tearknee Friday at 02:37 PM Share Friday at 02:37 PM 12 hours ago, Ashlee said: Yes, it’s a generalisation. And she said “most”. In all sincerity, do you really believe that Frye was claiming that every woman who has ever existed has had the exact same experience with men, or that every man who has ever existed, has treated women exactly the same as the next man? She didn’t claim that. Although I do find it funny that Indira is the only PM that India has ever had, Elizabeth was born into her position and Golda was Israel’s first and only female head of government. I don’t see how they disprove the general theory that Frye was presenting. Again, as i told the other poster elsewhere here -- look up IG and "the Emergency" before anyone belts out that Reddy song. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8551069
fastiller Friday at 02:57 PM Share Friday at 02:57 PM 13 hours ago, isalicat said: Elizabeth I? Golda Meir? Indira Gandhi? the list goes on of women that were never "extensions of men"...and I'm on that list, though certainly without the fame or public accomplishments. History is always viewed through the filter of expectation so you take from it what you already think in advance, just like politics and religion, for the most part. Elizabeth was very much an extension of her father. Also, amongst the very highest of concerns throughout her reign was the fact that she hadn't produced a male heir. So, she was also an extension of a never-born son. Gandhi was also a 'nepo-pol' & much of her power derived from her father. 1 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8551083
Dimity Friday at 03:13 PM Share Friday at 03:13 PM Citing exceptions only really serves to prove the point. Have privileged women always existed? Of course. That does not change the reality that throughout history, in almost every society, women were not just second class citizens they weren't even considered citizens. And in the US if Trump and Project 2025 succeeds generations of progress will be swept aside and all the "well just stand up for yourself and ask" in the world won't make a single bit of difference. 9 1 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8551094
tearknee Friday at 03:16 PM Share Friday at 03:16 PM 1 minute ago, Dimity said: Citing exceptions only really serves to prove the point. That goes for progressives as well as reactionaries. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8551097
Anela Friday at 04:38 PM Share Friday at 04:38 PM 15 hours ago, isalicat said: This is an incredible generalization and certainly doesn't reflect my experience as a woman. Just sayin' It's been my experience with a lot of men, and I've also had experience with women who feel the need to defend men, instead of other women. Even when they know that man is in the wrong. 1 hour ago, tearknee said: That goes for progressives as well as reactionaries. People who insist on insulting feminism, tend to be reactionaries. 11 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8551156
tearknee Friday at 05:32 PM Share Friday at 05:32 PM 48 minutes ago, Anela said: It's been my experience with a lot of men, and I've also had experience with women who feel the need to defend men, instead of other women. Even when they know that man is in the wrong. People who insist on insulting feminism, tend to be reactionaries. I'm not. I simply have a deep dislike of "intersectionalists" who have attempted to hi-jack feminist advocacy groups and the broader feminist movement and have tried to turn it into an all-purpose far-left protest group. That's what happened to the AIDS group ACT-UP 33 years ago [and caused a fatal split and its downfall]. 2 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8551189
isalicat Friday at 08:26 PM Share Friday at 08:26 PM 3 hours ago, Anela said: People who insist on insulting feminism, tend to be reactionaries. You can question feminist theory without being either "insulting" or a "reactionary". Its not an either/or world out there in my actual experience. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8551311
Ashlee Friday at 08:45 PM Share Friday at 08:45 PM (edited) 6 hours ago, tearknee said: Again, as i told the other poster elsewhere here -- look up IG and "the Emergency" before anyone belts out that Reddy song. No idea who Reddy is, but I’m perfectly fine responding how I wish, thank you. 4 hours ago, Anela said: It's been my experience with a lot of men, and I've also had experience with women who feel the need to defend men, instead of other women. Even when they know that man is in the wrong. People who insist on insulting feminism, tend to be reactionaries. 100%. Happens all the time, unfortunately. I was one of those women at one point. Edited Friday at 08:54 PM by Ashlee 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8551321
tearknee Friday at 08:54 PM Share Friday at 08:54 PM 25 minutes ago, isalicat said: You can question feminist theory without being either "insulting" or a "reactionary". Its not an either/or world out there in my actual experience. Exactly. As Obi Wan says to Anakin in ROTS about 'absolutes'. I never do *that* but i find hypocrisy and duplicitousness irritating. Especially given what i have said about my dislike for "intersectionalists" and what they do (e.g. what happened to ACT-UP). 9 minutes ago, Ashlee said: No idea who Reddy is, but I’m perfectly fine responding how I wish, thank you. Helen Reddy. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8551330
Ashlee Friday at 08:59 PM Share Friday at 08:59 PM 3 minutes ago, tearknee said: Exactly. As Obi Wan says to Anakin in ROTS about 'absolutes'. I never do *that* but i find hypocrisy and duplicitousness irritating. Especially given what i have said about my dislike for "intersectionalists" and what they do (e.g. what happened to ACT-UP). Helen Reddy. Right. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8551332
tearknee Friday at 09:02 PM Share Friday at 09:02 PM i.e. simply because a woman is in power (especially in a non-white context) does NOT mean one should start singing "I Am Woman". Indira G. and the Emergency = horrible time. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8551334
Ashlee Friday at 09:15 PM Share Friday at 09:15 PM 12 minutes ago, tearknee said: i.e. simply because a woman is in power (especially in a non-white context) does NOT mean one should start singing "I Am Woman". Indira G. and the Emergency = horrible time. It’s not a song I listen to, but I remember it now. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8551341
peacheslatour Friday at 10:33 PM Share Friday at 10:33 PM 1 hour ago, Ashlee said: It’s not a song I listen to, but I remember it now. I prefer You Don't Own Me by Leslie Gore. 8 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8551387
Dimity Friday at 10:56 PM Share Friday at 10:56 PM 8 hours ago, tearknee said: Again, as i told the other poster elsewhere here -- look up IG and "the Emergency" before anyone belts out that Reddy song. I am very comfortable belting out that song, thank you. As a matter of fact I am doing so right now so I guess I now need to thank you for the earworm. 4 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8551405
supposebly Friday at 11:11 PM Share Friday at 11:11 PM It sounds extreme, of course, but I do think there is a kernel of truth. I wonder if you asked any man what their role models are and see if there are any women in there. 8 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8551425
Anela Friday at 11:24 PM Share Friday at 11:24 PM 51 minutes ago, peacheslatour said: I prefer You Don't Own Me by Leslie Gore. My mum used to say that Different Drum, reminded her of me. Quote Yes, and I ain't sayin' you ain't pretty All I'm saying's I'm not ready for any person Place or thing to try and pull the reins in on me, so 1 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8551435
Annber03 Friday at 11:42 PM Share Friday at 11:42 PM 1 hour ago, peacheslatour said: I prefer You Don't Own Me by Leslie Gore. I like that song, too :). 2 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8551450
Dimity Friday at 11:51 PM Share Friday at 11:51 PM 25 minutes ago, Anela said: My mum used to say that Different Drum, reminded her of me. I love that song!!!! 5 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8551455
Annber03 Friday at 11:58 PM Share Friday at 11:58 PM 5 minutes ago, Dimity said: I love that song!!!! It's a great song. Written by Mke Nesmith of the Monkees :D. He was very complimentary of Linda Ronstadt's take on the song. 3 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8551461
Dimity Yest. at 12:01 AM Share Yest. at 12:01 AM 2 minutes ago, Annber03 said: It's a great song. Written by Mke Nesmith of the Monkees :D. He was very complimentary of Linda Ronstadt's take on the song. As he should have been! She did him proud. That song is on my playlist and has been for years along with several other songs by Linda Ronstadt (and The Monkees too for that matter!). 4 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8551465
tearknee Yest. at 12:33 AM Share Yest. at 12:33 AM If people feel they need to base their philosophy on a five-decade old song, the lyrics of which rely on a dated notion of collectivism and class that has long since been disproved by both nationalism and individualism? "I hope i don't grow up. Doesn't look much fun" -- Poltergeist II 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8551497
Ashlee Yest. at 02:10 AM Share Yest. at 02:10 AM 1 hour ago, tearknee said: If people feel they need to base their philosophy on a five-decade old song, the lyrics of which rely on a dated notion of collectivism and class that has long since been disproved by both nationalism and individualism? "I hope i don't grow up. Doesn't look much fun" -- Poltergeist II … Enjoying a song =/= basing your philosophy on it. 8 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8551791
tearknee Yest. at 02:16 AM Share Yest. at 02:16 AM The whole song is based on a notion of women as a collective, the now discredited notion of class. You only have to look at 2016 and a few months ago to realize how collectivism is horse poo. If the same percent -- but overall, of the eligible women who cast ballots in 2016 -- had voted for HRC -- more than women who were already her base -- she would have won. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8551798
Dimity Yest. at 02:18 AM Share Yest. at 02:18 AM 1 hour ago, tearknee said: If people feel they need to base their philosophy on a five-decade old song, the lyrics of which rely on a dated notion of collectivism and class that has long since been disproved by both nationalism and individualism? "I hope i don't grow up. Doesn't look much fun" -- Poltergeist II I cannot tell if you are being serious or not. I trust not. 2 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8551800
tearknee Yest. at 02:20 AM Share Yest. at 02:20 AM Given what i have been through, I am a hard-boiled pragmatist. Yes, i do know what i am writing about. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8551801
Ashlee Yest. at 08:13 AM Share Yest. at 08:13 AM 5 hours ago, tearknee said: The whole song is based on a notion of women as a collective, the now discredited notion of class. You only have to look at 2016 and a few months ago to realize how collectivism is horse poo. If the same percent -- but overall, of the eligible women who cast ballots in 2016 -- had voted for HRC -- more than women who were already her base -- she would have won. It’s a song. You can enjoy the message and you can enjoy how it sounds. You don’t have to base your philosophy on it. 5 hours ago, Dimity said: I cannot tell if you are being serious or not. I trust not. Same. 6 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8551928
tearknee Yest. at 05:18 PM Share Yest. at 05:18 PM Sorry, I must have been drinking something 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8552103
Dimity Yest. at 05:22 PM Share Yest. at 05:22 PM 9 hours ago, Ashlee said: You can enjoy the message and you can enjoy how it sounds. You don’t have to base your philosophy on it. It's more likely for most people that a song resonates with them because it is based on the philosophy of life that you already have. It's also the reason so many songs end up, at least for me, on my "nope, not giving that one any airtime" - because it reflects a philosophy that is diametrically opposite everything I believe in. Or, in other words, the song is a misogynist piece of garbage. 5 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8552107
peacheslatour Yest. at 05:54 PM Share Yest. at 05:54 PM 30 minutes ago, Dimity said: It's more likely for most people that a song resonates with them because it is based on the philosophy of life that you already have. It's also the reason so many songs end up, at least for me, on my "nope, not giving that one any airtime" - because it reflects a philosophy that is diametrically opposite everything I believe in. Or, in other words, the song is a misogynist piece of garbage. What? You didn't just lurve She's Havin' My Baby? 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8552131
Dimity Yest. at 05:57 PM Share Yest. at 05:57 PM 2 minutes ago, peacheslatour said: What? You didn't just lurve She's Havin' My Baby? Oh dear god. Now the nightmares will start again. 5 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8552135
tearknee 22 hours ago Share 22 hours ago (edited) (The following is Swiftian/Poe's Law) Uncle Jesse sung that horrible song on FH - Becky should have gone all Larissa Schuster on his butt (Mee Chelle and Joey have at least one thing to like about them. Jesse deserved to be the victim in Fargo). Edited 22 hours ago by tearknee 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8552219
tearknee 18 hours ago Share 18 hours ago (edited) Jesse: "I miss my sister Pam" The girls and women who watch Full House: Edited 18 hours ago by tearknee Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/120511-do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist-why-or-why-not/page/12/#findComment-8552354
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