Industry - General Discussion

[Pop Tart]

I thought last night's ep was so powerful and heartbreaking and will likely send all of our main protags careening off in bad directions.

Harper's final scene with her brother? Brutal is the only word I can think of. Certainly we've seen Harper be cold-blooded and competitive when it comes to work, but his deciding a teenage Harper deliberately pushed him and caused his destruction and that she's nothing but a selfish narcissist? Brutal.

Then there's Yasmin finding out her dad was sleeping with the very young (though legal, 🙄) nanny and that perhaps she has a sister? It put a beloved face to all those women she dismissed so casually when her dad told her he lost a lot of his money because of his #metoo behavior.

Both Harper and Yasmin looked so shellshocked in their meeting with Anna. The acting was incredible by both.

And then there's Rob. I do need someone to clarify who is the person who died that he got the lawyer phone call about at the beginning? - I thought it was his dad, but then it's his dad running the bar later, right? I didn't catch it all, will have to watch again a time or two, but just what was the big complication with his dad? Seemed like he had younger sons, so perhaps dad left the family for a new one?

Whatever it was, I was crushed that Rob fell off the wagon so badly. Though it was interesting how much more confident and able to sell he was when high and drunk. He was much like the guy who was his "mentor" from season 1 - a high-functioning addict who did his sales job extremely well when under the influence. That's Rob too, unfortunately (at the moment). 

And then there's the fourth of our main characters, Eric. What Ken Leung did with just those few moments of time he was on screen. Incredible. 

[Chick2Chic]

1 hour ago, Pop Tart said:

I do need someone to clarify who is the person who died that he got the lawyer phone call about at the beginning?

Clement, his mentor from S1. 

[Pop Tart]

22 minutes ago, Chick2Chic said:

Clement, his mentor from S1. 

Aha! That makes sense. And makes it all more heartbreaking. He was so very consciously trying to not become Clement.

[Sheenieb]

I wasn't a fan of this episode. Episodes 3 and 4 had so much momentum that was lost in this one. 

I should rewatch season one because I don't remember Harper's brother being that much of a specter in her life. She thought he was dead last season, but I didn't think it affected her that much. Now she's been trying to find him since s2/ep1, but how did she find out that he was alive and working at a restaurant in Berlin? It felt shoehorned in.

I didn't need any more proof that Yas's father is a lech.

Rob did break my heart, though. He was doing so well. I felt bad for the choir boys who had to smell him during their performance. 

5 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

And then there's the fourth of our main characters, Eric. What Ken Leung did with just those few moments of time he was on screen. Incredible. 

Agreed. Eric is broken. Just going through the boring motions of choosing art for his office and okaying schedule changes. 

[Lassus]

I love this show, but s2 is turning into real emotional torture porn and it's a little tiring. (referencing e5)

[AntFTW]

Episode 5 was… something.

I got no words for this episode. It’s there. I watched it. It was okay.

[overtherainbow]

The brother is interesting and adds another layer to Harper's often toxic personality. Clearly they've both been damaged by their narcissistic mother - but we haven't actually learned anything about their upbringing, other than that he was an athlete who was pushed to his breaking point. Plus that one phone call last season. 

[Marley]

I liked the episode but the brother stuff almost seemed out of nowhere. I almost felt like I was missing something. I know she was looking for him but a big argument after not knowing much about their upbringing or their mother seemed off.

Yaz’s dad is so gross. He even acts kind of weird around Yaz. Watching him just creeps me out.

[Lassus]

I think part of what annoyed me more was the ending.  I guess, sure, the brother thing was very very hard for Harper; but her opening up to Yaz about it prior worked great for her so her just so.... uninventively shutting down and being a dick to the new boy was so BASIC and expected.  It disappointed me as kinda lame writing.  And tossing Eric into the elevator for no reason was just also a bit of an eyeroll.  Having her there with one or the other would have been less telenovela.

I also want to be clear, I really did like the episode a lot, Yaz's awakening, and I don't feel like the brother stuff really came out of nowhere, subjectively, I was perfectly OK with that. 

It's simply that the last five minutes of wholly unimaginative unhappiness for everyone just stuck in my craw.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Lassus

[AntFTW]

10 hours ago, Marley said:

Yaz’s dad is so gross. He even acts kind of weird around Yaz. Watching him just creeps me out.

I think that plays well because it shows the unease in their relationship. It shows the awkwardness and makes us feel awkward.

They don’t have much of a father-daughter bond. It seems like they never really had a bond. Yaz’s dad is awkward. He trying awkwardly to build that relationship but he doesn’t know how. They are essentially estranged and are trying to get to know each other again.

I’m unsure if Yaz is being genuine in wanting to build a relationship with her father. 

[Pop Tart]

4 hours ago, Lassus said:

I also want to be clear, I really did like the episode a lot, Yaz's awakening, and I don't feel like the brother stuff really came out of nowhere, subjectively, I was perfectly OK with that. 

It's simply that the last five minutes of wholly unimaginative unhappiness for everyone just stuck in my craw.

I agree that they've been building to the brother stuff for Harper since last season. It's been clear that her relationship with her brother has been a lodestone (anchor?) for her, even when she thought he might be dead, because of how terrible it sounds like it was with their mother. So I haven't been at all surprised about her determination to re-connect with him at all costs. Unfortunately, the cost was dear.

I also agree they may have been leaning a bit too much into the theme of this young generation morphing into their unhappy mentors. The writing has been so good that I have hope that they will subvert what I'd think of as lazy plotting. Harper turns into Eric, Rob into Clement, and Yas into the guy who abused her is a bit too obvious, so I hope they do otherwise.

2 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

I’m unsure if Yaz is being genuine in wanting to build a relationship with her father. 

I think she's telling herself that she's playing him (as Rob suggested she should do), but in reality there's still that little girl inside of her who wants her dad's love and a good relationship with him. 

[qtpye]

3 hours ago, AntFTW said:

I think that plays well because it shows the unease in their relationship. It shows the awkwardness and makes us feel awkward.

They don’t have much of a father-daughter bond. It seems like they never really had a bond. Yaz’s dad is awkward. He trying awkwardly to build that relationship but he doesn’t know how. They are essentially estranged and are trying to get to know each other again.

I’m unsure if Yaz is being genuine in wanting to build a relationship with her father. 

Yeah, father-daughter relationships are either "Daddy's perfect princess" or "he was never around". 

What if you and your father just do not get along because he is a rich spoiled prick?

It also makes her more sympathetic because otherwise, she is just a rich beautiful white woman who is doing a stressful but prestigious job.

The Berlin apartment was amazing.

Yaz seems to have self-esteem issues that Harper does not and that might stem from the way her father treats women as disposable.  Of course, Harper has other issues...

I was surprised that out of her expensive professional clothes/heels, Yaz almost looks as much of a kid as Harper.

The brother was strange to me. He seems to hate Harper but she was also a child that was victimized by their horrible mother. Also, Harper really seems to need/want him in her life but he does not want anything to do with her.

Edited August 31, 2022 by qtpye

[aghst]

On the outside, Harper, Yaz and Robert are all successful, throwing money around at their old haunts or offering to support her brother.

Robert spoke arrogantly to the young recruit about joining the best, even though he's kind of a peon there, not in a position to offer anything.  Now he has to jump whenever Nicole tells him to and his dick isn't working so he can't pursue better relationships right now, like Venetia, the young first-year who asked him out for a drink.

(It's interesting, Venetia blamed her job at Pierson for driving her back to smoking.  But as we know, Harper, Yaz and Robert have been driven by their jobs to much worse stuff than tobacco)

They all have wounds from their dysfunctional family.  Robert's mother, who pushed him to high achievement, died before he got hired.  Harper is estranged from her mother but sought to be close to her brother, who pushes her away, blames her in part for his inability to live up to their mother's expectations.  And Yaz felt close to Theresa, her old nanny in Berlin but turns out Theresa is one of her father's NDA'd conquests.

And not coincidentally, for all their professional successes, they're all struggling in their personal relationships.

Edited September 1, 2022 by aghst

[Brian Cronin]

Wait, you mean Eric ISN'T going to stay down and will actually make a big comeback? This show has just blown my mind, since I've never watched television before. Or seen a film. Or read a book. Orr watched a play....

[qtpye]

3 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

Wait, you mean Eric ISN'T going to stay down and will actually make a big comeback? This show has just blown my mind, since I've never watched television before. Or seen a film. Or read a book. Orr watched a play....

And of course, that guy wasn't going to stand up "shit in Tupperware dude" and totally undermine the trust that they had built.

Never saw that coming...

[Sheenieb]

Ooh, I want to play.

Let me see a show of hands if you were shocked when Yas slept with her boss. 

On a serious note, the show has to do something with Yas next season. She's already off to a bad start by sleeping with Celeste. PWM does seem like a better fit for her, but she needs to have a Jesse Bloom type of client to give her some professional cred. Like I wrote before, I'm tired of seeing her fuck, snort coke, and be confused. I appreciate spicy scenes as much as the next viewer, but it can't be just that. 

I did appreciate Kenny really apologizing to Yas, though. That was a good scene.

Gus has to be reintegrated into the main story again. It's as if he's on a different show. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Sheenieb

[xaxat]

Harper truly believes her shit don't stink. 

58 minutes ago, Sheenieb said:

Gus has to be reintegrated into the main story again. It's as if he's on a different show. 

They are really fragmenting the cast. In addition to Gus, it looks like Eric and Harper will be one story, Yasmin and Celeste at PWM another. It also sounds like DVD is headed back to New York and the rest of the floor is about to be purged. Is this leading to a season focusing on Eric and Harper if there is a season 3?

What was Kenny's "prank"? I guess I don't watch enough telly.

That was a lot of foresight to make this season about healthcare acquisitions with Amazon and CVS namechecked. Because that's actually what happened this summer. Amazon and CVS both put in bids for the  startup One Medical. Amazon won. Yesterday, CVS acquired Signify Health in an $8 billion dollar deal.

I doubt there was as much drama in those deals.

[Pop Tart]

I don't think we're supposed to be surprised by Eric making a comeback. He's a main character and he's Eric, so I assumed he'd make a play to get back into the mix. I do think it was a nice moment when Eric and Harper once again realize they need each other. 

They have such a complex, interesting dynamic that I'm always here for it and could watch them break apart from each other's orbits and come back together again a dozen times and still find it fascinating. 

1 hour ago, xaxat said:

Harper truly believes her shit don't stink.

I don't see her this way. I see her more as someone who just feels driven to keep pushing, pushing, pushing for fear that she'll end with nothing. She could coast along and be successful in this world, but whatever is in her background has made her compulsive about getting ahead and winning at any cost. I don't think, in her heart of hearts, that she thinks she's worthy of the success. In a lot of ways she's just as insecure as Rob and Yas, she just deals with it by coming out swinging.

She's always in a defensive crouch (mentally) and I think she thinks she has to hit first or risk getting annihilated.

[AntFTW]

7 hours ago, Sheenieb said:

Like I wrote before, I'm tired of seeing her fuck, snort coke, and be confused. I appreciate spicy scenes as much as the next viewer, but it can't be just that. 

SO. AM. I!

What purpose is she serving this show now? She doesn't have much of a story at all.

7 hours ago, Sheenieb said:

I did appreciate Kenny really apologizing to Yas, though. That was a good scene.

I appreciate his effort throughout the season of trying to make amends and his apology in this episode. I like that they made him earn it. They made him work to make amends.

[Brian Cronin]

On 9/6/2022 at 12:00 PM, xaxat said:

What was Kenny's "prank"? I guess I don't watch enough telly.

It was a prank pulled on the first episode of the British version of The Office. He then did a dance like the boss on that show did in another episode. 

[aghst]

Was it Eric who told Harper that if she can lock down Bloom, she can go anywhere with him?

Then she tried to screw over Rishi and Pierson and DVD overheard her?

DVD also had told her that Bloom probably has Harpers at all these other firms.

As the previous episode showed, Harper was driven to succeed, something which broke her brother, who blamed her along with their mother for making life miserable for him.

She was oblivious, telling him she couldn't stand to see him live like this.

Then in this episode, Gus' sister tells him to shape up, he's not going to work like a social worker, making only 17k Pounds, dealing with people like the guy who shit in the tupperware.

Yasmin's co-workers give her a wholly inappropriate gift and her first day, Celeste seduces her.  But somehow, Yasmin seems less than excited to find out that Celeste has an open marriage arrangement, so she didn't just seduce her married boss into committing infidelity.

[Lassus]

On 9/6/2022 at 6:17 PM, AntFTW said:

SO. AM. I!

What purpose is she serving this show now? She doesn't have much of a story at all.

These are all valid complaints.  I feel like if they were spending more time with her family growth, that would be more interesting than whatever dance with her boss that we all knew was going to end up in bed.  I mean, she plays the character incredibly engaging and sexy, but it is getting a little tired.

Which leads me to more whining!

The lack of nuance and ease with Harper's storyline continues to wear on me.  The need for her to be doing/experiencing insane things after insane things  episode after episode is making me care less about her, not more.  I suppose that's the price of entertainment these days, but I just don't think it's needed and I feel like it's hurting the drama.  (wah wah wah, I know, it's a great show, that's why I bitch)

On 9/6/2022 at 10:34 AM, Sheenieb said:

I did appreciate Kenny really apologizing to Yas, though. That was a good scene.

Gus has to be reintegrated into the main story again. It's as if he's on a different show. 

I agree with both of these.  As far as Gus returning, I assume it's the promotion and the healthcare somehow.

[Lassus]

On 9/6/2022 at 1:11 PM, Pop Tart said:

I don't think we're supposed to be surprised by Eric making a comeback. He's a main character and he's Eric, so I assumed he'd make a play to get back into the mix. I do think it was a nice moment when Eric and Harper once again realize they need each other.

I took this the other way.  I assumed his "you lock down Bloom, you write your own ticket and can work anywhere" more as Eric playing her out of revenge, to get her to more supremely fuck herself and end up being able to go nowhere.

[Pop Tart]

8 minutes ago, Lassus said:

I took this the other way.  I assumed his "you lock down Bloom, you write your own ticket and can work anywhere" more as Eric playing her out of revenge, to get her to more supremely fuck herself and end up being able to go nowhere.

You may be right. I think what's so good about Industry is that I could see either scenario as being in play - in fact both at the same time. Using the word "nice" to describe Eric and Harper reconnecting was a misnomer on my part. "Intriguing" might have been better or maybe it's just that 'yes, these two!' feeling I get when they're acting a scene together.

Certainly Eric has reasons to want revenge on Harper, but I would guess that his feelings of anger towards Pierpoint may outweigh them. He's always had a complex reaction to Harper, even when she's taking him down there's an element of pride in how he views her. He wants her to succeed, but he also wants to be the one controlling the success. 

They're a very twisted duo for sure.

[Lassus]

BY THE WAY

WTF was the Kendall Roy mention doing in the scenes for next week?  Is it that the shows are in the same setting, or that the TV show exists in THIS setting?  I suppose it could just be a cute nod and wink toss-off, but if so I wish they hadn't put it in the previews, just spring it on us in the episode.

[Pop Tart]

54 minutes ago, Lassus said:

WTF was the Kendall Roy mention doing in the scenes for next week?  Is it that the shows are in the same setting, or that the TV show exists in THIS setting?  I suppose it could just be a cute nod and wink toss-off, but if so I wish they hadn't put it in the previews, just spring it on us in the episode.

I had to watch the previews twice as I heard the name but didn't catch what it was referencing and I wasn't even sure I'd heard it!

I did laugh at it, but agree that it would have been better for us to get the surprise of it within the episode. Not sure they'll do anything with it other than have it as a thrown-away comment, but I'm currently reading it as, in Industry world, Succession is a fictional show on television. Not that the Roys are real in their universe.

But we'll see. 🤔

[aghst]

1 hour ago, Pop Tart said:

You may be right. I think what's so good about Industry is that I could see either scenario as being in play - in fact both at the same time. Using the word "nice" to describe Eric and Harper reconnecting was a misnomer on my part. "Intriguing" might have been better or maybe it's just that 'yes, these two!' feeling I get when they're acting a scene together.

Certainly Eric has reasons to want revenge on Harper, but I would guess that his feelings of anger towards Pierpoint may outweigh them. He's always had a complex reaction to Harper, even when she's taking him down there's an element of pride in how he views her. He wants her to succeed, but he also wants to be the one controlling the success. 

They're a very twisted duo for sure.

If they both leave Pierpoint or in Harper's case, is forced out, I don't see them getting a chance elsewhere, if another firm asks them why they left Pierpoint.

In that industry, people either get hired away or they create their own firm.

Harper has had success but she's only in her third year.  Only way she gets accepted is if Bloom forgives her and agrees to give business to whichever firm hires her.

If not Bloom than some other big client.

I don't know if Harper's story arc is suppose to be representative of the industry or it's a particular tale of a hyper-competitive and self-destructive character.

I don't doubt that it's very competitive and tough for a young black woman to be accepted in this atmosphere, or that younger associates are hazed and there's all kind of drugs and partying going on to blow off steam.

I don't buy that they're able to do it every night and then show up for work bright and early.

[AntFTW]

Yasmin can fuck off now.

[aghst]

The bravado and braggadocio of Rishi, Eric and Harper especially were ridiculous.

Bloom had ghosted her but she pretended like she had him, not just to these prospective employers but to Eric and Rishi as well.

Yet maybe that's expected in the industry, for veteran traders to come off cocky?

But they must know, investment banks are full of sharks like themselves and them pretending to be interested in their opinions on how they could be more successful is just a front?

The first bank they met, Reichstag, didn't give them an offer, even though their boasting was the most over the top.

Then Yankees, whom Eric thought wanted them.  Well look who turns up but Daria, who lost out in season 1 in the dispute when Harper backed Eric's version of events and she left Pierpoint as a result.

Turns out Daria had been talking to Bloom herself so she knows Harper claiming to own Bloom's business was bullshit.

Daria is also a link to the season 1 plot where some female management tried to change the frat boy culture at Pierson and ultimately failed, especially when Harper didn't back the harassment claims.

Now DVD is dealing with the mess, after finding out Venetia was sexually assaulted by Nicole and that Robert had or has a sexual relationship with Nicole.  His boss Adler just tells him to bury it and DVD has a crisis of conscience, which is odd considering that he himself slept with Harper, who reported to him.

I guess DVD though, wouldn't look the other way once Venetia reported the incident.  Nor would Kenny since he's on the making-amends tour.  But Yazmin doesn't want to hear about him trying to change the culture, as she doesn't accept his amends or his attempts at contrition for the way he treated her in her first year.

Somehow though, Harper has a genius for reading people who could help her survive or advance in the business.  In season 1 she latched onto Eric and in season 2, she went after Bloom and then DVD.

So for all the lies she tells, which easily gets her into trouble, she knows how to exploit the people who could help her, when she flips it around and gets DVD to join the would-be secessionists, since she knows that he has connections to Shogun, the firm whose CPS team was just hired by Yankee, the firm that used Rishi, Eric and Harper to hire the Shogun CPS team.

Also wouldn't be surprised if she's right that Bloom wouldn't be satisfied with Daria's "anodyne" coverage, if Bloom does come back to her for her supposed "edge."

Just as at the end of season 1, when she had to survive RIF, her career in the industry was under existential threat, largely because of her actions, but looks like Harper's going to survive again.

[AntFTW]

8 hours ago, aghst said:

Now DVD is dealing with the mess, after finding out Venetia was sexually assaulted by Nicole and that Robert had or has a sexual relationship with Nicole.  His boss Adler just tells him to bury it and DVD has a crisis of conscience, which is odd considering that he himself slept with Harper, who reported to him.

Apples and oranges. Correct me if I'm misinterpreting you, but it seems that you're saying it's odd that for him to have a "crisis of conscience" about Rob and a client because he's sleeping with Harper, who is his subordinate.

DVD's crisis is specifically about Venetia's sexual assault by a client, the client's pattern of this behavior, and the company's do-nothing response. That is separate from however he feels about Rob and Nicole, or Harper and himself.

[aghst]

1 hour ago, AntFTW said:

Apples and oranges. Correct me if I'm misinterpreting you, but it seems that you're saying it's odd that for him to have a "crisis of conscience" about Rob and a client because he's sleeping with Harper, who is his subordinate.

DVD's crisis is specifically about Venetia's sexual assault by a client, the client's pattern of this behavior, and the company's do-nothing response. That is separate from however he feels about Rob and Nicole, or Harper and himself.

Sure I agree Venetia's case is worse.

However, sleeping with a subordinate is also not observing boundaries.

Part of the problem is that inappropriate behavior with client isn't rare.  These young employees were being put in front of clients from the start, like they were show ponies for them to at least leer at.

We've also seen that some Pierson managers are more likely to overlook sexual impropriety.

Good for DVD for not burying this, as Adler suggested he do.  But he himself doesn't have clean hands.

[AntFTW]

2 hours ago, aghst said:

Sure I agree Venetia's case is worse.

However, sleeping with a subordinate is also not observing boundaries.

Part of the problem is that inappropriate behavior with client isn't rare.  These young employees were being put in front of clients from the start, like they were show ponies for them to at least leer at.

We've also seen that some Pierson managers are more likely to overlook sexual impropriety.

Good for DVD for not burying this, as Adler suggested he do.  But he himself doesn't have clean hands.

Sure, he came to the table with unclean hands but observing boundaries in a general sense was not his topic of conversation with Adler. It was focused on the nonconsensual advances, and the unwanted sexual advances and sexual assault from clients, which his own conduct and Rob's conduct does not fall under.

I'm just drawing that distinction.

Edited September 13, 2022 by AntFTW

[aghst]

Nonconsensual is worse.

But when it comes to superiors and subordinates, is it clearly consensual?

Thing is there are too many cases of nonconsensual assaults being buried by HR and such.

So the fact that DVD decides to make a deal out of it seems unusual, given that Pierson is about catering to clients at almost all costs.

[Lassus]

16 hours ago, aghst said:

Turns out Daria had been talking to Bloom herself so she knows Harper claiming to own Bloom's business was bullshit.

I don't think it's a given she knows this - or anything - about Bloom.  (I mean anything beyond that he was working with Harper, which is common knowledge.)

Gus helping his student he fucked by leaning on connections but not Harper seems a little weak of him.

In general, the overall "everyone is terrible and everything is always stressful and unhappy" vibe of this season is really wearing on me, but I guess that's subjective.  I could barely get through this episode.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Lassus

[Pop Tart]

I'm still trying to figure DVD out. He comes across, when he's on the desk, as a pretty straightforward guy who isn't playing games. 

And yet...his ousting of Eric was lethally cutthroat. He knew from the way that Eric talked to him (when Eric stupidly called him from New York to kind of gloat), that something was up and he immediately went around Eric to make sure he got the boss' ear and then was on that conference call when Eric was making his pitch.

To be clear, I have no issue with Danny making a play. I thought it was pretty badass actually. And oh so cold.

And then there's his upset at what happened to Venetia and finding out that his boss wants to sweep it under the carpet. His being upset at the situation itself makes sense, but his big shock/dismay that Adler brushes it aside as a mosquito? That seemed off to me.

He came to London knowing that they were all going to get the axe - while telling them they had a shot. He was in on the call when Eric got demoted. So he's seen his boss in action. But still he's heartbroken at the reaction to the response to the harassment?

Perhaps that last scene does explain it all? He's upset by what happened to Venetia and moved it up the chain, but when it comes down to it he'll move on with Eric, Harper, Rishi and make sure he gets a managing director position in the bargain. So his moral feelings will only take him so far? 

All of this said - I love that he's so complex. I love that they're all so complex. I've even come to be super interested in Kenny's journey? 

Related to Kenny - though Yas was so wrong to brush aside Venetia's concerns, her read of Kenny was deserved and warranted. He has no leg to stand on in telling her how she should handle harassment. 

[AntFTW]

7 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

I'm still trying to figure DVD out. He comes across, when he's on the desk, as a pretty straightforward guy who isn't playing games. 

And yet...his ousting of Eric was lethally cutthroat. He knew from the way that Eric talked to him (when Eric stupidly called him from New York to kind of gloat), that something was up and he immediately went around Eric to make sure he got the boss' ear and then was on that conference call when Eric was making his pitch.

To be clear, I have no issue with Danny making a play. I thought it was pretty badass actually. And oh so cold.

I didn't consider it cold because Eric was trying to do the same thing but Eric spoke too soon. Eric showed his hand.

7 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

And then there's his upset at what happened to Venetia and finding out that his boss wants to sweep it under the carpet. His being upset at the situation itself makes sense, but his big shock/dismay that Adler brushes it aside as a mosquito? That seemed off to me.

He came to London knowing that they were all going to get the axe - while telling them they had a shot. He was in on the call when Eric got demoted. So he's seen his boss in action. But still he's heartbroken at the reaction to the response to the harassment?

I just... don't understand the link between being cutthroat and not caring about sexual harassment. Just because Adler is cutthroat doesn't mean he wouldn't care. I don't understand how it would be implied that because he's this asshole cutthroat person in business, it should be somewhat expected that he will sweep the sexual harassment under the rug.

DVD is the best example of the opposite. DVD is cutthroat when he has to be. You mentioned a few example of it. He is out for himself. He knew the London desk was going to be absorbed and told no one except Harper (which I think was late notice). He got Eric kicked off the desk. He took advantage of Harper's, Eric's and Rishi's desperation in the revenue-sharing deal at the end of the episode. DVD is pretty savage when necessary, but he cared.

7 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

Perhaps that last scene does explain it all? He's upset by what happened to Venetia and moved it up the chain, but when it comes down to it he'll move on with Eric, Harper, Rishi and make sure he gets a managing director position in the bargain. So his moral feelings will only take him so far?

I don't know if I'm misinterpreting you and maybe I'm about to say the same thing (or maybe not) but what other option is on the table if you try to change the culture and you can't? The reason he considers Harper's proposal is because Pierpoint's morals conflicts with his own, and Pierpoint is unwilling to change. Additionally, considering that he's taking a risk with them, they had to sweeten the pot a little more for him... and again, he sensed their desperation.

7 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

All of this said - I love that he's so complex. I love that they're all so complex. I've even come to be super interested in Kenny's journey?

Same.

7 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

Related to Kenny - though Yas was so wrong to brush aside Venetia's concerns, her read of Kenny was deserved and warranted. He has no leg to stand on in telling her how she should handle harassment. 

I disagree. I get it. Kenny was not the most morally upright person. However, she only threw that in his face because it was convenient in that moment.

Yaz fucked up, and she doesn't want to be told she fucked up. She should be told that she erred in the way she handled that. I don't think Kenny was wrong for telling her that she handled that wrongly, because she did.

Kenny is owning his fuck ups and is trying to do better. On the other hand, Yaz is entitled to get over the fucked up shit Kenny has done to her on her own time, she's not over it yet and she doesn't have to be.

HOWEVER, Kenny had a leg to stand on in that moment because Yaz did fuck up. If Kenny has no moral leg to stand on, Yaz also has no moral leg to stand on for how she handled Venetia's situation.

Edited September 14, 2022 by AntFTW

[Pop Tart]

3 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

I just... don't understand the link between being cutthroat and not caring about sexual harassment. Just because Adler is cutthroat doesn't mean he wouldn't care. I don't understand how it would be implied that because he's this asshole cutthroat business, it should be somewhat expected that he will sweep the sexual harassment under the rug.

I agree he can be cutthroat and still care about what happened to Venetia. What surprised me in the scenario was his shocked reaction to how Adler was responding. DVD has shown himself to be extremely aware of the interpersonal  dynamics and power plays and that awareness has allowed him to be cutthroat.

All of that means he should know exactly how Adler would react to such a thing. He was there when Eric was "promoted" and told that no matter how successful he's been, it's all about the dollars today. Eric stopped producing at the level he had been, he's out. They need to cut spending so London is going to be closed down. 

Given what he knows about how Adler operates (and really the entire company), how can Danny (DVD) not know that a wealthy client is always going to come before a 1st year trader (or whatever Venetia's job is).

8 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

HOWEVER, Kenny had a leg to stand on in that moment because Yaz did fuck up. If Kenny has no moral leg to stand on, Yaz also has no moral leg to stand on for how she handled Venetia's situation.

I'll grant you maybe a foot, not an entire leg. Should Yas/Yaz(?) have been more supportive of Venetia? I said she should have (up thread), but I do mull over whether it really is required of Yas to support Venetia in the way she wanted to be? Venetia went to her for advice/support and perhaps wanted Yas to join her in sisterhood fighting the power.

But Yas didn't do that. She told her what she thought she should do/how she should respond. Was her advice fucked up? Yes. But Yas is not Venetia's superior or even in her chain of command, so did she have a required duty to do anything specific for Venetia beyond that? 

As someone who would/does try to do her best to support other women, I know what my response would be. And Yas's response horrified me. But I also get that each woman gets to make her own personal choice about how she'll engage (or not) with harassing behavior. I think what made Yas's response truly indefensible was her gaslighting Venetia and trying to diminish how Venetia was feeling. 

All of this is to come back round to Kenny berating her. Kenny's abuse of Yas, went on for months and was relentless, so though he may be trying to right wrongs, him coming at Yas about how she responded to Venetia, is messed up to say the least. And while he is in Venetia's chain of command, Yas is not, so even there Yas owes less (from a workplace perspective) to Venetia than he does. 

Imagine having the person who made your work life a misery for a year (or more, depending on when they all went home for the pandemic) yelling at you about your behavior? 

So I think I've talked my way back to not even allowing Kenny a foot. 😉

The beauty of the writing is that these messed up people are pretty much all morally gray and that's what makes them so interesting. 

[AntFTW]

51 minutes ago, Pop Tart said:

Yas/Yaz(?)

Potayto potahto 🤣

53 minutes ago, Pop Tart said:

I agree he can be cutthroat and still care about what happened to Venetia. What surprised me in the scenario was his shocked reaction to how Adler was responding. DVD has shown himself to be extremely aware of the interpersonal  dynamics and power plays and that awareness has allowed him to be cutthroat.

All of that means he should know exactly how Adler would react to such a thing. He was there when Eric was "promoted" and told that no matter how successful he's been, it's all about the dollars today. Eric stopped producing at the level he had been, he's out. They need to cut spending so London is going to be closed down. 

Given what he knows about how Adler operates (and really the entire company), how can Danny (DVD) not know that a wealthy client is always going to come before a 1st year trader (or whatever Venetia's job is).

Ah ok! I understand. I agree then.

DVD should have known Adler well enough to know that Adler wouldn't give a fuck.

Edited September 14, 2022 by AntFTW

[AntFTW]

1 hour ago, Pop Tart said:

I'll grant you maybe a foot, not an entire leg. Should Yas/Yaz(?) have been more supportive of Venetia? I said she should have (up thread), but I do mull over whether it really is required of Yas to support Venetia in the way she wanted to be? Venetia went to her for advice/support and perhaps wanted Yas to join her in sisterhood fighting the power.

I mulled over as well but I also felt like Yasmin extended the invitation to Venetia that if she needs anything, she's just upstairs. I don't know if she was genuine about that and I understand people say that in a polite way not expecting someone to actually take them up on that offer... but Yasmin threw it out there and Venetia caught it.

1 hour ago, Pop Tart said:

So I think I've talked my way back to not even allowing Kenny a foot. 😉

LMAO! This cracked me up.

Edited September 14, 2022 by AntFTW

[AntFTW]

16 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

Imagine having the person who made your work life a misery for a year (or more, depending on when they all went home for the pandemic) yelling at you about your behavior? 

Correct me if I'm wrong but Yaz tried to do the same to Venetia when the opportunity presented itself?

This show has me feeling bad for Kenny. I just like that they aren't making it easy for him because that's how real life would work. Redemption isn't easy and they are making him work hard for it.

Edited September 15, 2022 by AntFTW

[aghst]

I'd tend to believe if the firm had to choose between Nicole and Venetia, they'd pick Nicole all the time.

That may be cynical but Nicole gives them a lot in business.

Venetia may be a rainmaker some day but so far she isn't.

In any event, most of the London CPS are getting cut and only a few are going to NY.

Does that mean FX, which is where Kenny and Venetia are, where Yasmin used to be, will stay in London?

Or that Private Wealth Management -- Celeste, Yasmin -- will also stay in London?

Rishi presumably would have kept his job at London Pierson or once CPS is gone, they don't need a big trader any more?

If there is a season 3, you have Harper, Eric, DVD and Rishi at this Shogun firm, Gus doing his own thing probably moving up with the minister, and they will show Yasmin doing her thing as well.

So maybe Venetia and Kenny will still be around?  Or maybe not.

What happens to Robert, he's getting cut since he is CPS?

Now does Pierson retain Nicole's business through NY CPS?  In that case, the firm is going to choose her over Venetia.

DVD may have tried to do the right thing if he stayed with Pierson.  However, his bosses would have probably told him bury Venetia's accusations, because they still want Nicole as a big client.

So he would have either had to decide to follow orders or leave.  He might have left, if they kept screwing him over by not making him MD.

[AntFTW]

1 hour ago, aghst said:

I'd tend to believe if the firm had to choose between Nicole and Venetia, they'd pick Nicole all the time.

That may be cynical but Nicole gives them a lot in business.

I would assume they would pick Nicole's business over Venetia also.

However, Nicole has only just picked back up with them because she was doing no business with them before. That's why they had Rob reach out to her in the first place. Nicole had stopped doing business with them after Harper stopped covering her.

Nicole seems to want to exchange sex for business. If there is no sex, will there be business?

Now that I think about it, that's probably how they should have presented the Nicole problem to Adler. If no one is fucking Nicole, Nicole is not giving any business. Nicole's way is "no honey, no money."

Edited September 15, 2022 by AntFTW

[aghst]

In season 1 there may not have been a depiction of such an overtly transactional relationship but it was clear they were putting out these young associates, who were all vying to survive FIT at the end of their first year, to please certain clients.

That was kind of surprising, because no matter how attractive, maybe they don't have the experience to deal with some of these demanding clients.

I don't think the show runners were shying away from the implication that this supposedly prestigious firm was kind of turning out their young and beautiful employees for these lecherous clients.

[qtpye]

On 9/13/2022 at 7:13 PM, Lassus said:

Gus helping his student he fucked by leaning on connections but not Harper seems a little weak of him.

I'm so glad that the son of a billionaire got an opportunity he clearly did not deserve in any shape or form. The privileged have it so rough.

Seriously, they need to cut Gus out of the show or do something interesting with him. Every time the episode cut to him it dragged.

[Lassus]

3 hours ago, qtpye said:

Seriously, they need to cut Gus out of the show or do something interesting with him. Every time the episode cut to him it dragged.

Well, just subjectively, I disagree.  I think he's the most interesting character this season.  Everyone else is on a path that - while at least compelling to watch - could have been reasonably predicted from the first episode.  (Maybe DVD excepted, upon reflection.)

Edited September 15, 2022 by Lassus

[qtpye]

58 minutes ago, Lassus said:

Well, just subjectively, I disagree.  I think he's the most interesting character this season.  Everyone else is on a path that - while at least compelling to watch - could have been reasonably predicted from the first episode.  (Maybe DVD excepted, upon reflection.)

Agree to disagree

[Sheenieb]

On 9/14/2022 at 8:41 PM, aghst said:

I don't think the show runners were shying away from the implication that this supposedly prestigious firm was kind of turning out their young and beautiful employees for these lecherous clients.

That's the vibe I picked up on as well. It's a "do whatever is necessary" to keep the client happy type of atmosphere. It's why Yasmin flirted with the Italian businessman at dinner, and when she was rebuffed, Celeste told her that that's not how things work in PWM. 

Didn't a client blow coke up Rob's ass last season? And while she wasn't a client, I could've sworn DVD implied to Rob that he should sleep with the grad they were trying to recruit. Pierpoint pimps out their staff. But since a man's gotta have a code, DVD draws at client shenanigans.  

[AntFTW]

5 hours ago, Sheenieb said:

Didn't a client blow coke up Rob's ass last season?

LMAO! Wow! Now, I really know I don't remember shit from season 1.

...and I loved season 1 but I remember almost nothing.

[Brian Cronin]

I'm not MAD at the ending, but I'm a bit...hmmm...perhaps disappointed is the right term that the show was clearly worried about not being renewed, so had more of a "possible actual ending" than they should have for a show that is otherwise quite strong and should be an easy renewal for Season 3. Annoying HBO Max and its cutbacks. 

[AntFTW]

Episode 8, Season finale... hmmm, what do I think?

Well, it was quite the interesting episode.

Harper and Eric pitch to Adler to merge the CPS desk and the FX desk to create this new synergistic MHFS desk of a strike force efficient elite ninja warriors. With Bloom covered, the operation makes sense but the personnel headcount is too high and DVD and Rishi just didn't make the guest list. Also, apart of the deal, they get to stay in London. There is no NY move for them. Adler gives them the greenlight.

In a stunning turn of events, Eric Tao - playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers - gets back on the floor, gets to stay in London, gets to call the shots, gets rid of DVD, gets rid of Harper and replaces her spot on the desk with Rishi, and therefore, gets rid of the stench of insider trading.

Additionally, since Adler already gave the greenlight, Adler can't look like a guy that made the wrong the decision so there are no take-backsies. This change is already happening and approved. Eric gets some time to show that, even without Bloom, the newly created London-based MHFS desk is worth keeping. Eric will have some time to make it look like creating this desk, and subsequently firing Harper (and letting go of Bloom) wasn't a horrible decision.

In another event of saying too much, Gus gets fired for implying that he leaked the news about the Amazon-Fast Aid probe that was never going to happen. However, it's cool because he has landed a cushier job with Jesse Bloom.

Also on the menu, Harper having sex with Rishi on the night before his wedding. Harper is ruthless. No one is safe. All the guys, except Eric, on Harper's desk were prey and she was just waiting to make the kill: Rob, DVD, and now Rishi.

In other news, Yasmin is cut off. She tells her father that she wants nothing to do with him. She says that while still living in his house and still using his bank account. I'm shocked she still has phone service. Like Rob should have known, if you're going to tell someone off, at least make sure you are completely untethered to them. Open your own bank account. Have somewhere to store your stuff. Maybe put a deposit down and pay rent on a new apartment. Maybe bring in another valuable client for PWM and that you won't be so disposable. Yasmin put the cart before the horse.

...and so did Rob. If you're tell Nicole about herself, wait until you're close to your destination. Come on people!