Bessie

The way Dean handled the angels always befuddled me a bit and it was never addressed on the show that I can recall. They put Dean in the position of playing the middleman with Sam and he mostly just accepted that role at face value. Sure, he talked a good game about the dick angels, but he pretty much went with the program. It never really made sense to me that Dean didn't suggest that they talk to Sam themselves and maybe provide a rationale for why Sam should stop doing what he was doing. "Because the angels said so" was about as likely to be successful as "because dad said so." And Dean knows this. It was obvious early on that the angels were up to no good and I hated how Dean was duped by them. I chalk it up to hell trauma combined with undeserved gratitude (although he didn't know it was undeserved at the time) for rescuing him from the pit. But it's one of the reasons I've never rewatched season 4 mytharc episodes. Both boys were snookered by nefarious forces.

Agreed. But, to my recollection, we have very few details of what happened. For all I know, Dean was out with friends or a girl when he was supposed to be watching Sam. Maybe that's why John felt Dean deserved to be ripped a new one. Its also the curse of the oldest sibling to be left with the responsibility for the younger ones when the parents are gone. On the one hand you're, "large and in charge", but on the other hand, you catch shit if anything goes wrong.

I think they both have their strengths and weaknesses, but overall, I find them to be solid at the craft. Not great, but competent. The only actor on the show whose acting negatively impacts how I view the character is Collins. Often, I have to remind myself that Cas is a gazillion-year old angel and not a person. The writing certainly doesn't help, but much of the problem, for me, is Collins' acting choices. He seems incapable of portraying Cas as a friend to the boys while maintaining his otherworldliness. His lucifer was laughable, although he improved a bit over time. I haven't enjoyed Castiel's story since Season 6. A lot of that is on the writers, but Collins doesn't help.

That would be an interesting convention question. I never once thought John was physically abusive toward Dean. But I don't doubt that viewers saw it differently. I'd love Ackles take on his performance in that episode and whether he wanted people to take away from it that John hit Dean.

It occurs to me that any judgement I make of John is based on the perspectives of his sons. That's not to dismiss them, but i think I'd enjoy an episode from his point of view. Without that, I feel like there's a huge missing piece when I try to understand him and his actions.

I agree that the show wants to establish Mary's bona fides as a hunter early on. But, if the show takes the viewpoint that it is Dean's decision to allow her to hunt, I will be a very unhappy viewer. While I understand that he will be concerned about her safety, as he should be, I do not want the show to imply that Mary's decision to hunt (or not hunt) is dependent on Dean's judgement. That he is the final arbiter of what Mary can and cannot do. No thank you.

I'm not a con goer and I had no idea it was like this. I can see why people are frustrated with creation. It appears that they want to wring every last cent out of fans. I really feel for those who can't afford the more expensive tickets. Are there any Supernatural cons not run by creation that you could go to? Either way, good luck, ahrtee!

I really do find it kind of hilarious. I mean we just wrapped up Dean's seasons- long dark arc. Comparing the endings of Sam's dark arc and Dean's dark arc kind of sums it up for me. Sam's trapped in a cage with two vengeful archangels in the darkest pits of hell for all eternity. Dean is suffering horribly but he's got Lisa and Ben to help him deal. Dean is fine and gets his much beloved mother back from the dead. Sam is suffering horribly (not knowing that Dean is fine), but he's got Cas to help him deal. Unfortunately, Cas goes *poof* and Sam is shot. I'm exaggerating a bit, I know. But I just have to laugh!

http://www.hypable.com/supernatural-women-nicki-aycox-rachel-miner-interview/ Interesting article! I would be thrilled to see either one of these actresses back on the show as Meg.

I think there is an element of "shouty" fans playing into this development, but I dont think it's solely responsible. I don't believe the show ever intended to drop its original premise of two brothers battling the Supernatural regardless of the fans. Sure, they'll bring in other characters, but no one was going to be in the backseat of the impala or living in the bunker on a permanent basis. The other variable is that J2 need time off, so having a couple of recurring characters with their own (or related) storylines made sense. The problem, as Aeryn13 notes, is that the writers have trouble integrating these characters organically into the main storyline. My belief is that they brought lucifer back and are keeping him alive to give Crowley and Castiel something to do. I think both of them are stale characters with little reason, story wise, to still be on the show. My wish is for both of them to have reduced roles (cause I do like them) and for the show to bring in new recurring characters who can be integrated more organically into the main story. Although, Cas and Crowley road tripping together has tons of comedic potential! It's entirely possible that I'll end up loving them as a duo. I'm just so relieved that the angel politics angle seems to be over.

I tend to agree with you on this. When was the last time the writers introduced a new character who stuck around for a couple seasons and was friends with the winchesters? Charlie, maybe? I can't remember.

I agree that it would've been better storytelling to create more relationships between the boys and other hunters. But I don't discount the hunter allies they've had who were John's old contacts. The thing is, the writers have killed off every single one of them except for the gay hunter couple, Garth and Eileen. (And I was holding my breath through those episodes thinking they'd be next.) Rufus, Bobby, Jo, Ellen, Charlie, Ash, Kevin - everyone who was on the front lines with them is dead. Except for Cas. I know this is sappy, but I really wanted the British MoL to be friendly allies. And maybe that will still happen. But then I think, if you're friends with the winchesters, you're pretty much dead. I'm honestly surprised that Jody and Donna are still around. Probably because they're on the periphery of the boys' lives.

Well, I was replying to MysteryGuest's post about the interactions between Mary and Cas so that's why I was discussing her reaction to Cas and not any other character. And I think she could be pissed at Castiel not that she will be. Nor that I want her to be. I just believe that if she knows the history between the boys and Cas, a less than warm reaction to him would be perfectly reasonable on her part. Honestly? I'd be far more interested in seeing her interact with Crowley and/or Rowena.

Yeah, but her opinion of him might be pretty damn low, depending on how much she knows. If she's a blank slate then I could see some fun scenes between her and Castiel, but if she knows what went down over the last eleven years, woo boy, she could be pissed.

The nastiness of Michaels tweet made me think there might be some history there. Maybe it is just insider chatter, but that tweet was mean-spirited. A bit of dancing on the grave going on by Michaels, I thought.

Regardless of how anyone feels about one brother over the other, I still maintain that I can figure out storylines and characters based on Dean's reactions to them. And I expect this trend to continue with Mary and ladywhateverhernameis. I don't like it and I wish the writers would stop telegraphing where they're going so early.

Agreed. But I'm not convinced that it was incompetence. Tell you the truth, I'm not sure why they didn't go there. Between demondean and MarkofCainDean they had every chance if they wanted to. Clearly, they never wanted Dean to be truly dark. I suspect it goes back to the origins of the show, which is Sam has demon-tainted blood and Dean doesn't, he's human. And everything that comes after is derived from this initial premise. And it's extended to whichever character and storylines are introduced. So his judgements on people and situations are representative of humans, whereas other characters are tainted in some way.

You know, Awesom04000, I think the writers handled Dean making the deal with a lot of sympathy. And I'm glad that they did. I want to root for the hero. But I do think this dynamic where Dean is generally right, and even when he's wrong it's handled in a very sympathetic way, was established earlier than Carver's era. To my mind, that's a good thing. I just wish they would extend the same courtesy to the other characters. And that the sympathy I feel toward one character didn't come at the expense of making the other characters look like jackasses.

You must've posted while I was editing. Sorry bout that! And I agree that there were no hidden meanings, but I didn't say there were. I should've been more explicit that, in my view, that episode encapsulates the dynamic I believe exists in the show.

Do you mean Bad Day at Black Rock? Because that was immediately what came to my mind. Sam has the rabbits foot, loses it in a stupid way and becomes a bumbling idiot. Dean gets it, is smart about it and is a ninja/James Bond hybrid who saves the day! Don't get me wrong, it's one of my favorite episodes, but it does sort of encapsulate the dynamic.

That's hilarious because it's so true. For me, it's at the level of such ridiculousness that it's become farce.

I'm sort of okay with Dean always being right. I wish it weren't showcased against the other characters always being wrong, but it is what it is and I think it's too late in the game for that to change. But it's become such a reliable indicator of how storylines, new characters etc. are going to turn out that it annoys me. Castiel, Crowley, Benny, Ruby, Charlie, Gadreel - their storylines, motivations, trustworthiness - it's all utterly predictable as soon as we're shown Dean's feelings about them. So as soon as we know what Dean thinks, we know the general direction of any new character or storyline. That is annoying. Mary and ladywhateverhernameis are two new characters for the upcoming season. And I get excited and think of all the directions they could explore with these two, but as soon as the season starts and I'm shown Dean interacting with them and how he feels about them, then I'll know where the show is going with them. It's a letdown. And I find it to be a serious weakness in the writing because it telegraphs outcomes so damn early.

Celebrity is such a strange thing. And censorship is a sticky wicket. People need to be held accountable for their own choices. And that includes celebrities and their fans. I think it was stupid for Padalecki to have posted the pic, beyond that I really can't judge because I have no idea what happened. But I do know that noone should be issuing death threats over this, no matter what happened. But to my mind that's on the people issuing them. Think about all the things we wouldn't know about if people censored themselves out of fear of causing a negative backlash. I'm not sure how far I'm comfortable going with telling celebrities to watch what they say in public. I understand the sentiment behind that idea, and to a certain extent I do agree, but where is the line drawn? Who gets to decide what is or isn't okay for them to comment on? Fans just have to make that decision themselves with their wallets, I suppose.

I think the show can really go either way when it comes to Mary's relationship with her son's. I do think that Dean tends to put her on a pedestal, which is completely predictable given that she died when he was only four years old. And I also think the show could go either way when it comes to whether or not Sam knows if Mary made a deal because they never provided evidence of that one way or the other. They can always claim that Sam does know and it happened offscreen or they can say that he was never told. They also never really explored how Dean felt about Mary making that deal. I think there are a lot of different ways this could go. But I do believe that the show has become primarily plot driven as opposed to character driven so they may not even touch on the deal Mary made.

I was just thinking that their wives are saints for putting up with all these cons they attend!