S06.E08: St. Louis Finals

[blackwing]

Very rarely have I hated a man instantly upon sight. I was fortunate to miss the St. Louis prelims so this was my first exposure to "the Adonis". (I've also never really watched this show before this season.)

Let's see, so much to hate. The stupid hair. The menacing cro-magnon glare. The shirtlessness. Him talking so much about how he loves being the guy at the gym that everyone stares at. (I HATE that guy!). His dad talking about putting him on weight training since he was 12.

I was so incredibly happy when he failed. I rewound it so many times.

On the other hand, we have that unassuming father with glasses. Not looking for attention, and just gets the job done efficiently and powerfully.

Edited July 22, 2014 by blackwing

[Lantern7]

I'm okay with "Adonis," mostly because I've seen worse on reality TV. Now . . . watching his cousin "Weatherman" was something else. Sure, the promos spoiled the Rumbling Dice malfunction, but his recovery was remarkable.

 

On the other hand, "MightyMelissa" blew up on the salmon ladder. That's was a pity, wasn't it? She only got one hand on the rung, and she wound up getting wet and eliminated. I guess we can't all be Kacy.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Lantern7

[recurring dream]

 

Sure, the promos spoiled the Rumbling Dice malfunction, but his recovery was remarkable.

 

I really wish the promos hadn't spoiled the Rumbling Dice.  I think it would have made it a lot more exciting if I didn't know it was coming.  Still, it was a very impressive run and I would definitely take the "Weatherman" over the "Adonis" any day.

 

 

[Kromm]

On the other hand, "MightyMelissa" blew up on the salmon ladder. That's was a pity, wasn't it? She only got one hand on the rung, and she wound up getting wet and eliminated. I guess we can't all be Kacy.

Without spoiling myself on ANW themed sites.... I fully expected the other women to crash and burn (we still have one to go--Meagan Martin in Denver).  Why? Because even though the pressure would have been far less than if the world and media in general knew Kacy had done so well, everyone inside the ANW community would have known, and rather than taking pressure OFF the two remaining women, I bet it actually added to it.  I found myself expecting to see Michelle Warnky fall on one of the first five obstacles, in fact, before she even got to the Wall.  So for me she actually did well and exceeded expectations by at least reliably repeating her success (proving that portion was no fluke).  

[Lantern7]

I should really write the names down. Sorry . .  . the hashtag was "MightyMichelle." My bad.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Lantern7

[Lambie]

Kacy's run was absolutely epic and I'm so thrilled a woman conquered a finals course but I don't think she would have made it through St. Louis. The rumbling dice was insurmountable for some of the strongest male athletes. Kacy is what, 90 lbs? She could never have moved 35 lbs of dead weight plus gravity across the obstacle and the done the grip hang obstacle right after. I think she got lucky with the pole obstacle because it was a break for her hands and arms.

I hope Michele gets a wild card to LV. She killed the first half of the course. We have one more woman who made it to finals? Looking forward to seeing her.

[Kromm]

Kacy's run was absolutely epic and I'm so thrilled a woman conquered a finals course but I don't think she would have made it through St. Louis. The rumbling dice was insurmountable for some of the strongest male athletes. Kacy is what, 90 lbs? She could never have moved 35 lbs of dead weight plus gravity across the obstacle and the done the grip hang obstacle right after. I think she got lucky with the pole obstacle because it was a break for her hands and arms.

I hope Michele gets a wild card to LV. She killed the first half of the course. We have one more woman who made it to finals? Looking forward to seeing her.

While that's possibly true, in theory they could build more obstacles that are near impossible for large people and have them part of certain courses as well.  The poles are close to that (although not quite there).  Favoring pure mass does seem like the worst possible approach, then again the Warped Wall favors pure height, doesn't it?

[dmmetler]

I know it would be less interesting for TV,but in many respects I wish they'd have everyone run the same course for the qualifier/finals just so it IS comparing apples-apples. Not just for the women, but for the men, too. It really seems like the qualifying courses simply weren't all focusing on the same things this year, and since the first set of obstacles for the finals IS the qualifying course, that carries to the finals as well.

[blueray]

I guess the only way that it is fair to have different courses is that they are only competing against people who did the same course. So the one a few episodes a go where only a few made it past the last task, I assume most of the people that went on didn't finish the course but got to that obstacle went through.

Edited July 23, 2014 by blueray

[Fukui San]

I'm amazed that the Rumbling Dice went off the rails. I don't think that's ever happened over 10+ seasons of the Japanese show.  I'm also surprised to see that some people were eliminated by it.  It's never an obstacle that eliminates people on the Japanese show, but it's always the first obstacle of Stage 3, there to get people tired. I haven't watched the whole show, just saw a few runs on video.  Was the obstacle built wrong?

 

 

While that's possibly true, in theory they could build more obstacles that are near impossible for large people and have them part of certain courses as well.  The poles are close to that (although not quite there).  Favoring pure mass does seem like the worst possible approach, then again the Warped Wall favors pure height, doesn't it?

When we get to the final Finals, you'll see that Stage 3 is composed entirely of "Hanging off of obstacles by your fingertips" type of obstacles.  That favors smaller competitors. Stage 4 is also always some sort of long climb.  The only people who have ever won the entire thing have been the wiry, not too tall guys, not the big bruisers.

[Kromm]

I'm amazed that the Rumbling Dice went off the rails. I don't think that's ever happened over 10+ seasons of the Japanese show.  I'm also surprised to see that some people were eliminated by it.  It's never an obstacle that eliminates people on the Japanese show, but it's always the first obstacle of Stage 3, there to get people tired. I haven't watched the whole show, just saw a few runs on video.  Was the obstacle built wrong?

 

When we get to the final Finals, you'll see that Stage 3 is composed entirely of "Hanging off of obstacles by your fingertips" type of obstacles.  That favors smaller competitors. Stage 4 is also always some sort of long climb.  The only people who have ever won the entire thing have been the wiry, not too tall guys, not the big bruisers.

That also brings up the fact that if the Rolling Dice has been on the Japanese version, then at least a few 125 pound men have done it, right?  Maybe Kacy C. and her 95-100 or so pounds (just a guess, but what she's got is bound to all be muscle, so I doubt she's less than that) is in a far worse position, but on the upper end there should be taller women who weigh as much as 150-160 pounds (just to use some similar examples, Jennifer Widerstrom, who played "Phoenix" on American Gladiators and is the new Biggest Loser trainer replacing Jillian Michaels was reportedly 5'7" and 153 lbs when she did A.G., and MMA fighter and action movie star Gina Carano, who was also on American Gladiators as "Crush", was reportedly 5'8" and 150 lbs. on the show).

Edited July 23, 2014 by Kromm

[Shimmergloom]

 

So for me she actually did well and exceeded expectations by at least reliably repeating her success (proving that portion was no fluke).

 

Yeah I think she has to get a wild card spot.

 

 

Kacy's run was absolutely epic and I'm so thrilled a woman conquered a finals course but I don't think she would have made it through St. Louis. The rumbling dice was insurmountable for some of the strongest male athletes. Kacy is what, 90 lbs? She could never have moved 35 lbs of dead weight plus gravity across the obstacle and the done the grip hang obstacle right after. I think she got lucky with the pole obstacle because it was a break for her hands and arms.

 

I want to agree with you and I was thinking the same thing.  But then I remembered that there was at least 2-3 obstacles that I thought would be impossible for her last week and she made it through them.  So I can't count her out and say she would not have made it past the rumbling dice. 

 

And looking at the results, more men made it past the rumbling dice and finished the stage this week, then finished the course that Kacy completed last week.

[Kromm]

Yeah I think she has to get a wild card spot.

i think she was getting it the moment she got past the fifth obstacle.  Even getting up the Warped Wall once wasn't the "bar" that would have been set at that point for a few women being tossed into Wildcardland.

[Fukui San]

That also brings up the fact that if the Rolling Dice has been on the Japanese version, then at least a few 125 pound men have done it, right?  Maybe Kacy C. and her 95-100 or so pounds (just a guess, but what she's got is bound to all be muscle, so I doubt she's less than that) is in a far worse position, but on the upper end there should be taller women who weigh as much as 150-160 pounds (just to use some similar examples, Jennifer Widerstrom, who played "Phoenix" on American Gladiators and is the new Biggest Loser trainer replacing Jillian Michaels was reportedly 5'7" and 153 lbs when she did A.G., and MMA fighter and action movie star Gina Carano, who was also on American Gladiators as "Crush", was reportedly 5'8" and 150 lbs. on the show).

One of the great things about Ninja Warrior is watching the cat and mouse between the course designers and the competitors, and the collective intelligence of the contestants. The designers introduce something that kicks almost everyone's ass.  Everyone goes home and builds backyard replicas and practices for a year, and the next year they're all better at it.

 

There's definitely a best technique for the Rumbling Dice that I'm not sure anyone did.  You grab the thing, swing so that you're on the far bar facing backwards, and then reach up and pivot the top down towards you in a curl motion. That way it's all angular force with nothing wasted. People who know that technique did it far more efficiently than if you, say, had one hand on the nearside bar and the other on the top far bar and tried to wrench it that way.  I don't doubt that a lightweight competitor can get through that obstacle with the right technique. I can't think of a single person eliminated from it in the Japanese version, though some struggled to get it to move (with the wrong technique).

[Kromm]

Not that I've seen enough Sasuke to remember that for sure, but even while watching the US version I kept asking myself "why are they all doing that big side to side swinging thing.  It doesn't seem to be the most efficient way."

 

And if I am understanding your description, my own previous thoughts on this, and logic... this video I'm gonna link to seems to be what you mean...  this is from Sasuke. You can see how efficient this guy is... This guy's entire body is turned. He's not sideways in the LEAST.  Okay, if I've mastered this, I think this link will jump right to the part of the video we want (you can't embed once you add the right codes to do this)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSj06LEC9y4#t=28

 

This training video from an American seems to get it HALF right.  He moves his left hand to the lower bar on the side of the die that's the forward direction on the course, and then only AFTER that's done reaches up above it to the upper forward-side bar. His right arm gets some power this way, but it's not really a curl.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Uo5KycRxKI#t=16

 

Now go watch the video of Joe Moravsky doing it completely wrong.  Unlike those guys on the above clips he's making it FAR harder on himself because his left hand stays on the course-backward side of the die (again, it's cued up to go to the right place in the video).  The result of this seems to change the angle of right arm completely to a less efficient one than either of the above, and the only way he's moving the die at all is through brute momentum. Akbar is praising his technique, but in this case I don't think Akbar knows what he's talking about.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6IWgP44ojI#t=106

Edited July 23, 2014 by Kromm

[theatremouse]

I'm pretty sure Akbar just makes it up as he goes along. When someone is not overtly struggling, he praises their technique, no matter what it is. When they are overtly struggling, personally I think he flips a coin between saying they're tired from the previous thing or using bad technique.

[Fukui San]

And if I am understanding your description, my own previous thoughts on this, and logic... this video I'm gonna link to seems to be what you mean...  this is from Sasuke. You can see how efficient this guy is... This guy's entire body is turned. He's not sideways in the LEAST.  Okay, if I've mastered this, I think this link will jump right to the part of the video we want (you can't embed once you add the right codes to do this)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSj06LEC9y4#t=28

 

The one you linked to (Tshingo Yamamoto) wasn't quite the technique I was thinking of, but he obviously blew through the obstacle until the dismount.  The poor guy has a history of doing the difficult part and blowing the easy part. He once tripped off a non-obstacle ramp and fell into the water to DQ himself. 

 

The guys who went after were what I was thinking of, with the palm of the pulling hand facing you rather than outward. But really, the important part is that you're completely on the farthest advanced pipe and have no weight on the backside of the obstacle so that all the force can go toward pivoting the thing. Joe Marovsky's right hand was fighting his left hand with opposing forces.

 

Take a look at this link, with a tournament two years later, when the guys have had a chance to practice this obstacle. Look at Bunpei Shiratori, whose run begins at 4:47. He was a guy famous for making home versions of all the obstacles, so he practiced the hell out of everything. He makes it look incredibly easy, and he's probably almost 40 years old during this tournament.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTn13GR0cNs

[theatremouse]

It's a little mystifying since there are clearly so many youtube videos of Japanese competitors doing this...why the heck haven't any of the Americans done that obstacle that way? They build home courses to practice but don't watch videos?

[Kromm]

Take a look at this link, with a tournament two years later, when the guys have had a chance to practice this obstacle. Look at Bunpei Shiratori, whose run begins at 4:47. He was a guy famous for making home versions of all the obstacles, so he practiced the hell out of everything. He makes it look incredibly easy, and he's probably almost 40 years old during this tournament.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTn13GR0cNs

Yeah, it looks like he barely even has to try to turn that die.

 

 

 

BTW: for future reference, here's the way I found to make a link to a video jumping directly to a time code.  Embed the video (just paste base URL) here and publish the post.  Then play the video on the resulting page.  Then PAUSE the video right at the time you want.  Then press the little button on the embed that says Watch on YouTube.  That opens the video on it's own YouTube page at the same timecode you paused at.  Then copy the URL it rendered in the address bar to do that. Then go back to your post here, edit the post, and replace the original URL with the timecode-specific one.  You lose the embedding, but now the link jumps directly to the time you wanted.