S01.E03: Drive

[RachelKM]

 

I still say that the reason Carter is acting this way is because she really doesn't believe it's true. IMO, there is still a part of her brain that thinks somebody made a big mistake, & Lori really is her mother. That's why she treats it all like an inconvenience, she doesn't think it's real.

I get what you are saying and I'm sure she's in denial.  But bothers me that the denial is so absolute.  I'm sure she wants/needs to believe this is all a mistake and there is an explanation for everything.  But she had a sensory memory of her grandpa when she hugged him on that first day.  And I'm sure there have been other facts since which have tickled at her memories of both her pre-kidnapping life and weird things Lori said or did during her life that would be hard for her to tamp down continuously.

 

Which is why I would like to see the struggle to maintain denial and private moments of doubt.  Max would be her best outlet for those moments since he knew and liked Lori and would be more sympathetic to her thoughts about Lori.

Edited July 17, 2014 by RachelKM

[bluebonnet]

I get what you are saying and I'm sure she's in denial.  But bothers me that he denial is so absolute.  I'm sure she wants/needs to believe this is all a mistake and there is an explanation for everything.  But she had a sensory memory of her grandpa when she hugged him on that first day.  And I'm sure there have been other facts since which have tickled at her memories of both her pre-kidnapping life and weird things Lori said or did during her life that would be hard for her to tamp down continuously.

 

Which is why I would like to see the struggle to maintain denial and private moments of doubt.  Max would be her best outlet for those moments since he knew and liked Lori and would be more sympathetic to her thoughts about Lori.

I think this is why the pacing has been problematic.  The pacing feels...unbalanced?  I'm not sure if that's how I want to describe it, someone more eloquent than I can properly define it.  She went from eating gummy bears with her bff mama to being stripped of the only identity she's ever known and thrust into this new home with strangers at lightening speed and then everything slowed down.  She's been with the family long enough that, based on the pace they initially set, it seems like she'd reached a point where the real questions would start being asked.  This isn't to say that there is a definitive timeline for how people progress in situations like these, merely that the pacing of their story feels mismatched in some way.  It's like they built the door for them to move into the piece of the plot and then don't allow the character to walk through it.  

Edited July 17, 2014 by bluebonnet

[FAU]

I agree with you that the writing isn't very strong or realistic.  While there's nothing realistic about the way she was reunited with her bio family, what I do find the most realistic, however, is Carter's reaction to this all.  If the show were following something like the Kubler-Ross model, Carter's behavior would be defined as firmly rooted in denial.  A night of fun turned into a complete nightmare of the sort she could have never imagined and her way of coping is to deny that it's even happening, that everything will return to normal once her "mom" figures out a plan.  She's still in that place where this terrible thing couldn't possibly be true, which is how I would expect the average person to react when having their identity ripped from them so abruptly.  

 

 

I still say that the reason Carter is acting this way is because she really doesn't believe it's true. IMO, there is still a part of her brain that thinks somebody made a big mistake, & Lori really is her mother. That's why she treats it all like an inconvenience, she doesn't think it's real.

 

Except there's no sense of struggle at all or any questioning, and the other characters pretty much go along with it without any question like her new friends who are suddenly interested in helping a girl they just met to find her kidnapper mom for some reason.

 

Your posts have put more effort into her character than the writing and even the show itself, I feel like more and more people have to make up excuses for Carter's character when the show itself isn't that deep or complex to begin with in order to try and rationalize what's going on because the writers don't seem interested in that.

 

Honestly, it doesn't even feel like denial, she just doesn't seem to care, she knows about the kidnapping and her bio parents, she just wants to go back to the way things used to be, otherwise she would've rejected everything in her new life instead of just targeting Elizabeth as an evil villain.

Edited July 17, 2014 by FAU

[bluebonnet]

Except there's no sense of struggle at all or any questioning, and the other characters pretty much go along with it without any question like her new friends who are suddenly interested in helping a girl they just met to find her kidnapper mom for some reason.

 

Your posts have put more effort into her character than the writing and even the show itself, I feel like more and more people have to make up excuses for Carter's character when the show itself isn't that deep or complex to begin with in order to try and rationalize what's going on because the writers don't seem interested in that.

 

Honestly, it doesn't even feel like denial, she just doesn't seem to care, she knows about the kidnapping and her bio parents, she just wants to go back to the way things used to be, otherwise she would've rejected everything in her new life instead of just targeting Elizabeth as an evil villain.

I agree.  I think the writing is fairly weak and the complexity is nearly nonexistent.  The pacing in particular, for me, is just terrible.  On the other hand, based on what we've seen and what I can reasonably guess will happen in future episodes, I feel like I get the idea they are trying to convey.  It's not really about making up excuses for Carter's behavior but acknowledging that she has reasonable cause to be in severe denial, to the point where she's not even willing to consider that her new reality truly exists.  She's still pretending as though she's the daughter of Lori and her behavior reflects that.  Carter thinks that Lori was the perfect mother.  Outside perspective tells a different story.  They might have been BFF's, but the truth of the matter is that Lori was a terrible 'parent' evidenced by how she taught Carter to be a selfish, self-centered, asshole delinquent who derives joy in other people's pain.  In short, Carter in denial means that she's the person Lori raised.  If they would figure out their pacing, I think (hope) we will see Carter start to move on from denial and allow these outside perspectives in.  Though, like you, I'm really worried about this group of characters who basically worship her for no reason at all.  Likewise, I'm not feeling too comfortable that the dad is a smarmer disgusting groomer who's 'parenting' style isn't all that much different from Lori's.  These can either be even more roadblocks to advancing the story or they can be tools to advance the story, especially with the group of friends since they are sort of a mirror image of her previous friends.  

[karenc3]

I still say that the reason Carter is acting this way is because she really doesn't believe it's true. IMO, there is still a part of her brain that thinks somebody made a big mistake, & Lori really is her mother. That's why she treats it all like an inconvenience, she doesn't think it's real.

 

 

I agree this is how she feels.  She even keeps saying Elizabeth isn't her mother, and she still calls Lori her mother.  It's a form of denial, but also I don't think this situation was handled properly, with Carter immediately being thrown into a new environment.  What makes it even worse is she sees that Elizabeth is "hunting" her mother.  She doesn't really believe that Elizabeth is her mother and Lori is her kidnapper.  I think this part of the story will not change until Carter gets to talk to Lori and she admits to the kidnapping, and gives her the reason why it happened.

 

 

Also, most teenagers would see a more permissive mother as the perfect mother, because they are happy with the freedom, and don't see any problem with it.  They are not mature enough to see the problems with that kind of parenting.   And a child that was raised like that will not like being in a more restrictive household.  In fact, I know at least one  real life situation where teenager who had a more permissive mother,  but when she had visitation with her father and more restrictive stepmother there was a lot of friction between her and her stepmother when she tried to enforce the rules of their house, though that's a matter of respect.  Anyway, I could see how someone Carter's age would act like she's acting in this situation. Maybe it isn't right but it is understandable, and in the context of the storyline, someone understanding this would be the key to helping Carter accept what has happened.

Edited July 17, 2014 by karenc3

[FAU]

I agree.  I think the writing is fairly weak and the complexity is nearly nonexistent.  The pacing in particular, for me, is just terrible.  On the other hand, based on what we've seen and what I can reasonably guess will happen in future episodes, I feel like I get the idea they are trying to convey.  It's not really about making up excuses for Carter's behavior but acknowledging that she has reasonable cause to be in severe denial, to the point where she's not even willing to consider that her new reality truly exists.  She's still pretending as though she's the daughter of Lori and her behavior reflects that.  Carter thinks that Lori was the perfect mother.  Outside perspective tells a different story.  They might have been BFF's, but the truth of the matter is that Lori was a terrible 'parent' evidenced by how she taught Carter to be a selfish, self-centered, asshole delinquent who derives joy in other people's pain.  In short, Carter in denial means that she's the person Lori raised.  If they would figure out their pacing, I think (hope) we will see Carter start to move on from denial and allow these outside perspectives in.  Though, like you, I'm really worried about this group of characters who basically worship her for no reason at all.  Likewise, I'm not feeling too comfortable that the dad is a smarmer disgusting groomer who's 'parenting' style isn't all that much different from Lori's.  These can either be even more roadblocks to advancing the story or they can be tools to advance the story, especially with the group of friends since they are sort of a mirror image of her previous friends.  

 

I think they should've made a better use of the 2 hour premiere that they had or at least a better transition from the pilot to getting Carter situated into her new life.

 

The groups of friends are pretty much interchangeable, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference if you switched the characters out tbh.

[bluebonnet]

I think they should've made a better use of the 2 hour premiere that they had or at least a better transition from the pilot to getting Carter situated into her new life.

 

The groups of friends are pretty much interchangeable, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference if you switched the characters out tbh.

Lol, yeah I missed a few minutes of the premiere when I went to deal with laundry so I didn't even realize they were different until I read a few posts in the forum.  

 

Despite the major problems with the show, I like it well enough.  Right now, the premise is good enough to keep me interested.  Plus it happens to air on a night when no other shows I enjoy are on.  Sure, I could continue to let my Tuesday nights be tv free, but I like TV more than I like doing laundry which is what I'd otherwise be doing in that time slot.  Though I hope they start ironing out some major kinks soon because Tuesday Laundry day just sucks.   

Edited July 17, 2014 by bluebonnet

[Cranberry]

I don't know if I'd bother with it if it aired in the fall when all of my other shows are on, but right now I only have a few shows airing every week (Pretty Little Liars, Masters of Sex, and Rectify), so I'm in for now. I think that Kat Prescott is great (I always enjoyed her performance on Skins UK) and I'm hoping she'll be given more to work with soon.

[fetching]

This is the weirdest show. I don't think I've ever watched a show before where everyone was so unlikeable from the start. The ony two decent people are the kid brother and twin sister, and the old boyfriend with the long hair has started rubbing off on me. But Carter is awful. She's rude and self absorbed with a massive ego, and only pulls out the tears and sweetness when she needs something. Her cop mom is a humorless bitch. Her dad is slimy. Her kidnapper mom is a kidnapper who raised her to be a snotty selfish brat. I keep watching because I'm waiting to find out why the woman abducted her. It's kind of sad because I think the premise is really interesting and they could have done it justice by actually exploring what it would be like to go home to strangers after all that time apart.

[KaveDweller]

I also find it odd that Carter has not expressed to anyone, even Max whom she would likely view as safer on the subject, any doubts about Lori's actions or upset that she lied to her all her life.  Hell, she even told Elizabeth that her "mom never lied to [her]" without having any sort of followup realization or Elizabeth pointing out that is is empirically untrue.

 

It would also be nice if we saw Carter learning more about the family or what her childhood would have been like if she was raised with them. I would have expected her family to show her pictures of her as a baby or to try and refresh her memory.  Or introduce her to extended family members (something she didn't have growing up).

 

She is definitely in denial about the situation, so that's probably why she isn't questioning Lori yet.  But if she started to think about what was taken from her, I think she might have those questions.

[FAU]

Lol, yeah I missed a few minutes of the premiere when I went to deal with laundry so I didn't even realize they were different until I read a few posts in the forum.  

 

Despite the major problems with the show, I like it well enough.  Right now, the premise is good enough to keep me interested.  Plus it happens to air on a night when no other shows I enjoy are on.  Sure, I could continue to let my Tuesday nights be tv free, but I like TV more than I like doing laundry which is what I'd otherwise be doing in that time slot.  Though I hope they start ironing out some major kinks soon because Tuesday Laundry day just sucks.   

 

Well it was 2 episodes, but it was jarring to watch back to back because of the direction they went from the pilot to episode 2.

 

 

It would also be nice if we saw Carter learning more about the family or what her childhood would have been like if she was raised with them. I would have expected her family to show her pictures of her as a baby or to try and refresh her memory.  Or introduce her to extended family members (something she didn't have growing up).

She is definitely in denial about the situation, so that's probably why she isn't questioning Lori yet.  But if she started to think about what was taken from her, I think she might have those questions.

 

Carter just doesn't seem to care at all, she has some fun with her dad when he lets her get away with things, she made friends but they're just there to help find her mom for some reason.

 

Everyone else in Carter's life is just going along with Carter doing what she does which feels weird because not only is she's not dealing with the situation, it just feels awkward knowing about what happened and then watching the characters react differently.

 

I would've thought that they would show the pictures of her as a baby.

 

I would've thought the grandparents would've stuck around for a while given the situation after the pilot.

Edited July 18, 2014 by FAU

[kat165]

Because this show is on MTV & I'm not really in the age group I think this showed is made for I'm not expecting great things from it. As a loyal viewer of Pretty Little Liars I'm used to the lack of realism in a tv show about teens. I also sat through (I'm embarrassed to say) the entire season of Twisted so compared to that this is looking good. I can see how the show would appeal to teenagers, but not necessarily us more "mature" viewers.

 

I do have a question though: Carter lived with her kidnapper mom in PA somewhere? And where is her bio family living? Did I hear something about West Virginia or did I make that up? I'm just wondering how she was able to drive to that park in the first episode with bio mom's car to visit her old friend Max in such a short amount of time. It's beginning to remind me of how NYC was just in Boston's back yard in Fringe rather than several hours away by car.

[FAU]

 

I also sat through (I'm embarrassed to say) the entire season of Twisted so compared to that this is looking good.

 

Well when you compare almost anything to that disaster, almost anything else would look like an Emmy worthy masterpiece.

 

 

I can see how the show would appeal to teenagers, but not necessarily us more "mature" viewers.

 

I don't expect much but like I said before, it's a complete waste of a good premise and if they just wanted to do just another typical teen drama they should've just done that instead of this, which is what makes it more disappointing.

 

 

As a loyal viewer of Pretty Little Liars I'm used to the lack of realism in a tv show about teens.

 

While I don't expect much realism, the main excuse for this show is that it's supposedly 'realistic' of how Carter is reacting, not asking any questions, the other characters completely going along with whatever she does, etc/

[Universalhunter]

Nevermind.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Universalhunter

[MissMel]

I'm probably too old to be enjoying this show as much as I do. This is the only show I currently watch instead of it just being background noise.

I see Elizabeth as emotionally numb. She spent years fantasizing about getting her little girl, Linden, back. After a while, she just started to shut off. She all but physically left her family to feel alive again and then she gets the call. Her 13 year dream is finally coming true. Until she realizes, it will never become true. Her daughter is not Linden. She's a stranger named Carter now.

Carter has a mother, Lori. She trusts her because she has been there her whole life. Lori loves her. She wants to hear Lori's explanation before she can even listen to anybody else's. Carter is 16 and can't even wrap her head around the reality. Carter seems to know that Elizabeth wants Linden but Linden doesn't exist anymore. So now what? Carter wants her mother, Lori, but Lori doesn't exist either. That's got be a total mind fuck for just about any human being, especially a teenager.

Count me in. My DVR is set. I don't get reality from reality shows so I don't expect it from this. I like the story in a fictional book sense. Of course, I spent my younger years reading VC Andrews and watching all the soaps on ABC. That may be why I enjoy this show so much.

[bluebonnet]

I see Elizabeth as emotionally numb. She spent years fantasizing about getting her little girl, Linden, back. After a while, she just started to shut off. She all but physically left her family to feel alive again and then she gets the call. Her 13 year dream is finally coming true. Until she realizes, it will never become true. Her daughter is not Linden. She's a stranger named Carter now.

I agree and I'm glad you pointed this out.  We haven't spent much time talking about Elizabeth, but I keep seeing people describe her as a "heartless bitch" which is somewhat disturbing to me.  I mean, this woman's kid is kidnapped and she has to deal with that which must have been terrible.  Then her son nearly dies at birth, which was double terrible. I can't really fault Elizabeth for emotionally shutting down because there really is so much a person can take.  I didn't see anything wrong with Elizabeth having Carter followed or with her questioning her friends because, ffs, the FBI should have been doing this.  It's also fairly clear that while Elizabeth is trying to be a parent to Carter, she's also acknowledging that she has to adjust as the rules and expectations she has with her other kids isn't going to work.  So she lets Carter take the car even though that's not something her other daughter would be able to do.  She allows Carters friends to come over and only truly objects because a drug dealer she just arrested was part of the crew.  I don't think Elizabeth is perfect, but she's the one parent who is truly trying to do the right thing.  There is little reason for the audience to feel as though she's this evil bitch just because Carter sees it that way.  

 

The only real failing of Elizabeth is that she had an affair which may have helped blind her to the family finances as well as her husband's growing smarminess.  

[In2You]

I can't speak for anyone else but I'm the prime target audience for this network. I'm under 25 but old enough to have a job and extra spending money. Some people my age are easily taken in by "feisty" characters and love triangles and can overlook bad character development but alot of us can't and that's where so many writers keep failing. This show has gotten its fair share of backlash on social media for Carter's attitude and reactions. 

[FAU]

 

There is little reason for the audience to feel as though she's this evil bitch just because Carter sees it that way.

 

The show may see it that way, but Carter isn't fleshed out as a character and she's stuck doing these stupid things just to get back at Elizabeth and it's just not very sympathetic the way the show is portraying things.

[KaveDweller]

I do have a question though: Carter lived with her kidnapper mom in PA somewhere? And where is her bio family living? Did I hear something about West Virginia or did I make that up? I'm just wondering how she was able to drive to that park in the first episode with bio mom's car to visit her old friend Max in such a short amount of time. It's beginning to remind me of how NYC was just in Boston's back yard in Fringe rather than several hours away by car.

 

They said she had been living 2 hours away from her family the entire time.  So, it's kind of far to just drop by and see her friend, but not really unreasonable to do in a day.

 

She and her mom lived in York, PA, which is in the south east part., so I would guess the family lives in Maryland.  But I don't know if they said.

[kat165]

Fau, hehe, I have to agree with you there re: Twisted!

 

It is a good premise & I agree, they are wasting it. I can see why the other kids are gravitating towards Carter though. She's full of confidence (arrogance?) & that usually attracts interest from other kids.

 

Thanks, KaveDweller, for the answer on where they live. This has been bothering me more than the characters. :)

[FAU]

Fau, hehe, I have to agree with you there re: Twisted!

 

It is a good premise & I agree, they are wasting it. I can see why the other kids are gravitating towards Carter though. She's full of confidence (arrogance?) & that usually attracts interest from other kids.

 

Thanks, KaveDweller, for the answer on where they live. This has been bothering me more than the characters. :)

 

I can see why they'd be interested in the kidnapped girl, but I'm not sure why they're so willing to help find her kidnapper mom especially since they only just met Carter recently.

 

It just seems strange that Carter barely seems affected by her actual kidnapping, but everyone else going along with it as if it's no big deal.

[Gwen-Stacys]

Except we're not getting her perspective on her own kidnapping, in fact, she ends up having a 1 track mind instead of actually dealing with the issues that it presents.  She treats it like a minor inconvenience like she's stuck in some summer camp and wants to go home when it's much more complicated than that.

 

She has packed, but she hasn't tried to leave yet at all, instead she just whines and then constantly tries to get back at Elizabeth.

 

I don't think she's really wanting to go there yet and that's actually very realistic to me. At her age, she doesn't have the capability to think like that. We can all claim till we're blue in the face how we would act if we were in her situation at her age, but then I'd like to point out that age old saying that you don't know how strong the storm is until you have lived through it. People react to loss (in Carter's case, this is a loss) in many different ways. Right now Carter is angry and dishing out blame, Elizabeth is the easy target to her anger and blame because she's there and Carter's relationship with her is nowhere near perfect which is as much Elizabeth's fault as it is Carter's. But Carter made a really good point that Elizabeth didn't even try. We see the dad making an effort (his ulterior motives non-withstanding because Carter doesn't know about them like we do.) but Elizabeth not so much. 

 

I coach teens and kids alike, and their coping capabilities when faced with things in their lives being upended (and I'm only talking divorce or finding out one of their parents cheated on the other. A parent going to jail...) are nowhere near where we'd all assume they would be.They're also not 100% capable of seeing things outside of their perspective (which is why they're not an age group known for the empathetic capabilities. Books garnered toward their demographic have very almost self-insert esque main characters.).Just keep that in mind when judging Carter. Teenagers are very dramatic and feel things at a deeper level than an adult might.

[FAU]

I don't think she's really wanting to go there yet and that's actually very realistic to me. At her age, she doesn't have the capability to think like that. We can all claim till we're blue in the face how we would act if we were in her situation at her age, but then I'd like to point out that age old saying that you don't know how strong the storm is until you have lived through it. People react to loss (in Carter's case, this is a loss) in many different ways. Right now Carter is angry and dishing out blame, Elizabeth is the easy target to her anger and blame because she's there and Carter's relationship with her is nowhere near perfect which is as much Elizabeth's fault as it is Carter's. But Carter made a really good point that Elizabeth didn't even try. We see the dad making an effort (his ulterior motives non-withstanding because Carter doesn't know about them like we do.) but Elizabeth not so much. 

 

I coach teens and kids alike, and their coping capabilities when faced with things in their lives being upended (and I'm only talking divorce or finding out one of their parents cheated on the other. A parent going to jail...) are nowhere near where we'd all assume they would be.They're also not 100% capable of seeing things outside of their perspective (which is why they're not an age group known for the empathetic capabilities. Books garnered toward their demographic have very almost self-insert esque main characters.).Just keep that in mind when judging Carter. Teenagers are very dramatic and feel things at a deeper level than an adult might.

 

Even so, the show isn't portraying any of this in the series itself, your post have put forth much more effort with your character analysis than the writers themselves have.  All we've seen is them putting the characters into the drama without much build up at all and contriving drama like making Elizabeth the cop in charge of the case or Carter going against her with every teen rebel cliches imagineable.

 

We don't see Carter in denial or other characters reacting to it, everyone is going along with her reactions (or in this case, non reaction).

 

I'll keep that in mind, but each excuse only reveals more flaws with the writing and execution of this series especially in regards to characterizations.

Edited July 20, 2014 by FAU

[Gwen-Stacys]

Even so, the show isn't portraying any of this in the series itself, your post have put forth much more effort with your character analysis than the writers themselves have.  All we've seen is them putting the characters into the drama without much build up at all and contriving drama like making Elizabeth the cop in charge of the case or Carter going against her with every teen rebel cliches imagineable.

 

We don't see Carter in denial or other characters reacting to it, everyone is going along with her reactions (or in this case, non reaction).

 

I'll keep that in mind, but each excuse only reveals more flaws with the writing and execution of this series especially in regards to characterizations.

I honestly didn't put much effort into it. I took tv production classes in high school and had a media studies minor in college. I was always taught to watch things and interpret them. Film and television is art, which is why people have varying opinions on it. I can look at something and take it for what it is. I know that this is a show that is on MTV, so it's probably going to have some issues. Baring that, nothing that I've explained (outside of me adding in my coaching experience) was anything I didn't see in the show. That's why I try to give examples from the show when I state my opinions.

 

Carter has said that her birth mother doesn't try to make a connection to her, so why should she? Her birth father has made effort, shown by scenes in the show, one being that she felt safe enough to call him when she'd screwed up and gotten herself in trouble, and from things Carter has said. Carter always felt loved and cherished by her kidnapper, which is why she feels loyalty to her, as told by Carter in the show. Taking all of that into account, I just said that I can see why Carter, as a 16-year-old girl, acts the way that she does. She's acting out. It happens. Teenagers are notoriously difficult.  /shrugs

[bluebonnet]

 

 

We don't see Carter in denial or other characters reacting to it, everyone is going along with her reactions (or in this case, non reaction).

 

So far, the only thing we've seen is Carter in denial.  She's not reacting at all to what Lori did to her.  She's not questioning it.  She's trying to get back to Lori.  She's recreated her new life so that it matches up to her old life as much as possible.  Lori's hope of reuniting with the girl she kidnapped was never better when Carter was in denial.  At the end of Drive, we are given hints that she's about to take a step forward evidenced by her choosing to remove herself from a situation that would land her in trouble with the law and also calling her father for help.  The step forward may not be pretty if the show is using the Kubler-Ross model to tell the story of how Carter and her family deal with her return.  Though it's possible that intense anger may be directed at Lori rather than continuing to be directed towards her bio family.  I think, at the least, we'll see Carter truly starting to question Lori's actions. 

[In2You]

Saying teens are notoriously difficult is not a good enough excuse for Carter's actions. Its also not completely true either.It depends on where the teen was raised, how the teen was raised,etc. Carter is also not your normal teen. Most teens don't find out their entire life as they know it is a lie. And Carter's rebellious teen shtick doesn't work in this situation. And so far from what we've seen Elizabeth has put forth more of an effort to try and reach out to Carter than vise versa.  For me to believe that Carter is simply in denial they need to actually address the situation which isn't happening. Her insta friends don't try to and make her see the other side of the situation, her siblings have only minimally touched upon it, and her parents really haven't either. We have yet to see this family sit down and have an actual conversation where they can both discuss their perspectives.

[FAU]

So far, the only thing we've seen is Carter in denial.  She's not reacting at all to what Lori did to her.  She's not questioning it.  She's trying to get back to Lori.  She's recreated her new life so that it matches up to her old life as much as possible.  Lori's hope of reuniting with the girl she kidnapped was never better when Carter was in denial.  At the end of Drive, we are given hints that she's about to take a step forward evidenced by her choosing to remove herself from a situation that would land her in trouble with the law and also calling her father for help.  The step forward may not be pretty if the show is using the Kubler-Ross model to tell the story of how Carter and her family deal with her return.  Though it's possible that intense anger may be directed at Lori rather than continuing to be directed towards her bio family.  I think, at the least, we'll see Carter truly starting to question Lori's actions. 

 

But we're not seeing denial, which is why people here have to make up analysis just to try and make sense of the characters and the writing.

 

We see Carter not caring about anything and walking over anyone that tries and get in her way especially with Elizabeth for cheap drama, we see other characters not caring and just following what Carter is doing even though they know about the kidnapping and they only just met Carter.

 

 

I honestly didn't put much effort into it. I took tv production classes in high school and had a media studies minor in college. I was always taught to watch things and interpret them. Film and television is art, which is why people have varying opinions on it. I can look at something and take it for what it is. I know that this is a show that is on MTV, so it's probably going to have some issues. Baring that, nothing that I've explained (outside of me adding in my coaching experience) was anything I didn't see in the show. That's why I try to give examples from the show when I state my opinions.

 

Carter has said that her birth mother doesn't try to make a connection to her, so why should she? Her birth father has made effort, shown by scenes in the show, one being that she felt safe enough to call him when she'd screwed up and gotten herself in trouble, and from things Carter has said. Carter always felt loved and cherished by her kidnapper, which is why she feels loyalty to her, as told by Carter in the show. Taking all of that into account, I just said that I can see why Carter, as a 16-year-old girl, acts the way that she does. She's acting out. It happens. Teenagers are notoriously difficult.  /shrugs

 

Yes you did, you just made another long essay trying to make sense of her character and the writing.

 

As for the people trying to come up with excuses (typical teens, denial, etc.).  You shouldn't have to try this hard to try and justify everything about this show, this series should be able to portray that properly and the execution just isn't there.

 

Seriously, it's just a teen drama that squanders its premise and is poorly conceived with how they're telling their story and establishing their characters.

Edited July 21, 2014 by FAU

[bluebonnet]

I don't disagree that this is poorly written.  But it really is not putting in any effort to point out that Carter is behaving like someone in denial.  That's all we've seen of her save for the last few minutes of this episode.  She refuses to acknowledge the reality of the kidnapping and has even told Elizabeth that she's the abductor.  She recreated her original friend group and surrounded herself with a bunch of sheep.  She's had a bag prepared as though the current reality is truly the fake one that she will eventually escape.  She ignores the feelings she had when she hugged the grandfather and the connection she feels with her sister.  She's treating her bio family as though they are the monsters in all this.  She's refusing to attend therapy sessions and only does so in order to cause further hurt.  She's not questioning what Lori did and is still actively seeking her out.  This seems a rather textbook case for denial.  She begins to pause on this denial when she makes the decision not to act as though she's still the daughter of Lori.  The daughter of Lori is selfish and doesn't care about committing a crime.  Getting out of that car and calling her dad is showing us that she's slowly starting to acknowledge reality.  

[In2You]

How is getting out of a car with a car thief choosing to not act like the daughter of Lori? That arrest in the pilot was the first time she's ever been arrested. So its not like we can say she frequently commits crimes. Sneaking out to hang out with friends isn't exactly a crime which is essentially what she did with her friends. The only problem is they were tresspassing. That's not the same as fleeing from the police in a stolen car. 

[Cranberry]

But we're not seeing denial, which is why people here have to make up analysis just to try and make sense of the characters and the writing.

 

What should denial look like?

[FAU]

What should denial look like?

 

Other people actually calling it out on her and her actually refusing to listen to reason instead of going along with whatever she wants.

I don't disagree that this is poorly written.  But it really is not putting in any effort to point out that Carter is behaving like someone in denial.  That's all we've seen of her save for the last few minutes of this episode.  She refuses to acknowledge the reality of the kidnapping and has even told Elizabeth that she's the abductor.  She recreated her original friend group and surrounded herself with a bunch of sheep.  She's had a bag prepared as though the current reality is truly the fake one that she will eventually escape.  She ignores the feelings she had when she hugged the grandfather and the connection she feels with her sister.  She's treating her bio family as though they are the monsters in all this.  She's refusing to attend therapy sessions and only does so in order to cause further hurt.  She's not questioning what Lori did and is still actively seeking her out.  This seems a rather textbook case for denial.  She begins to pause on this denial when she makes the decision not to act as though she's still the daughter of Lori.  The daughter of Lori is selfish and doesn't care about committing a crime.  Getting out of that car and calling her dad is showing us that she's slowly starting to acknowledge reality.  

 

 

Except that's not denial, that's her not caring about it it because she wants Lori back and not Elizabeth getting in the way of that with new rules so she can continue being a rebel.

 

Getting out of a car was just to avoid getting caught in a crime NOT denial, she didn't learn anything and the dad only helped her for his own selfish motivations.  She went from 1 problem to another only this time she didn't get caught, she got away with it so that's not learning anything.

 

She's not acknowledging anything because she doesn't care at all.

 

Making friends is NOT being in denial, she's just making friends and you have to try and make it sound like she's some sort of master manipulator and she's just a rebel teen who wants everything to go her way.  XD.  The friends are sheep because the writers are struggling to actually write characters instead of trite cliches and plot devices to move things along.

 

Seriously, you're making essays trying to analyze this series as if it's some deep Emmy worthy show when it's clearly not.

 

Even if they try to change her character, it still has to be believeable enough to execute that and these writers can't seem to pull that off given the way things are turning out.

Edited July 21, 2014 by FAU

[bluebonnet]

Other people actually calling it out on her and her actually refusing to listen to reason instead of going along with whatever she wants.

 

 

Except that's not denial, that's her not caring about it it because she wants Lori back and not Elizabeth getting in the way of that with new rules so she can continue being a rebel.

 

Getting out of a car was just to avoid getting caught in a crime NOT denial, she didn't learn anything and the dad only helped her for his own selfish motivations.  She went from 1 problem to another only this time she didn't get caught, she got away with it so that's not learning anything.

 

She's not acknowledging anything because she doesn't care at all.

 

Making friends is NOT being in denial, she's just making friends and you have to try and make it sound like she's some sort of master manipulator and she's just a rebel teen who wants everything to go her way.  XD.  The friends are sheep because the writers are struggling to actually write characters instead of trite cliches and plot devices to move things along.

 

Seriously, you're making essays trying to analyze this series as if it's some deep Emmy worthy show when it's clearly not.

 

Even if they try to change her character, it still has to be believeable enough to execute that and these writers can't seem to pull that off given the way things are turning out.

First, there is no need for you to be rude.  It's getting tiresome and I don't understand why you find it necessary. I'm making "essays" (which is actually no more than a paragraph, but whatever) because you have repeatedly implied that you do not understand what denial is.  I have taken the time out to list Carter's behaviors that indicate denial.  These aren't deep posts by any means.  

 

Second, please actually read the posts you are responding to because I did not say what you think I said.  I have never once implied taht this is some Emmy worth show.  In fact, just the opposite.  You'll notice that I have repeatedly stated this is poor writing which is the exact opposite of suggesting award winning material.  These "deep" posts are actually quite superficial.  The denial isn't subtle whatsoever.  It's right there, in our face.  

 

I intend to keep watching this show and I really like discussing it and hearing other people's opinions, even if (especially if) it's in disagreement with my own.  I've just reached my limit with engaging with such hositility.  I do hope you find a different Tuesday show that doesn't make you feel so angry.  

[FAU]

First, there is no need for you to be rude.  It's getting tiresome and I don't understand why you find it necessary. I'm making "essays" (which is actually no more than a paragraph, but whatever) because you have repeatedly implied that you do not understand what denial is.  I have taken the time out to list Carter's behaviors that indicate denial.  These aren't deep posts by any means.  

 

Second, please actually read the posts you are responding to because I did not say what you think I said.  I have never once implied taht this is some Emmy worth show.  In fact, just the opposite.  You'll notice that I have repeatedly stated this is poor writing which is the exact opposite of suggesting award winning material.  These "deep" posts are actually quite superficial.  The denial isn't subtle whatsoever.  It's right there, in our face.  

 

I intend to keep watching this show and I really like discussing it and hearing other people's opinions, even if (especially if) it's in disagreement with my own.  I've just reached my limit with engaging with such hositility.  I do hope you find a different Tuesday show that doesn't make you feel so angry.  

 

This is a discussion, albeit heated.  A denial would require an actual rejection, but the problem is the other characters aren't calling her out on it and are going along with whatever she's doing hence why the denial doesn't work if that's what the writers' intention it's a complete failure because it's not portrayed correctly.  You're just trying to psycho analyze a poorly written/executed character rife full of cliches of a teen rebel.  I do expect her character to 'change', it's the believeablility that's the problem because the writers seem more intent on throwing contrived drama on the characters instead of actually establishing the characters properly.  I suggest you to actually read the posts instead of making up excuses and repeating them over and over: denial, typical teen, etc.

[Gwen-Stacys]

Yes you did, you just made another long essay trying to make sense of her character and the writing.

 

Actually I didn't. I wrote what I thought. I didn't realize actual thinking implied effort, but...okay. You got me. I tried.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Gwen-Stacys

[Cranberry]

FAU, you can disagree with someone without telling them that their opinion is wrong and yours is right, without informing them of what they're supposedly doing, and without telling them what to do. There's no need for this discussion to get "heated."

[maraleia]

Let's take some time and cool off in here. Maybe everyone can go and post in other forums for a little while especially since a new episode won't air for two days. Thanks everyone!

[Shermie]

Carter has a major case of Stockholm Syndrome.

 

Actually, she doesn't. Stockholm Syndrome is "a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending and identifying with them."

This happens when the victim knows they are kidnapped, during their captivity.

 

Carter just loves the woman who raised her, the only mother she has ever known. While the show has a thousand writing flaws, this aspect is realistic. Imagine if you found out your mother was not your mother; wouldn't you feel the same way about her, in spite of that fact?

[grandemocha]

Imagine if you found out your mother was not your mother; wouldn't you feel the same way about her, in spite of that fact?

 

No, I wouldn't feel exactly the same. I'd go through several stages as far as my emotions. First, probably outright denial and demand to see proof. Second, trying to find any excuse or justification. Third, probably alot of anger crossed with sadness. Somewhere in all of that, I'd probably start questioning my whole life and trying to piece things together.

[RachelKM]

No, I wouldn't feel exactly the same. I'd go through several stages as far as my emotions. First, probably outright denial and demand to see proof. Second, trying to find any excuse or justification. Third, probably alot of anger crossed with sadness. Somewhere in all of that, I'd probably start questioning my whole life and trying to piece things together.

This.  Short of actual psychosis, we are not good enough at denial to 100% convince ourselves, at least not for long. However staunchly Carter holds on to the life she had before and her feelings and beliefs regarding her KidnapperMom, some part of her would be unable to avoid dissonant thoughts.  

 

However much she wants to pretend it's not true that her mother kidnapped her and that her entire life was a lie spun by that mother, she remembered her grandfather upon hugging him.  That is a fact that does not fit with the tale she's holding on to. Not to mention the finger prints, that her biological family all remember her and have evidence of the kidnapping.  Those are all things that she would have trouble shutting out completely even if she had no further sense memories of her life before the kidnapping.  And because it would be hard to shut out, we should be able to see some of the conflict.  

 

But so far it's like she's been told her mother is wanted for some unrelated crime and is on the run and these people she's been landed with are just a foster family she has to endure until her mother is exonerated. 

Edited July 22, 2014 by RachelKM

[candall]

Imagine your own mother's alive, but you can't reach her for some reason. (She lost her cell phone again.)

A stranger shows up at your door and starts telling you your mother has a double identity and she's been engaged in criminal activity for decades.  He has proof!

At what point do you say:
"Okay, I believe you and I don't feel the need to double check that information with her in person.  She's lost her cell phone but here's her address for the arrest warrant."

 

Answer:  you would never say that.

 

.

[FAU]

Imagine your own mother's alive, but you can't reach her for some reason. (She lost her cell phone again.)

A stranger shows up at your door and starts telling you your mother has a double identity and she's been engaged in criminal activity for decades.  He has proof!

At what point do you say:

"Okay, I believe you and I don't feel the need to double check that information with her in person.  She's lost her cell phone but here's her address for the arrest warrant."

 

Answer:  you would never say that.

 

.

 

But you would actually question what's going on and would want to know what happened.  It's in human nature to know to be curious and it's strange that she never is.

[In2You]

Imagine your own mother's alive, but you can't reach her for some reason. (She lost her cell phone again.)

A stranger shows up at your door and starts telling you your mother has a double identity and she's been engaged in criminal activity for decades.  He has proof!

At what point do you say:

"Okay, I believe you and I don't feel the need to double check that information with her in person.  She's lost her cell phone but here's her address for the arrest warrant."

 

Answer:  you would never say that.

 

.

How is that comparable to this situation? Lori fled! Carter should have at least been upset that her "mother" fled and was going to leave her in jail.Carter didn't even stop and question anything. She just straight up acted like there was no proof.

Edited July 23, 2014 by In2You

[FAU]

How is that comparable to this situation? Lori fled! Carter should have at least been upset that her "mother" fled and was going to leave her in jail.Carter didn't even stop and question anything. She just straight up acted like there was no proof.

 

Expecially when she just learned her life was a lie and her kidnapper mom just ran away and Carter barely even cared about it.

[Cranberry]

How is that comparable to this situation? Lori fled! Carter should have at least been upset that her "mother" fled and was going to leave her in jail.Carter didn't even stop and question anything. She just straight up acted like there was no proof.

 

Carter understood that her mother ran so that the cops wouldn't get her. Carter said in one of the episodes that she doesn't trust cops, and we know that she loves her mom more than anyone, so in her mind the mean old cops are hunting her mom, and she just has to wait until Lori can get set up so they can reunite.

 

I agree that we should have seen more questioning by now, though. A decent amount of time has passed in the show-verse by this point. Even if Carter is refusing to let herself accept the facts about her kidnapping or place any blame on Lori, you'd think she'd at least be curious about what her family thinks went down.

[grandemocha]

 

Carter said in one of the episodes that she doesn't trust cops, and we know that she loves her mom more than anyone, so in her mind the mean old cops are hunting her mom, and she just has to wait until Lori can get set up so they can reunite.

How have cops proven themselves to be untrustworthy though? Is this something cuckoo Mom ingrained in her at a young age? That she shouldn't like the police? 

 

 

How is that comparable to this situation?

Yeah, exactly. That situation that the other poster presented is not at all even close to what Carter is dealing with right now. There's no equal comparison there.

[Aliasscape]

How have cops proven themselves to be untrustworthy though? Is this something cuckoo Mom ingrained in her at a young age? That she shouldn't like the police? 

 

Yes, I honestly think she did. She told young Carter to go find gummi bears if she ever got lost. Not a police officer.