510 discussion starts at 1:07 mark (I'm kinda 'huh?' on Craig's love triangle comments)...
Agents of GEEK Podcast
Craig Wack & Tatiana Torres 01/26/2017 http://agentsofgeekpodcast.com/wordpress/
-- Craig thought that, although the story was "well-crafted" and "the action was nice," he didn't like the episode. Tatiana had "mixed feelings" about the episode. She couldn't love it "because Laurel was a large part of this episode, whether she's hashtag our Laurel or regular - I don't give a shit - too much Laurel." But Tatiana didn't necessarily not like it, but she felt like "there was something missing". Still, she didn't think it was the worst episode of Arrow.
-- Craig said that he didn't think it was the worst episode, but "75% of it is because it's a Laurel episode... and so much of it is concentrated on that 11th hour element that they did with her." Craig then noted that "we got 4.89 seasons worth of, like, Laurel disliking Ollie or, you know, Ollie's various alter egos and doing things, like, out of spite to Ollie."
-- Tatiana: "I don't understand why Laurel is supposed to be this great figure that we have remorse for or are sad for all the time. She was the worst! She was mean. She never listened to you. She used to take pot shots at you when you were going through shit because, like, Tommy died and somehow that was all your fault, even though clearly his father killed him and they were all awful before Ollie came back. Like, I don't - that is the one thing that I will never understand. Laurel was not a good person."
-- Craig: "Right. And the writers, from a character point of view, could never really knew what to do with her... First she started out as a defense attorney and that lasted all of the pilot. Then suddenly it's like, oh well, she's a - she's a prosecutor now. And then, you know, that really didn't go anywhere. So they, you know - okay, Tommy died so we're going to make her an addict. That'll maybe give her some depth... And they never really let Laurel have a win, you know, an out-and-out win.... Even when she became a hero, the running joke was... the bad guys always got the drop on her and then whoever happened to be driving the black van, you know, came in, you know, from off-screen to hit said person who had Laurel dead to rights with their shotgun, rifle, axe, whatever-the-hell it was. And the scene that totally sums up Laurel's experience on Arrow - and it was, I think, in season 3... in fact, it was the boxing glove arrow episode - she actually has a scene where she's driving a car, she's got Wild Cat next to her, and like bad guy du jour is in the back or something, and... for some reason bad guy gets in the front of the car. And she... spins the wheel and does this awesome 360 maneuver that throws the guy off the car. Then they cut away to him landing on the ground or Ollie jumping on him to beat on him or whatever. And then when they come back, you know, Laurel is so overcome by going in a tight circle, she passes out and runs into the only car that is on this road... And it's like 'what?' And she goes to the hospital and she goes to the bed that she would eventually die in, but it's just - it's just like they had this moment where she coulda done bad - something badass, she coulda like parked the car, but it's like nope, nope, she had to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory and crash into a car."
-- Craig: "So this is what has shaded my watching of this episode. And even though it isn't actual Laurel, the whole thing - Ollie is holding onto the alien dream that he had where everything is great." Tatiana interjected that she had to give Oliver some credit because his life is "sucky right now" so he's grasping straws.
-- Craig said that Oliver's "fighting so hard for the affections of a dead woman," but when Oliver broke up with Felicity, he was like, "oh okay, but are you still going to make coffee for me though?" Tatiana disagreed and said, "No, he was sad!" She mentioned the fake wedding last season. She thought that Oliver "has steeled himself off" when it comes to Felicity because "he already knows how much it has already hurt both of them." Craig felt like Oliver has just given up on that relationship with Felicity. Tatiana noted that Oliver seemed still to have feelings for Felicity at the beginning of the season, but she was dating the "random dude" at the time, so Oliver started flirting with the "lying reporter." Tatiana also noted that the reporter wasn't even in this episode at all, even though she was in that trailer: "You know, 'who you love,' and I was like, 'what the f**k?!'"
-- Craig pointed out that this was just like when Oliver went to get comfort from Lying Reporter right after he had killed Felicity's boyfriend and now, when her boyfriend's body was still warm, Oliver was going up to Black Siren and going, "Hey baby, what's up?" Tatiana disagreed and said it was more like Oliver seeing a chance at redemption.
-- Tatiana then wanted to focus on "how badass Felicity was." Craig noted that Felicity did break down a little in this episode, but Tatiana reminded him that her boyfriend had just died. Craig did like the "Hey, pumpkin" line and punch. Craig said that "Oliver was kinda mopey and lovesick and trying to figure out what he had from Black Siren," but Felicity "had her eyes on the prize and was like, 'yeah, I'm not believing a thing this chick says,'" so Felicity was focused on finding Prometheus because "after all, that's what we're here for." Tatiana liked that, when Oliver called out Felicity for going against his orders, she was like, "f**k this" and stood up for herself, and she took all these steps herself because it was the right thing to do. Tatiana: "There was no wishy-washiness to her, for the most part this week, and I really like that." Craig: "No, there was no indecision at all."
-- Tatiana thought that near the end of the episode, there was maybe "baby steps" toward making us think that "Olicity might happen again down the line, but... not any time soon." Tatiana mentioned a tweeter who said that, if Olicity happens again, "it must be with this Felicity." Tatiana said to remember when Olicity was together, Felicity became someone who was only "an agent of the relationship." Craig agreed: "She became as weepy as Barry." Tatiana agreed and said that, if they ever go back to Olicity, Felicity needs to be this badass Felicity and also Oliver can't go back to being dark, brooding, lying Oliver. Craig agreed and said Oliver can't go back to keeping secrets from Felicity. Tatiana said that they must both be adults, which "is not popular in the Berlanti-verse."
-- Craig was concerned that, since Oliver is keeping Black Siren "handy" at ARGUS prison, if there is a S6 or even farther down the road this season, if "this substitute Canary they're trying to find in Hub City next episode doesn't work out," there's that "Black Siren redemption story they're holding on in their back pocket." Tatiana: "Gosh, I hope not." Tatiana said that there's no redemption on Arrow - Malcolm wasn't redeemed, Diggle's brother wasn't redeemed - "When you're bad, you're f**kin' bad." Craig said that if it just keeps Oliver a little optimistic (like Felicity said), then he's okay with that, but if they keep going with the part where "Oliver keeps dreaming" of Laurel because they need reasons to keep bringing KC back on the show, then he's "not a huge fan of that idea" and he's "not a huge fan of the Black Siren redemption story" because she "has a completely different life experience... so any hope that she's even remotely close" to the Earth-1 Laurel Lance "is just infinitesimally possible."
-- Tatiana thought that Curtis was "a worse superhero than Laurel." Craig liked that Curtis was going to be a "tech hero rather than a beat-em-up hero." Tatiana noted that when Laurel lost, "she would just get mad and pretend she didn't lose," but when Curtis loses, he's like, "I'm the worst, I'm going to go cry for an hour." Both Tatiana and Craig liked the bonding between Curtis and Wild Dog.
-- What bothered Craig the most in this episode was the "Oliver-Felicity-Black Siren love triangle" and creating an 11th hour "relationship that wasn't there." He also noted that the only times we saw Laurel "carrying a torch" for Oliver were in flashbacks. Tatiana also was bothered by the ret-conning of Laurel and said that if anyone disagrees, they should go back and watch the last four seasons: "She's not nice and she's frequently outright mean and evil to Oliver, even when they're on the same f**king team. It's not until the last few episodes that she's like, 'oh, I'm going to work with Oliver, yeah!'"
-- Craig noted that "it's not like we never spent any private time with Laurel, we did, but it was always to reinforce the fact that she is this - you know, grab bag of character flaws... oh, she's hanging out alone in her apartment... oh, she's taking a handful of pill and chasing them with wine... that's what we found out about Laurel in her private time. Even though she had a big spat with Oliver, she's still, like, holding on to her little precious picture that she's allegedly carrying with her." Tatiana: "That's getting old in the show, by the way. We get it. He had the photo. I doubt it went with him from the island, everywhere, in every flashback. Stop it."
-- Regarding the ending scene with Tina, Craig: "I'm not exactly sold on, you know, suddenly there's this person with the exact same powers as Canary hanging out in Hub City... that we have never seen or heard before" Tatiana: "That was weird... But these seemed more like metahuman, like natural powers."
Arrow Review: Ollie Shows a Newfound Sentimental Side
BY CRAIG WACK · JANUARY 26, 2017 http://oohlo.com/2017/01/26/arrow-review-ollie-shows-a-newfound-sentimental-side/
One of you (I'm sorry, I forget who) really pays close attention to the Arrowverse sets, so this interview with Tyler Harron, Supergirl/Flash production designer, is for you... How Set Design Shapes CW's Supergirl Kayti Burt Jan. 27, 2017 http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/supergirl/261802/how-set-design-shapes-cws-supergirl
