S03.E10: Trust Me

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

When Sophie is distraught after a disturbing encounter, Gary calls in Maggie and Regina for support; Eddie makes an unexpected friend.

Promo:

Original air date: 4/14/21

[nexxie]

It will be nice to see Regina get out of the restaurant and Maggie get out of her own head. Wonder if Sophie’s mother will weigh in from France.

[historylover820]

Still can't get ABC. Still not being about to sign into on demand because I don't have cable. So, pretty sure I won't be watching.

[historylover820]

I believe I will see how long a free trial to Hulu is. 

[SunnyBeBe]

How old is Sophie?  Well, Maggie should be able to help with this.  

Edited April 15, 2021 by SunnyBeBe

[ams1001]

Oh, Gary, you are nowhere near the middle of this pandemic, in AMLT-time.

3 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

How old is Sophie?  Well, Maggie should be able to help with this.  

16? Maybe 17...hard to know the timeline on this show.

 

[SunnyBeBe]

I can’t stand that old cliche thing where the guy has to threaten to kill the abuser or beat them up.....whatever.  They don’t consider how this kind of behavior frightens the victim.  They are scared the protector will get hurt, get arrested, go to prison, etc.  it also inspires the victim to keep silent about future abuse.  The victim would rather suffer than risk the macho guy from getting hurt or into trouble by attacking someone who harmed them.  

[KaveDweller]

Wow, is Sophie's teacher a creep.  The bathing suit stuff was gross enough, and I thought they were going to leave it there were there could be some ambiguity about his intentions. But then they just went for it with the sick pleasuring himself part. Poor Sophie, and Gary is not helping the situation at all. At least he knew to call Maggie.

I liked Eddie's rehab mate telling him how it is.

I was expecting a reveal that Rome's father wasn't really the one texting him or something. But it can't really be anyone else, so I guess that was silly. It is kind of sad that his dad can't be that nice in person.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I really felt for Rome and his dad. Rome got so excited and felt like he was finally connecting with his dad when texting at night but his dad was the same gruff guy in person, much to Rome's disappointment. His dad, on the other hand, clearly has a hard time actually saying these things aloud but typing/texting allows him to be more honest but he still can't bring himself to be free like that in person. As someone whose dad was not a very communicative person and didn't say "I love you" often, I understand Rome's frustration. It's hard when you love your dad but he doesn't show affection the way that you want him to.

Peter is so gross. As soon as she told him what her song was about, he was like BINGO, vulnerable damaged girl ripe for grooming! From that moment on, he was manipulating her so that he could get what he wanted.

I appreciate that Gary quickly realized that he was out of his depth and immediately called Maggie and Gina for help. This was one of the few times in three seasons that Maggie being a therapist has been useful. I'm not saying that I need to watch her with patients all the time but I'm glad that she has been able to help Rome, Gina, Darcy, and now Sophie thanks to her training and connections. It was not at all surprising that Gary could not comprehend why Sophie was blaming herself for what happened but that Maggie and Gina immediately got it.

Jackie continues to be awesome so I hope to see her setting Eddie straight every week.

[Snazzy Daisy]

Maggie is quite tolerable in this episode. Maggie explaining to Gary on Sophie’s line of thinking, this is done brilliantly. Since season 1, this show wants us to believe that Maggie is an amazing & awesome friend who is empathetic & always know how to pull emotions out of people but she seems like a typical TV psychologist to me.

Am glad they went with the grooming story rather than the typical love affair. Andrew Leeds plays Peter well, it’s creepy! Kudos to Lizzy Greene, I think this is her finest acting to date, can feel her confusion & pain. Lizzy has shown us that she can carry an episode with heavy/disturbing material, so much better than her TV mom! I have a strong feeling that Stephanie Szostak may not be returning to this show, no FaceTime scene, not even voice call.

I don’t know what to expect from Rome/Walter/Florence’s storyline. Don’t care about Eddie. No Theo, no Tyrell, yayyy! 😆

I really want Eddie’s new friend - Jackie to meet Carter, their scene(s) will be awesome & full of great punchlines! 😘

Edited April 15, 2021 by SnazzyDaisy

[cardigirl]

As much as I like Jackie, she is in a treatment facility with Eddie, and apparently NOT a therapist, but a fellow drug/drink addict. So wise though her words are, why is she there? I would find her wisdom a bit more believable if she were on the staff. Maybe the character is, but that hasn't been established, really, and playing cards with Eddie seems to indicate that she's a patient/rehabber herself. So let's find out more about Jackie.

I did enjoy the rest of the acting in this storyline. I'm not usually wanting to watch 'stories that inform' but tonight wasn't too bad, and all the actors involved did great work. 

I liked Rome and his dad, and I love Karen Robinson (woman in the graveyard) so I'm interested in seeing what her character brings. Karen was wonderful in Schitt's Creek.  

Good episode, except for the pulled-together Jackie in rehab. That doesn't make sense, unless she's a therapist undercover. 😄 

Edited April 15, 2021 by cardigirl

[Arcadiasw]

I'll wait and see what happens with Rome/Walter/Florence but I'm guessing Florence is the new woman in Walter's life.

Maggie offered really good advice to Gary about Sophie. I was convinced she was a therapist 😅

[Lady Calypso]

So, they really went there with Sophie and her guitar teacher. I think Peter convincing Sophie to wear the swimsuit and getting a bit touchy with her was enough to scream "groomer", but they really took it further with him touching himself as well. Like, holy crap, what a predatory creep! I can't wait to see him get thrown in jail for his behaviour. Lizzy Greene did an amazing job with Sophie's confusion, fear and hurt all throughout this episode, and Regina/Maggie were in top form with how they handled the situation. Maggie, in particular, was really great with how she approached Sophie, but also how she had to calm Gary down. It's no surprise Gary couldn't comprehend Sophie's state of mind and why she was acting the way that she was. Maggie telling Gary why was a brilliant scene.

So, honestly, I thought, once we saw the woman in the graveyard at the end who clearly knew Walter, that it would be revealed that she was the one writing to Rome at night. It just seemed, even with how she spoke, that it sounded like the messages Walter was sending Rome at night. But...it would be a SUPER invasion of privacy and deception for her to do that, so I hope it's more that Walter can't express his true feelings in person. 

I guess they wanted Eddie in one scene and they still make him look like an ass! Jackie really does seem more like a therapist than a patient. She's put together well, and doesn't seem like she'd be in rehab at that point, unless she's REALLY good at masking her addiction and the doctors see that. Plus, Eddie needing someone to TELL him how to redeem himself is a weird way of handling this. But Jackie isn't all that bad of a character and her scene with Eddie was good enough.

 

[LucyEth]

This must be the only episode where I actually liked Maggie.  Not sure why an unknown woman was at the cemetery at night by herself without Rome’s dad, that seemed strange to me.  Sophie seemed leery of the teacher asking her to put on a bathing suit, not sure why she would stand there while he pleasured himself, she seems like a smart person and would immediately bolt and know to never return.  The season is almost over and still no Delilah and no news on why we are not seeing her.  Weird!

[ams1001]

6 minutes ago, LucyEth said:

Not sure why an unknown woman was at the cemetery at night by herself without Rome’s dad,

It looked like she was visiting a nearby grave. Maybe her husband died recently, too, and she visits frequently and met Rome's dad that way so they started talking.

[cardigirl]

10 minutes ago, LucyEth said:

 Sophie seemed leery of the teacher asking her to put on a bathing suit, not sure why she would stand there while he pleasured himself, she seems like a smart person and would immediately bolt and know to never return.  

Because she was in shock and didn't want to believe that that was what was happening. She trusted this guy, and believed he held the key to her future plans for a music career. If she believed that what he was doing was wrong/inappropriate, that meant she was naive/stupid/wrong, and all of her plans/dreams were gone. So she refused to believe that he really was doing what he was doing.  They did an excellent job of setting her up to trust this guy. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

 

1 hour ago, LucyEth said:

Sophie seemed leery of the teacher asking her to put on a bathing suit, not sure why she would stand there while he pleasured himself, she seems like a smart person and would immediately bolt and know to never return.

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

Because she was in shock and didn't want to believe that that was what was happening. She trusted this guy, and believed he held the key to her future plans for a music career. If she believed that what he was doing was wrong/inappropriate, that meant she was naive/stupid/wrong, and all of her plans/dreams were gone. So she refused to believe that he really was doing what he was doing.  They did an excellent job of setting her up to trust this guy. 

Harvey Weinstein inspired this storyline, I’m guessing. I can totally understand Sophie freezing, in shock, incredulous. “This isn’t happening.” You just can’t believe that someone is behaving this way because it’s too bizarre.

But I raise an eyebrow at her sending the Britney Spears photo. I could see her pretending nothing happened and never addressing it. And then, in the future, as soon as he tried this kind of stunt again, walking away.

[LucyEth]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

They did an excellent job of setting her up to trust this guy. 

When was the last time we saw this guy?  I don’t remember, was it out on the street when he said he would give her a chance?

[ams1001]

Just now, LucyEth said:

When was the last time we saw this guy?  I don’t remember, was it out on the street when he said he would give her a chance?

I believe so.

It throws me off because he's in Zoey's Extraordinary Playlist. So I saw him on Sunday. 😉 

[LucyEth]

They continue to lay the groundwork to bring Maggie and Gary back together.  I think Darcy will come back from her therapy stay or wherever she is and end it with Gary because therapy will make her realize she has to heal herself etc before she can commit to anyone.  This will leave Gary a chance to rekindle things with Maggie guilt free.  Also, the audience who likes Darcey will not dislike Gary.  Just my thoughts and opinions.

[tennisgurl]

Oh yeah Gary, going to jail will totally help Sophie deal with this most recent trauma. 

I know I bring this up a lot, but holy shit, these people must be exhausted. There is always something going on, always some fresh new issue to be dealt with, and every person they meet is going through some other issue or is a total creep, it must just be is tiring to be in a new very special episode every single day. 

As long as Gary doesn't go onto beat the creep teacher up, he actually did handle the situation well, giving Sophie come space and calling Maggie in. Maggie actually was good this week, she did seem like a good therapist and more like the empathetic person everyone always says she is than usual. Her explaining to Gary why Sophie just went along with the creep and sending a picture to him to try and normalize things was really well done. This is probably the best the actress playing Sophie has ever been. They seemed to be playing coy for a bit with whether or not the teacher would turn out to be a creep, but oh yeah they really went there. I don't know why I was surprised, this show will usually pick the most dramatic turn for any story. They did a good job building up how Sophie came to trust this guy and how he abused that trust. 

So Jackie is actually a patient and not a therapist at the rehab? I guess that explains why she was dumping all this stuff on him last week while he was clearly still detoxing, but she does still seem more like a therapist then a patient, its weird.  Hopefully he is seeing an actual therapist as well. I like her though, God knows Eddie needs the real talk. Eddie does sure get mean when he's off the wagon, no wonder his band fell apart. I still hate that the show went this way with Eddie's injury. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by tennisgurl

[SunnyBeBe]

Jackie seemed like a wise soul who has come a long way in becoming who she really is as a person.  I liked that quote she made about it...,something about him never being something that others expect.  Just learn to be happy with who you are, not what is expected.   It made me think about myself....I could use a big dose of that philosophy.  I suppose that while Jackie is solid on that issue, she struggles with substances and that’s why she’s there.  I didn’t realize they allowed cards in rehab, though. Wouldn’t it trigger a person with gambling addiction?

[Cosmocrush]

4 hours ago, LucyEth said:

Sophie seemed leery of the teacher asking her to put on a bathing suit, not sure why she would stand there while he pleasured himself, she seems like a smart person and would immediately bolt and know to never return. 

 

4 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Because she was in shock and didn't want to believe that that was what was happening. She trusted this guy, and believed he held the key to her future plans for a music career. If she believed that what he was doing was wrong/inappropriate, that meant she was naive/stupid/wrong, and all of her plans/dreams were gone. So she refused to believe that he really was doing what he was doing.  They did an excellent job of setting her up to trust this guy. 

Yes, this!!   Something similar happened to me a hundred years ago except I was 23 not 16 but everytime a story like this comes up I remember it.   Of course in those days, it wasn't considered assault - just the price of a career where female leadership roles are lacking.   🤬  I liked this storyline very much and how Maggie explained it to Gary (and the viewers).   When someone you have no reason to distrust has real or perceived power over your future it's not uncommon to just become paralyzed and confused. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Cosmocrush

[marceline]

I usually find this group of friends to be really incestuous but they really came through for Sophie in this ep. I mean, Gary is always so...extra but I liked when Extra Gary turned into This-Shit-Is-Real-and-I'm-Way-Out-of-My-Depth Gary.

Whatever my issues with Maggie, I think the show does a good job of showing her to be a competent professional most of the time.

The show circling back to Gina and her history with her uncle into this was a really good move.

I liked Jackie reading Eddie for filth. When she said "There are so many mistakes with what you just said" I wanted to applaud. Eddie was serving up some real "I would've voted for Obama a third time" energy.

[marceline]

4 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Harvey Weinstein inspired this storyline, I’m guessing. 

I was thinking Louis CK but sadly it could be either and/or a whole lot more.

[cardigirl]

14 minutes ago, marceline said:

I liked Jackie reading Eddie for filth. When she said "There are so many mistakes with what you just said" I wanted to applaud. Eddie was serving up some real "I would've voted for Obama a third time" energy.

I get that everyone likes Jackie for not letting Eddie get away with feeling sorry for himself. He had no understanding of her struggles when he compared himself to having no choice about ending up in a wheelchair (for no good reason as he sees it) to her. But this is why I have so much trouble with the character.  She's dropping all of these "pearls of wisdom" on him from her position of what? Superiority? She's got it all figured out? She's in a rehab center. When she stopped being who everyone else thought she should be she still ended up there.

She hasn't really told us anything about who she is or how she came to be sitting across that table from Eddie.  At least when Gary gives Eddie tough love, we know where that is coming from. So until we find out more about her, I'm not all in on Jackie. (I like her, but the way this show is written drives me nuts. I need some idea of who she is.) 

[Madding crowd]

I want to know what Eddie is doing for his pain because pain doesn’t just go away and stopping pills doesn’t stop actual physical pain.

Sophie’s story was well done but the show is throwing every possible issue at the characters and it is too much. At least I’m glad Sophie called her mom at the end because a parent needs to be informed about this stuff ( obviously I’m not talking about cases where the parent is an abuser). 

[Winston Wolfe]

51 minutes ago, marceline said:

Gary is always so...extra but I liked when Extra Gary turned into This-Shit-Is-Real-and-I'm-Way-Out-of-My-Depth Gary.

Once he realized there was no emoting or clowning his way out of whatever Sophie's issue(s) was/were, he knew it was time to call a real grown-up into the room. Btw, although I don't condone it, I totally understand his impulse to beat the crap out of Peter. Kudos to him for controlling his rage and understanding how short-term gratification might have led to long term problems.

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Winston Wolfe

[Winston Wolfe]

53 minutes ago, marceline said:

Whatever my issues with Maggie, I think the show does a good job of showing her to be a competent professional most of the time

I don't remember seeing Maggie at work before, but she really came off as a highly competent mental health practitioner.  Maggie's actually quite likeable when she's removed from Jamie or Gary.

 

[Clanstarling]

17 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I can’t stand that old cliche thing where the guy has to threaten to kill the abuser or beat them up.....whatever.  They don’t consider how this kind of behavior frightens the victim.  They are scared the protector will get hurt, get arrested, go to prison, etc.  it also inspires the victim to keep silent about future abuse.  The victim would rather suffer than risk the macho guy from getting hurt or into trouble by attacking someone who harmed them.  

It may be a cliche, but I think this does happen a lot. the urge to fight to protect your loved ones is pretty primal.  Not everyone is able to maintain rationality when their kid/wife/sister/whatever has been harmed, even if they manage to be calm in front of the victim.  It's all of those things you said, but the primal urge often does not let that rationality to come through. My father would absolutely have done that - which is why I never told him anything.

5 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Harvey Weinstein inspired this storyline, I’m guessing. I can totally understand Sophie freezing, in shock, incredulous. “This isn’t happening.” You just can’t believe that someone is behaving this way because it’s too bizarre.

But I raise an eyebrow at her sending the Britney Spears photo. I could see her pretending nothing happened and never addressing it. And then, in the future, as soon as he tried this kind of stunt again, walking away.

Louis CK's story is what came to me.

1 hour ago, marceline said:

I was thinking Louis CK but sadly it could be either and/or a whole lot more.

That is very true. I connect it with Louis CK most because not long before his story broke, I was watching Tig Notaro's One Mississippi. Tig had apparently been a friend, or knew CK - not sure anymore. Anyway there was a scene where Tig's podcast/radio show's producer met with some management guy, who did the same thing while sitting at his desk. I was kind of "whoa, that's random." But then when the stuff about CK came out, and knowing they had a connection, I saw it as a direct shot at him.

Edited April 15, 2021 by Clanstarling

[tennisgurl]

2 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

Sophie’s story was well done but the show is throwing every possible issue at the characters and it is too much.

If this show keeps going, do you think they're going to start running out of issues and have to start repeating? Someone else becomes an alcoholic? Loses a few limbs to up the wheelchair ante? They already did 9/11, maybe flashbacks to the Challenger explosion? Have we had a gun violence episode yet? Its issue Bingo, new ones popping up every single episode. Even when they handle the topics pretty well, like I think they did here, it runs the risk of it becoming ridiculous that so much stuff is happening to the same small group of random people. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by tennisgurl

[Cosmocrush]

2 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

Sophie’s story was well done but the show is throwing every possible issue at the characters and it is too much.

 

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Its issue Bingo, new ones popping up every single episode. Even when they handle the topics pretty well, like I think they did here, it runs the risk of it becoming ridiculous that so much stuff is happening to the same small group of people. 

Yeah, I was thinking this show is becoming "a very special episode" every week.   Suicide, addiction, infidelity, sexual assault, adoption, death of a parent, job loss, abortion, cancer, gay kid, and I'm probably forgetting a few things. 

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

If this show keeps going, do you think they're going to start running out of issues and have to start repeating? Someone else becomes an alcoholic? Loses a few limbs to up the wheelchair ante? They already did 9/11, maybe flashbacks to the Challenger explosion? Have we had a gun violence episode yet? Its issue Bingo, new ones popping up every single episode. Even when they handle the topics pretty well, like I think they did here, it runs the risk of it becoming ridiculous that so much stuff is happening to the same small group of random people. 

Yeah, it's almost like.... a million little things.

Badum bum. 😛

[Winston Wolfe]

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

If this show keeps going, do you think they're going to start running out of issues and have to start repeating? Someone else becomes an alcoholic?

My guess is if Stephanie Szostak doesn't agree to terms, they'll either re-cast her character or kill Delilah off. The latter event will provide at least half a season's worth of additional drama.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Winston Wolfe

[chitowngirl]

Did anyone else notice Gina had a cough and had to excuse herself for water or something? Covid???

[ams1001]

13 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

Did anyone else notice Gina had a cough and had to excuse herself for water or something? Covid???

That was just an excuse to leave the room for a minute.

[sashayshante]

12 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Because she was in shock and didn't want to believe that that was what was happening. She trusted this guy, and believed he held the key to her future plans for a music career. If she believed that what he was doing was wrong/inappropriate, that meant she was naive/stupid/wrong, and all of her plans/dreams were gone. So she refused to believe that he really was doing what he was doing.  They did an excellent job of setting her up to trust this guy. 

I work with abuse survivors. It might be called our fight or flight response but it's actuallly fight, flight, freeze or fawn. Sophie's reaction was extremely common.

[Snazzy Daisy]

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

If this show keeps going, do you think they're going to start running out of issues and have to start repeating? 

Other possible storylines:

- Theo is diagnosed with some kind of terminal illness. Unlike Gary & Maggie who survived cancer, Theo will not make it. Eddie/Katherine marriage falls apart, Katherine needs a new fresh start, moves to Austin after the divorce is filed. Eddie struggles to pay for Charlie’s child support without Katherine’s $$$, reality hits him hard.

- While in France, Delilah involves in a terrible accident, has to undergo several facial reconstructive surgeries, good opportunity for the showrunner to recast. Delilah 2.0 has difficulty to adjust to her new face, new normal, new limitations. This plot itself can create more subplots! And Maggie can be her mental/emotional health doctor!

🤣🤣🤣

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

Did anyone else notice Gina had a cough and had to excuse herself for water or something? Covid???

 

2 hours ago, ams1001 said:

That was just an excuse to leave the room for a minute.

And Gina did that specifically because Maggie told her sotto voce, "YOU NEED A DRINK OF WATER" and tilted her head to the kitchen where Sophie was. Maggie was creating an excuse for Gina to approach Sophie and talk to her about what happened with Peter.

[maggiemae]

Sophie went into the kitchen to get some water and Maggie told Regina in the dining room to get in there as well. Hence Regina's cough.

The worst part of the epi is when Peter told Sophie "I am in control of my instrument and into the zone..."

Sophie is still young and innocent and here was this jerk telling her about being a poster on a boy's wall, a little girl, and a powerful woman.

And btw...her voice is not that great for all this support. IMO.

 

 

[CrystalBlue]

3 hours ago, maggiemae said:

Sophie went into the kitchen to get some water and Maggie told Regina in the dining room to get in there as well. Hence Regina's cough.

The worst part of the epi is when Peter told Sophie "I am in control of my instrument and into the zone..."

Sophie is still young and innocent and here was this jerk telling her about being a poster on a boy's wall, a little girl, and a powerful woman.

And btw...her voice is not that great for all this support. IMO.

 

 

Well, yeah, we're all hand waving and pretending that Sophie is the next Britney Spears or a real musician like Sheryl Crow, right?

Peter is in control of his instrument.  That was really sordid as it turns out.

I feel that Gary drove away only because he saw Peter's wife coming home and realized she's a victim of Bad Peter too and he'd just make things worse all around.

Sad that Sophie had to call her mother in France for guidance while Delilah is ignoring her kids at home.  (Negotiations are at a standstill, no?)

[Brian Cronin]

My wife gave up on this show early in Season 2, but I had heard so much good buzz about this episode that I got her to watch this one (well, I put it on while she was just scrolling on her phone and she let me and then got quickly sucked into the story) and she made the comment, "Wow, it's interesting how good the show can be when they give this strong cast some actual good material." 

Agreed. The cast really is great, overall (well, at least in Theo and Delilah-less episodes), which is why the show is worth sticking through all of the nonsense. Well, I think so, at least. My wife obviously disagrees, but I sucked her back for one week, at least, and maybe she'll stick around for the follow-up even!

[circumvent]

That was a good episode in general. The grooming part was well acted, I don't know how anything about the actress who plays Sophie but she gave a good and convincing performance with the reactions as the assault happened and after.

Even Gary was somewhat under control. Didn't get much of the Rome story, I walked out for a minute and then never saw them again. Don't care either. Also don't care about Eddie getting his ass kicked in rehab because I stopped caring about Eddie. Basically, good main plot without any of the other characters annoying me - and no Theo, which is even better.

[hoodooznoodooz]

On 4/15/2021 at 3:31 PM, marceline said:

I was thinking Louis CK but sadly it could be either and/or a whole lot more.

I just reread some of the articles about Louis CK. Sorry, I didn’t realize before that he was in a position of power with his victims. That’s why I thought of Weinstein first.

So I looked it up on webmd because it’s just so difficult for me to process. Webmd says that these guys do it to surprise, shock or impress. What the what?

[Clanstarling]

22 hours ago, sashayshante said:

I work with abuse survivors. It might be called our fight or flight response but it's actuallly fight, flight, freeze or fawn. Sophie's reaction was extremely common.

I've often said it's flight, fight, or freeze - which is what I tend to do. I've never heard of fawn. What does that mean in this context?

 

[ams1001]

31 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I've often said it's flight, fight, or freeze - which is what I tend to do. I've never heard of fawn. What does that mean in this context?

I hadn't heard of that, either. According to Psychology Today:

"The fawn response involves immediately moving to try to please a person to avoid any conflict. This is often a response developed in childhood trauma, where a parent or a significant authority figure is the abuser. Children go into a fawn-like response to attempt to avoid the abuse, which may be verbal, physical, or sexual, by being a pleaser. In other words, they preemptively attempt to appease the abuser by agreeing, answering what they know the parent wants to hear, or by ignoring their personal feelings and desires and do anything and everything to prevent the abuse."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/addiction-and-recovery/202008/understanding-fight-flight-freeze-and-the-fawn-response

[historylover820]

OK, so when that Dr. Stacy person was fawning over Maggie's podcast, I rolled my eyes. However, like so many of you, I did really like Maggie in this episode. Loved professional Maggie. Loved her handling the situation. Loved her and Gina being able to get the information out of Sophie and her knowing pretty much immediately that Sophie is not okay.

Oh Sophie. For those wondering why Sophie didn't run or do something, I think this is a common reaction. She's 16. She trusts this creep. She believes he holds the key to her dreams. I mean, I started cringing and squirming when he started talking about Britney Spears, considering what we know about her now. But, I'm not 16 and don't believe this creep can help me in my chosen career. But look how many women, even those not 16 years old, who end up getting caught up in perverts like Peter, thinking that they'll be able to further their careers.

And I also found Gary's reaction believable. Gary is a someone who acts first, no matter what. No thinking, charge first, full-steam ahead, damn the consequences. Good thing Rome called and pervert's wife came home.

I'm not sold on Jackie either. I get why people like her and Eddie--although I still love Eddie--needs to be called out on his crap. And this is good advice. For anyone. But if she's so far along that she can give this kind of advice to a fellow patient, why is she in in-patient rehab? 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2 hours ago, historylover820 said:

I'm not sold on Jackie either. I get why people like her and Eddie--although I still love Eddie--needs to be called out on his crap. And this is good advice. For anyone. But if she's so far along that she can give this kind of advice to a fellow patient, why is she in in-patient rehab? 

Just because Jackie is in rehab doesn't mean she's not allowed to share the wisdom of her experience with other people who are in treatment. Many addicts fall off the wagon. It's not because they're stupid. If anything, admitting that you need help and recognizing that you need professional help is smart. Being an addict doesn't take away from all the life experience you have. Someone who's been in recovery can be smart about lots of things, including their addiction (how many times have the rest of us made a bad decision while KNOWING it was a bad decision but we did it anyway?). Sometimes going to a meeting or talking with your sponsor isn't enough. There's no shame in that, and it doesn't negate all of your knowledge.

A lot of what Jackie told Eddie this week wasn't specifically about addiction (although it can be somewhat related). It was about letting go of who you think you're supposed to be and being who you really are. That's valid advice for anyone, not just someone in rehab. Same with what she said last week - he was thinking of himself as the victim instead of focusing on what was best for his kid (again, good advice for everyone, not just addicts).

Just because this advice came from an addict doesn't mean it isn't valid. I think Jackie is just trying to share what she's learned to help someone who she sees struggling. It's similar to when my friend got married a year after I did and was looking for a wedding venue in the same city. I gave her a lot of tips because I had just dealt with many of the same issues. People give advice when they see someone who could benefit from the knowledge they already have. It's like the real life version of "what would you tell the younger version of yourself?" Jackie's struggle isn't exactly the same as Eddie's, but there are some commonalities, and as she said, she sees some of herself in him. She's trying to help him from making all the same mistakes she did (which is something that a therapist wouldn't do so explicitly).

[marceline]

9 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I've often said it's flight, fight, or freeze - which is what I tend to do. I've never heard of fawn. What does that mean in this context?

 

This is my first time hearing about fawn but I recognize how it has played out in my life.

[circumvent]

22 minutes ago, marceline said:

This is my first time hearing about fawn but I recognize how it has played out in my life.

It is also called: fight, flight, freeze, appease.

One uses alliteration, the other uses rhyme. It is very, very common among survivors of all kinds of abuse. Think intellectually/developmentally disabled people in particular who are 10 times more likely to be abused, and how they are usually too afraid, or don't have the expressive resources to report. They will stand by the abuser if their daily lives depends on them.

Edited April 17, 2021 by circumvent