Fear Thy Neighbor

[Persnickety1]

9 minutes ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

I love this!  Great minds think alike.....

Lots of people seem to have an odd hatred of Discovery Plus but I LOVE IT.  So much content, 90% is up my alley for $5 a month.  (Don't care for Chip and Joanna.)

 

I think know he used his firefighter/military reputation to his advantage.  

 

There was a true crime re-telling of an incident that happened here in the Twin Cities (Roseville) where a former student of a high school student was obsessed on her.  He did a "dry run" where he climbed up through the crawl space into the attic/upstairs where her and husband were IN BED.  The image of his head popping up under their bed while they were just sitting there, chatting was bone chilling!!!  It was May of 1980, and I think it was profiled on "Your Worst Nightmare."  He ended up abducting the mom and their 11/12 year old daughter for days.

If D+ had Bravo, I'd cancel my cable in a hot second.  I spend most of time on D+ and find entire seasons of programs on ID Discovery that I've never seen.  I watched "Disappeared" most of the day yesterday and found I'd never seen a single episode of season 8.  I love D+.  On a side note, I don't care for Chip and Joanna, either.  I've tried her cooking show but can't get into it.  

Regarding the bolded, I vaguely remember that episode you describe.  It was horrifying.  I'm going to track it down and watch it again today.  

I'm old as dirt, but people living in crawlspaces and attics always reminds me of this movie which I saw as a kid.  

 

[Mrs. Hanson]

5 minutes ago, Persnickety1 said:

If D+ had Bravo, I'd cancel my cable in a hot second.  I spend most of time on D+ and find entire seasons of programs on ID Discovery that I've never seen.  I watched "Disappeared" most of the day yesterday and found I'd never seen a single episode of season 8.  I love D+.  On a side note, I don't care for Chip and Joanna, either.  I've tried her cooking show but can't get into it.  

Regarding the bolded, I vaguely remember that episode you describe.  It was horrifying.  I'm going to track it down and watch it again today.  

I'm old as dirt, but people living in crawlspaces and attics always reminds me of this movie which I saw as a kid.  

 

Mary Stauffer was the name, it is Season Two Episode Ten, my friend!  One more thing about "Your Worst Nightmare":  they do a GREAT job with the acting and special effects.  There was one where guy was rebuffed by his neighbor and he spent six YEARS plotting revenge.  Six. Years.  I was watching with my hubby and college age son and we all agreed to fast forward through the torturing stuff.  I can't take it!  What is it with these guys who can't take no and come back and torture and kill a girl?  I mean.....really??

[Persnickety1]

1 minute ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

Mary Stauffer was the name, it is Season Two Episode Ten, my friend!  One more thing about "Your Worst Nightmare":  they do a GREAT job with the acting and special effects.  There was one where guy was rebuffed by his neighbor and he spent six YEARS plotting revenge.  Six. Years.  I was watching with my hubby and college age son and we all agreed to fast forward through the torturing stuff.  I can't take it!  What is it with these guys who can't take no and come back and torture and kill a girl?  I mean.....really??

I just found it!  The episode name is "High School Revenge."

Apparently Lifetime also made a movie about it, which I stumbled upon researching the ID Discovery episode.  Here's the trailer for it (it's from 2019).  

 

[Mrs. Hanson]

I apologize and will admit this is off topic, but is there a thread for the ID show "Reasonable Doubt"?  Seems like the folks here would like that show as well and I would love to hear other's opinions of it!  Thanks!

On 7/24/2021 at 11:51 AM, Persnickety1 said:

If D+ had Bravo, I'd cancel my cable in a hot second.  I spend most of time on D+ and find entire seasons of programs on ID Discovery that I've never seen.

Is there a specific show you are looking for on Bravo?  I can look at D+ and see if it airs!

 

[LittleIggy]

3 hours ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

I apologize and will admit this is off topic, but is there a thread for the ID show "Reasonable Doubt"?  Seems like the folks here would like that show as well and I would love to hear other's opinions of it!  Thanks!

 

 

You can start a topic yourself. I’ve done it for several shows, including “Fear Thy Neighbor.” It’s easy. I would suggest starting it under “Other Nonfiction Shows.”

[Mrs. Hanson]

20 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

You can start a topic yourself. I’ve done it for several shows, including “Fear Thy Neighbor.” It’s easy. I would suggest starting it under “Other Nonfiction Shows.”

Thank you so much!  

[Cobb Salad]

There’s a new episode tonight! 10pm

Edited June 14, 2022 by Cobb Salad

[Annber03]

Hoo boy, tonight's episode. I'm with Olivia's mom, the police really dropped the ball here. They should've checked to see if James had any guns in the house, and once they found them, they should've removed all the weapons from the home. And then they should've taken him to the drunk tank or someplace to sleep off his heavy drinking, and they should've ensured he didn't get his weapons back, nor be able to get his hands on any other ones. "I'm going to be in the newspapers tomorrow" - that's not a typical comment one makes when the police come to resolve a dispute. And the police knew that. The audio recording clearly shows they know exactly what kinds of threats he's making. 

So yeah. They definitely could've and should've been doing more. 

Also creepy the way he said he wasn't going to shoot Braeden. 

[LittleIggy]

On 6/13/2022 at 8:57 PM, Cobb Salad said:

There’s a new episode tonight! 10pm

I’ll have to watch it on demand. Glad to know there are new episodes.

Edited June 15, 2022 by LittleIggy

[LexieLily]

5 hours ago, Cobb Salad said:

There’s a new episode tonight! 10pm

There really needs to be some sort of system that ID/Oxygen has to promo new seasons of shows. I'll have to record the next reruns. Is this a new season?

[Cobb Salad]

3 hours ago, LexieLily said:

There really needs to be some sort of system that ID/Oxygen has to promo new seasons of shows. I'll have to record the next reruns. Is this a new season?

Yes, it’s a new season.  At the end of last nights episode they had a season preview.  ID has been running a commercial lately about upcoming new episodes for some of their shows and Fear Thy Neighbor but don’t give dates.  So yes they should do a better job of promoting when they’re going to be airing.  

[Cobb Salad]

19 hours ago, Annber03 said:

So yeah. They definitely could've and should've been doing more. 

Early on in the episode when I was taking note of the people commenting and the others involved I noticed neither of the kids were contributing so I figured this was going to have a bad ending.  Both mothers are obviously still visibly grief stricken years after James murdering their children so I’m hoping Derek’s (I think that was his name, right?) mom wins her lawsuit against the police.   I can’t even think what it would have been like for her little boy to also lose his mother if James’ shot at her was more accurate.  All of this over a parking space. 😡

[Annber03]

20 minutes ago, Cobb Salad said:

Early on in the episode when I was taking note of the people commenting and the others involved I noticed neither of the kids were contributing so I figured this was going to have a bad ending.  Both mothers are obviously still visibly grief stricken years after James murdering their children so I’m hoping Derek’s (I think that was his name, right?) mom wins her lawsuit against the police.   I can’t even think what it would have been like for her little boy to also lose his mother if James’ shot at her was more accurate.  All of this over a parking space. 😡

And poor Olivia wasn't even a regular resident of the home, she just visited a lot. 

The bolded...like I've said before, that's the thing that both fascinates and horrifies me the most about this show. So many stories of death and destruction over the most minor and/or dumbest of tiffs. It's absolutely ridiculous. 

[LittleIggy]

Glad the bloody hand is back!

That policeman really effed up! You have a drunk angry man saying he was going to shoot and kill his neighbors and you don’t ask about guns? Why not arrest the guy for making those threats. Let him cool his heels in lock-up. At the very least, tell the people he is threatening that he is threatening to kill them so they can go elsewhere for the night. 🤦‍♀️ I hope the mom wins her lawsuit. 
Not surprised James couldn’t keep employees.

[Annber03]

Just now, LittleIggy said:

Not surprised James couldn’t keep employees.

They talked at the beginning about how odd it was that the people who lived there last, wasn't it, looked very unhappy to be leaving. The mom just assumed it was because they were sad about moving, but after learning how James was, I'm guessing there was a lot more going on there that explained them leaving. 

[JudyObscure]

6 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I'm guessing there was a lot more going on there that explained them leaving. 

Yes, I wish we could have heard from them.

This one was so awful for those poor young people. Usually on this show I can find a little bit of fault with the victims, "If only you'd let that  pop bottle go,"  "If only you hadn't called the cops over the party noise,"  "If only you hadn't poisoned his dog," but this time the victims had been so patient, they didn't escalate anything, they paid the rent in spite of a bath tub full of sewage (shudder). 

 It wasn't even a parking space in the sense of a city parking space, meaning someone else had to walk a long way.  He had his own driveway to park in, he just didn't like the look of three cars on the other side.

Wasn't it creepy that his wife slipped out the back door while he was in his final rage?  I'll bet she thought she might be next.

[Cobb Salad]

9 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

It wasn't even a parking space in the sense of a city parking space, meaning someone else had to walk a long way.  He had his own driveway to park in, he just didn't like the look of three cars on the other side.

If the reenactment was accurate regarding the driveway setup it wasn’t like he was ever going to be blocked in by anyone else’s car either.  Some people just can’t be reasoned with and he demonstrated that in spades.  

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, Cobb Salad said:

If the reenactment was accurate regarding the driveway setup it wasn’t like he was ever going to be blocked in by anyone else’s car either.  Some people just can’t be reasoned with and he demonstrated that in spades.  

I know right? And he would have had that poor young Alivia  try to drive home in a blizzard because the city wouldn't let her park on the street and he wouldn't let her car stay in the driveway. 

[LittleIggy]

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I know right? And he would have had that poor young Alivia  try to drive home in a blizzard because the city wouldn't let her park on the street and he wouldn't let her car stay in the driveway. 

James wanted to be in charge, making the rules and enforcing them. Period.

If I had been hassled every time I went to see my boyfriend, I would have had my boyfriend come to my house.

[Annber03]

So, tonight's episode. That one cop claiming that they did all they could do to keep this from escalating any further...ehhhhhh, no, not really, dude? They did get taken in and put in jail at one point, yes, but only for a short time, and nothing about their dispute got resolved. They still got to go back home to continue their fight, still had access to weapons and had them at the ready to attack each other, still got away without any serious charges for the beatings that happened (those photos and videos of Randy and his wife all bloodied and bruised...that wasn't enough evidence to slap some serious charges on the other family? Really?)... It truly never ceases to amaze me how the police's hands always seem to remain tied for so long in these sorts of disputes, and how they can't ever seem to actually resolve these situations before they get to the point of violence. 

Again, though, both sides had some stupid moments. The family seemed to like to gang up on Randy a lot, but Randy certainly came off pretty feisty himself, and they all had many moments where they didn't really need to confront each other. Like the day of the shooting - both cars could've just, y'know, drove past each other and continued on their respective way. Not every single encounter needed to turn into some big showdown, guys, learn to chill. 

Also, Randy pulling out his gun - I mean, yeah, I agree that he clearly wasn't setting out that day intending to kill anybody, no. And I know that it's rural area and people carry guns there on the regular just because, too. 

But it's also true that you don't carry a gun around with you unless you're intending, or are preparing for the possibility, that you might need to use it at some point for some reason or another. Given he did have a history with these people, maybe just keep the gun at home, so that the situation doesn't need to escalate to someone being shot in the first place? I don't doubt he got sprayed in the face, but I will say that it did seem rather remarkable that despite being sprayed in the face, to where he could barely see, he still managed to shoot and kill the guy he was fighting most often with, the one whom he'd made a threat to not long beforehand, no less, with the whole "You'll be seeing your dad sooner than you thought!" rant and all. That's quite the accurate shot, don't ya think? I know one of the other people in the car got hit, too, of course, but still... 

But the people in the other car are just as responsible for things getting to this point, too. You know this guy has a gun. You know he's threatened you before. You've had many confrontations with him before. Why are you still antagonizing him and egging him on? Should it really be that shocking that things ended as they did? I don't know what else they were expecting or wanting to happen. 

[LittleIggy]

A West Virginia mountain feud! This is another case of both sides (although I think the family were worse) acting stupidly.  I know that if a guest at my house went and robbed a neighbor, getting caught red handed, I would be mortified. I wouldn’t be defending the thief. I think one of the brothers told the thief where to find the tools. 
I agree about the police not doing enough.

[JudyObscure]

I grew up about 20 miles from Clendenin, our school played them in all the sports.  When I see something like this my first thought is how much I miss the beauty of the area, but then I remember the people like the Elmores and I don't miss them one bit.

It really was two different worlds in Kanawha county.  There was the Ward and June Cleaver kind of suburb, like I grew up in, where the fathers wore suits and went to work in Charleston while their wives stayed home and led the PTA.  Then there were the kids who lived up in the mountain hollows and were raised by very different parents with lots of drinking and hard living.

I don't remember a single mean or snobbish word that my group ever said to the "holler" kids, but they were always on the defensive, always looking for a fight.  I remember one time on the school bus my eyes wandered over to one of the holler-girls and she just started screaming at me, "What do you think you're looking at?  Hope you get your eyes full you little..."  They were frightening, you didn't want to find yourself alone in the bathroom with a group of them.

That's why the wife who got shot in the arm, (Tasha?) seemed like the worst of the bunch to me. She was always egging things on and enjoying watching an old man be beaten with a pipe. Then to throw an older woman to the ground and kick her in the face?  Ugh. 

If they hadn't lied to Randy about the stolen tools, just apologized and returned them, Randy wouldn't have called the police and everything would have settled down.  They get no sympathy from me.

[Persnickety1]

So what's up with season 8?  It was supposed to premiere I believe last Monday but got bumped to apparently this coming Monday.  It's not even on D+ yet.

Do better, TLC.  Some of us are wringing our hands in anticipation.  I, unashamedly, am one of said hand wringers.  

[JudyObscure]

5 hours ago, Persnickety1 said:

So what's up with season 8?

Do you get any sort of cable, Persnickety?  I never watch this show on TV, but go to the Fear Thy Neighbor  website and watch it online.  All I have to do is link it to Spectrum with my Spectrum password.  I've seen 8-1 and 8-2 that way.

[North of Eden]

Episode 2...the hell was up with these hillbillies? They steal from Randy and somehow he's the villain? With that said Randy kept escalating things when he should have walked away. Getting the S#$t beat out of him with an iron bar should have been enough. Surprised he managedt o get out of prison and at the same time is totally unrepentant.

My favorite character was the exasperated deputy....still the cops really didn't help this tragic outcome. They should have done more.

I always laugh at how they try to pass Canada off as Anytown USA(Including the story set in either Florida or Hawaii) but for once the illusion was convincing.

Edited June 24, 2022 by North of Eden

[LittleIggy]

Poor John should have just put the misdelivered package in Santiago’s mailbox. Then again I’m sure Santiago would have found something else to start a feud over. 🤦‍♀️ I don’t think John did the things Santiago accused him of. Santiago had already run away one neighbor. I looked this case up online, and John was 80 and Santiago 84 at the time of the murder. The actors were younger than that 

[Annber03]

15 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

I looked this case up online, and John was 80 and Santiago 84 at the time of the murder. The actors were younger than that 

Oh, wow, that's interesting. It's always wild to me when people in that age range commit murder - I don't think it's an explanation in this particular case, but in some stories of that sort, I do wonder if and how much things like dementia play into older people committing that level of violence. 

But yeah, I agree that it seemed Santiago was ready to fight about any and everything, no matter how small. I was struck by the detail about how people couldn't see into his home, but he could see into other people's. And then he had those cameras to try and record all the stuff he claimed others were doing...all while he's sitting there calling people names. Like, you know that's going to be on the tape, too, right, dude? It does seem like he did struggle with some sort of...I don't know if "paranoia" is quite the right word, but he did seem to be very overly suspicious of people in general. Which, I guess, considering he was a veteran, may explain some of that to some degree, but even so... 

Meanwhile, this episode was yet another example of police's hands either being tied or them just refusing to get more involved until it was too late. Fifteen times they were out there. Come on. That's ridiculous. There's no excuse or reason that the police should keep getting called out that many times before somebody steps in and puts a stop to things so that they don't escalate to this kind of violence. It's amazing how common this sort of scenario is in this show. 

[Cobb Salad]

That Santiago was a real piece of work.  I’m perplexed by the one neighbor's statement about how caring a person he is yet he harassed a former neighbor to the point that he was forced to move.  Maybe it was the proximity of the neighbor to him.  How he was able to get away with installing a video system that had cameras pointed at the Seth’s house is pretty infuriating for me to understand.  They didn’t say but I guess they didn’t record the murder?  It was only with the testimony of the neighbor that they got the true story of what happened it seems. 

[Annber03]

58 minutes ago, Cobb Salad said:

It was only with the testimony of the neighbor that they got the true story of what happened it seems. 

I actually let out a little chuckle when that witness stepped forward. Here Santiago was, thinking he was going to get away with murder by pushing the whole "self-defense" story, and some random neighbor who just happened to be outside at the time comes in and is all, "No, actually, here's what really happened." Thank goodness they were able to help out as they did. 

[LittleIggy]

22 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I actually let out a little chuckle when that witness stepped forward. Here Santiago was, thinking he was going to get away with murder by pushing the whole "self-defense" story, and some random neighbor who just happened to be outside at the time comes in and is all, "No, actually, here's what really happened." Thank goodness they were able to help out as they did. 

Forensics would have contradicted his account that he was flat on his back when he shot John who was standing over him.

[Cobb Salad]

Never mind

Edited June 30, 2022 by Cobb Salad

[LittleIggy]

Why no Fear Thy Neighbor last night? 😡

[Annber03]

6 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Why no Fear Thy Neighbor last night? 😡

Holiday weekend, they were having a Joe Kenda marathon. 

[InDueTime]

The story of the episode, "I'm Not Moving" is on tonight's episode of Who Do You Believe? on ABC. It's about the two neighbors in Detroit. 

[Cobb Salad]

There’s a new episode tomorrow night 7/18!

[Annber03]

It amazes me how, so often on this show, somebody waves a gun around to send a message to others in the neighborhood that they are armed and ready to fight...

...and the response from the people they're feuding with always, always seems to be, "Let's antagonize and fight with them even more!" And then everyone acts shocked when the person who waved around the gun and threatened people with it actually winds up using it. Like, what exactly were you expecting? 

That being said, dude, spare me the, "He had a knife and I had to defend myself!" defense. Let's say for a moment that the knife actually was Brooks'. Clayton seriously thinks a gun is a viable response to someone holding a knife? Not exactly fighting on equal ground here, are we? But of course, the evidence proved that was a total lie anyway, so...

Again, though, a situation where both guys were acting like idiots. On one hand, there's Clayton hogging up all the parking space in the road as he did and following neighbors and staring at them all the time and whatnot*.

And then on the other, there's Brooks, who's WAY too up in people's personal business and can't seem to grasp the fact that some people just aren't very social sorts, and that's okay, and got all bent out of shape over what kinds of decorations the guy put in his own yard. They both should've just left each other be and that could've been that, but no, they had to make a big battle out of everything, and wouldn't stop pushing each other's buttons until it was too late. Good job, guys. 

*I like how Clayton blames the kids for his dog barking, acting like they must've done something. It's like it never occurred to him that sometimes dogs bark at virtually any and everything that crosses by them, because that's just what dogs do? Doesn't necessarily mean anyone did anything wrong. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Annber03

[LittleIggy]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

And then on the other, there's Brooks, who's WAY too up in people's personal business

But he’s “the mayor of the street!” 🙄 

Yeah, I would tend to steer clear of the guy who likes to wave a gun around, but that’s just me.

[Annber03]

7 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

But he’s “the mayor of the street!” 🙄 

I'm always automatically wary of anyone who takes that kind of role in their neighborhood THAT seriously. Lord knows we've heard many horror stories about people who appoint themselves the neighborhood leader going on a power trip, after all. 

[Cobb Salad]

Both Clayton and Brooks were a piece of work in their own way.  
At the start of the episode I was a bit empathetic towards Clayton since he liked to keep to himself but it didn’t take long to show he’s a jerk.  I roll my eyes at the neighbors who appoint themselves as the “mayor” of the neighborhood since they like to push themselves on to others who may just want to go about their own business.  Brooks should have just gotten the hint and steered clear.  I think it’s a good idea to steer clear of someone with a gun as well.  You’re never sure when they might use it and a stray bullet could come your way.  

[JudyObscure]

I've been watching random ones they throw out on the site.  Today it's "Cock-a-doodle-doo," and just as you've all been saying, we see some man start to get more and more angry and out of control, (this time over who owns the driveway) so the neighbor's response is to throw trash in the yard and have wild, loud parties every night -- even though they couldn't pay the rent. 

This one has an interesting narrator in Suzanne, a sad woman who was only slightly involved but  suffered the most.

[lu1535]

I don't understand why the wives don't try something to bring their husbands back to reality. I would like to think that if my husband was acting like such an asshole, I could talk him down or maybe lock him in a closet. SMH.

[Annber03]

58 minutes ago, lu1535 said:

I don't understand why the wives don't try something to bring their husbands back to reality. I would like to think that if my husband was acting like such an asshole, I could talk him down or maybe lock him in a closet. SMH.

In some episodes, some wives have tried doing just that. But their husbands are too stubborn and too stupid to listen to them even when they really should (I mean, when your own family tells you to chill the fuck out, one would think that should be a clear sign that you've gone overboard). Either that, or sometimes, the wives are just as bad as their husbands, if not worse. 

[Annber03]

Holy hell, this George guy in the latest episode. Talk about obnoxious. Bragging about the amount of guns he had, and his pride when talking about how he kept driving on Ron's lawn even though he knew it pissed Ron off... And he was WAY too cavalier when talking about how he nearly choked Ron. I got a kick out of how, on the one hand, he's putting on this big tough guy routine, driving on Ron's lawn and constantly picking a fight with him whenever he sees him and all that...

...and yet he also hides his guns and is all, "I could've gone up and kicked his door in, but he had guns..." and all that. So, are you afraid of him or not, dude, make up your mind. And if it's the former, WHY ARE YOU CONSTANTLY ANTAGONIZING HIM BY DRIVING ON HIS LAWN?! Or choking him? Like, come the hell on, you idiot. It was hard to have much sympathy for him when he got shot, 'cause it basically felt like a self-fulfilling prophecy sort of deal. Like I said with the last episode, I don't get these people who know someone has a gun, has seen them waving it around, and then acts shocked, shocked, I tell you, when the guy winds up actually using it.  And of course, the people who are the most protective of their guns always seem to be the same ones who prove precisely why they shouldn't have access to them at all. 

And Ron. Okay, forget the fact that he put George's life in danger with that wire across the trees. Suppose some random person who had absolutely no connection to these two and their beef came through there and got caught in that thing. Suppose some innocent person wound up in the crossfire whenever one of these "Mr. Macho Man" guys fired their guns at each other. That's the thing that pisses me off the most about these stories - it's bad enough that they're threatening each other, but we've seen many stories on this show where totally innocent people, who have absolutely no role in the stupid fights going on, wind up getting hurt and/or killed. Guests at that B&B had to leave because the fighting got to be too much for them. Why should innocent people have to live in fear because two guys can't get over themselves and quit acting like morons and find a non-violent way to resolve their issues? 

Those two honestly should've considered themselves lucky that nobody did get killed as a result of their fighting. Weird twist at the end, though, with the reveal of what ultimately did wind up happening to Ron. I felt bad for George's brother, he seemed to be the sane one of the three guys. George should've listened to him more. 

I have to say, though, I was already having a hard enough time taking this dumbass fight seriously as it was, because these guys were just being so over the top macho about it almost to the point of parody, but the Canadian accents and George ending sentences with "eh?" somehow made it that much goofier to me. Just the contrast between this obnoxious tough guy fight and the mild-mannered, polite sounding voice/accent...I dunno, it amused me :p. 

[LittleIggy]

So the cops won’t arrest a guy who was choking a man when there was a third party witness? 🤦‍♀️

[Annber03]

5 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

So the cops won’t arrest a guy who was choking a man when there was a third party witness? 🤦‍♀️

Right? I was sitting here watching this and thinking, "Wow, Canadian cops seem just as unable/unwilling to get involved in these kinds of disputes as American cops do." 

[Cobb Salad]

17 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Those two honestly should've considered themselves lucky that nobody did get killed as a result of their fighting. Weird twist at the end, though, with the reveal of what ultimately did wind up happening to Ron. I felt bad for George's brother, he seemed to be the sane one of the three guys. George should've listened to him more. 

Since George told us his side of the story (and it didn’t look like he was in jail)  I was wondering what the deal was with Ron until they told us at the end.  Lucky for George regarding where he had his phone and wallet that day.  I’ll never understand how people allow themselves to get themselves so worked up over something that they have to be continuously fighting with someone then try to end it with shooting the person and try to use self defense as a get out of jail free card.  They were both jerks and I found them both annoying.  

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, Cobb Salad said:

Since George told us his side of the story (and it didn’t look like he was in jail)  I was wondering what the deal was with Ron until they told us at the end.  Lucky for George regarding where he had his phone and wallet that day.  I’ll never understand how people allow themselves to get themselves so worked up over something that they have to be continuously fighting with someone then try to end it with shooting the person and try to use self defense as a get out of jail free card.  They were both jerks and I found them both annoying.  

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing in wondering what happened to Ron. Clearly he lost this battle somehow, it was just a matter of learning exactly how. 

My mom feels like there's a lot more to the story about the day of the shooting than George is letting on. It wouldn't surprise me if that were the case. And yes to your thoughts on the "self defense as a 'get out of jail free' card". WAY too many people nowadays using that and/or the whole "stand your ground" defense and taking it to its most extreme limits. 

[JudyObscure]

On 7/25/2022 at 11:26 PM, Annber03 said:

I have to say, though, I was already having a hard enough time taking this dumbass fight seriously as it was, because these guys were just being so over the top macho about it almost to the point of parody, but the Canadian accents and George ending sentences with "eh?" somehow made it that much goofier to me. Just the contrast between this obnoxious tough guy fight and the mild-mannered, polite sounding voice/accent...I dunno, it amused me :p. 

It was funny to me, too.  Canadians just can't do menacing like my West Virginia hillbillies.

[renatae]

I, too, found George to be an obnoxious, smug jerk. He was constantly baiting his neighbor with his behavior. He couldn't just drive on the road? He had to drive on the lawn every other day? Not to mention poaching lumber constantly. "Oh, I didn't know I could get in trouble for that. Oh, I didn't know I could get in trouble for choking Ron. Or shoving him in his truck and putting it in gear while he was laid out sideways across the seats. Fancy that." Moron.

Edited July 30, 2022 by renatae

[Annber03]

"Calvin just pushed him to his limit."

And Victor didn't do the same to Calvin? Please. That lady had some serious blinders on about her friend. I live in an apartment building, too. I've lived in many apartment buildings throughout my lifetime. Yes, there's always that inevitable bit of noise that will come with living in a building alongside other people that sometimes can't be helped, but it's really not THAT hard to keep the noise level to at least a reasonable/tolerable level, or to be quiet altogether when possible. The guy had numerous complaints against him for his noise. He deliberately would turn up his stereo and make a ruckus with his friends because he knew full well it'd piss Calvin off. I wonder if and how many other neighbors had complaints about him, too. Calvin had every single right to complain about him, because he was being obnoxious and disrespectful as hell. 

That being said, it's hard to have much sympathy for Calvin the moment he took his gun with him that day and the shooting happened. Like I've said before, you bring a gun with you, I think you're basically creating a self-fulfilling prophecy and almost begging for a confrontation. It makes it that much harder for me to buy the "self-defense" argument - yeah, Victor was grabbing at him and wrestling with him, but if Calvin hadn't had his gun with him, nobody would've run the risk of being shot. That's just basic facts. 

And besides that, once again, I can't have sympathy for people who carry their gun in public and use it as part of a confrontation. Suppose somebody else had been passing through the building at that time, another tenant or a visitor or something, or had come out of their apartment to try and see what was going on, and gotten shot. I can't feel sorry for people who fight in public and potentially put the safety of other innocent people around them at risk. He deserved the jail time, sorry - and he should consider himself lucky it was as light as it was, all things considered. 

On a totally different note, did I read right that they said the shooting happened in mid to late May sometime? So...uhhhh...why were they showing a snowy winter-ish scene? I mean, I know the weather can get wonky up this way even in the spring - my town got a snowstorm on May 1st one year - but that still had me going, "...wait, huh?"

Edited August 2, 2022 by Annber03