Book to Show: Compare and Contrast

[Humbugged]

6 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I'm totally impressed at the discussion here. When I first read the books, there was no internet (!) and no one else read them. Once I got my friends into the books, they all loved them, but I had to wait for them to catch up. 

I'm on E3 now. I totally don't remember anything about Ny escaping the Trollocs. You're not going to find me saying much bad about here at all thought. tbh, besides Rand, I think she's the greatest of the Third Age. 

I'm continuing to like this version of Lan. He talks! As much as I liked the guy, the 'stone faced' and 'flat glares' were a bit much. Also great fun with him and Ny fighting. They haven't done much with the warder's cloak yet. 

We haven't seen much  of the physics of channeling, and things have been happening so fast, that's fair. I would like to see how they do it on the show. 

They're making the world of dreams quite creepy too. 

I know it was supposed to be scary, but I'm laughing at the wolves chasing Perrin and Egwene. They're like, 'hey dude wait!' We're helping!!'

Wow, not what Thom looked liked in my head at all. Didn't he have a huge handlebar moustache? Didn't Rand meet Min at the tavern? Is she being held off for now because she doesn't do much for a while?

It's "EYE-eel"?!! I can't pronounce anything. I guess I got Tear right. It's going to be fun when we get to Illian the way they talk. 

You do be scared to listen to the Illianer's accents ???

There are no warder cloaks in the series same there are no ageless Aes Sedai faces when they realized how much in would cost them in CGI money

And Min and Loial  turn up when they get to Tar Valon ,as the 4 Trakand's and Camelyn do not turn up this year but Elayne has been cast along with Meera Syal as Verin

[Danny Franks]

18 minutes ago, Humbugged said:

You do be scared to listen to the Illianer's accents ???

There are no warder cloaks in the series same there are no ageless Aes Sedai faces when they realized how much in would cost them in CGI money

And Min and Loial  turn up when they get to Tar Valon ,as the 4 Trakand's and Camelyn do not turn up this year but Elayne has been cast along with Meera Syal as Verin

The actress they've cast for Elayne is as close to perfect as I could want. She just has that wholesome beauty that Elayne is described as having, and looks like the sort of girl who inspires the petty jealousies that Egwene and Nynaeve both feel around her from time to time.

I'm not convinced about the actress they've got playing Min, but she's my least favourite of the main female characters, so I honestly don't care too much.

Meera Syal as Verin should be wonderful.

[DoctorAtomic]

38 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

For example, Moiraine telling them that one of them is the Dragon Reborn means it will be harder to have Rand doubt his destiny in season two, and believe that Moiraine is setting him up to be a False Dragon.

No, but Rand can still harbor some doubt as to Moraine's intentions. She can't really teach him to channel, and she wants Rand to be the Dragon she thinks he should be. She can't help but be manipulative, but they all are. Rand certainly is going to feel being pulled in a lot of directions. Plus, he's got the voices in his head, and Ish running around yelling at him. 

Rand can still be kind of doubtful. They're showing Logain, and there's enough of the historical record to show that so-called Dragons pop up when there is strife. Moraine could be sincerely wrong too. 

[DearEvette]

34 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I'm totally impressed at the discussion here. When I first read the books, there was no internet (!) and no one else read them. Once I got my friends into the books, they all loved them, but I had to wait for them to catch up.

Oh, man, back in the day circa 1994-ish there was the Usenet. And there was a pretty cracked out WOT forum that I was a part of -- rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan.   We had an FAQ that was a thing of organizational beauty sourced and created by piles and piles of postings on the forum.  I found a copy in my basement recently.  It is something like 85 pages printed (I had it in a binder) with headings and sub-headings, sections and subsections, meticulously organized and each Q & A references the specific book, page and relevant passage or quote .  It was basically a nascent wiki. 

[SueB]

16 hours ago, areca said:

The diversity casting is really bothering me in the way it's being used. The books went very far out of their way to give so many different regions rich, deep, cultures. From customs, to politics, to physical characteristics, to food, to fashion, to music. 

I think customs, politics, fashion and music ARE region specific.  The only diversity is the physical characteristics. I think the ‘Breaking of the World’ uprooted people everywhere.  So while they’ve ultimately formed unique cultures, I can completely see why they have mixed physical characteristics.  And I think that was in the books  too.  While the Aiel were unique with the red hair and light eyes, it seemed like every other culture had a range of skin tones, hair color, and eye color.  So, I think it’s sort of interesting that the way to tell differences is by clothing and customs vice features. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I think I caught that one later on, maybe 96 or so, but I just didn't use the internet for social media much back then. I remember the 'looney theories'. I used it like I did the wiki. I'm not a re-reader or re-watcher because there's always something new to read or watch in between, so I have to look a lot up. 

I still don't know who killed Asmodean, and I was ticked that Jordan was being so smug about how obvious it was. 

 

[SueB]

2 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I think I caught that one later on, maybe 96 or so, but I just didn't use the internet for social media much back then. I remember the 'looney theories'. I used it like I did the wiki. I'm not a re-reader or re-watcher because there's always something new to read or watch in between, so I have to look a lot up. 

I still don't know who killed Asmodean, and I was ticked that Jordan was being so smug about how obvious it was. 

 

Graendal.  Came out in last book.  

[DoctorAtomic]

I thought it was Lanfear? Honestly. 

 

[Black Knight]

2 hours ago, SueB said:

I think customs, politics, fashion and music ARE region specific.  The only diversity is the physical characteristics. I think the ‘Breaking of the World’ uprooted people everywhere.  So while they’ve ultimately formed unique cultures, I can completely see why they have mixed physical characteristics.

Completely agree, and there's nothing unrealistic about that. It could be as you said, or it could be that, pre-Breaking of the World, there had already been a lot of immigration into different areas. And then when the Breaking of the World came, people did stay in their regions but a singular regional culture arose that supplanted all previous existing ones. Both are ways to end up with a lot of diversity of physical characteristics within the same culture.

I remember talking about WoT on Usenet, and especially on the email discussion list that was devised (because not everyone had access to Usenet). It was such a high-volume discussion list, and back in those days email inboxes actually could get full, and if yours got full and caused one of those emails to bounce, you were kicked off the discussion list and banned forever. With the high volume making sure the inbox didn't get full was a constant source of stress - no smartphones to be able to keep up on email 24/7! But it was fun.

[Danny Franks]

3 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I still don't know who killed Asmodean, and I was ticked that Jordan was being so smug about how obvious it was. 

I definitely never figured it out, but I spent a lot of time on Wotmania, back around 2000-2007 and the main suspects were... varied. Some people thought it was Lanfear, some thought Demandred, some Moridin. Slayer was a popular guess too. I guess some people offered the theory that it was Graendel, but no one believed it was as obvious as RJ had insisted.

The theory posts on Wotmania were so good, though. Varying from simple and straightforward to really detailed, complicated, philosophical and theological ideas about where the series was going to go.

[pootlus]

On 11/23/2021 at 7:46 AM, DearEvette said:

Oh, man, back in the day circa 1994-ish there was the Usenet. And there was a pretty cracked out WOT forum that I was a part of -- rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan.   

Oh wow, NOW you're dredging up memories, YKYBRTMRJ and all.

One thing the show has already done miles better than the books is set up Lan/Nynaeve.  In the books I was very much "huh?" but holy shit the sparks have definitely flown already there.

A shame they've replaced Barney Harris as he's definitely one of the stronger actors.

[DoctorAtomic]

It helps that Lan is being portrayed as an actual person instead of just stomping around. 

[Danny Franks]

Rafe Judkins just did a Reddit AMA where he addressed a lot of the questions about changes made from the books.

Lots of interesting stuff, including confirmation that some of the scenes cut from episode one will be released as deleted scenes, and also that we'll get some flashbacks touching on things like Tam's fever dream.

This answer about Perrin is pretty solid:

Quote

Well, firstly in the longer version of the script I'd had Perrin being the apprentice to the town blacksmith, who he then accidentally killed during the Trolloc attack. It really was important to me that he have an iconic moment of violence in the first episode that would underpin his long term journey with violence and whether he'd choose the axe or the hammer. So I'd made that blacksmith his mom. But as we had to trim a bunch of page length down in the scripts, it became a simpler story to tell it as his wife, and also felt natural that if these characters were in their early 20s in a small mountain village, that one of them likely would be married. There's a scene in the books where Perrin talks about if he'd stayed in the Two Rivers he might've married Laila Dearn, and voila, Laila was born. My only sadness is we couldn't have seen more of her. Helena Westerman who played her was AMAZING

Also, Aviendha has been cast! I need to know who the actress is.

This thread has a nice summary of everything Rafe said.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Danny Franks

[Humbugged]

 

people all over are losing their shit over konyoku onsen - remember in Book 2 with the EF5 having to bathe with the the high lords and ladies of Fal Dara

And Rafe has had to come out and say something

[Humbugged]

Gave us it really early on but that is why Nynaeve is a fucking badass . Lan dying so she Super Saiyaned her self to heal him and a shit ton of people

 

And I know it was sad when she died ,but baby Grinwell giving Mat the Birgitte doll was cute as that is his drinking buddy 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Humbugged

[munchiewoman]

I was wondering last week why Logain seemed so strong and defiant, since when we met him in the books he was so defeated and sad. I like seeing how he got gentled, and you can't really blame them, and it looked painful when she just ripped the power out of him. Though based on a comment in the episode thread, they may have been better off showing the threads as cut instead of flowing away as they did.

  I know this deviated all over the place, but I liked it.  I got goose bumps when Nynaeve freaked the hell out. Though, should Logain have been able to see Nynaeve's crazy weaves?   Someone in the show pointed out they couldn't see the male weaves...

It's too bad about Liandrin, because I would think she was badass and cool if I didn't know better.  Alanna though?  Love her.  I like her Warders too ... too bad they're not long for this world. If they follow this part of the books.

Thom isn't really as I imagined him, but he's working for me very much.  Rand though?  They're making him out to be kind of stupid and petulant.  I hope he gets better.

I like Aram much better here than in the books.  His charm seemed more smarmy in the books, but he is cute and funny and just a bit weary of his family's beliefs.  It's setting his story up nicely, I think.

[quarks]

I'm not sure what it says about the show, the books, or me, that my favorite episode so far has also been the one that deviated the most from the books so far. I especially liked the little touches - the Birgette doll;  Nynaeve healing everyone right before Liandrin gentled Logain, hinting at Nynaeve later healing Logain; Lan using a religious ritual of sorts to give us some of the back story of Malkier, and also showing that he knows the Old Tongue.

I also like Liandrin here much more than I did in the books. In the books she was so annoying and Obviously Evil that I had a real issue believing that anyone would listen to her, much less so many people. Just, no. Here she actually makes a decent argument for breaking White Tower law, and is much more subtle in her approach to Nynaeve - even if Nynaeve is immediately suspicious. I can see how she'll be able to trick the Supergirls later, if the show keeps that plot, and how she became a leader with both the Red and Black Ajahs. 

[DoctorAtomic]

11 hours ago, munchiewoman said:

Though, should Logain have been able to see Nynaeve's crazy weaves?   Someone in the show pointed out they couldn't see the male weaves...

I'm just teeing it up now, but in the books the stronger guys could sense when the ladies were channeling. iirc, when Rand was going through his uber pissy phase, he screeched at one of the older Aes, maybe even Cadsuane, about channeling when they promised not to, and they were shocked that he actually knew. We really haven't been given much on channeling physics on the show yet though. They haven't even explained air, water, etc. 

Ugh, I am not looking forward to the every woman knows what's best for Rand and Rand throws a tantrum every 5 minutes. 

29 minutes ago, quarks said:

I also like Liandrin here much more than I did in the books. In the books she was so annoying and Obviously Evil that I had a real issue believing that anyone would listen to her, much less so many people.

I share this opinion. The Reds were so over the top, derivative 'man haters', and just so arrogant, that I found it hard to believe how they function as part of a whole White Tower. Which, I suppose as we see later on with Salidar, I guess I'm kind of right. 

Philosophically, I agree, you need to go and find male channelers, especially how politically disruptive false dragons could be. I always thought it was highly short sighted to just gentle them immediately though. Given how much we get hit over the head about how men and women channeling together was what made the Age of Legends so legendary, I would think at least the yellow and probably the brown would be interested in learning what the taint does or feels, or what/how the guys channel in some effort to fix it. I mean, it's hard to believe no one thought about cleansing saidan until Rand came along. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by DoctorAtomic

[Black Knight]

46 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Ugh, I am not looking forward to the every woman knows what's best for Rand and Rand throws a tantrum every 5 minutes. 

I expect the show will eliminate or at least vastly shorten that phase. Nobody comes off well and it's not like it's popular with readers. Rand is older on the show, so it's really unnecessary. Rand and the women can have legitimate conflict without them all being so ridiculous. Plus it is one thing to have a teenager throwing tantrums, but quite another to have a fully grown adult man doing it.

[DoctorAtomic]

Oh wow, Logain channeling looks super cool with the black parts. Also he doesn't need to do all the hand waving. I like the subtle differences - it's in line with the guys having to grab it, but the ladies sort of bring it in. It sort of circles around them. 

1 hour ago, quarks said:

I'm not sure what it says about the show, the books, or me, that my favorite episode so far has also been the one that deviated the most from the books so far.

This was what i was hoping for. In the books, everyone was always screaming about how the Dragon was going to break the world, and here, it's been said several times, he could break or bind/unite, etc., instead. It's a much better take. You still have the manipulative element of everyone thinking they know how to tell Rand to do it their way, but it's less 'welp, we're screwed!' 

I almost feel like this should have been E3, to draw in non book viewers more. 

Liandrin in 5 lines is already light years better than the books. With the shielding scene, it's going to be bonkers when Rand breaks out. 

Lan being all gossipy keeps him out front as MVP of the show so far. The whole scene at the fire was fantastic in just making these characters actual people. I forgot Alanna and the warders bang. Ny was hilarious.

12 hours ago, munchiewoman said:

I like Aram much better here than in the books.

I never had much use for him, but I agree he's much more of a developed character here. I actually don't have much use for the Tinkers beyond being an Aiel plot device. They never find the song. Good foreshadowing with him though. 

Now that I think about it, and my memory is hazy, tons of characters were so one-dimensional,  even Rand for huge stretches of time, it's a wonder I made it through. The effort here is just so huge to make these characters actual people. 

I do like how the other Aes are cracking on Moraine for being aloof. I'm surprised no one is pointing out that if it's the end of the age, then the wheel should be spinning out some powerful channelers. 

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by DoctorAtomic

[DoctorAtomic]

2 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

Rand and the women can have legitimate conflict without them all being so ridiculous. Plus it is one thing to have a teenager throwing tantrums, but quite another to have a fully grown adult man doing it.

I'm crossing my fingers, and based on the quality of this episode I have some faith. It's fair, once everyone knows Rand is the Dragon, that he's going to be frazzled. He doesn't have a mentor in terms of channeling, except for the voice gibbering in his head, which may or may not mean he's already bonkers. 

I'm hoping with Lan being so great right now, and eventually teaching Rand the sword, that he's got somewhat of a sympathetic ear. Really, they could tone down Rand and Cadsuane about 50 billion notches and develop a really interesting relationship. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Shouldn't we have seen some evidence of Rand channeling yet? 

Oh, I just noticed Ny's skirt was yellow. Nice touch. oof, there was some smoke coming out of my tv with Ny and Lan. 

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

13 hours ago, munchiewoman said:

Though, should Logain have been able to see Nynaeve's crazy weaves?   Someone in the show pointed out they couldn't see the male weaves...

I'm just teeing it up now, but in the books the stronger guys could sense when the ladies were channeling.

Just to follow up, after Logain melts the cage he says - I can hear them when they channel. 

Great scene with Logain and Moraine. I mean, there's really only one way to know who is the dragon for sure, but only we know that at this point + the Foretelling which only Moraine and Lan know. Her asking Ny her age should rule her out. 

Was Alanna using earth in the big battle? 

Holy fuck all, Ny. Wow shit. If they're showing her like a raging sun, what the hell are they going to show for Rand? Cleansing the taint is going to be epic. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by DoctorAtomic

[DoctorAtomic]

I actually think this is a great way to show Logain being gentled because it doesn't make the reds out to be how they were in the book. 

However, I think the scene with Moiraine is important, and as they said before, you don't want to gentle the actual Dragon. Moiraine knew he wasn't because he was too old. 

I can't wait till Ny heals Logain.

[quarks]

I think we have seen some evidence of Rand channeling - when he broke through that supposedly unbreakable door in episode 3.

But it's also very clear that this show is trying to keep non-book readers guessing about who the Dragon Reborn is - and if they showed Rand with black swirly things around him, that would be a bit more of a giveaway. As it is, I thought they did a nice job of initially suggesting that it was just barely possible that Moiraine was wrong, and Logain is the Dragon Reborn, before having Logain switch from believing that he's the Dragon to realizing Nynaeve could be the Dragon, with the added fake out of, hey, Mat is looking awfully suspicious just now, and Perrin is listening very carefully to one theory about how to completely change the world....

Regarding Logain seeing the saidar weaves - in the books he mentions being able to see a glow around ta'veren. He's able to identify both Rand and Mat. Since Egwene and Nynaeve are both ta'veren in the show, it makes sense that Logain can see that. But mostly I think that was there to convince non-book readers that Nynaeve might be the Dragon Reborn, or all five of them are.

 

[DoctorAtomic]

Just now, quarks said:

I think we have seen some evidence of Rand channeling - when he broke through that supposedly unbreakable door in episode 3.

I thought he was just really freaked out, but I can't call bs on that. I would think they maybe have a few more scenes like that. Maybe he heals Mat for a time without knowing or something. 

4 minutes ago, quarks said:

But it's also very clear that this show is trying to keep non-book readers guessing about who the Dragon Reborn is - and if they showed Rand with black swirly things around him, that would be a bit more of a giveaway. As it is, I thought they did a nice job of initially suggesting that it was just barely possible that Moiraine was wrong, and Logain is the Dragon Reborn, before having Logain switch from believing that he's the Dragon to realizing Nynaeve could be the Dragon, with the added fake out of, hey, Mat is looking awfully suspicious just now, and Perrin is listening very carefully to one theory about how to completely change the world.

I'm with you there. I know the show needs to be playing it close to the vest. Showing the swirls around Rand would be too much of a giveaway. He doesn't properly channel until the Eye. I don't think they're doing necessarily a bad job of it. I have slight concern that when they get to the Eye, it's going to be 'Rand channels all of a sudden.' He did actually have the sickness prior to that and healed Bela, so it was set up fairly. I don't want viewers to call bs and be turned off. To be fair, they could pull what they did with Ny and make the Eye really more extreme; I mean, there is a Foresaken there. Ny was under tremendous stress, so they could do something similar. They're playing it with Mat and Perrin, as you correctly point out, but I don't see why that's enough.

I still think they made a slight error in including the ladies as potential dragons though especially showing diesel Ny. If *she* is basically eclipsing professional channelers without thinking, then what the hell strong is the Dragon going to be *and* it's a dude?! That seems like it ups the stakes way way more to me. Sure, a Dragon Ny isn't going to be listening much to the Aes anyway, but no one has to worry about her going nuts. 

They showed Logain listening to voices already and being strong enough to turn kings. That seems sufficiently suspenseful. Ny being a super strong wilder throws another wild card into everything, and that also seems sufficiently dramatic. 

That's a long walk for me saying that I take the point. 

15 minutes ago, quarks said:

Since Egwene and Nynaeve are both ta'veren in the show, it makes sense that Logain can see that.

Given that he said he could 'hear' channeling, what he's seeing with Ny would have to be different. I don't mind that. Given how important they all are, the Wheel spinning them all out now still makes sense. 

I do think, with all we're saying about trying to play it close on the show, Logain needs to see Rand at some point. Although if he's cut off now, I don't know how that will work. 

tbh, I was interested in watching the show, but the books left a bad taste in my mouth. I'm thoroughly shocked at how much I'm genuinely enjoying this series. I mean, I'm not a hate watcher in general, because I have better things to do, but I figured I'd be happy with seeing some of my favorite scenes from the books and that would be it. 

[Danny Franks]

There was so much info dropped in episode four, and a lot of it done in really casual, effective ways. Talk about different ajahs, about warders, about the differentiation of the One Power streams. We saw Logain channel without using the gestures Aes Sedai use, we saw the taint (sorry, the corruption).

I'm surprised at how fine I am with changes from the book, but I've come to see this first season as a way of letting viewers know everything they need to know about the world - channeling, Aes Sedai, the Breaking of the World etc - and I think this episode did a ton of work in that respect.

We started off with Mat as a potential Dragon, then Nynaeve, but absolutely not Rand. Oh no, definitely not Rand. I reckon in the next episode or two we'll see hints that it might be Egwene or Perrin.

[gik910]

I have a whole bunch of thoughts which I will get to but the main one after episode 4 is that people are gonna be PISSED when the Dragon is Rand. 

[DoctorAtomic]

The only way this show was going to be successful was if they made changes like this imo. I'm glad they're basically throwing out any effort to please so-called 'purists'. While I think my point is apt about the Dragon being a guy, which won't matter anyway, I think this is the right way to adapt the books. 

To that end, I'm going to say this now on the off chance I'm right - When Rand et al. unbored the Bore at the end, one of the consequences I was hoping for was that there wouldn't have been any more channeling - the wheel would be turning closer to our age. It would still be a Breaking, but not physically. I mean keep the rest. Just that. 

I would love it if the show were to be that bold. 

[DoctorAtomic]

9 minutes ago, gik910 said:

I have a whole bunch of thoughts which I will get to but the main one after episode 4 is that people are gonna be PISSED when the Dragon is Rand. 

The show wouldn't go so far as to change that, would they? 

[munchiewoman]

42 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Just to follow up, after Logain melts the cage he says - I can hear them when they channel. 

But he covered his eyes and specifically mentioned a raging sun.  Yes, they have shown that Rand and especially the Forsaken knew when someone was channeling, but Logain shouldn't be able to see the weaves, even massive ones, unless he was technically seeing her ta'veren status, but the glow went away once she stopped channeling.  BTW, loved how it blew her braid out.  Rand's channeling at the Eye will be different because he's also got the taint on saidin to deal with, so that should be fun to watch with all the black and white glowing. 

 

17 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

We started off with Mat as a potential Dragon, then Nynaeve, but absolutely not Rand. Oh no, definitely not Rand. I reckon in the next episode or two we'll see hints that it might be Egwene or Perrin.

You're probably right.  Which means we're missing a lot of what he went through, the fear and confusion.  As others have said, I am fine with missing some of the pissiness (though there's plenty to be had once he declares himself), but they are  shorting his character by trying to keep him in the background.

I wonder why they didn't have Moiraine give the boys (and girl) the coins so she would know where they were.  

[DoctorAtomic]

The pool of saidin at the Eye was pure iirc. So that should be even better. 

[gik910]

8 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

The show wouldn't go so far as to change that, would they? 

 I highly doubt it. But they have set up Nynaeve to be pretty badass  - so however they do the reveal for Rand ( probably at the Eye) is gonna have to be spectacular. 

[Danny Franks]

3 minutes ago, munchiewoman said:

You're probably right.  Which means we're missing a lot of what he went through, the fear and confusion.  As others have said, I am fine with missing some of the pissiness (though there's plenty to be had once he declares himself), but they are  shorting his character by trying to keep him in the background.

I wonder why they didn't have Moiraine give the boys (and girl) the coins so she would know where they were.  

I think we're going to see a lot of what Rand has been going through after the fact. We know the fever dream scene is coming, as a flashback, and I think that it will inform a lot of Rand's pissiness towards Moiraine and Egwene.

I'm really eager to see a scene where Rand is told about the importance of the heron on Tam's sword. I was hoping Thom might borrow the line about "a shepherd from the Two Rivers, with a heron mark blade."

[DoctorAtomic]

2 minutes ago, gik910 said:

 I highly doubt it. But they have set up Nynaeve to be pretty badass  - so however they do the reveal for Rand ( probably at the Eye) is gonna have to be spectacular. 

That's what I was thinking. All the main channelers, Elayne coming up too, have to be just ridiculous. 

[gik910]

24 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

That's what I was thinking. All the main channelers, Elayne coming up too, have to be just ridiculous. 

And to be fair - all the women are some of the most powerful channelers that the Aes Sedai have seen in thousands of years, so it makes sense that it would be a bit mind blowing.  It's a smart narrative decision for tv.

But, yeah. Rand will have to be out of this world. I'm actually pretty stoked to see how this plays out. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by gik910

[DoctorAtomic]

It's going to beg the question if I wasn't a book reader - why the hell would the likes of Rand or Ny listen to basically the equivalent to making a sand castle when they're figuratively building the Empire State building? 

[gik910]

9 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

It's going to beg the question if I wasn't a book reader - why the hell would the likes of Rand or Ny listen to basically the equivalent to making a sand castle when they're figuratively building the Empire State building? 

For Ny if they keep her block storyline - she won't be able to channel at will or know how to do things intentionally. If they play that out, the AS are the only ones she can go to (that we meet this early on anyway). 

I imagine with Rand, they will play upon his fear. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by gik910

[Humbugged]

Quote

Interesting. I guess I wasn't paying close intention.

After thousands of years, those really shouldn't be standing anymore or even be visible over ground. But magic, whatever. :D

I wonder what happened? Did the dragon destroy how electricity works? That's the only reason I could think off for being thrown back thousand of years. But even then, shouldn't there be guns around?

  5 hours ago, MissLucas said:

So, if men can't hold the One Power why does Moraine even consider Perrin, Mat and Rand as valuable candidates? And is that the reason the other Aes Sedai and the ...uhm Not-Amaryllis are wary of her?

I think the Dragon would be the only one not effected by the madness the dark one corrupted the one power with. Which is why they are so sure that the men who go mad aren't the dragon.

Which also means if our three guys don't go mad, we know for sure they are all part of the dragon.

Electricity was fed through the Source and it all went to shit when the male half was corrupted and the world broke

There will be renaissance level fire arms later on ,as prior to all this they were unarmed

And not to tell you who the dragon is but LTT is in his head for most of the books

 

[Which Tyler]

Loved Egwene's Tinker shawl - which just happened to be striped with Red, Yellow, Blue, Green, Brown and Grey.

Did anyone notice any white in there?

[DoctorAtomic]

Oh wow nice catch! I caught the shot of her before when Moraine was saying 'drew too much of the power and burnt out' when talking about Menetheren. I guess this what GOT bookers were like when the show came out. We don't really have a Red Wedding scene to see how the non bookers react. I guess when Rand draws  ExcaliburCallendor and beats down Ish. Of course, they need to establish that Ish is Seriously A Big Deal. Which means Falme has to come into play at some point. That's a lot of show to get to those scenes. 

I guess TPTBs could play it that either Ny or Rand could be the Dragon. They're clearly the strongest by a ton. It's just hard for me to believe she'd seriously consider she would be though. Then again, Rand didn't either, I suppose. 

I guess I'm looking too much for Rand channeling. I'll have to pay closer attention. It's probably way too soon for any Mat-eye easter eggs. 

I really like Ny's channeling scene, and I agree that this was a great way to introduce her talent. It seems overall this reeled in the non bookers. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I liked Lan - 'oh, I shouldn't have had a drink, you get so emotional' to Moiraine. When her whole emoting consisted of her squeezing his hand. 

It was squicky when they revealed the warder bond was a form of compulsion, and it just wasn't a good look for anyone when the Aes thought that bonding Asha'man would control them and it backfired.

I'm hoping the show is going for more consent here. So far, Moiraine has been frank with Lan, and I feel there's a healthy relationship there. It seemed so with Alanna as well. 

[ElizaD]

11 hours ago, quarks said:

I think we have seen some evidence of Rand channeling - when he broke through that supposedly unbreakable door in episode 3.

Regarding Logain seeing the saidar weaves - in the books he mentions being able to see a glow around ta'veren. He's able to identify both Rand and Mat. Since Egwene and Nynaeve are both ta'veren in the show, it makes sense that Logain can see that. But mostly I think that was there to convince non-book readers that Nynaeve might be the Dragon Reborn, or all five of them are.

I'm worried right now that non-readers will be disappointed when Rand turns out to be the Dragon. He hasn't gotten anything cool to do and has mostly been Egwene's boyfriend. I hope Loial at least sells the Aiel angle when they meet. Even if we're getting Tam/Dragonmount flashbacks they might not land emotionally. The show gave Nynaeve such a big moment that I can already see the rage when the saviour is Rand instead.

There was a short Logain teaser that was cut in a way that made me think Mat would get Rand's book moment of seeing him in a cage. If the show treats seeing ta'veren as more like Min's visions, maybe even a gentled Show Logain can realise what the boys are and start laughing.

 

[Danny Franks]

3 hours ago, ElizaD said:

I'm worried right now that non-readers will be disappointed when Rand turns out to be the Dragon. He hasn't gotten anything cool to do and has mostly been Egwene's boyfriend. I hope Loial at least sells the Aiel angle when they meet. Even if we're getting Tam/Dragonmount flashbacks they might not land emotionally. The show gave Nynaeve such a big moment that I can already see the rage when the saviour is Rand instead.

There was a short Logain teaser that was cut in a way that made me think Mat would get Rand's book moment of seeing him in a cage. If the show treats seeing ta'veren as more like Min's visions, maybe even a gentled Show Logain can realise what the boys are and start laughing.

 

I'm not sure whether they're going to go for the big shock by giving everyone else 'am I the Dragon?' moments and Rand none, or they're going to build his potential up more in the episodes to come.

I'd prefer the latter, but I think the fact they've got people seriously wondering who the Dragon Reborn is means they've done a good job of adapting the books. The mystery in the books was more "who/what is Rand?" which is why Moiraine's last line of "the prophecies will be fulfilled. The Dragon is reborn." hit so hard.

But the show has been really subtle - Rand channeling to break down that door and Thom talking about Aiel having red hair are the only two clues I've seen so far. I wish they'd kept the bit with Moiraine noticing that Bela seems less tired than the other horses.

Some things I need them to do with Rand -

1. Loial recognising him as Aiel and giving that greeting

2. Lan talking to Rand about the sword and the importance of the heron mark

3. Someone noting that he doesn't have the same colouring as the rest of his friends (perhaps Liandrin, if they meet)

4. Seeing the flashback to Tam's fever dream and revealing that Rand has been squirreling away the fact that Tam talked about finding him as a baby (we're getting the flashback, but I don't know how specific Tam's fever mutterings will be)

Something else I want, unrelated, is Lan asking Moiraine why she said nothing about Nynaeve being able to channel. And confirmation that Liandrin and the other sisters were eying her because they could immediately see her potential.

[quarks]

7 hours ago, ElizaD said:

I'm worried right now that non-readers will be disappointed when Rand turns out to be the Dragon. He hasn't gotten anything cool to do and has mostly been Egwene's boyfriend. I hope Loial at least sells the Aiel angle when they meet. Even if we're getting Tam/Dragonmount flashbacks they might not land emotionally. The show gave Nynaeve such a big moment that I can already see the rage when the saviour is Rand instead.

There was a short Logain teaser that was cut in a way that made me think Mat would get Rand's book moment of seeing him in a cage. If the show treats seeing ta'veren as more like Min's visions, maybe even a gentled Show Logain can realise what the boys are and start laughing.

 

It somewhat depends upon how they reveal it. But also, I think it's going to depend upon how much non-readers like Rand at that point. And as of right now on the show, I don't think there's all that much there to like - or, to be fair, dislike. It's not just that he hasn't gotten anything cool to do yet, but also, he hasn't really had much to say. The memorable dialogue has pretty much all gone to other characters. Not to mention that on the show, Nynaeve, Perrin and Mat all have tragic backstories, which usually engender audience sympathy, and Rand....has a solid relationship with his father and a seemingly happy childhood. 

He has had a couple of decent moments here and there - teaming up with Perrin to get money to buy lanterns for Mat's sisters, showing that he's willing to work for lodging, coming across as generally honest, especially in contrast to Mat and Thom, but nothing really memorable yet. I guess we'll see what the show does in the next few episodes, and if Rand's real parents and his adoptive mother get mentioned pre-reveal.

That is if this is revealed. I mean, I don't think the show will budge from canon all that much, but I'll admit that this episode made me half-wonder if the show is planning on tossing out the books and making all five of them the Dragon Reborn. I doubt it, but I still half-wondered.

[Black Knight]

One of the non-spoiled reviewers, who had only seen six of the eight episodes (that's what was available for him at the time) before writing the review, wrote something about Rand carrying himself as if he's the main character when he's not. The reviewer hadn't put 2+2 together yet, obviously, but certainly some savvy non-readers will do the math. It sounds like we will have some Rand-main-character-energy coming up in the next three episodes even as they keep his actual doings seemingly relatively unimportant.

[DoctorAtomic]

I assume they're ending this season at the Eye. Rand channels there, and Moiraine is convinced he's the Dragon. Is the show going to do that? Just because he can channel doesn't necessarily means he's the Dragon within the show context, since they're laying it on thick that it could be Ny as of E4. And even just because he can channel. Rand didn't think so in the books either. 

Unless they pull GOT and have the next to last episode be the big one. 

Will they drag it out until Callendor just between him and Ny? I mean, you can only dance this dance for so long until viewers get tired of it. 

I'm also not sure if the viewers understand Ish is clomping around their dreams looking for the Dragon too. No one has commented on it in the episode threads. tbh, no one really seems to care about it much at this point. 

[Black Knight]

The show is planned to be fewer seasons than the books, so no, I don't think they're going to drag the mystery of the Dragon Reborn out beyond the first season. Too much of the plot depends on Rand being established as it, acting accordingly, and people treating him accordingly.

One thing non-readers don't necessarily seem to realize yet is that just because someone is not the Dragon Reborn doesn't mean that they can't still be a central character. There is no "one central character" in this series. The first book is extremely heavy on Rand's POV (leaving no suspense as to who the Dragon Reborn is), true, but afterwards it's balanced out a lot more, if only because Jordan needs all the different POVs to tell the full story that sprawls across the world, not just the place Rand happens to be at. Non-readers will eventually realize this series is like GoT in that respect, and I think they'll be less bothered by who is or isn't the Dragon Reborn then, because it won't mean less screentime or importance for their personal favorites.

[DoctorAtomic]

As much as I like what the show is doing, in the books, Moraine was, "Lan, 'we're going to the Two RIvers because I think the Dragon is there; whoa there's also tarvaren, like more. wtf?' I don't think the show put across that the wheel bends to them. In the show, she only had one line about that. 

I'm not sure for television that they end the season with the Dragon down to Ny and Rand. Rand channels *and* beats a Foresaken at the Eye.

It doesn't seem in the threads the who is the Dragon is that big a deal yet. 

 

[Humbugged]

3 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

As much as I like what the show is doing, in the books, Moraine was, "Lan, 'we're going to the Two RIvers because I think the Dragon is there; whoa there's also tarvaren, like more. wtf?' I don't think the show put across that the wheel bends to them. In the show, she only had one line about that. 

I'm not sure for television that they end the season with the Dragon down to Ny and Rand. Rand channels *and* beats a Foresaken at the Eye.

It doesn't seem in the threads the who is the Dragon is that big a deal yet. 

 

This season ends with the Eye of The World . So when they get there and dig through the chest you are going to have the Banner and the Horn

Edited November 28, 2021 by Humbugged

[Danny Franks]

I think the Dragon Reborn's identity will be confirmed by the end of the season. No doubt, at least in the minds of the audience and Moiraine.

Moiraine already knew that Nynaeve was a potentially powerful channeler, from the moment they met. You can see that in the show because it's Nynaeve she went to first, in Emond's Field but, once she learned that Nynaeve is too old, she discounted her as a possibility. 

She may enquire about her age again, but if she's too old, she's too old.

And when Rand channels, we'll know it's him. We've seen glimpses of Shienaran cavalry charging at Tarwin's Gap, so I think it's very likely we'll see Rand destroy a Trolloc army singlehandedly. We'll see him fight Ba'alzamon as well.