S01.E06: Episode 6

[EtheltoTillie]

1 hour ago, TV Anonymous said:

Ah okay, thank you. I used to live in Montreal and the popular Hebrew cuisine there was the Montreal smoked meat sandwich. Rye bread, smoked meat and mustard. That was until French Canadians came to visit and add mayonnaise to the sandwich. 

Yes, we'd eat pastrami or corned beef on rye with mustard.  Or salami.  Or ham (I wasn't raised kosher).  Not baloney on white with mayonnaise, as in the show. 

[Starchild]

4 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I agree with your analysis of the rabbi, but I don't see the evidence for Evelyn "not really buying it." She was in just as much denial of her terrible foolishness as the rabbi was.

If the show gave us any evidence to the contrary, I need to be reminded of it.

I inferred it from her dismayed expression while he was trying to convince the other guys of the theory, but admittedly that expression could reflect any number of things, including a shared delusion with her husband that those guys clearly weren't buying.

[Milburn Stone]

18 minutes ago, Starchild said:

I inferred it from her dismayed expression while he was trying to convince the other guys of the theory, but admittedly that expression could reflect any number of things, including a shared delusion with her husband that those guys clearly weren't buying.

I see where you got that. That distraught expression, to me, was saying "isn't it terrible how the Nazis have been blackmailing our president?"

[Marley]

I’m honestly a bit confused about the end.

Why was Herman such a jerk to Alvin? Yea he was being obnoxious but did he forget Alvin went to war?

How can a First Lady call for a special election? How is that even possible. I thought it was a trick or something it was so weird.

Who was FDR running against?

Did Pearl Harbour happen in the show and did they go to war in the show after that? Did I miss something.

The other things in the episode I get but Ithe ending was weird to me and I didn’t like it really and I had liked the show up until the end.

[buckboard]

On 4/22/2020 at 7:09 PM, GussieK said:

I agree.

Is it terrible that I keep finding myself singing the Lindbergh song?  It's so jaunty! "And the road is open again!"

Read the link I posted and you'll feel better about singing the theme song.

[MrWhyt]

1 hour ago, Marley said:

How can a First Lady call for a special election? How is that even possible. I thought it was a trick or something it was so weird.

it was her expressing her desire for a new election, not a command.

Quote

Did Pearl Harbour happen in the show and did they go to war in the show after that? Did I miss something.

no Pearl Harbour in the show. The book carries on past the election.

[Roseanna]

 

On 4/22/2020 at 8:43 PM, Maysie said:

It's interesting to me that in the end, Sandy was far more mature about his misplaced trust in Lindbergh than Evelyn and the rabbi. I'm sure at such a young age that it was tough for him to rip up his pictures and have the epiphany that his hero was such a let down, but he was wise enough to know that when you're wrong, you're wrong and there's no re-writing the past.

Evelyn and the rabbi, on the other hand... maybe their age and place in life actually got in the way of admitting the mistake. There was no acknowledgement that their actions may have put her sister's family at risk and in fact, Evelyn was more than ready to put them at further risk by hiding out with them. It underscored that Evelyn and the rabbi were able to twist whatever good was happening to them into being good for the community and the cause. Whatever, I was very gratified to see Bess turn Evelyn away. I guess in the end it was good Sandy went to Kentucky because otherwise, poor Seldon would probably be dead.

It was far easier to Sandy as he had done nothing wrong towards anybody, so he only had to change his opinions after meeting the reality.

Instead, Evelyn and the rabbi had invested their all on the mission they had really believed in and worked hard for, got as a reward high positions and prestige and then lost all. So it was, sadly, psycholocically understandable that they couldn't admit that they had not only been completely fooled but, most of all, helped to cause horrible crimes nationwide.  

There were Communists who had committed to to Cause, worked their whole life for it and even suffered for it in prison. Even after learning that their relatives had been murdered by Stalin they couldn't give up their faith that for without it they would have lived in vain.

It's not rare that just people who regard themselves more intelligent than ordinary people are more easily fooled than they. The rabbi evidently believed that all people act rationally and therefore one must be permissive towards others' opinions and one can make compromises with all. In short, he couldn't understand people like Hitler at all, not remembering that "if you give Devil one finger, he will take your whole hand".  

As for Evelyn, she probably wanted to keep her position and therefore didn't want to see - not even how degradingly she was treated in the White House party. 

[Roseanna]

On 4/22/2020 at 4:19 AM, txhorns79 said:

Dear God, Herman, can you ever just not offer an opinion?  Why would you invite Alvin to your home, confront him and then fight him?  How old are you?  That whole scene just bothered me so much. 

I think Herman's reaction was undestandable: he got annoyed by Alvin's fancy suit and tie and his boasting about his bright business prospects due his marriage which was improper in the circumstances (as was shown when Seldon whose mom was just murdered left the table).

Of course it's possible that Herman was just envious towards Alvin's success. As Herman had used to be the one who helped Alvin, maybe he couldn't stand that their roles had changed.

Or, could Herman suspect that Alvin's success was due to connections with Mafia?   

[DoctorAtomic]

On 4/24/2020 at 5:24 PM, Marley said:

Why was Herman such a jerk to Alvin? Yea he was being obnoxious but did he forget Alvin went to war?

Herman just came back from a harrowing road trip where a boy's mother was literally burned to death. I would think he was suffering from some trauma while Alvin was living high on the hog. It grated. 

On 4/24/2020 at 7:24 PM, MrWhyt said:

it was her expressing her desire for a new election, not a command.

In the speech she specifically called for congress to take action too. 

 

[DoctorAtomic]

On 4/21/2020 at 10:38 PM, txhorns79 said:

The amendment you might be thinking of came in 1947.  Truman asked for it after FDR died in 1945, and it put the Speaker of the House and President Pro Tempore of the Senate back into the line of succession, and gave them precedence over Cabinet Secretaries.

It was that one. 

On 4/22/2020 at 4:45 PM, Cotypubby said:

The HBO podcast about this episode answered so many of my questions!

The fact that additional media is necessary for the show strikes me as a flaw in its execution. 

 

[The Wild Sow]

On 4/20/2020 at 11:23 PM, The Wild Sow said:

but I think they wrapped the series up so fast, cramming way too much into the last 1/2 hour.  Should have stretched it into 90 minutes or even 2 hours.   I was sitting there halfway through the hour, wondering how they were going to get everything in!  Well, I have my answer.  Poorly.

I learned later that they basically ran out of $$ to extend the story, either by a longer finale or another ep.  But still...poor wrap-up.

[Fellaway]

On 4/20/2020 at 10:44 PM, scrb said:

Herman and Bess do the right thing for Selden, because they know Evelyn sent him and his mother to KY, where the Klan openly killed people.

Guess Alvin is the unwitting hero.  Pulse navigation to eliminate Lindbergh — he didn’t know until the morning after.  

I'm late to the party and everyone's probably left this thread, but I wanted to comment on a few things, so...

Herman and Bess also realized that Philip was partially responsible for Seldon and his mother being sent to Kentucky - That whole "our responsibility" conversation with Bess's pointed look over her shoulder to Philip. - and, I think, that was the greater impetus for Herman going to get Seldon than Evelyn's involvement.

As to Alvin, was he really the one who brought down Lindbergh's plane? He said the machine he was using would only cover 100 miles of air space, so, when the Brit didn't seem concerned about that, it led me to believe they had other people covering other specific areas of 100 miles of air space. Since he was surprised when the Brit shut him down, I inferred that someone somewhere else with another machine took down Lindbergh.

On 4/20/2020 at 10:53 PM, AimingforYoko said:

I kinda like the ambiguous ending. Simon really didn't want to let us off the hook.

While I wouldn't be averse to another season, I think this series said all it needed to say for our characters and for the universe they were living in. I feel settled with where they're at and can leave to my imaginings what their futures hold.

On 4/20/2020 at 11:23 PM, The Wild Sow said:

Poor Seldon!  And poor Philip, because he's got to live with the guilt of getting the Wishnows sent to Kentucky, and of course he can never tell anyone.

His parents know, and Bess is a perceptive and fierce mother. Even if no one talks about it openly, she'll be watchful over him and, I can't help but believe, take care of him when it raises its ugly head.

On 4/21/2020 at 7:40 AM, GussieK said:

 

 

On 4/21/2020 at 11:06 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

It's not clear on why Mrs. L gave that speech either. Unless she was just like, ok, enough is enough. I would have liked to have seen that development. 

My feeling all along with Mrs. Lindbergh was that she was wholly sympathetic to the Jews and what was going on. Admittedly, I was also waiting for the other shoe to drop and it'd turn out she was onside with her hubby, but, no, I think she was genuinely not onside with hubby on this issue all along.

On 4/21/2020 at 11:36 PM, scrb said:

For the sake of his wife and kids, he should regret not going.

He got beat up.  Now imagine having to worry about protecting his family from physical violence.

Weren't the borders closed by the time he decided to take the family to Canada? Perhaps he should've listened to Bess when she wanted to go earlier, but it's easy to realize you were wrong in hindsight. And I sympathize with his earlier expressed determination to not be driven out of his own country. There are more ways to fight for your country than leaving and picking up arms, Alvin. 

On 4/22/2020 at 1:07 AM, Cotypubby said:

So the rabbi’s story of the kidnapping was fake and was to show that he and Evelyn were delusional and in denial?

Seriously, Rabbi? You're gonna read The Trial now? But, yes, my take was the fake kidnapping story was itself fakety-fake-fake, as a way of his and Evelyn's trying to save face and dignity and station and... whatever else they lost in this whole mess.

On 4/22/2020 at 5:47 PM, Spartan Girl said:

I so wish Bess told Evelyn that she got Seldon's mom killed. Though I'm sure she would have clung to her willful ignorance.

Philip played a role in that, too. While Bess knows that, accusing Evelyn might bring Philip's part into the conversation and Bess would want to protect him in any way she could. It wouldn't have been worth any points she could've scored off Evelyn.

For me, Evelyn is the most pathetic character in this story. She's that in need of a man, of validation, of position, of.. whatever that she'd give up her own people, her own family to get and keep them? Not to mention her own sense of self. Was it just me or did anyone else think the Rabbi, and Evelyn herself, was trying to make her over into a copy of his first wife?

On 4/23/2020 at 10:01 AM, teddysmom said:

Did anyone else have flashbacks of the  personal belongings of the victims of the camps, when they showed the pile of shoes outside the store? 

Absolutely.

On 4/24/2020 at 7:24 PM, Marley said:

How can a First Lady call for a special election? How is that even possible.

I don't think she was asking in any official capacity, just expressing her opinion with a little added weight behind it, perhaps, as Lindbergh's wife.

On 4/25/2020 at 6:34 AM, Roseanna said:

 

All in all, while I think the series could've gone another ep or two and that some much-needed connective tissue ended up on the cutting room floor, I enjoyed this story and many of the performances very much. An interesting alternate take on history and a prescient one at that.

[Roseanna]

12 hours ago, Fellaway said:

Weren't the borders closed by the time he decided to take the family to Canada? Perhaps he should've listened to Bess when she wanted to go earlier, but it's easy to realize you were wrong in hindsight. And I sympathize with his earlier expressed determination to not be driven out of his own country. There are more ways to fight for your country than leaving and picking up arms, Alvin.

I agree. It's vain to regret a decision whose results could be known only in hindsight. 

Also, as far as understood, there was no plan of genocide in the US in the series. In that case, if all people had just left their country in adversity, the world would be a much worse place.

[Anela]

I don't know why I was hoping for a happy ending. 

That poor child. That phone call, and his being utterly sure that his mother wasn't coming home. Evelyn sold out her family, and friends, and I don't feel bad for them. They couldn't admit that they were wrong, they partied with Nazis.