MaiLuna

I really enjoyed that episode. It flew by so that's a good sign. I loved JMo's acting and I liked how they included Rumpel as her inner voice. I liked that everyone cared about helping Emma. Except for Henry who was just chilling out, wth?. Snow was actually caring about her daughter! Zelena wasn't annoying and although Regina had some insensitive lines at the beginning, overall I tolerated her in this episode so that's good. I don't like that they made Hook screw up but at least Regina was smart and didn't gloat afterwards. Captain Swan are so adorable. I enjoyed all the Captain Cobra as well. I think DarkSwan was putting on an act at the end and I wonder if that's the real dagger she has. The scene where she gave Regina the dagger made sense except for the fact where Regina would become the Dark One. Didn't you do this to stop that from happening in the first place? I hope they can pull the amnesia off for once. I didn't like that Emma was going to be the Dark One, but now I'm seeing the potential. It was very weird that Emma crushing Merida's heart was so wrong when Merida shot first and multiple times. I think the thing was that she wasn't killing her for trying to kill her but rather because of the will-o-wisp, though based on Emma's reaction it was the arrow that made her snap. The scenery was very pretty too. Arthur doesn't seem likeable yet, he seems shady.

Oh yeah, they mentioned hope so many times. If you're a criminal, it may give you hope. But if you're a good person, this show is kind of depressing since the good guys keep getting screwed.

So, the Dark Swan Rises special. I enjoyed it until all the Regina parts. And Emma's "fan favorite" scene being the one in 4.01 through the door with Regina. And A&E's comments about them! Good thing my desk is made of carob, which is very heavy.

We don't have to know it, but it's fun to get the references and see what kind of changes they've made to the original story.

Almost everyone here seems to really know Arthurian mythology and I know nearly nothing. What movies would you recommend for beginners like me?

That's true that they don't care about anyone but Regina. Regina actually abuses Emma, and that's "romantic". Then CSers are the ones that are messed up for shipping CS, but they ship a ship whose most "romantic" episode is one where Regina verbally abuses Emma all the way through. I brought up misandry because I've seen Hook & Robin being referred to as beards or just "penises" multiple times. That Emma is just trying to prove her "straightness" to her parents by wearing a dress on her date with Hook (and then they use those pics to make a manip about Emma going on the date with Regina). Hook "abused" Emma when he stopped her from trying to walk away in 4.03 but the scene where Emma and Regina fight each other on 1.22 is used on manips as "hot". That Emma & Regina are not strong women because they are happy with men, and then they make fanfic/fanart about each other being their happy ending. It's wrong for a "strong" woman to be happy with a man, but it's ok if it's with another woman. Why they just can't see a person and not genders it's beyond me, specially since they think the reason SQ can't happen is because of their genders. The writers are gender-hating by "writing SQ as an obvious romance" but can't go through with it because of their gender. But God forbid Emma & Regina are happy with men (just because of their gender, because it's totally ok if it's a woman that's their happy ending). It comes off as misandry but really I think they find any excuse to make SQ a justice war. With Neal, some people bash on him to support their "misandrist" agenda, and some don't care anymore because he's no longer alive so he's not a "threat" to SQ. That is painfully true, but we don't harass and insult people over it. I've never seen anyone here call each other homophofic, racist, stupid or refer to JMo as "GayMo". That's the difference. We do obsess though, because how many times can we bring up Regina's faults? :P

That's because her victim was a man, and most of these people are misandrists.

I think it was the fact that Regina had actually made the right thing for the first time. She let Emma and Mary Margaret come back. And the writers have this theory that once you do ONE heroic thing (when in reality most of the times it's just stopping what you did wrong) then all of your past crimes must be forgotten and forgiven.

My username is just part of my real name. It was my username in TWoP too so I didn't want to change it either. My icon is Emma cutting down Regina's apple tree because I like to remember when she was doing that instead of what we got on season 4. I've always loved your icon! (I'm Argentinian)

Yeah, I guess "good is born" is about right. The villains are justified for being evil by having a tragic backstory, but the heroes aren't congratulated on not becoming evil when also having a horrible past. So it's not a choice apparently. You're just made evil by bad events in your life though some people aren't made evil for their bad events because of reasons. Snow had her mother murdered, her father murdered, her stepmother trying to kill her and her loved ones, her whole kingdom cursed, her daughter taken away, her nanny murdered right in front of her after she did what told to save her life; but when she kills the woman who killed her mom and her nanny and was about to kill her and her whole family, she's villanized for that. The villains are allowed to act evil because of their tragic pasts, but Snow's past is one of the worst and still she's not allowed to act on self-defense. Regina was abused by her mother, and then had her fiance killed by her, which yes, it's horrible. But still she's allowed to try and kill the girl who accidentally and with no bad intention told her mother about her fiance and who really loved Regina. She's also allowed to: enslave people, murder entire villages, send children to their death to curse her stepdaughter, rape a man for 3 decades, curse an entire kingdom, gaslight her son, try to kill her son's mother AND say she hasn't regretted ANY of it. But she's still the victim. I'd buy Regina's redemption if she regretted her actions, apologized and try to make some things right where she can. If at least she had stopped bad actions altogether. Let's remember that Regina worked "too hard" to have her happiness destroyed on S4 by: -Planning to kill Marian -Enslaving Sidney -Stealing Belle's heart -Yelling at Pinocchio and then helping kidnap him -Sleeping with a married man while his wife is in a coma-like state -Trying to erase Zelena and her baby's from existence Hook, for example, hasn't really apologized and shown to regret his actions that much either, but he doesn't feel entitled and victimized, and Belle's not helping him get his happy ending. But even when his crimes were less than Regina's, the Charmings still think he could become evil again just because he was trying to help Ursula, but Regina's completely trusted to go undercover with the 3 QoD. When I think of this, I try to think what goes on A&E's mind and if they really realize what goes on in their show. It's like stopping to murder people it's a great redemption arc. But it's not just A&E, the audience actually buys it, and thinks "poor Regina". I can't even believe the things I've seen on Tumblr: -A post about Gepetto screaming to Regina about her crimes. She needed to be "protected" because people wouldn't forget about her crimes and kept bringing them up. If the worst consequence you have for being a serial killer is someone bringing up your crimes or calling you even like once a month, that's like the best deal you can get. In real life you'd be in prison for life or even executed. But she's still free, alive, and has her biggest victims helping her get her happy ending, and she's being allowed to be the MAYOR of the kingdom/town she cursed and terrorized. But God forbid she should be reminded of the pain she caused. She must have no consequences at all, even if she has no guilt or regret. I'd love to ask these people if they'd help and defend a person who has killed their loved ones and multiple other people and tried to kill them. If they wouldn't want them to go to jail and if they'd let them be a political figure even when they said they didn't regret any of it. An unrepentant serial killer as mayor who has served no time and nobody is even allowed to criticize. Nobody really thinks of that or puts themselves in the place of the victims and on the show most of the time the POV of the victim isn't even shown. -A post about Snow deserving to have lost Emma because she rejected Maleficent's proposal in Unforgiven. At that point we didn't know what Snowing had really done, and the poster thought that just because Snow didn't want to work with someone who had killed 3 people for no good reason that same day; that because Maleficent had asked for help and she refused because she didn't like her evil methods (let's not forget that Snow was still going to try and stop the curse, and if she had succeeded she would've saved Mal and her baby too) it was only karma that she had to give up Emma. And that post had over 500 notes! -Multiple posts about how evil Snowing/Emma/Belle are for getting Rumpel's dagger in case he tries to kill them, because they're taking away his free will. (Don't wear a bulletproof vest because the killer may fail on his intention of shooting you to death!) How they never help him, even though helping him is what caused Emma to become the Dark One. I wouldn't mind Regina's character if she was portrayed as she is: a hypocritical, self-righteous sociopath. It'd be interesting that way. I also hate the fact that Emma and Snow (and the whole town) forgiving Regina should speak well of them but it doesn't. Emma & Snow are so forgiving that they are willing to forgive and help the woman who has tried to kill them several times. But that's not how it's portrayed. It's portrayed like E&S have the OBLIGATION to help Regina. Regina, who is their attempted murderer, can reject their calls for help but her victims can't make her wait to help her. So for a lot of the fandom: -Being a unrepentant serial killer/rapist: it's cool, understandable, interesting (which this could be IMO if just portrayed right), fun, badass. -Being good and making a couple of mistakes after having a much shittier life makes you: boring, a whiner, a hypocrite, stupid. For me it's more badass and interesting and "resilient" to still be good and kind after having a bad life than it is to resort to murder. Being good 97% of the time and making some mistakes makes you a hypocrite but being evil 97% of the time and then stop killing for 3 months at a time makes you a hero. Got it. Great morality for a "family show". But they portray it in a way that most viewers accept it and also the media, because I've never seen an interviewer bringing this up. 4.05 is portrayed as friendship and for some SQ fans as super romantic. But if I crack-shipped SQ, I think I'd like episodes like 3.13 and I'd hate 4.05. It's like if, as a CS shipper, my favorite episode was The Queen is Dead, when Hook shoves Emma against the wall and then Emma knocks him out with a fire extinguisher. So I'd call A&E not "masters of storytelling" but masters of brainwashing. ETA: Shanna Marie: It seems, like you point out in your post, except for Archie, it's all about your parents. You have bad parents: you're a villain (Regina, Rumpel, Hook, Cora, Zelena [though Zelena had a good adoptive mother, her biological parents and adoptive dad were bad - same with Regina and Henry. One bad parent will do the job.]. You have good parents: you're a hero. Emma didn't have parents until she was 28 but her biological parents were good. Snow, David and Belle had good parents, that's why they're heroes. Ashley had a bad stepmother but her parents were good until they died. It seems it all comes down to daddy and mommy issues and goodness/evil is genetic.

Episode 3 title : "Siege Perilous"

New ET interview with a couple of new videos from the cast at Comic Con

Cast describes the season premiere in 2 words

New video from Comic-Con. I love this cast. ETA: And another one from TVGuide.

I realized the other day that as closed off as Emma is, in the last 2 seasons (about and year and a half on the show?) she has said ILY to 3 different guys. So she's not really that closed off. I mean, she had 11 years of false memories for one of those times, but still, I thought it was interesting.

At the end of that scene, are those swan noises? I'm not very familiar with swans. That makes much more sense, LOL. It just seemed like they were looking around.

Here's the video interview with Jen & Colin where all of those quotes and some more come from.

I'm a bit disappointed that apparently like Emma won't be mad about her past and the people who have wronged her and her family. Regina's crimes but be ignored and forgotten at all costs! I would love to see Emma dealing with her past more now that she has not restraint, so we can really see how she feels and what's stuck with her.

I'm excited that all of them are in Camelot. It sounds like it could be a fun adventure, though I hope the quest isn't again just looking for someone. I don't want the Dark Swan storyline to last the whole season mostly because I don't want the 100th episode to have a dark Emma :(

I hate what Captain Swan does to me. I wasn't so excited about this season with Emma being the DO and all the spoilers about Regina maybe being the new savior, and Zelena and Robin being regulars...and then I see a picture of Emma and Hook with their arms linked and I'm a goner again. They like save the show for me.

Yes, I think that's why she did it, but not the only reason. If it had been let's say, Archie, Emma would've saved him too, but based on the fact that she's the saviour and she saves people and it's the heroic thing to do. That's what she would've done for Regina a couple of seasons ago too. Emma saw the darkness and she said they had to tether the darkness, which was attacking Regina, she didn't say "oh we have to save Regina specifically". Regina was in danger and Emma chose to save her. Regina is her friend and she promised to give her her happy ending. When Regina tried to stop her, she brought out her happiness because she didn't want Regina to lose that. She had promised Regina to help her and she did, but that doesn't mean she didn't think of anyone else. Back in seasons 1&2 she saved Regina too, it just wasn't based on friendship or a promise she made to her, it was just because Emma is like that. Eddy was talking about earning their happy ending and that's why Regina's happiness and Emma's sacrifice means something more this time since it wasn't just because Emma was a good person that she saved her, it was different than before. She asked her parents to help take the darkness out of her again so it's not like she planned sacrificing for Regina and screwing everyone else. That's true too, but it was especially Regina because she was the one being attacked. It couldn't have been especially for anyone else.

I think both can be true. Jen said she did it to save everyone in front of A&E and they didn't correct her. She did it for everyone, including Regina since she told her so because she'd worked too hard for her happy ending (I mean, she only attempted murder this season). She was the target at the moment so yes, she did it to save Regina from dying right there and then but the darkness would've kept going so it was also for the whole town. If she had arrived too late for Regina or if it'd been anyone else, she'd have done it too. The sacrifice was for Regina but not only for her. She was just the first the darkness targeted.

That makes even more sense when we remember that she got arrested because of Neal on the same day she told him she loved him.

Here's the whole OUAT panel

Another one with Jen & Colin