S03.E10: Trust Me

[Clanstarling]

11 hours ago, ams1001 said:

I hadn't heard of that, either. According to Psychology Today:

"The fawn response involves immediately moving to try to please a person to avoid any conflict. This is often a response developed in childhood trauma, where a parent or a significant authority figure is the abuser. Children go into a fawn-like response to attempt to avoid the abuse, which may be verbal, physical, or sexual, by being a pleaser. In other words, they preemptively attempt to appease the abuser by agreeing, answering what they know the parent wants to hear, or by ignoring their personal feelings and desires and do anything and everything to prevent the abuse."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/addiction-and-recovery/202008/understanding-fight-flight-freeze-and-the-fawn-response

Thank you. I recognize that behavior. It's not one I gravitate to, but I have seen it in people in my life.

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Just because Jackie is in rehab doesn't mean she's not allowed to share the wisdom of her experience with other people who are in treatment. Many addicts fall off the wagon. It's not because they're stupid. If anything, admitting that you need help and recognizing that you need professional help is smart. Being an addict doesn't take away from all the life experience you have. Someone who's been in recovery can be smart about lots of things, including their addiction (how many times have the rest of us made a bad decision while KNOWING it was a bad decision but we did it anyway?). Sometimes going to a meeting or talking with your sponsor isn't enough. There's no shame in that, and it doesn't negate all of your knowledge.

A lot of what Jackie told Eddie this week wasn't specifically about addiction (although it can be somewhat related). It was about letting go of who you think you're supposed to be and being who you really are. That's valid advice for anyone, not just someone in rehab. Same with what she said last week - he was thinking of himself as the victim instead of focusing on what was best for his kid (again, good advice for everyone, not just addicts).

Just because this advice came from an addict doesn't mean it isn't valid. I think Jackie is just trying to share what she's learned to help someone who she sees struggling. It's similar to when my friend got married a year after I did and was looking for a wedding venue in the same city. I gave her a lot of tips because I had just dealt with many of the same issues. People give advice when they see someone who could benefit from the knowledge they already have. It's like the real life version of "what would you tell the younger version of yourself?" Jackie's struggle isn't exactly the same as Eddie's, but there are some commonalities, and as she said, she sees some of herself in him. She's trying to help him from making all the same mistakes she did (which is something that a therapist wouldn't do so explicitly).

You said what I was going to say - only much, much better.

[gonzosgirrl]

Lizzie Green got an honorable mention for TV LINE'S performer of the week for this ep.

[cardigirl]

On 4/17/2021 at 1:01 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Just because Jackie is in rehab doesn't mean she's not allowed to share the wisdom of her experience with other people who are in treatment. Many addicts fall off the wagon. It's not because they're stupid. If anything, admitting that you need help and recognizing that you need professional help is smart. Being an addict doesn't take away from all the life experience you have. Someone who's been in recovery can be smart about lots of things, including their addiction (how many times have the rest of us made a bad decision while KNOWING it was a bad decision but we did it anyway?). Sometimes going to a meeting or talking with your sponsor isn't enough. There's no shame in that, and it doesn't negate all of your knowledge.

A lot of what Jackie told Eddie this week wasn't specifically about addiction (although it can be somewhat related). It was about letting go of who you think you're supposed to be and being who you really are. That's valid advice for anyone, not just someone in rehab. Same with what she said last week - he was thinking of himself as the victim instead of focusing on what was best for his kid (again, good advice for everyone, not just addicts).

Just because this advice came from an addict doesn't mean it isn't valid. I think Jackie is just trying to share what she's learned to help someone who she sees struggling. It's similar to when my friend got married a year after I did and was looking for a wedding venue in the same city. I gave her a lot of tips because I had just dealt with many of the same issues. People give advice when they see someone who could benefit from the knowledge they already have. It's like the real life version of "what would you tell the younger version of yourself?" Jackie's struggle isn't exactly the same as Eddie's, but there are some commonalities, and as she said, she sees some of herself in him. She's trying to help him from making all the same mistakes she did (which is something that a therapist wouldn't do so explicitly).

Maybe, but she speaks as if she figured out the key, when clearly something didn't work for her.

She's made valid points to Eddie about him only thinking about his pain and not the pain he's caused others, but she's not reciprocated with any of her story or why she's in rehab. 
 

Maybe she is a therapist who became addicted to pain meds or some such, but we don't know. All we know is she's giving a lot of advice to Eddie, and we know nothing about her. 

Edited April 19, 2021 by cardigirl

[historylover820]

15 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Maybe, but she speaks as if she figured out the key, when clearly something didn't work for her.

She's made valid points to Eddie about him only thinking about his pain and not the pain he's caused others, but she's not reciprocated with any of her story or why she's in rehab. 
 

Maybe she is a therapist who became addicted to pain meds or some such, but we don't know. All we know is she's giving a lot of advice to Eddie, and we know nothing about her. 

I think you hit the nail on the head with my problem with her and said it better than I could.

The points she made are absolutely sound and needed to be said. But, I don't know, I guess it came off as condescending? She's in rehab, but she came across as someone who has got it all figured out. So, if that's the case, why is she in in-patient therapy?

And, trust me, I understand about relapsing and falling off the wagon. There just seems to be something condescending about how it was presented. Like she's better than Eddie because she recognizes the pain she's caused others and Eddie hasn't quite realized it. Maybe because it was one random scene?

I don't know.

You know, I wonder if it's coincidence that the two shows that I like that air on Wednesday both feature a character in a rehab facility?

[Sandman]

On 4/15/2021 at 8:05 AM, cardigirl said:

As much as I like Jackie, she is in a treatment facility with Eddie, and apparently NOT a therapist, but a fellow drug/drink addict. So wise though her words are, why is she there? I would find her wisdom a bit more believable if she were on the staff. Maybe the character is, but that hasn't been established, really, and playing cards with Eddie seems to indicate that she's a patient/rehabber herself. So let's find out more about Jackie.

Sorry, but I think Jackie's full of herself, and if the audience is meant to accept her take on Eddie as accurate as far the writers are concerned, then I am going to have a bigger problem with the rehab storyline: Jackie's premise seems to be that Eddie's problem is that he is incapable of living up to (or perhaps "living for" is a fairer way to put it) other people's expectations of him, and the only way he will be healthy is if he lives as his real self, apart from those expectations. Do the writers really suppose that the root of addiction is not being one's authentic self? That might be the stupidest of the million stupid things this show has come up with so far.

Edited to say I did think she had it right in the earlier episode about Eddie's focus on his own pain and resentment, rather than on the pain he's caused others; I also agree that she said this in pretty much the most condescending way possible.

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Sandman

[TOWTooMuchTV]

This is really beside the point of the whole episode, which I thought was really well done, but as a big fan of Being Erica I hope they use Erin Karpluk as more than basically a prop. I wonder if Gary is going to wind up interacting with her and focus on trying to alert her to/save her from Peter rather than killing him, since saving other people is more Gary's usual style. 

[TOWTooMuchTV]

4 hours ago, Sandman said:

Sorry, but I think Jackie's full of herself, and if the audience is meant to accept her take on Eddie as accurate as far the writers are concerned, then I am going to have a bigger problem with the rehab storyline: Jackie's premise seems to be that Eddie's problem is that he is incapable of living up to (or perhaps "living for" is a fairer way to put it) other people's expectations of him, and the only way he will be healthy is if he lives as his real self, apart from those expectations. Do the writers really suppose that the root of addiction is not being one's authentic self? That might be the stupidest of the million stupid things this show has come up with so far.

Absolutely agree with this!! If that's the message, it invalidates Eddie's whole journey and finding his way back to happiness with Katherine and as a father to Theo and Charlie (if he remembers she exists...if any of us do). She asked at first why he stopped playing music - so is her message that he should be doing that and not trying to be a good husband and father? What have we been following for the past two years then? Just because her problems stemmed from not being true to herself and she found her way through that doesn't mean his recovery has to work the same way. Maybe I misinterpreted but I feel like this advice sets Eddie up to going back to literal square one, episode one of the series where he felt Katherine was the cause of his unhappiness and wanted to leave his life to be with Delilah. 

[historylover820]

4 hours ago, Sandman said:

Sorry, but I think Jackie's full of herself, and if the audience is meant to accept her take on Eddie as accurate as far the writers are concerned, then I am going to have a bigger problem with the rehab storyline: Jackie's premise seems to be that Eddie's problem is that he is incapable of living up to (or perhaps "living for" is a fairer way to put it) other people's expectations of him, and the only way he will be healthy is if he lives as his real self, apart from those expectations. Do the writers really suppose that the root of addiction is not being one's authentic self? That might be the stupidest of the million stupid things this show has come up with so far.

Edited to say I did think she had it right in the earlier episode about Eddie's focus on his own pain and resentment, rather than on the pain he's caused others; I also agree that she said this in pretty much the most condescending way possible.

 

100% agree.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I thought what she was saying was that he needs to start being honest, both with himself as well as with Katherine and his friends. He's an addict who was pretending to everyone that he was totally fine instead of admitting that he's been angry and frustrated about being in a wheelchair and that he's in so much pain that he needs medication. If he had just been honest about these things instead of hiding it all, they could have given him the emotional support he needed as well as sought out additional resources for him (a therapist, alternative pain meds, etc). Whenever Katherine or the guys asked how he was doing, he just pasted on a smile and said he was great which did no one any favors. To me, that was Eddie pretending to be strong and okay because that's what he thinks everyone wants to hear. In reality, no one would think any less of him for admitting that it SUCKS to be injured or that being in an accident caused him pain.

[Sandman]

11 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

If he had just been honest about these things instead of hiding it all, they could have given him the emotional support he needed as well as sought out additional resources for him (a therapist, alternative pain meds, etc). Whenever Katherine or the guys asked how he was doing, he just pasted on a smile and said he was great which did no one any favors.

This interpretation hadn't occurred to me, honestly, but I think it could work -- except that Jackie's emphasis seemed to be more on others' expectations than on Eddie's being honest with himself. But let's go with this. It'll be less likely to make me want to slam my head against my desk. For which I thank you.

[historylover820]

14 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I thought what she was saying was that he needs to start being honest, both with himself as well as with Katherine and his friends. He's an addict who was pretending to everyone that he was totally fine instead of admitting that he's been angry and frustrated about being in a wheelchair and that he's in so much pain that he needs medication. If he had just been honest about these things instead of hiding it all, they could have given him the emotional support he needed as well as sought out additional resources for him (a therapist, alternative pain meds, etc). Whenever Katherine or the guys asked how he was doing, he just pasted on a smile and said he was great which did no one any favors. To me, that was Eddie pretending to be strong and okay because that's what he thinks everyone wants to hear. In reality, no one would think any less of him for admitting that it SUCKS to be injured or that being in an accident caused him pain.

And I completely agree with this interpretation as well.

But, I still think Jackie came across as condescending. It wasn't the advice given--this was good advice and something Eddie needed to be told (now if he'll listen to that is up in the air), but the way it was given that makes me not sold on Jackie like so many others are.

[suzeecat]

On 4/15/2021 at 9:18 AM, Lady Calypso said:

So, they really went there with Sophie and her guitar teacher. I think Peter convincing Sophie to wear the swimsuit and getting a bit touchy with her was enough to scream "groomer", but they really took it further with him touching himself as well. Like, holy crap, what a predatory creep! I can't wait to see him get thrown in jail for his behaviour. Lizzy Greene did an amazing job with Sophie's confusion, fear and hurt all throughout this episode, and Regina/Maggie were in top form with how they handled the situation. Maggie, in particular, was really great with how she approached Sophie, but also how she had to calm Gary down. It's no surprise Gary couldn't comprehend Sophie's state of mind and why she was acting the way that she was. Maggie telling Gary why was a brilliant scene.

This (Sophie/Peter scenario) was some of the best TV I've seen in a long time, surprisingly from a show that usually frustrates me with its' writing/acting.  I would love to see this presented in high schools in sex ed or whatever it is called these days.  Well done, well done!

Maybe I haven't been watching as carefully as I should have to understand Rome's attitude about the woman in the cemetery, but how dare he had an attitude about his dad having a relationship after his mom has passed?  I can see him feeling some kind of way but to scold his dad as if he were catching him in an act of infidelity was definitely sheesh-worthy.

Edited April 27, 2021 by suzeecat
additional thought

[smartymarty]

On 4/15/2021 at 4:35 PM, Clanstarling said:

Tig had apparently been a friend, or knew CK - not sure anymore.

He was an executive producer of One Mississippi.

[Clanstarling]

40 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

He was an executive producer of One Mississippi.

Which makes that particular episode even more surprising, and gutsy.