tv echo

Speaking for myself, when I talk about Tina as an Oliver love interest, I'm only speculating or giving an opinion (or joking). I certainly don't know at this point.

Black Siren: "No, because on my world, you've been dead for 10 years now. I moved to Central City for a fresh start. That's where this happened, and from then, it was just one bad choice after another, and I guess once you let the darkness inside, it never comes out, and now I am trapped in a parallel dimension, telling my sob story to... the doppelganger of the man that - that I loved." I guess we're supposed to believe - and the premise of a possible Black Siren redemption story and Oliver's belief in her - is that different circumstances led to E2 Laurel becoming a villain. E2 Oliver actually died. Because of her heartbreak over losing the man she loved, E2 Laurel moved to Central City, got the metahuman power, and turned bad. Here's my problem with that theory - the circumstances weren't different during the relevant time period. For five years, both E1 Laurel and E2 Laurel believed that Oliver was dead. But they reacted differently. Heartbreak didn't lead E1 Laurel to move to Central City for a fresh start. Instead, she stayed in Starling City and became a CNRI lawyer. If they're the same, shouldn't the two Laurels react the same to the same heartbreak? Unless they're saying that E2 Laurel didn't move to Central City until her Oliver was dead for 6 or 7 years (right before the Star Labs explosion)? But why would that make a difference? When we first saw E1 Laurel, Oliver had been 'dead' for five years, but she seemed to have accepted his death, had a good job with work friends, and was even dating Tommy. E2 Laurel is not the same as E1 Laurel. Therefore, she made different choices from the start.

Allison Brennan and Lavinia Kent analyze 'Arrow' episode 'Who are you?': Another gut-twisting hour By: Allison Brennan and Lavinia Kent | January 27, 2017 6:00 pm http://happyeverafter.usatoday.com/2017/01/27/allison-brennan-lavinia-kent-arrow-recap-who-are-you/

‘Arrow’ Review: “Who Are You?” Yvonne January 27, 2017 http://www.theworkprint.com/arrow-review-who-are-you/123

I missed finding this article last December... The Arrow Writers’ Felicity Amnesia Annie Worsman December 17, 2016 http://talknerdywithus.com/2016/12/17/the-arrow-writers-felicity-amnesia/

Back from the Dead: Arrow 5x10 Olicity Heart-to-Heart MARILYN PORTER January 26, 2017 http://www.heroesandheartbreakers.com/blogs/2017/01/arrow-season-5-episode-10-olicity-heart-to-heart Arrow 5x10 Review: "Who Are You?" (I Really Wanna Know) Just About Write Jan. 27, 2017 http://www.itsjustaboutwrite.com/2017/01/arrow-5x10-review-who-are-you-i-really.html

'Arrow' Recap: Can the Team Trust the Return of Laurel Lance? Derek Stauffer January 25, 2017 http://www.buddytv.com/articles/arrow/arrow-winter-premiere-recap-th-62959.aspx Why Black Siren Should Be the New Black Canary on 'Arrow' Derek Stauffer January 26, 2017 http://www.buddytv.com/articles/arrow/why-black-siren-should-be-the-62964.aspx

Natalie Abrams' comments on 510... Arrow ushers in new Black Canary as Laurel's true fate revealed NATALIE ABRAMS JANUARY 25, 2017 AT 9:04PM EST http://ew.com/tv/2017/01/25/arrow-laurel-black-canary/

S4 demo ratings also stayed at around 1.0 until after 4x15... http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/arrow-season-four-ratings-38484/ But from past EP comments, it sounds like they never took the BMD complaints seriously. However, if a show is midway through its current season, then maybe it's time to stop blaming low ratings on whatever happened in previous season(s) and time to start thinking that maybe the problem is the current season.

We Need Arrow’s “Olicity” Back Together — Now. Rachel Carter - JANUARY 27, 2017 http://booktrib.com/2017/01/we-need-arrows-olicity-back-together-now/ 1. It Makes Sense for the Story 2. The Ratings 3. Oliver Just Can’t Forget Her 4. That Chemistry! 5. They Make Each Other Better

Here's WM's spoiler about Rory... Just kidding (mostly)... S1 Oliver - "I am the Hood and a killer." S2 Oliver - "I am the Arrow and not a killer." S3 Oliver - "I can only be the Arrow... Not." S4 Oliver - "I can be both Oliver Queen and the Green Arrow... Not." S5 Oliver - "I can be both Mayor Queen and the Green Arrow...(?)" S6 Oliver - "Do I want to be with bff blonde Betty Felicity or sexy new brunette Veronica Tina?"

510 discussion starts at 1:07 mark (I'm kinda 'huh?' on Craig's love triangle comments)... Agents of GEEK Podcast Craig Wack & Tatiana Torres 01/26/2017 http://agentsofgeekpodcast.com/wordpress/ -- Craig thought that, although the story was "well-crafted" and "the action was nice," he didn't like the episode. Tatiana had "mixed feelings" about the episode. She couldn't love it "because Laurel was a large part of this episode, whether she's hashtag our Laurel or regular - I don't give a shit - too much Laurel." But Tatiana didn't necessarily not like it, but she felt like "there was something missing". Still, she didn't think it was the worst episode of Arrow. -- Craig said that he didn't think it was the worst episode, but "75% of it is because it's a Laurel episode... and so much of it is concentrated on that 11th hour element that they did with her." Craig then noted that "we got 4.89 seasons worth of, like, Laurel disliking Ollie or, you know, Ollie's various alter egos and doing things, like, out of spite to Ollie." -- Tatiana: "I don't understand why Laurel is supposed to be this great figure that we have remorse for or are sad for all the time. She was the worst! She was mean. She never listened to you. She used to take pot shots at you when you were going through shit because, like, Tommy died and somehow that was all your fault, even though clearly his father killed him and they were all awful before Ollie came back. Like, I don't - that is the one thing that I will never understand. Laurel was not a good person." -- Craig: "Right. And the writers, from a character point of view, could never really knew what to do with her... First she started out as a defense attorney and that lasted all of the pilot. Then suddenly it's like, oh well, she's a - she's a prosecutor now. And then, you know, that really didn't go anywhere. So they, you know - okay, Tommy died so we're going to make her an addict. That'll maybe give her some depth... And they never really let Laurel have a win, you know, an out-and-out win.... Even when she became a hero, the running joke was... the bad guys always got the drop on her and then whoever happened to be driving the black van, you know, came in, you know, from off-screen to hit said person who had Laurel dead to rights with their shotgun, rifle, axe, whatever-the-hell it was. And the scene that totally sums up Laurel's experience on Arrow - and it was, I think, in season 3... in fact, it was the boxing glove arrow episode - she actually has a scene where she's driving a car, she's got Wild Cat next to her, and like bad guy du jour is in the back or something, and... for some reason bad guy gets in the front of the car. And she... spins the wheel and does this awesome 360 maneuver that throws the guy off the car. Then they cut away to him landing on the ground or Ollie jumping on him to beat on him or whatever. And then when they come back, you know, Laurel is so overcome by going in a tight circle, she passes out and runs into the only car that is on this road... And it's like 'what?' And she goes to the hospital and she goes to the bed that she would eventually die in, but it's just - it's just like they had this moment where she coulda done bad - something badass, she coulda like parked the car, but it's like nope, nope, she had to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory and crash into a car." -- Craig: "So this is what has shaded my watching of this episode. And even though it isn't actual Laurel, the whole thing - Ollie is holding onto the alien dream that he had where everything is great." Tatiana interjected that she had to give Oliver some credit because his life is "sucky right now" so he's grasping straws. -- Craig said that Oliver's "fighting so hard for the affections of a dead woman," but when Oliver broke up with Felicity, he was like, "oh okay, but are you still going to make coffee for me though?" Tatiana disagreed and said, "No, he was sad!" She mentioned the fake wedding last season. She thought that Oliver "has steeled himself off" when it comes to Felicity because "he already knows how much it has already hurt both of them." Craig felt like Oliver has just given up on that relationship with Felicity. Tatiana noted that Oliver seemed still to have feelings for Felicity at the beginning of the season, but she was dating the "random dude" at the time, so Oliver started flirting with the "lying reporter." Tatiana also noted that the reporter wasn't even in this episode at all, even though she was in that trailer: "You know, 'who you love,' and I was like, 'what the f**k?!'" -- Craig pointed out that this was just like when Oliver went to get comfort from Lying Reporter right after he had killed Felicity's boyfriend and now, when her boyfriend's body was still warm, Oliver was going up to Black Siren and going, "Hey baby, what's up?" Tatiana disagreed and said it was more like Oliver seeing a chance at redemption. -- Tatiana then wanted to focus on "how badass Felicity was." Craig noted that Felicity did break down a little in this episode, but Tatiana reminded him that her boyfriend had just died. Craig did like the "Hey, pumpkin" line and punch. Craig said that "Oliver was kinda mopey and lovesick and trying to figure out what he had from Black Siren," but Felicity "had her eyes on the prize and was like, 'yeah, I'm not believing a thing this chick says,'" so Felicity was focused on finding Prometheus because "after all, that's what we're here for." Tatiana liked that, when Oliver called out Felicity for going against his orders, she was like, "f**k this" and stood up for herself, and she took all these steps herself because it was the right thing to do. Tatiana: "There was no wishy-washiness to her, for the most part this week, and I really like that." Craig: "No, there was no indecision at all." -- Tatiana thought that near the end of the episode, there was maybe "baby steps" toward making us think that "Olicity might happen again down the line, but... not any time soon." Tatiana mentioned a tweeter who said that, if Olicity happens again, "it must be with this Felicity." Tatiana said to remember when Olicity was together, Felicity became someone who was only "an agent of the relationship." Craig agreed: "She became as weepy as Barry." Tatiana agreed and said that, if they ever go back to Olicity, Felicity needs to be this badass Felicity and also Oliver can't go back to being dark, brooding, lying Oliver. Craig agreed and said Oliver can't go back to keeping secrets from Felicity. Tatiana said that they must both be adults, which "is not popular in the Berlanti-verse." -- Craig was concerned that, since Oliver is keeping Black Siren "handy" at ARGUS prison, if there is a S6 or even farther down the road this season, if "this substitute Canary they're trying to find in Hub City next episode doesn't work out," there's that "Black Siren redemption story they're holding on in their back pocket." Tatiana: "Gosh, I hope not." Tatiana said that there's no redemption on Arrow - Malcolm wasn't redeemed, Diggle's brother wasn't redeemed - "When you're bad, you're f**kin' bad." Craig said that if it just keeps Oliver a little optimistic (like Felicity said), then he's okay with that, but if they keep going with the part where "Oliver keeps dreaming" of Laurel because they need reasons to keep bringing KC back on the show, then he's "not a huge fan of that idea" and he's "not a huge fan of the Black Siren redemption story" because she "has a completely different life experience... so any hope that she's even remotely close" to the Earth-1 Laurel Lance "is just infinitesimally possible." -- Tatiana thought that Curtis was "a worse superhero than Laurel." Craig liked that Curtis was going to be a "tech hero rather than a beat-em-up hero." Tatiana noted that when Laurel lost, "she would just get mad and pretend she didn't lose," but when Curtis loses, he's like, "I'm the worst, I'm going to go cry for an hour." Both Tatiana and Craig liked the bonding between Curtis and Wild Dog. -- What bothered Craig the most in this episode was the "Oliver-Felicity-Black Siren love triangle" and creating an 11th hour "relationship that wasn't there." He also noted that the only times we saw Laurel "carrying a torch" for Oliver were in flashbacks. Tatiana also was bothered by the ret-conning of Laurel and said that if anyone disagrees, they should go back and watch the last four seasons: "She's not nice and she's frequently outright mean and evil to Oliver, even when they're on the same f**king team. It's not until the last few episodes that she's like, 'oh, I'm going to work with Oliver, yeah!'" -- Craig noted that "it's not like we never spent any private time with Laurel, we did, but it was always to reinforce the fact that she is this - you know, grab bag of character flaws... oh, she's hanging out alone in her apartment... oh, she's taking a handful of pill and chasing them with wine... that's what we found out about Laurel in her private time. Even though she had a big spat with Oliver, she's still, like, holding on to her little precious picture that she's allegedly carrying with her." Tatiana: "That's getting old in the show, by the way. We get it. He had the photo. I doubt it went with him from the island, everywhere, in every flashback. Stop it." -- Regarding the ending scene with Tina, Craig: "I'm not exactly sold on, you know, suddenly there's this person with the exact same powers as Canary hanging out in Hub City... that we have never seen or heard before" Tatiana: "That was weird... But these seemed more like metahuman, like natural powers." Arrow Review: Ollie Shows a Newfound Sentimental Side BY CRAIG WACK · JANUARY 26, 2017 http://oohlo.com/2017/01/26/arrow-review-ollie-shows-a-newfound-sentimental-side/

I had forgotten about that, so thanks! Olicity 3x17 "I know him better than almost anyone." Published on Mar 25, 2015,by Sofia Ghauri You mean like Tina? So Oliver will always carry a part of Laurel with him? (Just kidding... mostly) ;)

I posted this article in the Social Media thread because it's mostly non-spoilery bio stuff on Beth Schwartz, but it did contain this spoiler: So I'm guessing Rory and 512/513?

This Week’s Arrow Marks The Return Of Laurel Lance To Star City In “Who Are You?” Verena Cote January 26, 2017 http://www.4ye.co.uk/2017/01/this-weeks-arrow-marks-the-return-of-laurel-lance-to-star-city-in-who-are-you/

Arrow Season 5 Episode 10 Review: Who Are You? Jim Dandy Jan. 25, 2017 http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/arrow/261750/arrow-season-5-episode-10-review-who-are-you

Evil Laurel, Curtis' crisis, a new Canary (?!) and Felicity gets a KO in the latest Arrow Trent Moore Thu, Jan 26, 2017 7:00am http://www.blastr.com/2017-1-26/evil-laurel-curtis-crisis-new-canary-and-felicity-gets-ko-latest-arrow

I disagree with the Felicity comments... Arrow “Who Are You?” Review (Season 5, Episode 10) Jessica Breaux January 26, 2017 http://www.tvequals.com/2017/01/26/arrow-who-are-you-review-season-5-episode-10/

The Arrow Mid-Season Premiere: They Sure Didn’t Wait Long to Answer “Who Are You?” Posted on January 26, 2017 by Kelly Konda https://weminoredinfilm.com/2017/01/26/the-arrow-mid-season-premiere-they-sure-didnt-wait-long-to-answer-who-are-you/

Posting here because it's about Oliver's relationships (no spoilers) - MG apparently recognizes the inconsistency of how they deal with relationships in the Arrowverse and that it's plot-driven... Arrow: Can Green Arrow Have a Love Life? Marc Guggenheim Answers Jenna Anderson January 25, 2017 http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/01/26/arrow-oliver-queen-love-life/

‘Arrow’ Recap: And Black Canary’s Secret Is... Robert Chan January 26, 2017 https://www.yahoo.com/tv/arrow-recap-and-black-canarys-secret-is-121432221.html

Posting here because it's about Beth Schwartz, Arrow's Co-Executive Producer, and has some interesting b-t-s stuff... BULLSEYE! January 24, 2017 https://www.thejewishnews.com/2017/01/24/bullseye/

I will not say anything mean, I will not say anything mean... ARROW: "WHO ARE YOU?" REVIEW JESSE SCHEEDEN 25 JAN 2017 http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/01/26/arrow-who-are-you-review

Updated Arrow social media listing for the remainder of S5... Official CW Arrow https://twitter.com/CW_Arrow https://www.facebook.com/CWArrow http://thecwarrow.tumblr.com/ https://instagram.com/cw_arrow/ Arrow Writers Room https://twitter.com/arrowwriters Arrow Production Office https://twitter.com/ArrowProdOffice Greg Berlanti https://twitter.com/GBerlanti Andrew Kreisberg https://twitter.com/AJKreisberg Marc Guggenheim https://twitter.com/mguggenheim http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/ Wendy Mericle https://twitter.com/MericlesHappen Brian Ford Sullivan (Arrow Executive Story Editor) http://www.twitter.com/briforsul Beth Schwartz (Arrow Co-Executive Producer) https://twitter.com/SchwartzApprovd Ben Sokolowski (Arrow producer/writer) https://twitter.com/BenAltwriter James Bamford (Arrow stunt coordinator/director) https://twitter.com/JamesBamford https://www.instagram.com/james2bambamford Corey Robson (Arrow cinematographer) https://twitter.com/coreyrobson Blake Neely (Arrow composer/conductor) https://twitter.com/cowonthewall Andy Poon (Arrow concept illustrator) https://twitter.com/andypoondesign Danielle Fowler (Arrow make-up) https://twitter.com/daniellejfowler Cayley Giene (Arrow make-up effects lab technician) https://twitter.com/cayleymua https://www.instagram.com/cayleymua/ Stephen Amell https://twitter.com/stephenamell https://www.facebook.com/stephenamell https://www.instagram.com/stephenamell/ Emily Bett Rickards https://twitter.com/emilybett https://www.facebook.com/emilybettrickards/ http://instagram.com/emilybett David Ramsey https://twitter.com/david_ramsey https://www.facebook.com/David-Ramsey-82284064297/ http://instagram.com/davidpaulramsey Willa Holland https://twitter.com/willaaaah https://www.instagram.com/willaaaahh/ Paul Blackthorne https://twitter.com/paulblackthorne https://www.facebook.com/OfficialPaulBlackthorne Echo Kellum https://twitter.com/echok https://www.facebook.com/EchoKellumActor/ https://instagram.com/echokells/ Audrey Marie Anderson https://twitter.com/aud_anderson https://www.instagram.com/Audrey_MarieAnderson Chenier Hundal https://twitter.com/ChenierHundal http://www.chenierhundal.com/ Charlotte Ross https://twitter.com/charlotteross Tom Amandes https://twitter.com/tom_amandes Adrian Holmes https://twitter.com/adrianholmes Madison McLaughlin https://twitter.com/MadisonMcLaugh Rick Gonzalez https://twitter.com/officialrickg Joe Dinicol https://twitter.com/joedinicol https://www.instagram.com/joedinicolofficial/ Josh Segarra [no twitter account] https://www.instagram.com/mrjoshuita Carly Pope https://twitter.com/pope_onarope Juliana Harkavy https://twitter.com/JulianaHarkavy https://www.instagram.com/julianaharkavy http://www.julianaharkavy.com/ Lexa Doig https://twitter.com/LexaDoig David Nykl https://twitter.com/dnykl Dolph Lundgren https://twitter.com/dolph_lundgren David Meunier https://twitter.com/david_meunier Kacey Rohl https://twitter.com/KaceyKadoodles Jack Moore [no twitter account] https://www.instagram.com/jackmoore003/ John Barrowman https://twitter.com/JohnBarrowman https://www.facebook.com/JohnBarrowmanMBE/ http://www.barrowmanbooks.com/ Katie Cassidy https://twitter.com/MzKatieCassidy https://www.facebook.com/OfficialKatieCassidy/ https://instagram.com/katiecassidy Colton Haynes https://twitter.com/coltonlhaynes https://www.instagram.com/coltonlhaynes https://www.coltonhaynes.com/ Katrina Law https://twitter.com/katrinalaw https://instagram.com/katrinalaw Official DC on the CW https://www.facebook.com/DConTheCW Official CW Network https://twitter.com/TheCW Official CW Publicity team https://twitter.com/thecw_pr Suzanne Gomez (CW VP, Primetime Publicity, for Arrow, Flash and Supergirl) https://twitter.com/chico6 Warner Bros. TV https://twitter.com/warnerbrostv Ben Brown (WBTV Publicist for Arrow, Flash, Supergirl and LoT) https://twitter.com/BenBrownTV Geoff Johns https://twitter.com/geoffjohns DC Comics https://twitter.com/DCComics David Rapaport (Casting Director for Arrow, Flash, Supergirl and LoT) https://twitter.com/rapaportcasting T3 Athletics (Thomas Taylor) https://twitter.com/t3athletics https://www.facebook.com/t3athletics https://www.instagram.com/t3athletics

You're welcome! I think the "uh" was from MG, not GB. Also, I forgot to close-quote the GB quote, so it should read: "Um, you know... last year, when, you know, Greg said, 'I really want, uh, one of the new recruits to be a New Black Canary,' um, we went back to the writers' room, um, and said, 'okay, but how - you know, how do we make that character or that Canary different from the two we've already seen on the show?'..."