S07.E12: Older

[dmc]

On 6/10/2021 at 10:48 PM, LuvMyShows said:

Maybe I'm too much of a pragmatist, but I didn't see why Kelsey got so freaking upset at what's-his-name when he showed her that he had gotten an Inkubator offer 3x more than Charles' offer, and then she saw a 20% cut for him.  Yes, all he did was send emails...but to people he had been cultivating for years, and she still would have reaped major benefits from the deal.  Why isn't it win-win for both of them and they go celebrate?  

Because he isn't technically representing her and because he never asked for a cut up front.

This would be like you saying you want to sell your old car, your friend offers to find you a buyer that ends up paying 3 times more than you thought you would get and then the next day you receive a bill in the mail to give your friend 20% for setting up the deal.  You friend never presented this as them setting up a deal for a cut.  

Its not the amount, its the fact that there was no agreement and that you were under the assumption they were just doing you a favor.  

He could have easily said to her, let me try to get you an investor for a 20 percent cut and she probably would have said okay.  

The presumption and the entitlement make it a jerk move.  But to your point, I would have just said all that...no need to end anything.  

Edited June 12, 2021 by dmc

[MissLucas]

Yeah, it was a jerk move. But I don't get why she wasn't simply laughing in his face telling him to f*** off or to keep it more polite 'Nice try - now she me the written agreement.' 🤷‍♂️ Seriously, if you feel like you have to drag business matters into a budding relationship than keep it strictly business.

[Toonces464]

I'm glad it's over. I enjoyed it for the first few seasons but this last season became a chore to watch. By the last episode, I pretty much hated everyone and hated even more the fact that there was no Diana.

The most ridiculous part of the season was sticking Lauren into Diana's seat. I realize they were trying to bring her more into the main storyline but there was no actual employee who could fill in while Diana was gone? Like her own assistant? No company is going to bring some goofy, crazy lady with no filter and no sense of the publishing world into such a high level position, even temporarily. It was so unbelievable that it made the whole last season pretty much a joke since so much of it was centered around the company.

I'm glad I started watching when it first came on because it really was a fun show. But it definitely went on too long, and the extra year break before the last season due to COVID didn't help. Right now I feel like I just finished an obligation and am glad it's finally out of the way.

 

[slowpoked]

6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Honestly the most unbelievable part of the finale for me was that anyone cared enough about a publishing employee who fudged her age to put her in their goofy fraud play alongside the likes of Billy McFarland. Who could possibly care that much outside the industry? The industry didn’t even ending up caring that much. Is Liza so infamous to be “worse” then any of those people? 

This! I really don’t get the point of the musical either. Liza’s scam was an NYC publishing industry news, not national news like Madoff, Holmes and Mcfarland. What a waste of precious time in a series finale. 
 

Even if that musical went live and Liza’s part was not cut, I would think majority of the audience, even the NYCers, would be confused as to Liza’s part in the play. 

[slowpoked]

I think in hindsight, the better storyline of this final season would have been Charles and Liza going through their engagement, then realizing along the way they have deep-seated issues they wouldn’t be able to resolve, and thus end up not together. Instead of messing their relationship using Quinn. I like Laura, but I won’t stop bitching about this, that Diana should have taken her screentime instead. Quinn is the type of character not needed in the last season of a series that needed to resolve some important issues.

While planning their wedding, Charles eventually realizes that he has trust issues with Liza that he never really thought about before, brought upon by the fact that Josh continues to be a presence in Liza’s life, and Liza’s ambivalence to fully let go of Josh.

On the other hand, while planning their life together after the wedding, Liza realizes that not only she doesn’t want kids anymore (the reason why she and Josh broke up before), but that she doesn’t want to be a wife anymore as well. She still wants to be in a long-term relationship, but not in the confines of a legal contract like marriage.

I think this would have done a good fanservice to Charles and Liza fans while giving them closure in the end when they eventually part ways, and not make Charles a total dickhead like they did this last season.

 

[Yeah No]

On 6/11/2021 at 8:58 PM, bluemoonstars said:

I agree that Charles was not the same character we were introduced to early on. When it comes to his mistrust I feel like it would have been more believable if Charles didn't trust her because she was clearly still attracted to Josh and lying about it in Season 6. I think if he didn't trust her because of that and the overreactions she had to basic interactions with Josh which showed she had feelings that weren't fully platonic- flying to Chicago, saying she won't be friends with him anymore (if that were her choice I'd support it , and I didn't like Josh mansplaining her feelings, that was really screwed up). If he had trust issues based on that then I would totally be behind his mistrust of her. But not trusting her because she shaved 14 years off her age because she had to in order to find a job..... yeah no 

I agree with this.  The show didn't give Charles enough of a plausible reason to have any lingering mistrust of Liza.  It didn't follow from how he felt in previous seasons and she hadn't really done anything new to justify his mistrust other than turn down his proposal.  Making it about him seeing that she still had unresolved feelings for Josh would have been much more realistic.  I don't know why the show didn't want to reopen the triangle.  Once she turned down Charles' proposal, that would have been the ideal moment for her to start realizing she had unfinished business with Josh.  Charles' seed of doubt could have been planted once Liza turned him down then intensified upon him seeing her being friendly with Josh.  He could have spent the season laboring under the impression that she was intending to get back with Josh and perhaps dated Quinn as an obvious rebound, but he would show signs of knowing he was just going through the motions with her and his true love was still Liza.

16 hours ago, violet and green said:

I finally came round to Charles for Liza this season, midway through, and now it's all off?!! Hasn't anyone heard of talking things through? And Josh, wearing a schlumpy beanie all season, gets the last semi-romantic scene for thirty seconds at the end? It was like the writers' room took bad acid and some cough medicine and threw 1001 ideas - most involving unnecessary sex acts, or tmi commentary on, like they'd swallowed the entire Sex and the City back catalogue and vomited it into a wind machine and stitched those moments loosely into the "plot" - at a story board and said, Yeah, that works. Plus no return of Diana, sob. She was impeccable in her zoom call though.

This show flip flopped around so much it was hard for me to believe that it would end in any particular way even if it looked like it was going there.  I learned to not to trust anything it put forth and knew they would probably change it all around by the final episode.  Bad acid/cough medicine, LOL.  Either that or they forgot to take their Ritalin.  

[Yeah No]

10 hours ago, dmc said:

Because he isn't technically representing her and because he never asked for a cut up front.

This would be like you saying you want to sell your old car, your friend offers to find you a buyer that ends up paying 3 times more than you thought you would get and then the next day you receive a bill in the mail to give your friend 20% for setting up the deal.  You friend never presented this as them setting up a deal for a cut.  

Its not the amount, its the fact that there was no agreement and that you were under the assumption they were just doing you a favor.  

He could have easily said to her, let me try to get you an investor for a 20 percent cut and she probably would have said okay.  

The presumption and the entitlement make it a jerk move.

Yup, that's pretty much what I said one page back.

[dmc]

6 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Yup, that's pretty much what I said one page back.

I am shocked at how many people would be willing to pay a fee on something they never set up.  This is a NOPE.

 

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, dmc said:

I am shocked at how many people would be willing to pay a fee on something they never set up.  This is a NOPE.

 

I know.  How stupid could the guy be, too?  He should know she's under no obligation to pay him anything without a formal agreement.  Why would anyone do that?  I think the entire thing was stupid and unrealistic.  It was just another way for the show to screw Kelsey one last time on the way out the door, and not a very well thought out one either.  And I don't think she deserved it just because she didn't tell his old girlfriend that she was dating him either.

[Yeah No]

The more I think about it the more I think the show screwed the audience and the entire cast on the way out too.  If they were going for some kind of realistic "real world" ending, this was not it.  In real life anyone that had invested that much into a relationship and were supposedly so in love would not suddenly one day wake up and decide they're not going to make it based on trust issues they realized they had (especially right after Charles' realization that Liza is the person he really wants to be with).  They would talk it over and perhaps decide to go for couples' counseling before calling it quits.  We're supposed to be talking about adults here, not high school kids.  What also made absolutely zero sense was Charles saying such glowing things to Liza about what a wonderful woman she is at the very end as he hands over control of his company to her (and not Diana).  Zero sense whatsoever.  I feel like they took the script and kept rewriting it so much it didn't make any sense anymore.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Yeah No

[dmc]

5 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I know.  How stupid could the guy be, too?  He should know she's under no obligation to pay him anything without a formal agreement.  Why would anyone do that?  I think the entire thing was stupid and unrealistic.  It was just another way for the show to screw Kelsey one last time on the way out the door, and not a very well thought out one either.  And I don't think she deserved it just because she didn't tell his old girlfriend that she was dating him either.

Because they need her single for the spin off.  Agreed this guy runs a business no way he doesn't know how deals work.  Also they set him up as a tycoon.  20% of whatever Kelsey is making is small potatoes to someone like him.  

[Yeah No]

38 minutes ago, dmc said:

Because they need her single for the spin off.  Agreed this guy runs a business no way he doesn't know how deals work.  Also they set him up as a tycoon.  20% of whatever Kelsey is making is small potatoes to someone like him.  

Speaking of the spin off I think a show with just Hilary and no one else from this show set in LA would be a snore but what do I know?  She was basically a snore on THIS show, why do we need more of her?  We need more Diana, Josh and Maggie.

[dmc]

1 minute ago, Yeah No said:

Speaking of the spin off I think a show with just Hilary and no one else from this show set in LA would be a snore but what do I know?  She was basically a snore on THIS show, why do we need more of her?  We need more Diana, Josh and Maggie.

Agreed it will be cancelled after one season.  My main interest in Kelsey was her friendship with Liza..  She hasn't had one solo storyline, I was interested in.  I would watch a Diana or Josh spin off.  but honestly can't hollywood come up with any new ideas.  Instead of Sex and the City 4th film and a friends reunion.  

[Aulty]

46 minutes ago, dmc said:

Agreed it will be cancelled after one season.  My main interest in Kelsey was her friendship with Liza..

The spin-off is already off the table, according to Darren Starr they were never that serious about it. Plus (and I assume that's the reason why), Hilary has booked that, potentially multi-season, HIMYM gig for Hulu (?).

One more word on Charles' trust issues re Liza keeping secrets: Mercury.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Aulty

[dmc]

3 minutes ago, Aulty said:

The spin-off is already off the table, according to Darren Starr they were never that serious about it. Plus (and I assume that's the reason why), Hilary has booked that, potentially multi-season, HIMYM gig for Hulu (?).

One more word on Charles' trust issues re Liza keeping secrets: Mercury.

aren't there people still mad for the way the first HIMYM ended LOL

[ElectricBoogaloo]

6 hours ago, Yeah No said:

a show with just Hilary and no one else from this show set in LA would be a snore but what do I know?  She was basically a snore on THIS show, why do we need more of her? 

Darren Star and the producers are under the false impression that Kelsey is the kind of #girlboss who is aspirational but all I've seen her do is make mistake after mistake in both her personal and professional lives, all while being pretty boring. She's like the definition of basic. Her only real purpose was introducing Liza to all the stuff that an Old Person allegedly doesn't know about. I did like her friendship with Liza, but on her own Kelsey was not interesting at all.

Edited June 14, 2021 by ElectricBoogaloo

[MissLucas]

3 hours ago, dmc said:

aren't there people still mad for the way the first HIMYM ended LOL

🙋‍♀️ Can't wait for HIMYF 🙄 but at least it has killed off the horrible idea of a Kelsey-centered spin-off. 

[MissL]

I FINALLY watched the finale and did Darren Star really said she ends up with neither guy? I mean I guess technically she’s not WITH Josh but that final scene really heavily implies there might be something there. And can I say yay?!! As someone who maybe way over-identified with this show I’m so glad to see the non typical route of the younger man continuing to be invested in and see the value of the older woman especially when as much progress as there has been youth is still key and women in their 40s seen as unf#$kable. ( I also maybe a little raw as I spent yesterday TRYING to shop for back to office clothes and it made me feel old. yikes what is UP with the clothes right now?!)

Anyway. As someone who generally picks the losing side of a triangle (Noel, Chloe, Stefan and lord help me Dawson back in the day although I wonder if I rewatched now....) I feel for the Charles team. I really was on his side at first until I realized some of the reasons I picked him for her was the old “age appropriate” “it will never work long term” stuff that hinged mostly on Josh’s age and profession. Also Charles is quite attractive. :) Then I saw her actually with Charles and ...she just seemed less herself with him.

So In summary I didnt enjoy this season. Missed Diana. Not enough Josh. Hated the “evil other woman trope” and Maggie deserves better. Liza and Charles was a waste of time storyline. Glad there is no Kelsey spin off and I wish the cast all the best!  Ooh that sounds so negative but this used to be television without pity so there ya go!

[ichbin]

On 6/11/2021 at 2:52 AM, Yeah No said:

What pisses me off is that the show could have gone in any direction but this season chose to turn Charles into an even stuffier fossil way older in mentality than his actual years, and surely not what would be best for Liza. 

Because white, wealthy middle-aged + men in the current cultural climate are viewed upon as persona non grata regardless of what they have done or accomplished. Having Liza wind up with Charles would most likely have received more backlash than any other ending.

[Yeah No]

41 minutes ago, ichbin said:

Because white, wealthy middle-aged + men in the current cultural climate are viewed upon as persona non grata regardless of what they have done or accomplished. Having Liza wind up with Charles would most likely have received more backlash than any other ending.

You're probably right, unfortunately.

[dubbel zout]

On 6/12/2021 at 10:44 AM, tennisgurl said:

Honestly the most unbelievable part of the finale for me was that anyone cared enough about a publishing employee who fudged her age to put her in their goofy fraud play alongside the likes of Billy McFarland. Who could possibly care that much outside the industry? The industry didn’t even ending up caring that much. Is Liza so infamous to be “worse” then any of those people? 

I thought that was ridiculous, too, but the costuming for the Liza character was dead on, and I enjoyed that enormously.

Speaking of costuming, Liza's dress at the anniversary party was absolutely gorgeous. And I also loved the wackiness of Lauren's Muppet coat. It had a very Carol Channing vibe that was great.

There were a lot of WTFs in this ending that everyone else has covered, but one thing I appreciated was that both Liza and Charles knew their relationship wasn't going to make it.

Add me to the long list of people completely bummed out that we had not even a Skype appearance from Diana. Miriam Shor was invaluable to the show. They couldn't have made something work?