next door to Durham.  I’ve met a couple of the actual attorneys involved, but don’t know them well.  
 WARNING SPOILERS to follow!

o

Here’s a clip of Jim Hardin, the lead prosecutor, in the case.  He later became a Superior Court Judge, but has retired.  He was asked about the Peterson case and tv shows about the case. He responds.  There is also some footage from the actual trial.  The actors are very close to the real team, imo.  It’s unreal. 
 

Also, Mike Nifong, worked under Hardin prosecuting the Peterson case.  I need to go back and see where he’s shown in this series.  A few years later, Nifong would spearhead the prosecution of the Duke LaCrosse players, which led to his disbarment and criminal contempt for prosecutorial misconduct!  His behavior in that case and others was reprehensible.  The Duke players would later sue him.  
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Nifong

And, I’m not sure if anyone has looked into Prosecutor Freda Black’s status, but she died in her home alone in 2018 from alcohol related liver disease:(  She was only 57 years old.    There are a lot of sad stories that came out of that case.  Including the NC SBI blood splatter analyst, Duane Deaver, who was WAY out of control, had falsified over 30 reports over the years, according to an investigation. He was fired from the SBI in 2013 and has moved to TX, from I read.  
 

https://www.richandthompson.com/tributes/Freda-Black

[SunnyBeBe]

Mike Peterson’s ex-wife passed away last year.  I don’t think a staircase was involved. 
I’ll show myself out now.  
 

https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/heraldsun/name/patricia-peterson-obituary?id=13049668

[AZChristian]

10 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Mike Peterson’s ex-wife passed away last year.  I don’t think a staircase was involved. 
I’ll show myself out now.  
 

https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/heraldsun/name/patricia-peterson-obituary?id=13049668

Yeah, but . . . Michael and Patty were living together (as companions) until 2021, which is when she died of a "heart attack."

Sure.  And Elizabeth Ratliff died of a brain aneurysm, and Kathleen Peterson either fell down the stairs or was attacked by an owl.

[MollyB]

1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

Yeah, but . . . Michael and Patty were living together (as companions) until 2021,

How did Sophie fit into this arrangement?  I thought she and he were living together after the Alford plea.  Or did she come to her senses and go back to Paris? Patty comes across a little discombobulated in both the documentary and the mockumentary.  She has a reason excuse for everything he does so maybe she didn't notice Sophie or had a good explanation for her presence.

[AZChristian]

10 minutes ago, MollyB said:

How did Sophie fit into this arrangement?  I thought she and he were living together after the Alford plea.  Or did she come to her senses and go back to Paris? Patty comes across a little discombobulated in both the documentary and the mockumentary.  She has a reason excuse for everything he does so maybe she didn't notice Sophie or had a good explanation for her presence.

By the time he moved in with Patty, he and Sophie had broken up.

Seeing scumbags like Michael Peterson and Dirty John having such success with conning well-to-do women into relationships makes me shake my head.  None of us on here have had one kind word to say about Michael and how arrogant and slimy he seems to be.  Maybe he comes across differently in person????

[SunnyBeBe]

Michael is not one of the players that I met, so I can’t speak as to his charm or lack thereof.  Lol He sure seemed supportive of his wife.  Narcissists, if he is one, often have their public persona down pretty well.  Behind closed doors is when the truth comes out. 

[Clawdette]

My niece is an ADA in a county that borders Durham County and she is a friend of David Rudolf, Peterson's attorney.  He has been posting his thoughts on Facebook after each episode's airing.  His username is David S. Rudolf if you want to take a look.

Additionally, the Raleigh News & Observer interviews Jim Hardin each week.  He was the lead prosecutor.  We North Carolinians in the central part of the state have been immersed in this case for more than 20 years.  I can't look away. 

Regarding HBO's telling of the accident/crime, I have to say that Parker Posey is in her element as Freda Black.  She is Freda made-over.

[AZChristian]

11 hours ago, Clawdette said:

Regarding HBO's telling of the accident/crime, I have to say that Parker Posey is in her element as Freda Black.  She is Freda made-over.

She nailed it . . . especially when as a "proper Southern lady" she was asking "Brad" questions about "Just what does a male escort DO?"  Having Freda handle that witness was a stroke of genius for the prosecution, IMO.

[poeticlicensed]

I'm listening to a BBC podcast   about the case and they were talking about the physical evidence. They said that Kathleen was not drunk but Michael put out an empty wine bottle and glasses to make it look like she had been drinking. I dont remember that from the case. 

[AZChristian]

1 hour ago, poeticlicensed said:

I'm listening to a BBC podcast   about the case and they were talking about the physical evidence. They said that Kathleen was not drunk but Michael put out an empty wine bottle and glasses to make it look like she had been drinking. I dont remember that from the case. 

Her blood alcohol level was .07, so she wasn't considered drunk. IF she had taken valium, it might have affected her as well. But if Michael Peterson had stayed out in the yard,  Kathleen would still be alive. 

[MollyB]

18 hours ago, AZChristian said:

But if Michael Peterson had stayed out in the yard,  Kathleen would still be alive. 

I was always curious how they were out looking at the stars in mid-December.  Wouldn't it have been really cold?  I'd get it if they were in the hot tub, but both movies indicate they were lounging next to the pool.  I firmly believe that they were never at the pool and he made that up to cover up why he didn't hear her screams for help.  It also explains why the blood dried, because she lay there a long time before he found her.

I'm also amazed at the amount of wine/liquor that he says they consumed.  If they had wine with dinner and/or the movie and then celebrated with champagne, her blood alcohol would have been a lot higher.  I think the wine and valium she had was when they were having a discussion/argument when she confronted him about the emails and money problems.

[circumvent]

I am slowly goin through the documentary and I am inclined to believe Michael did kill Kathleen, but I am not sure about the woman in Germany. I trust the German system more than I trust the people dealing with the case in North Carolina and they ruled it an accident in Germany.

But what impresses me the most is how weird the whole family, and pretty much everyone involved is strange. The whole family has a weird vibe, maybe because they are being filmed, but it is still strange. Kathleen's sisters are odd. Homophobia spilling over and the comments they make are so ignorant, as if they practiced before, trying to make the whole thing "clear" to the audience that Michael did it.  The daughters are also playing for the camera. There isn't even a moment, as far as I have seen, that they grieve the absence of their mother. The attorneys are acting. The prosecutors seem corrupt and incompetent. I am 100% sure that there was misconduct and I am 100% sure that the judge was hostile to the defense. That's typical American "justice" system.

This is the weirdest group of people in a documentary. They are all so unlikable, I don't even feel sorry for anyone's loss. 

[BC4ME]

I'm from NC, close to Durham and was near there at the time this happened but I only had a mild passing interest in the case over the years. I was aware of it, I just wasn't invested. This recent HBO series has made me go back and watch the documentary because I'm now curious. At the time I first heard the "owl defense" I laughed at the ridiculousness of it probably like most people. Now, however, I actually think it may be what happened. Finding feather fragments and pine needles in the hair she pulled out of her own head along with the wounds that would closely fit an owl attack are hard to ignore. Sometimes, unlikely things just happen.

I agree he's a horrible person but that doesn't make him guilty. He's just a dick like so many other dicks. 

Edited June 4, 2022 by BC4ME

[circumvent]

One more thing I want to say, it can be consider a PSA.

If we ignore for a moment the characters (the real people) and the specifics of the events, you can have a very good idea of how our "justice" system (does not) work. 

Michael was an upper (?) middle class white man who was convicted and then released because of proven corruption form the part of the state. But here is the thing: if this was a poor black family in a similar situation, the story would be much different.

The prosecutor would probably offer a plea deal - like more than 80% of the cases in this country - and two things could happen:

The hypothetical accused black man would accept and go to prison for life with a possibility of parole (or whatever mandatory sentencing guidelines in NC, but with some perceived perks or reduced punishment)

The hypothetical accused black man would reject the deal, standing by his innocence, at which point the prosecutor would throw in a bunch of new charges that are completely bogus, lie about it and go to trial with all the corruption involved in that department.

Then we have the "what would happen to the hypothetical accused black man" scenario when the lies come out. Nothing. He would not be released with an ankle bracelet, let alone be free of the bracelet because it had been "too long". the hypothetical accused black man would still be in prison, likely without representation, and forgotten. There would not be any documentary, or movie, or series, or anything to let him "tell his own story"

If by any twist of fate he was to be released, he would likely be back for any minor violation since it is near impossible for an ex-con to find their footing. He would have the whole angry mob that is the police behind him, watching his every move. The police would break him.

This is the reality of this country. There is no justice, I laugh when I see "correctional" in the prisons official names. It is all punishment, but only for some (the majority). White collar criminals get "compassionate releases") 

If  Michael is really guilty, he got it easy, not only because his life sentence without parole was reduced to 8 years inside and some minor (as far as we know at least) inconveniences for another few years outside, but because he had some privilege when his case became a documentary. It somehow protected him from the police mob.

If he is innocent, the injustice was great but by no means as bad as the other many percent of people who don't have the name, the resources, the support, the luck, or the right skin color.

American police are in large part incompetent and corrupt. I dare to say that over 95% of the police force fit this category. Prosecutors only go after some people, innocent or petty criminals, to ramp up their credentials and say they convicted "all the criminals". Then they get a case like this that is a chance to put up a show trial, but they know exactly how the police and investigators operate. They don't care. All that matters is a conviction, by all means necessary. Some of them go on to become judges.

Real life in the US of A.

[MagicEyes]

I live near Durham and I heard a lot about this case when it happened. I don’t remember anyone ever suggesting that Michael might have hired someone to kill Kathleen. Her murder was so similar to Dennis Rowe’s murder, so possibly the same people were responsible. 

Even if Michael didn’t murder her, at the very least he let her bleed out before he called 911. There was a lot of weird evidence that didn’t seem to matter much in the trial (like the possibility that MP tried to make it look like Kathleen had been drinking a lot more than she really did, the crime scene cleanup, and bloody footprints in other parts of the house).  

[SunnyBeBe]

It was my understanding that Michael didn’t work due to a disability he sustained while in the military.  I’m not sure if it’s extent. From what I read, he received Ann honorable discharge from the military due to injuries he sustained in a car accident.  of course, many things about him are pretty suspect.  

Edited June 6, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[AZChristian]

27 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

It was my understanding that Michael didn’t work due to a disability he sustained while in the military.  I’m not sure if it’s extent. From what I read, he received Ann honorable discharge from the military due to injuries he sustained in a car accident.  of course, many things about him are pretty suspect.  

From what I've read, he was injured in a car accident in Japan, and was discharged with a "permanent disability."  Because he had been an MP, it may be that he was found no longer able to perform those specific duties.

He was able to write books, run for mayor, and write innumerable "op-ed" pieces for the local newspaper.  IMO, he wasn't unable to work.  He chose to live off the largess of women who thought he was worth it.  Patty (his first wife) apparently never stopped caring for him and providing financial support when he needed it - even after he killed Kathleen and was suspected of killing Elizabeth Ratliff.  

[Snazzy Daisy]

How Accurate Is 'The Staircase' on HBO Max? 'Misleading' Says Michael Peterson's Lawyer

For Michael Peterson's lawyer, David Rudolf, HBO Max's The Staircase fell short at moments surrounding its accuracy, describing moments as "inaccurate," "misleading" and "outright false".

[IntrovertRed]

David Rudolf must really believe in his innocence, because otherwise why continue to so publicly defend him still.  I finished watched the final episodes of the documentary, and Michael was a dick to Rudolf when Rudolf had to bow out for the retrial.  

Was there blood outside or by the front door?  If an owl did attack her, wouldn't the blood be not so concentrated in the staircase?

[SunnyBeBe]

On 6/3/2022 at 4:33 PM, poeticlicensed said:

I'm listening to a BBC podcast   about the case and they were talking about the physical evidence. They said that Kathleen was not drunk but Michael put out an empty wine bottle and glasses to make it look like she had been drinking. I dont remember that from the case. 

The legal limit for Driving while impaired in NC is .08.  So, if she was .07, she was close.  Add some Valium…..however, that is still not extremely intoxicated.  Would that have rendered her incapable of getting up after falling……hmmmm….not likely.  I’ve always thought Peterson was responsible, but I try to keep an open mind.  I’d like more information on the wounds.  It’s unfortunate that the SBI blood expert was discredited.  I wonder if they could have won a reTrial without that.  
 

Ref. the couple sitting out by the pool in winter time…..(I’m from Raleigh, which is next door to Durham).  We can have very mild weather in the winter time.  I’ve worn shorts and short sleeves picking out my Christmas tree! Lol. Seventy degree weather is not uncommon in December.  I’m checking to see the temp for that day……..so, it appears it was in the 50’s.  So, chilly, but with a coat and blanket, not totally implausible that one would sit outside.  

Edited June 22, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[hoodooznoodooz]

On 6/4/2022 at 1:34 PM, circumvent said:

But what impresses me the most is how weird the whole family, and pretty much everyone involved is strange. The whole family has a weird vibe, maybe because they are being filmed, but it is still strange.

I can’t believe they are joking about Mike Peterson Halloween masks, and “Give me your candy, or I’ll shove you down the stairs.”