Bessie

I think many of the ott comments are just another front in the shipper-fueled wars so they don't particularly bother me more than any of the other hateful comments I've heard about in the past. But I do want to inject a general thought into this conversation. It is a GOOD thing for donors to cast a critical eye on the organizations they fund. And if a t-shirt campaign raises more money per unit based on which company it is run through, then buyers of the shirt have every right to question why an organization would choose a company that offers lower percentages per shirt. Now, I have no idea if Creation t-shirts raise less money than Represent t-shirts, but if true, that's a legitimate issue for donors to raise with RA. That does NOT make it okay to accuse Collins or his charity of fraud. I also believe that if the Pack Fund is providing the majority of funding for the hotline, donors to that fund have every right to know it. They have the right to know where all of the funds are going. As do donors to YANA and RA. And I expect that non-profits involved with the hotlines will release either program funding sources or general funding sources with a budgetary breakdown. Although, frankly, I'm not sure why people care about whether YANA or the Pack Fund provided more funding. I know, I know, shipping wars. Whoever made the decision to base the publicity for the hotline around a cockles t-shirt campaign violated basic fundraising 101 rules: don't shrink your donor pool and don't generate any negative controversy. They did both. It was an easily avoidable snafu, so I'm not inclined to defend them on that one.

I'm surprised that Sam and Dean were written with such little care. Plus, they were both completely sidelined. I've got an idea for a spinoff - starring Sam and Dean Winchester!

As Supernatural winds down, my fervent wish is for the end of these fantastical mytharcs, which always seem to begin with the boys screwing up somehow and end with them being battered about and desperate so they are once again in a position to screw up so we can have the next big mytharc. It's become a never-ending cycle. I would like to see the backside of God, Amara and all the angels. (Cas can come down and visit on occasion.) Scale the mytharc down. Bring in some fresh new characters, use the bunker and all the knowledge it contains and go on the offense. Let the Supernatural world react to the Winchester brothers instead of the other way around. I just want a season of them kicking ass and being proactive as the mytharc.

I gotta go with Awesom0 on this one. It never even occurred to me that Dean viewed the amulet solely in terms of a god-seeking missile. It's really fascinating reading all these different interpretations! Bringing back the amulet was pure fan service. It was completely unnecessary. Knowing now, that it was Thompsons swan song, it makes more sense that it was in the episode.

I sort of thought the same thing, catrox. But I don't blame Jensen for sharing. I just hope he sent emails to the other people who made the episode possible, otherwise it's kind of a douchebag move. They work their asses off and the big WB exec only recognizes one of them? Not cool.

It's somewhat ironic that God seems to have such contempt/indifference toward Sam, given that Sam has always professed faith, hope and awe toward him. I mean he holds Sam solely accountable for what's going on with the darkness. He was around in seasons 4 and 5 and allowed them to play out in the worst way possible for Sam, while everyone else survived relatively unscathed, with His help. I wonder if this is intentional or not. I kinda hope they address this, not in depth or anything. It's probably just an unintentional commentary on faith. I'm sure Robbie didn't even consider it, but I find it fascinating. Or, maybe I'm just overthinking it.

I read some tweets that Jensen also said he believes Sam had the amulet the entire time. What does Jim Michaels do anyway? He didn't write the episode or direct it (I don't think) so why should he be the authority on where the amulet was all this time. ETA: I think the show is fine with fans debating it. It could be both. Sam had the amulet somewhere, but chuck put it in his pocket.

How do these guys afford a private plane? I know they do well, but I've always associated a private plane with people worth hundreds of millions of dollars or CEO of a company. Is this pap reliable?

Nancy Won wrote this episode? She is quickly becoming one of my favorite writers!

I really enjoyed it. I liked all the characters and thought the guest actors did a wonderful job. The only negative for me is that I like it as much as I did. I was expecting to be irritated that we were having a monster of the week episode at this point in the season but I really wasn't. It made me realize how much the resolution of the seasons long Mark of Cain storyline isn't something I'm anticipating as much as I thought. I was so worried about the hunter couple throughout the episode and was so relieved they were both okay. It made me happy that they got their happily ever after. It left me feeling something I haven't felt for a long time with this show: a sense of hope. Although I do think this may be foreshadowing Dean's death, so there's that.

I didn't think it was weird or surprising. I have a couple of friends and a lot of family members who, over the years, have taken time off from life in order to fight mental health issues. And, to a person, having to get back into their regular routines was one of the most difficult struggles they faced. Did they dread it? Absolutely. And going back to work was a huge hurdle. They were scared; some of them were embarrassed and ashamed. It's heartbreaking.

There's all kinds of things they could've done to have their 200th epi and continue the demon Dean story. Which is why I agree with Awesom0 that the writers didn't want to go to a seriously dark place with Dean and that's why it was over so quickly. And I'm good with that because I didn't want to see dark Dean. But if it's true that they weren't willing to take Dean to a dark place, they shouldn't have made him a demon in the first place. Because I do feel like viewers who were looking forward to that were cheated a little.

Me too. I've wanted a new character for a while, so I'm pretty excited about this! I'm hoping she'll be a true ally without any nefarious ulterior motives. A woman of letters would be excellent.

Sounds like the role could have regular status. Does anyone know if Collins or Shepard have signed contracts for next year?

I don't think you misunderstood. I can't remember Sam's reaction to Dean saying that so I don't know what his feelings are about it. There's no doubt in my mind that Sam will not be onboard with Dean as a vessel for lucifer just to save Cas. But if Dean takes on lucifer as some sort of larger plan to defeat Amara, then he might grudgingly go along with it. Ackles would likely do a great Lucifer. I think he'd go beyond mimicking Pelligrino and put his own spin on the character, so that's not my issue. I just hate the thought of Dean being tortured by Lucifer and Sam being tortured by the reality of Dean being locked up in the cage with lucifer all because of Cas's horrific decision-making abilities. If Lucifer is needed to stop Amara, I'd still hate it, but not as much as if the boys have to go through all that suffering to save Cas from himself.

I thought Sam was talking about Cas's vessel when he said "it" and not Cas himself. Actually, I thought that exchange between Dean and Sam was the pivotal moment in this episode. Dean wants to save Cas by shoving Lucifer into some other vessel. And who's going to be that vessel? Dean would never suggest that they use an innocent to save Cas, which means it's either going to be Sam or Dean. And Dean being Dean it sure as hell isn't going to be Sam. So I'm thinking if Dean truly believes the only way to save Cas is finding Lucifer another vessel, he's also thinking that vessel will have to be him.

I know some posters feel that Dean had nothing to do in Swan Song, which is exactly why I worded it the way I did. If Sam or Dean has a parallel role to Dean's in Swan Song, I'm fine with that. But I didn't think he did nothing.

I am in the enviable position of loving both main characters. As long as they're both present in the takedown of Amara and Lucifer, I don't care who gets the BDH moment. And, bonus for me, I won't have to stop watching the show! It wouldn't surprise me a bit if Cas got the BDH moment.

Here's another super unpopular opinion. Ackles did not make me feel Dean's pain at losing Sam in Red meat. Previously, when Sam has died Ackles has made me cry with his portrayal of Dean's reaction. Not last night. It may be because Sam's died so many times already or that I knew he was coming back to life. Whatever it was, I was disappointed.

I enjoy it when the boys learn something new about each other or gain insight into the other's perspective. I think the idea that they know everything about one another is a bit of a romantic notion. It didn't surprise me a bit that Dean was unaware of the extent of Sam's feelings of loneliness. As far as I know, Dean was either with Sam or John or both during most of his childhood. So he probably couldn't relate to Sam's feelings. That doesn't make him a bad person or a bad brother. It makes him human and I find it to be a realistic portrayal of adult siblings looking back on their experiences growing up.

I though Dean was more defensive than angry. I think he takes pride, rightly so, in being an awesome big brother. So he felt bad when he learned that Sam had periods of loneliness during his childhood. I loved this episode. I thought it did a fabulous job of interweaving serious, mytharc issues with lighthearted moments. I didn't think anything was retconned or out of character. That's a win, for me.

Misery poker. Some people love that game.

I would be fascinated to see where the show would go without Sam. It could go in a completely different direction with the introduction of a new partner for Dean. Or they could just move Cas into the bunker or pull Adam up from hell. Either one could be a replacement for Sam without changing the show much at all. Or they could add a romantic element for Dean, which would really change the original premise. Although, I would hope Sam would be gone for real. A season of Dean searching for Sam doesn't appeal to me at all. The impact on fandom would also be interesting. Ratings, conventions, social media etc. ETA: And it's not just the characters, but the possible storylines padalecki's departure could open up. The writers could have their spin-off without technically writing a spin-off because they would be in a position do drop the old formula. They could really explore heaven, they could make Dean a younger, hipper Bobby; teaching the next generation. There are so many directions they could go.

I've always wanted to go to a Renaissance Faire. They always look like so much fun!

Collins portrayal of Lucifer has really brought home to me the important role directors play. Badam seems to get the best out of him, while Wright (Devil in the Details) did him no favors at all. He still has his mugging moments which pull me right out of the scene, but I do think he's steadily improving. I hated Lucifer in this episode and I'm hopeful that it wasn't just because of the squick factor of puppy Crowley and the licking of the floor. I thought Wanek did an okay job directing Collins, but I also think some of that was because the Lucifer scenes were all with Crowley. Sheppard and Collins play off each other really well.