S01.E07: Before a Fall

[Meredith Quill]

Episode Synopsis:

A return to before a kingdom is flamed.

[galaxychaser]

I didn’t read the books. I see this as a copy of game of thrones.

Ciri is something powerful.

Henry Cavill body/face magnificent. Daddy!

 

[Kasienka]

Oh that explained so much. So he was there the whole time! So close to Ciri! Timelines are finally converging! Geralt finally taking responsibility for his destiny. No Jaskier though, I hope they will reconcile before the season ends.

Didn't expect Yennefer looking for Istredd. I don't think she really loves him, I think she just assumed he still loves her and she needed someone right now. As soon as she heard Tissaia needs her she was back in Aretuza in no time. Instead of Yen's adventures with the adepts I would prefer more interaction with Triss, we don't even know how they met.  Either way it was nice to see all mages again (except you Stregobor) and meet some new ones. Vilgefortz definitely makes strong impression. Also what happened to Fringilla in Nilfgaard. It seems like there's some cult around the new Emperor, and since it's something new that wasn't in the books, I'm very curious where this is going.

And Ciri get's into trouble again. Her plot is the weakest part in the show. They just throw her from place to place and sometime something mystical happens like here, but it seems like they don't really know what to do with her.

[thuganomics85]

Stregobor (to the Vilgefortz, the new mage played by Mahesh Jahu from Marco Polo): "Look at you in your dumb armor!  Some mage you are!"

Tissaia: "Yeah, well at least he wasn't coward who murdered a whole bunch of babies."

Heh, sometimes I love how little fucks Tissaia gives.

 

Hmm.... Geralt actually did try to honor the "Law of Surprise", but he was betrayed by Calanthe and Eist, and locked up.  And he was actually there during the sacking of the kingdom.  So close to getting to Ciri!

Yen doing the whole "go back to the old high... err, mage school, and corrupting the youth with drugs, shit-talking the professors, and how none of it helps in real life."  Relatable!

Ciri's former gaming buddies are so going to get destroyed!

Hey, Triss and Yen apparently know each other!  I wonder if we'll learn more about this in the finale, or are they saving it for next season?  I guess I'll find out soon!

[WatchrTina]

 Ooooh, now that THAT was a satisfying reveal . . . the discovery that Geralt was THERE in the castle when it fell to invaders, and that Ciri's grandmother was going to hand Ciri over to him (finally!) so that he would take her to safety (as he wanted all along).  I love how the story has looped back upon itself.  Now we're only in one time-line, right?  We saw flash-backs to the start of the Ciri time-line but that only months before -- not years before (which is when the two other time-lines were set.)

Just as I was getting fed up with Ciri being grabbed by yet another group of people, she finally gets her freak on and taps into that inner power of hers.  I'm eager to see the next episode and see what the upshot of that is.

All that being said, I do feel sorry for the woman whose horse Ciri stole.  Except I recognize that actress from other work so I'm betting we'll see her again.  I wonder if that group of thugs (Ciri's former friends) actually work for the horse's owner.

Edited December 26, 2019 by WatchrTina

[DearEvette]

It is like the show decided 'Oh, wait..it is time for us to actually talk about the larger story in some detail now." this is probably the most story context We've seen in the entire series.  And it is the penultimate episode.  LOL.

No wonder people hate Calanthe.  She is kind of a trash person.  And a bad ruler to boot.  She was more concerned about her personal issues that those of her kingdom.  Even though I really hate that Stregebor, his pettiness was fun to watch.  Frankly, The best part of the episode was the Brotherhood round table.  Man they were catty little bitches.  Kinda funny too. Vilgefortz is all kinds of hot tho.

Sometimes it is hard to take Yennefer as this hardcore cynic seriously.  She looks about 12 years old sometimes.  Also, I wonder if permanent green eye shadow was part of Yen's magikal makeover?  I was really interested in seeing where her character would go in the beginning, but now her character and her bitter party of one just makes me tired.  And we still don't know why.  She acts like she was forced to do everything she did.  She takes no responsibility in her own fate at all.  And she has so little self awareness.  Oh sure, snark about Istredd being a 'man of principal.'  Bitch, you ensorcelled a town with orgies. GTFOH.

I wish the show had spent some time in Nilfgaard.  I would have loved to see that side of the the story.  Instead they trot out Fringiilla as their exposition fairy. Sigh.

I liked the timelines are getting  closer together.  And the revelation that Geralt was there during the sacking.

[nodorothyparker]

So we're finally getting close to having all the Big Characters in the same timeline?  There may be hope yet.

I too loved the reveal that Yennefer spitting to Geralt last episode about shirking his DESTINY (which, the way they talk about it feels like it should always be in all caps as it's apparently their version of the gods old and new or something of that ilk) apparently pushed him to decide yeah, okay, I probably should at least drop back into Cintra to check on that, especially after he just happened to see an army marching that direction.  And that it resulted in him being there if mostly out of the loop when the sacking of the city and resulting carnage happened.  Also continue to love how seriously all the men in this story take the whole Law of Surprise thing as a matter of course while Calenthe sees it as kind of a stupid shitty way of deciding anything, like oh say, the custody of her only heir.  It's hard to blame her too much under the circumstances for thinking so even if arguing the point has never seemed to work out well for her in the end.

We again get confirmation that Cintra hasn't been playing nice over the years with the big Not Hogwarts meetup almost unanimously voting to let them stand or fall on their own instead of intervening in the fight everyone sees coming with Nilfgaard.  I do wish the show had lingered a bit longer on the big table map to offer a better sense of the geography, but that meeting was about as delightfully bitchy as you'd expect a large gathering of wizards and mages to be.  Yes, show, we get it that Yennefer is bitter bitter bitter about what she perceived Not Hogwarts having taken from her or how it lied to her, but seriously does she not remember that the first time she popped in it was through a portal she'd unwittingly created to escape shitty villagers treating her badly?  How does she honestly believe her life would have turned out with her as she was had Not Howarts not intervened?  I also didn't get any sense that she truly loved Istredd (whose name I'm C&P as I always think of him as the guy dressed as a drum major in a cave first time we met him), but that she was looking for easy validation from someone who seemed to care about her before she was tranformed, even though he tells us here that she's been doing the wizard equivalent of not returning his calls for awhile.  But he's clearly got her number now too that what she really wants is power and is bitter bitter bitter that her efforts up to this point haven't achieved it.

After all the energy and EVIL we've seen expounded on chasing down the washed out princess, it's interesting to see the show have not one but a couple of characters make a point of telling us in separate scenes that Nilfgaard has been doing good stuff too.  It's too early to gauge whether that's a "well, yeah, but at least they made the trains run on time" sort of commentary or whether the show is making the effort to not portray this as LOTR with one side being the source of all goodness and light and the other populated by people who might as well be breeding in slime pits.  That it's already gone to some lengths to show us that Cintra wasn't quite the innocent in this has me hoping it's the latter.

I'm still going to need Ciri of the undiscernible eyebrows to do something other than shriek or flip her hair around to convince me that she's worth all of this trouble.

 

[DearEvette]

2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

it's interesting to see the show have not one but a couple of characters make a point of telling us in separate scenes that Nilfgaard has been doing good stuff too.  It's too early to gauge whether that's a "well, yeah, but at least they made the trains run on time" sort of commentary or whether the show is making the effort to not portray this as LOTR with one side being the source of all goodness and light and the other populated by people who might as well be breeding in slime pits.  That it's already gone to some lengths to show us that Cintra wasn't quite the innocent in this has me hoping it's the latter.

This is where I think the show ultimately fails for me.  It is where I think it stumbles at away from being really good story and just becomes a good spectacle.  I wish they had show us what is up with Nilfgaard.  It is baffling that the show would create a potentially fascinating subject and refuse to show it or use it in any calculable way except setting it up as a  plot object.

Instead of letting us watch a story or character arc unfold, we get throwaway dialogue and exposition characters they trot out to explain some stuff in a few sentences only to fade back into the background to get back to Yennefer's endless soul crisis  Ciri's endless wandering.  And since Nilfgaard and their march to domination seems important to Ciri and Geralt's destiny as well as possibly Yennefer and the mages as well, then it feels like a failure that we don't get to see why that is. 

[tennisgurl]

Oh my God, Geralt was there the whole time! Turns out that he actually did decide, after his fight with Yennefer, that he should at least go and check in on that kid he was kind of promised, but Calanthe and Eist imprisoned him so that he could never take her. This is what happens when you fuck with fate in this universe, it fucks you right back! Eists fatal flaw really is how much he loves Calanthe and trusts in her judgement no matter what, which leads to him supporting her less great choices and eventually he will follow her to his death. 

So now the timelines are converging, and its finally time for shit to get real! I feel like now we finally have more of an idea of what is going on here, what the stakes are, and some idea of what the plot going forward could be. Nilfgaard sounds like it has taken a real turn towards a sort of cult of personality/expansionist empire that is trying to take over the entire continent and spread the word of "the light" whether the other kingdoms want it or not. They seem to be showing Nilfgaard as maybe having some good sides to it, or that maybe this king started with the best of intentions but things got out of hand, but it is interesting that they dont seem to be totally evil, even if they do seem very cult-y. Well, their armies are also slaughtering masses of innocent people to impose their rule on people that dont seem to be too excited for it, so its hard for them to get too morally superior to the other kingdoms. 

Fun seeing more mages,ones we have seen before as well as some new ones, and the Brotherhood in their big meeting, what a catty bunch of bitches! Ugh Stregobor shut up. Yeah throw that shade at him and his anti baby crusade! I wonder if The Brotherhood used to be an all male organization at some point, and then later became mixed gender, and no one wanted to change their business cards? Or its more of a "brotherhood as name for close associates bound together" kind of thing, like the Brotherhood of Mutants from X-Men?

 

 

[Danny Franks]

The more we see of Calanthe, the less she looks like a ruler we should mourn. She knows Nilfgaard is about to attack, she knows Ciri is in danger, and she decides to lock up Geralt instead of accepting his assistance.

Why was she so set on believing Geralt would take Ciri away and never bring her back? And also, apparently, believing that Geralt was an idiot. But it was quite a cool revelation that Geralt was in Cintra as it fell.

Yennefer still mopey and trying to find meaning and/or love, still bitter about the choice she made yet not actually doing anything about it. Whatever. Her scenes are becoming a big old bore, for me. There was far too much of the episode about her. And I really didn't need a series of flashbacks to things that happened in episodes 2 and 3. My memory isn't that bad.

I did like the scene with all the mages, taking jabs at one another and bickering while trying to figure out how to keep things stable. Looks like they enjoy their power and influence rather too much.

Finally, we got something interesting from Ciri. Not sure what her powers are, but they're clearly the reason that Cintra kept all the mages away.

[paramitch]

Why does NOW feel like the series is finally getting started? Grr.

I appreciate the answers to questions (some), and the ways the timelines are converging, but seriously, for me it's bordering on too little, too late. 

I also realize (halfheartedly) that as a fantasy novelist and gaming blogger, this show just isn't for me (WHICH IS SACRILEGE). I can't believe I just typed that. Seriously. Many of my friends love this. But I don't. Haven't. And can't.

On 12/23/2019 at 10:13 AM, Kasienka said:

Didn't expect Yennefer looking for Istredd. I don't think she really loves him, I think she just assumed he still loves her and she needed someone right now. As soon as she heard Tissaia needs her she was back in Aretuza in no time. Instead of Yen's adventures with the adepts I would prefer more interaction with Triss, we don't even know how they met.  Either way it was nice to see all mages again (except you Stregobor) and meet some new ones. Vilgefortz definitely makes strong impression. Also what happened to Fringilla in Nilfgaard. It seems like there's some cult around the new Emperor, and since it's something new that wasn't in the books, I'm very curious where this is going.

I loved their scenes together, but I still feel the show doesn't know what was going on there itself.

Yen refused to admit he might love her. Istredd did love her. He was willing to change his life to do what she wanted. And she brushed it aside because she could not accept her imperfect self. 

I did love that he refused her here. Their last scene previously, she basically accused him of using her and without love, and that's not what I saw at all. He saw her beauty; he saw her true power and self. He may be the only person who did across this entire story. The only person who could not accept this was Yennefer.

As always, for me, the irony is that I adored their arc. They had great chemistry, it was unexpected, and I truly believed Istredd found her lovely and worth loving.

Yen instantly turned that to shit, in the farewell, so I loved his reaction here to a second chance going, "Um, thanks but no thanks," while still reiterating that he had loved her and found her special and worthwhile.

On 12/23/2019 at 8:12 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Yen doing the whole "go back to the old high... err, mage school, and corrupting the youth with drugs, shit-talking the professors, and how none of it helps in real life."  Relatable!

I hated this entire scene. Just more window-painting that Yennefer isn't a real character, just a construct of victimhood to equal easy rage for story purposes.

Iss saved her. Were her standards brutal? Yes. Were they more so than life? Hells, no. 

On 12/25/2019 at 6:08 PM, WatchrTina said:

 Ooooh, now that THAT was a satisfying reveal . . . the discovery that Geralt was THERE in the castle when it fell to invaders, and that Ciri's grandmother was going to hand Ciri over to him (finally!) so that he would take her to safety (as he wanted all along).  I love how the story has looped back upon itself.  Now we're only in one time-line, right?  We saw flash-backs to the start of the Ciri time-line but that only months before -- not years before (which is when the two other time-lines were set.)

It wasn't so for me. I was irked. The entire show was so confusing and nothing revelatory came out of any of it, except (maybe Yen's backstory) which could have been simple backflashes.

The timeline stuff is so unnecessary, especially in retrospect. I mean, just awful and awkward. Why? How laughable that he could have prevented so much death (and so, so much pointless running in the woods) if he'd just rescued Ciri ASAP?

On 12/29/2019 at 11:14 AM, nodorothyparker said:

I'm still going to need Ciri of the undiscernible eyebrows to do something other than shriek or flip her hair around to convince me that she's worth all of this trouble.

This entire story just feels like a waste to me at this point. I love fantasy; I am a fantasy writer. Seven episodes as a prologue (and not even a good one) just feels like a cheat to me.

On 12/29/2019 at 2:02 PM, DearEvette said:

This is where I think the show ultimately fails for me.  It is where I think it stumbles at away from being really good story and just becomes a good spectacle.  I wish they had show us what is up with Nilfgaard.  It is baffling that the show would create a potentially fascinating subject and refuse to show it or use it in any calculable way except setting it up as a  plot object.

Instead of letting us watch a story or character arc unfold, we get throwaway dialogue and exposition characters they trot out to explain some stuff in a few sentences only to fade back into the background to get back to Yennefer's endless soul crisis  Ciri's endless wandering.  And since Nilfgaard and their march to domination seems important to Ciri and Geralt's destiny as well as possibly Yennefer and the mages as well, then it feels like a failure that we don't get to see why that is. 

All of this. All of it. (boldface mine)

On 1/6/2020 at 6:17 AM, Danny Franks said:

The more we see of Calanthe, the less she looks like a ruler we should mourn. She knows Nilfgaard is about to attack, she knows Ciri is in danger, and she decides to lock up Geralt instead of accepting his assistance.

Why was she so set on believing Geralt would take Ciri away and never bring her back? And also, apparently, believing that Geralt was an idiot. But it was quite a cool revelation that Geralt was in Cintra as it fell.

I wanted so badly to like Calanthe, instead she was an idiot who caused the deaths of countless people because she (the smart "political" queen) couldn't conceive that Geralt was necessary or real? AGHGHGH. This show.

So far all I've seen is that the deaths of thousands could have been avoided except for the dreaded intrusion of the Idiot Plot, where a single discussion would have solved everything.

Edited January 13, 2020 by paramitch

[Jack Shaftoe]

12 hours ago, paramitch said:

I wanted so badly to like Calanthe, instead she was an idiot who caused the deaths of countless people because she (the smart "political" queen) couldn't conceive that Geralt was necessary or real? AGHGHGH. This show.

Not to mention she decided to give battle to Nilfgaard outside the city walls - while waiting for help to arrive from her allies. Also, reneging on the deal she had with Geralt means breaking her word and a ruler's word is extremely important in a feudal society. The entire system of governing hinges on people keeping their word. This wasn't the first time either - she first ordered Duny to be killed when he claimed the law of surprise in episode 4 and then tried to stab him herself (and her daughter somehow immediately forgave her). The show tried to convince us how badass how Calanthe was, the only thing it convinced me was that her country was better off with someone else in charge.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Jack Shaftoe

[Morrigan2575]

14 hours ago, paramitch said:

I wanted so badly to like Calanthe, instead she was an idiot who caused the deaths of countless people because she (the smart "political" queen) couldn't conceive that Geralt was necessary or real? AGHGHGH. This show.

Geralt had no intention of fighting her war with Nilfgard, all he wanted was to take Ciri and keep her safe.  If she had given Ciri to Geralt and, sent them away nothing would have changed, except Ciri/Geralt would have been together from the start instead of having to find each other.

Beyond that, I do agree.  I actually think Calanthe is a fascinating character in all her flaws.  She's arrogant, rude, lacks respect for laws and customs when it doesn't suit her desires. At the same time she loved her daughter, granddaughter and (2nd) husband fiercely.

I like to think that episode 1 Calanthe was viewed through the eyes of a loving/sheltered granddaughter.  Episode 4 Calanthe was arrogant and, at the height of her power (worst version, IMO), Episode 7 Calanthe was a combination of 1 and 4, she was arrogant and loving, protective and dismissive. 

I can kind of understand, how after Parvetta was lost at sea the idea of letting Ciri out of her sight, trusting someone else to protect her would be rejected.  Doesn't make her right and, she did defy destiny which seems to be a big no no but, I think her actions in episode 7 were more her devastation and guilt over losing Parvetta (coupled with her own arrogance) than just stupidity.

[SourK]

On 12/23/2019 at 11:12 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Yen doing the whole "go back to the old high... err, mage school, and corrupting the youth with drugs, shit-talking the professors, and how none of it helps in real life."  Relatable!

I really like the idea of Yennefer, and I think she's a more interesting character than Geralt, at least in the show, but I also find it kind of hilarious that the way she's been characterized so far is as the person who always fails escort quests and then teaches a bunch of teenagers how to make drugs.